Big Timmy Style: Xenagos, God of Elementary Mathematics

[TheAmericanSpirit]

I'm just kinda lurking on this thread but Jesus, @xardas. Pokken's right, you should chill. I can respect no sugarcoating, but IMO you are overestimating the value of your opinion to a degree of parody.

Either way, kindly stay out of any decklist threads of mine if this is how you offer criticism. Proper feedback doesn't require personal attacks.

[xardas]

How is calling Nyxborn Ancient or equally bad cards for xenagos as beyond garbage a personal attack? Are you yourself that emotionally attached to any particular card choise in your decks? :D Now that would be parody, at least I hope so, because that would be rather sad. :

Any pleading btw is a waste of time. If you would stumble upon a topic of yours that would suggest equally bad choises it would result in an equal reponse. Again, I only use harsh words for equally bad suggestions. This is not for YOU, but to make it CRYSTAL clear for lesser experienced readers. This also isnt overestimating my opinion. I have a opinion on Harmonize and laid out a reasoned argument. Nyxborn Ancient being a noob trap isnt an opinion, it is a fact everyone who ever played xenagos would know..

Here are 2 objectives:
a) Helping Pokken achieve his goal for the deck, which we have some productive exchanges imho now that we are clear about what the deck aims for. Very diffrent language used.
b) Being clear about "noob traps". This is not to the benefit of protecting the feelings of people who, for whatever questionable reason, have succh a personal attachement to a cardchoise. The fact you even suggest this is a personal attack speaks more volume about you then ,me.

So kindly don't give a f uck, but be at ease I stick to things I actually know and we wont cross path if you don't open a topic on a commander I have years (here over a decade) worth of experience.

[pokken]

How is calling Nyxborn Ancient or equally bad cards for xenagos as beyond garbage a personal attack? Are you yourself that emotionally attached to any particular card choise in your decks? :D Now that would be parody, at least I hope so, because that would be rather sad. :

Any pleading btw is a waste of time. If you would stumble upon a topic of yours that would suggest equally bad choises it would result in an equal reponse. Again, I only use harsh words for equally bad suggestions. This is not for YOU, but to make it CRYSTAL clear for lesser experienced readers. This also isnt overestimating my opinion. I have a opinion on Harmonize and laid out a reasoned argument. Nyxborn Ancient being a noob trap isnt an opinion, it is a fact everyone who ever played xenagos would know..

Here are 2 objectives:
a) Helping Pokken achieve his goal for the deck, which we have some productive exchanges imho now that we are clear about what the deck aims for. Very diffrent language used.
b) Being clear about "noob traps". This is not to the benefit of protecting the feelings of people who, for whatever questionable reason, have succh a personal attachement to a cardchoise. The fact you even suggest this is a personal attack speaks more volume about you then ,me.

So kindly don't give a f uck, but be at ease I stick to things I actually know and we wont cross path if you don't open a topic on a commander I have years (here over a decade) worth of experience.

Like I said if you're gonna double down on being aggressive you can see yourself out. I really don't need help building decks, been at it a while. I can get ideas from people who can have a relaxed conversation without aggressive talk.

You're falling into the common trap of "I'm just arguing against ideas, so it's not an ad hominem." If you're harsh enough about an idea it becomes personal quickly. "This idea is so dumb I think you have lost touch with reality" is personal.

If your response isn't "I'm sorry, I'll settle down" we are done here.

[xardas]

Not sure what your problem is. I stand by my comments on some of the worst choises, would be rather pathetic to walk that back just to appease anyone. Like I said those comments were NOT to your benefit. Not sure why that concept is to hard to grasp or why making obvious noob traps clear is

To your benefit are lots of other of my comments that are not aggressive. I mean I have a strong opinion on Harmonize, but if you took the talk about Harmonize from http://nxs.wf/np997335 this post (which you might not even have seen because of next page turn) personal or think that is aggressive, then year we might be done. For the record I am totaly fine if you still like Harmonize, disagreeing here certainly is something I have no problem accepting, but again that all has nothing to do with the very bad suggetions. I never said you are dumb, I said this particular suggetion is very dumb. We all do dumb things.

So take the advice or leave it, wont stop me from calling anyone out if they suggest something ridicilous bad and wont stop me from given a detailed explanation why a non 100% giga obvious choise should be diffrent. So yeah it is up to you. We can work and I help you or you get hung up on a few choises being called out rightfully so and ignore me, but it really wont affect what and if I am gonna post.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

@pokken I'd write this clown off. They're suffering from a particularly vile lack of self-awareness. My diagnosis: it's terminal.

