Bruna, the Fading Light - Mono-W Moat Control

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

It's pretty much an immediate I-win with Blade of Selves and some sort of lifegain engine. It's fine, just not something I enjoy.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
It's pretty much an immediate I-win with Blade of Selves and some sort of lifegain engine. It's fine, just not something I enjoy.
Is anyone here playing Blade of Selves? Also it only gains life when you hit an opponent but assuming three opponents and one of them does not block you would gain 12 life. That still seems like room for counterplay not to mention the fact that it doesn't actually lifelink so attacking into it after it being played doesn't buffer your life total.

I agree that in a lot of cases alternative wincons aren't super fun to face down. I would probably put this as one of the more interactive ones out there. It also doesn't win the game, it removes one player and again, they need to not have a superior flying creature that would win in combat (or for you to have a means to regen / give indestructible). I hate getting thassa's Oracled out of a game but I think this is quite a bit less grievous.

I really think this is probably less extreme than killing someone with Overrun. It is projected the turn before, you need life, they need to not have any creature interaction or any way to commit a bigger blocker than your attacker.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
It's pretty much an immediate I-win with Blade of Selves and some sort of lifegain engine. It's fine, just not something I enjoy.
Is anyone here playing Blade of Selves? Also it only gains life when you hit an opponent but assuming three opponents and one of them does not block you would gain 12 life. That still seems like room for counterplay not to mention the fact that it doesn't actually lifelink so attacking into it after it being played doesn't buffer your life total.

I agree that in a lot of cases alternative wincons aren't super fun to face down. I would probably put this as one of the more interactive ones out there. It also doesn't win the game, it removes one player and again, they need to not have a superior flying creature that would win in combat (or for you to have a means to regen / give indestructible). I hate getting thassa's Oracled out of a game but I think this is quite a bit less grievous.

I really think this is probably less extreme than killing someone with Overrun. It is projected the turn before, you need life, they need to not have any creature interaction or any way to commit a bigger blocker than your attacker.
I think being on the opposite end of the spectrum helps it be a bit less grievous, in terms of being an Etrata, the Silencer style win con rather than a Thassa's Oracle one. Putting yourself over the finish line sticks in the craw a bit more than knocking someone else out of the race, and I think it's because the best case after someone 'wins the game' being fighting for second place really just doesn't feel great.

Blade of Selves - no, we're not running it here, and to be honest I can't see any really obvious reason to. Sure there's things like getting a whole mess of Solemn Simulacrum/Sun Titan triggers, or cracking a stacking myriad against cracking a Wayfarer's Bauble with Emeria Shepherd, but it's probably not required really. It could be fun, but it's certainly not something we desperately need to run.

It's definitely not an 'I win immediately upon resolution' card, I just don't really see a spot in my list for it personally. There's a really good case for it being involved, I just....don't wanna, if that makes sense? Aside from that I don't necessarily have the life gain support to really make it shine, so I'm ok leaving it out, barring a catastrophically radical change of tack with new releases etc.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 years ago
I think being on the opposite end of the spectrum helps it be a bit less grievous, in terms of being an Etrata, the Silencer style win con rather than a Thassa's Oracle one. Putting yourself over the finish line sticks in the craw a bit more than knocking someone else out of the race, and I think it's because the best case after someone 'wins the game' being fighting for second place really just doesn't feel great.

Blade of Selves - no, we're not running it here, and to be honest I can't see any really obvious reason to. Sure there's things like getting a whole mess of Solemn Simulacrum/Sun Titan triggers, or cracking a stacking myriad against cracking a Wayfarer's Bauble with Emeria Shepherd, but it's probably not required really. It could be fun, but it's certainly not something we desperately need to run.