@xardas Get over yourself.

[materpillar]

Not sure what your problem is. I stand by my comments on some of the worst choises, would be rather pathetic to walk that back just to appease anyone. Like I said those comments were NOT to your benefit. Not sure why that concept is to hard to grasp or why making obvious noob traps clear is

To your benefit are lots of other of my comments that are not aggressive. I mean I have a strong opinion on Harmonize, but if you took the talk about Harmonize from http://nxs.wf/np997335 this post (which you might not even have seen because of next page turn) personal or think that is aggressive, then year we might be done. For the record I am totaly fine if you still like Harmonize, disagreeing here certainly is something I have no problem accepting, but again that all has nothing to do with the very bad suggetions. I never said you are dumb, I said this particular suggetion is very dumb. We all do dumb things.

So take the advice or leave it, wont stop me from calling anyone out if they suggest something ridicilous bad and wont stop me from given a detailed explanation why a non 100% giga obvious choise should be diffrent. So yeah it is up to you. We can work and I help you or you get hung up on a few choises being called out rightfully so and ignore me, but it really wont affect what and if I am gonna post.

A lot of people build decks for different reasons with different goals. Pokken has clearly explained why he isn't running some of your "optimal" card choices. I find none of his reasons to be "dumb". I run a lot of cards in a lot of decks specifically because I know those cards are terrible and I find the challenge of beating people with them to be rewarding. I've made people scoop to a Rishadan Pawnshop trigger before and I'd be very offended if you told me that putting that card in my deck was "doing a dumb thing"

Pokken has explicitly stated he's aiming for a powerlevel that's less than optimal. Calling his choice to not run "giga obvious" cards wrong is just flat out wrong. He's aiming for a specific powerlevel for better games in his meta. If that requires him to slot in Craw Wurm, telling him not to play Craw Wurm would be the bad take.

I for one think that if some people come in here and ctrl-c, ctrl-v his decklist and get obliterated in a cEDH tournament because they didn't read any of the thread where he talked about his deck choices then that is 100% all on them. Safe guarding hypothetical netdeckers who are too lazy to read or think for themselves isn't a good use of anyone's time on this website.

[pokken]

would be rather pathetic to walk that back just to appease anyone.

You can spend some time on my ignore list but in the spirit of hopefully helping other people --

It isn't pathetic to realize you've offended someone and apologize.

I walk things back all the time and I'm proud to do it. Not as proud as I would be to express things in a kind way in the first place though so I try for that.


--

I'll add for posterity I don't get my feelings hurt that easily and I'm not crying into my soup over someone saying ouchies on the internet. I do place a lot of value on fostering a positive community here. I take it very seriously that I want people to feel good about interacting with me and in my spaces.

Fundamentally the idea that someone might hold the wrong opinion about a magic card's power level because of something I said is way less important to me than whether I made them feel small or dumb or sad or angry or even irritated.

[xardas]

@pokken I'd write this clown off. They're suffering from a particularly vile lack of self-awareness. My diagnosis: it's terminal.

@xardas Get over yourself.

You might take your own advice. You are rather amusingly emotional and grandstanding yourself.

@materpillar : Honestly Craw Wurm would improve most decks over a Nxyborn Ancient,,. card just gets itself or yourself killed instantly. If you go to low in powerlevel enviroment then the card turns from liability to oppressive and just as unprodutive for a deck helmed by xenagos. There are decks and strategies where the cards fits, but xenagos certainly it isnt.

Second my first comment he even in posts described his playgroup as competetive. We NOW have a more detailed stance on what he did want to achieve, So it is rather disingenous on the whole "there are no really bad choises if he wants low power" and then come with Craw Wurm in a decklist where we are just now cutting Godo+ Cleaver and running Jeskas Will and Dockside. He clearly stated by now his aim and certainly isnt playing vs 2011 precons xD

There is no powerlevel where Nxyborn Ancient isnt one of the absolut worst 7 drops zu can play.
Nyxbloom Ancient is
a) a mediocre beater
b) You really does only anything when you untap with him. He doesnt generate any or only some mana the turn you have to tap out for him
c) He kinda can even fail at the one thing he should be good at. A one time "tripple" mana effect can simply not be enough, certainly won't go infinite on higher power with Aggravated Assault and in general isnt unlikely to fail at the task you even taking the risk on of becmong the target of the table
d) No protection, even extra vulnerable as an enchantment in a deck, where the OP has LITERALLY said trying to make Nature's Claim/Aura shards a bad card vs him.

The card fails at everything at an average powerlevel even, my first comment was when OP previously described his playgroup as competetive and even for the now clarified goals it is kinda even worse then that, because it is THE removal magnet for enchantment stuff.

So the whole

I for one think that if some people come in here and ctrl-c, ctrl-v his decklist and get obliterated in a cEDH tournament because they didn't read any of the thread where he talked about his deck choices then that is 100% all on them. Safe guarding hypothetical netdeckers who are too lazy to read or think for themselves isn't a good use of anyone's time on this website.

is pretty missguided discription. For Nxyborn Ancient to be god awful in a deck list this you certainly don't need cedh opponents (some of the better precons will do that for your already) and that is literally the pojnt, Until I said something there was zero reponse on some of his wilder comments. The is the literally reason why I was harsh on that point in particular.

Op was considering cutting Klauth, not Nyxborn after some few game impressions, which is rather silly and honestly has nothing to do powerlevel of the group. Not like Nxyborn Ancient has particular healthy play pattern. I play it in a high powered Go-Shintai honden deck were the commander can reanimate it and it gets naturally in grave by some of the loot effects/Handsize, nautally protects enchantments and again is meant to be powerful (deck has replenish, Serras sanctum, humility (yeah i know the antisynergie on those 2)), not like I hate the card, but for xenagos it is just a extrem bad choise regardless.


So yeah, Nxyborn Ancient is here, if that is taken as a personal attack and all the other suggestions therefore ignored, that is fine by me, but I disagree--> it is worth protecting newer players and being disingenious about that ala "netdecker playing vs cedh, their fault" is pretty cheap.
You certainly cannot fault me for not trying to work towards his goals now that those are clearly defined that are not guided by a pure power scale. I mean ffs I recommend to think if he might want to cut sol ring for Into the North to embrace his goal of blanking certain type of removal.

So rather simply. If OP posts on the question if his playgroup is more competetive then of the anohter user with
"Yeah more then most " it should not come as a surprise that, in fact, the Nxyborn Ancient is . If we later clarrify the powerlevel is lower but we still aim for a turn 7 deck with the quote "I want Nature's Claim and Abrade to be dead. " does not make Nxyborn Ancient a better choise. THe opposite, it is uniquely one of THE factual worst possible choises in the entire game, because there arent that many possible Enchantment creatures in GR to begin with.

I thought we were beyond that and onto finer details, heck my post discussing options on Sol-Ring, carddraw etc before our AmericanSpirit had the urge to feel personaly attacked on behalf of other people, but then again I said already I don't walk my comments on stuff like Nxyborn Ancient back and the given suggetions dont vanish.

Edit after refreshing the site:

You can spend some time on my ignore list but in the spirit of hopefully helping other people --

It isn't pathetic to realize you've offended someone and apologize.

I walk things back all the time and I'm proud to do it. Not as proud as I would be to express things in a kind way in the first place though so I try for that.

Feel free to do so.,
Being offended does not magically make you right. If someone calls it a dumb choise to run Nyxborn Ancient in a deck where YOU want to avoid aura shards offends you, that is YOUR fault, not anyone else. THe whole "I am offended therefore I am right" thing doesnt work outside of america.

I am rather amused how we moved on before and were talking about other choises and now you circled back to be offended because I wont take back Nxyborn ancient was a REALLY dumb choise?

Well no further use, again wont stop me from calling things out if it will be missleading for newer players. Cya

[materpillar]

So yeah, Nxyborn Ancient is here, if that is taken as a personal attack and all the other suggestions therefore ignored, that is fine by me, but I disagree--> it is worth protecting newer players and being disingenious about that ala "netdecker playing vs cedh, their fault" is pretty cheap.
You certainly cannot fault me for not trying to work towards his goals now that those are clearly defined that are not guided by a pure power scale. I mean ffs I recommend to think if he might want to cut sol ring for Into the North to embrace his goal of blanking certain type of removal.

I read all your response. I've only skimmed Pokken's decklist and I haven't helmed Xenagos so we're rapidly approaching an area of nuance that I don't feel I have the expertise to weigh in on in regards to Nyxbloom Ancient.