It's definitely not an 'I win immediately upon resolution' card, I just don't really see a spot in my list for it personally. There's a really good case for it being involved, I just....don't wanna, if that makes sense? Aside from that I don't necessarily have the life gain support to really make it shine, so I'm ok leaving it out, barring a catastrophically radical change of tack with new releases etc.
I think its fine to pass on it, I am far from sold on it but I think it could possibly work. Its yet another tool that "could" give Bruna a lifegain angle that could be worth going into assuming we get a few more tools for it in the future. If it ends up being expensive (which I don't expect) then I will probably pass on it unless given more reason but if it becomes reasonable after a month or so post release I will try to pick it up and see how it plays.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I think its fine to pass on it, I am far from sold on it but I think it could possibly work. Its yet another tool that "could" give Bruna a lifegain angle that could be worth going into assuming we get a few more tools for it in the future. If it ends up being expensive (which I don't expect) then I will probably pass on it unless given more reason but if it becomes reasonable after a month or so post release I will try to pick it up and see how it plays.
Seems reasonable. Ultimately I'm probably making things harder for myself by not exploring the avenue, but I'm not too fazed, I sort of like the grind of control/combat, it's just what my decks tend to do.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Some random thoughts:

Sweepers - with everyone having had positive feedback on monarch, what are our thoughts on being a little heavier on sweepers? I think I am up like 3 sweepers from where I was before monarch but the fact that you can blow up all nonland permenants and still have monarch and likely not give it up that turn has been kind of big for me. In the past I was usually reliant on artifacts / equipment for my draw so with the monarch stuff I have found that my ability to sweep and be ok feels better than it used to.

Lower Curve - As we add more draw into our list, I think its also valid to question our curve and bring it down where we can. I often will push for more impact higher cmc cards when my draw is worse and as it gets better push for lower curve. Looking at my list right now, I have 7 cards that cost 6+. If I were to look at my list from a year ago I had 13 six or more drops in my list. Its interesting how much my list changed in the last year but the increase in draw has really pushed me to drop my curve down.

List from last year - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the ... at-control

Current list - viewtopic.php?f=35&t=822

I got my hands on Lotus Vale and Scorched Ruins. I am working on what exact changes I am going to implement to put them in for testing but given I am still not meeting to play I have time to figure out how to get them in. Its sort of on my "next changes" to try out.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Sweepers - with everyone having had positive feedback on monarch, what are our thoughts on being a little heavier on sweepers?
I currently run Magus of the Disk, Austere Command, Rout, Cleansing Nova and Hour of Revelation.

I sometimes believe I should run one more, but I would like it to be as flexible as possible, and I'm not sure such a card exists.

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Post by weltkrieg » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Sweepers - with everyone having had positive feedback on monarch, what are our thoughts on being a little heavier on sweepers?
I currently run Magus of the Disk, Austere Command, Rout, Cleansing Nova and Hour of Revelation.

I sometimes believe I should run one more, but I would like it to be as flexible as possible, and I'm not sure such a card exists.
With that lineup, then I would think Akroma's Vengeance or Planar Cleansing are reasonable solutions if you want sorcery wraths. Otherwise, if you're running legendary tutor Thalia's Lancers , you could tutor up Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Ugin, the Spirit Dragon , or Urza's Ruinous Blast .

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
I currently run Magus of the Disk, Austere Command, Rout, Cleansing Nova and Hour of Revelation.

I sometimes believe I should run one more, but I would like it to be as flexible as possible, and I'm not sure such a card exists.
My own setup is currently: Magus of the Balance, Magus of the Disk, Cleansing Nova, Rout, Tragic Arrogance, Austere Command, and Hour of Revelation

I guess our sweepers are fairly similar. I have personally been a big fan of Tragic Arrogance for quite some time but there are times where it does suck when there is only one target for an opponent. I would say as a whole its been very positive for me but it isn't without flaws.

Have you gotten any testing in with Magus of the Disk? I am just curious to hear some other feedback other than my own.
weltkrieg wrote:
3 years ago
With that lineup, then I would think Akroma's Vengeance or Planar Cleansing are reasonable solutions if you want sorcery wraths. Otherwise, if you're running legendary tutor Thalia's Lancers , you could tutor up Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Ugin, the Spirit Dragon , or Urza's Ruinous Blast .
Akroma's Vengeance / Planar Cleansing - I ran Akroma's for a while but ended up cutting it when I got my hands on Cleansing Nova. I think I prefer Akroma's ever so slightly over cleansing but its really close. Killing all walkers is usually not something I really need a sweeper for but ever so often it is useful. In the same sense I almost never cycle Akroma's but its there. The small difference in a WW vs WWW casting cost is also small but its something in favor of Akroma's. Akroma's Vengeance is probably where I would go if I bring my count up more.

Elspeth, Sun's Champion - I don't really value token production here and killing four plus power creatures can be really hit or miss. I like her a lot more when I care about tokens and or when more of my deck doesn't die to the sweeper she offers.

Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - When I had a higher curve with more top end angels I used to run him. As I lowered my curve down he became more of a liability in the exile removal he offers. He is still decent against token tactics but there are a lot of things I could run for that.

Urza's Ruinous Blast - I have always wanted to use this sweeper somewhere. I guess my issue is I really don't want to exile my own creatures with this deck and I really don't have much for sac outlets. I do like how it hits most artifacts / enchantments but not killing commanders and exiling my own creatures has always held me back from it here. I actually sort of want to kill Bruna with sweepers in this list because she has good recast value.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

I personally don't feel like I need more sweepers, but my list runs quite a few (not sure by comparison whether the number is greater or lesser than you guys, but feel free to compare:
Cleansing Nova
Rout
Tragic Arrogance
Akroma's Vengeance
Austere Command
Sunblast Angel

It feels like enough, but I guess if the right card came along I could see adding more. Add to that the pseudo-removal of Magus of the Tabernacle and Eye of Singularity it feels ok. I've also picked up Magus of the Balance to add in shortly, so I'm feeling fairly well covered.

The other option I've considered in the past is Angel of the Dire Hour. In a way it kind of covers similar ground that Teferi's Protection and Hallowed Moonlight cover in my list, but obviously being able to spam it seems nice. It also protects the Monarch mechanic nicely, so there's that. (edit: just looked over the card again and that 'if you cast it from your hand' clause wrecks what could otherwise be really quite nice for this deck - scratch this as an option, it's just too hard)
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Lower Curve - As we add more draw into our list, I think its also valid to question our curve and bring it down where we can. I often will push for more impact higher cmc cards when my draw is worse and as it gets better push for lower curve. Looking at my list right now, I have 7 cards that cost 6+. If I were to look at my list from a year ago I had 13 six or more drops in my list. Its interesting how much my list changed in the last year but the increase in draw has really pushed me to drop my curve down.
I've definitely dropped mine too - I think you could pair that with the incidence of more utility at the lower end of the curve. It's been really good to see more of these pieces come into the list. I think my list is still more top heavy than yours, but I've noticed the shift too, and it's been worthwhile. For me it's been more of seeing effects I want in the list, so the drop in curve is more incidental than anything, but I wouldn't say no to it coming down further if the right pieces come along.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

In addition to the above, I actually managed to get some time past the 4-month old kid to pick up my decks and make some changes:


Mystic and gift are made for the list, they should both be brilliant. Money well spent as far as I'm concerned. I actually thought I already had the bauble in here but couldn't see it in the list so I've added it back in. It's decent and easily recurrable. Paladin, I have to admit I am really going to miss. It's the easiest way to grant double strike in white, and I've won games from the back of it, but it had to go to make room. Swords is just one of those pieces that looks great on paper but doesn't really weigh up well against the swathe of wipes in the deck, and Minds' is just draw at the wrong time in the game - I need it early and I found often when I was dropping it I couldn't use it's trigger often enough to justify it staying.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

@ISBPathfinder Re:Magus of the Disk. I've had one game with it so far and it worked well. It's a dead man's switch people will force you to use or lose. I also like that you can use it in response to big plays at instant speed (also one of the reasons I like Rout so much). I actually forgot one more: Divine Reckoning, because Flashback.