Being offended does not magically make you right. If someone calls it a dumb choise to run Nyxborn Ancient in a deck where YOU want to avoid aura shards offends you, that is YOUR fault, not anyone else. THe whole "I am offended therefore I am right" thing doesnt work outside of america.

Thinking you're right and someone else is wrong doesn't give you the right to be offensive either. You have three people in this thread telling you that you're being offensive and that the offense given that you're giving has nothing to do with the validity of your opinions regarding cardboard.

For example, I literally live very close to Pokken in America. You've just implied with your "I am offended therefore I am right" statement that this is a philosophy that all Americans share. As an American, you've implied that I'm an entitled brat who always thinks I'm correct when offended. I actually tend to vaguely agree with your Nyxbloom Ancient card analysis and I simultaneously believe you're acting like a spoiled child who hasn't yet realized that their opinion isn't actually God's divine gift to every other being on the internet.

[pokken]

What I can say about nyxbloom is what I've said basically. It you either untap with it or get to connect with old gnawbone with it, you win the game. It's not a good card but it does what it says on the tin which is win if someone can't remove it. My general experience with xenagos is that whatever nonsense I am playing sometimes someone doesn't have an answer right now.

I don't know that I ever said the card was good so much as that it had weird undesirable play patterns. Hopefully I didn't say it was good. I think I said it was winmore and I was thinking of cutting it.

While simultaneously accidentally daring to say my meta might be slightly more competitive than a random poster.

I dunno. I hope I didn't mislead anyone :D

[xardas]

Thinking you're right and someone else is wrong doesn't give you the right to be offensive either. You have three people in this thread telling you that you're being offensive and that the offense given that you're giving has nothing to do with the validity of your opinions regarding cardboard.

For example, I literally live very close to Pokken in America. You've just implied with your "I am offended therefore I am right" statement that this is a philosophy that all Americans share. As an American, you've implied that I'm an entitled brat who always thinks I'm correct when offended. I actually tend to vaguely agree with your Nyxbloom Ancient card analysis and I simultaneously believe you're acting like a spoiled child who hasn't yet realized that their opinion isn't actually God's divine gift to every other being on the internet.

a) Yet I did clearly address Pokken, not you. You feel talked to when i directly quuto someone else because you are regionally near? What?! Jesus christ now you read implied things to get roundabout offended in the second half?! I have said, not implied, that this stance pokken "used" there is "too american" aka expression of your worst cultural behaviour development. By the way where exactly did I wrote you had to be a brat to use this laughable stance? If anything America has lately proven to us there is no age limit or requirement to become a laughing stock in front of the world.
If anything thats going to offtopic now but maybe dont magically read things into something that were 100% never said.

b) Well guess NOW the shoe fits more. Stop this %$#%$#% of "thinking your right" nonsense. There are things people can opinions on and there are things so blantly false there is no room for opinion. That is the entre point and why being very blunt to lieave no room to be mistaken.

c) Aint it funny throwing around some god complex accucastions while turning a total blind eye on your own hypocrisy. Just to give you a reality check from your post. Despite admitting you have zero experience on the factual question at hand you have now displayed second hand "offense" while literally not being addressed in that statement of stereotype, all based on close geographical location. That is precisely why nobody should even take that serious and just look at face value. If you are DOING a extremly dumb choise, calling that choise just that--> dumb is precisely what is required. People these thays will find a way to be offended on way or another if that is what their mindset is set on. If I made an equally bad mistake in deckbuilding and got notified my reaction certainly would not be : "well pls aay that nicer or be sorry" but "%$#% yeah I am an idiot, arent I?!". Dunno if that fits your headcanon of godcomplex, but what does it matter? You read what you want to read in it anyways.


Well I had my fun but since you said yourself you aren't here in this topic for the commander/deck, there isnt much to be gained from talking to you further. Gonna take you out of my picture I guess. That is goodbye then.

[pokken]

Can confirm Anzrag, the Quake-Mole is great at least. I popped him off a Mosswort Bridge on turn 5 or 6 and won off activating his trigger the next turn even though he died (since he untapped my 12/12 Bloodthirster who had been tapped by a Koma, Cosmos Serpent who ran out of sneks).

My read on that game is that a curve of Anzrag into activating him would have just won that game most likely, so he's earned his spot I think.