@weltkrieg: I actually forgot one, mentioned above. Yeah, any of those could work. I think I might lean to Sunscour for the pitch option.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

OOOOO Ondu Inversion. If it was just 8 mana Planar Cleansing it wouldn't be very interesting but the option of that or a land..... seems reasonable. I love this concept as you can sort of consider it a land and or an effect so if we ever end up getting a few of them you could even lower your land count a little. Maybe like for each two of this type of card you could cut a land.

Magus of the Disk - yea the option to continue to play with that effect up is why I put it in. Its perfectly fine for us to keep playing with no intention to pop it but if someone overcomes us its nice to be able to have that effect to deny a lot of things. The little testing I have had so far with it forced someone to answer it twice but even that was great and it forced them to respond to me, slow down, and it punishes proactive strategies so hard.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Magus of the Disk - yea the option to continue to play with that effect up is why I put it in. Its perfectly fine for us to keep playing with no intention to pop it but if someone overcomes us its nice to be able to have that effect to deny a lot of things. The little testing I have had so far with it forced someone to answer it twice but even that was great and it forced them to respond to me, slow down, and it punishes proactive strategies so hard.
Definitely those pros with the recursion aspect seem to outweigh cons of "comes in tapped" and "could be a target of Threaten".

I'll be honest, Ondu Inversion doesn't appeal to me. 8-mana Planar Cleansing will always feel like it's late to the party or a not-even-a-plains; both the modes are bad enough that I wouldn't want to play either. 8 mana for a wrath pretty much precludes a significant rebuild on that turn, too. Some of those DFCs are okay, but I think most of them are going to be draft chaff.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Magus of the Disk - yea the option to continue to play with that effect up is why I put it in. Its perfectly fine for us to keep playing with no intention to pop it but if someone overcomes us its nice to be able to have that effect to deny a lot of things. The little testing I have had so far with it forced someone to answer it twice but even that was great and it forced them to respond to me, slow down, and it punishes proactive strategies so hard.
Definitely those pros with the recursion aspect seem to outweigh cons of "comes in tapped" and "could be a target of Threaten".

I'll be honest, Ondu Inversion doesn't appeal to me. 8-mana Planar Cleansing will always feel like it's late to the party or a not-even-a-plains; both the modes are bad enough that I wouldn't want to play either. 8 mana for a wrath pretty much precludes a significant rebuild on that turn, too. Some of those DFCs are okay, but I think most of them are going to be draft chaff.
I agree that 8 mana is a big ask. But, you could cut a land for it potentially. I guess in some sense it might be weighed sort of similarly to Secluded Steppe in that you either get a tapped land or some other effect. The cost of cycling could be similar to a slightly overcosted effect with both the pros and cons of what you draw instead being unknown vs known. Akroma's Vengeance similarly can be a sweeper or something else at an upcharge. Its sort of a weird cross between the two with the small upside of knowing what you will have in either situation instead of an unknown card from deck being what you get.

I was looking at most of these spell / lands as potentially a land slot that can also function as something else but I think you might be right. Cycling while a little different is probably our closest comparison to this effect and I haven't really been jumping at the bit to run cycling effects. Maybe just a bit of new card shine in the eyes.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I was looking at most of these spell / lands as potentially a land slot that can also function as something else but I think you might be right. Cycling while a little different is probably our closest comparison to this effect and I haven't really been jumping at the bit to run cycling effects. Maybe just a bit of new card shine in the eyes.
For evaluating a lot of these cards, I look at whether I would want to play the effect anyway, and if the card has a manageable cost for either effect. I'm generally okay with a land that comes into play tapped, but, I think an 8-mana Planar Cleansing is a real reach. I think a lot of the time, 6-mana Wraths are a reach unless they're weirdly asymmetrical.

I think of the ones I've seen so far across all colours, I would probably play Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge and Sea Gate Restoration because the effects are unique or desirable. Maybe Kazuul's Fury // Kazuul's Cliffs if I already wanted to play Fling. The option of "have a land" is really not that great an out.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Sinis wrote:
3 years ago
I think of the ones I've seen so far across all colours, I would probably play Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge and Sea Gate Restoration because the effects are unique or desirable. Maybe Kazuul's Fury // Kazuul's Cliffs if I already wanted to play Fling. The option of "have a land" is really not that great an out.
I've pretty much done the same. And Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge is pretty much the only one I'm keen to pull the trigger on at present. Sea Gate Restoration is cool too, I just don't have a list that needs it at present.

Ondu Inversion - I mean, 8 mana is steep. The versatility of having a sweep or a land is pretty much shot in the face by that CMC. Ultimately I don't think any of us really know how they're going to play out until we shuffle them up, but I think in the case of this card it's trying to have your cake and eat it too, and just not achieving a perfect balance in either category.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

As I keep lowering the curve of my list down I notice I seem to have a few more humans. Does Angel of Glory's Rise ever start making sense with this? I don't know if it does for me yet as I seem to be somewhere in the range of 10-14 humans but if you can get even two humans rez from this it seems kind of nice.

Having recently added Mangara and Magus of the Disk it makes me feel like I have a few more viable targets for this. Drannith Magistrate is also a relatively new human. I was just curious if there is some level of critical mass at which we consider moving to this angel. I think with rezing just one human its not really great but 2+ seems quite reasonable. At some point of density I feel like it would make sense I just don't know when that is offhand.

Also, exiling all zombies is not nothing. It might be a bit niche but with Field of the Dead being zombie tokens I feel like it could come up more often than just zombie tribal decks. Zombies are a fairly normal creature type and you might even just find it as a pickup creature type on some commanders.
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
As I keep lowering the curve of my list down I notice I seem to have a few more humans. Does Angel of Glory's Rise ever start making sense with this? I don't know if it does for me yet as I seem to be somewhere in the range of 10-14 humans but if you can get even two humans rez from this it seems kind of nice.
I think if you're truly human-heavy, it's probably worthwhile and is also a very decent Bruna 'mode'. My current list is pretty angel heavy, and I think I've rarely had more than a couple of humans around. If I were to go that direction, I would probably include some 'human tutors', like Ranger-Captain of Eos, Recruiter of the Guard, and possibly Ranger of Eos.

I also believe that the Zombie exile is totally worthwhile. Not just Field of the Dead tokens, but, people just casually play God Eternals, Mikaeus Unhallowed and Underrealm Lich. It wouldn't hurt to exile someone's Gray Merchant either if they were suddenly without a sac outlet.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

Yea, I am not sure if its that viable currently but as we continue to get more reasonable humans / angels I think it becomes more of an option to push one way or the other with Bruna if you want. I really would love to see some other Angel Tribal matters type of effects as it seems like space that is really lacking.

Not to steal toc's thunder but I feel like doing a set review. I will spoil mine in case toc wants to do his own without seeing mine.
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  • Angel of Destiny I think it seems reasonable as of right now without testing it. I like that it gives life gain and a must answer sort of threat. Some of my challenge with this deck can be closing out the game / killing players espeically combo and or control players so this appeals to me from the standpoint that it keeps me from dying, and threatens to lethal opponents if they don't deal with it. I want to test it at least and it looks like the price will be reasonable so I will do what I can to get in for some testing. I am not a fan of things that feel too cheezy or easy so there are a number of things I refrain from doing. I don't know where I stand on this feeling that way but I want to see it in action before I judge it on that level.
  • Archon of Emeria - Its off tribe and my draw has been feeling really good of late. I think this sort of hate card can be great in the right deck but those decks tend to be ones with mana sinks rather than ones with decent draw.
  • Emeria's Call // Emeria, Shattered Skyclave - So, I am really not that interested in the front side of this card.... but the fact that it can be a land that enters untapped makes it SO hard to ignore. If I don't plan to cast it as a spell though then its just a bad land so I guess its the question of how likely I am to cast the front side of the card. Unfortunately as it stands, I feel like the front side of this card is a lot more likely to appeal towards standard and limited. I just don't know if I value making a few 4/4 angels or giving non angels indestructible. I just don't know.
  • Felidar Retreat I think this card looks great for a token deck, enchantress deck, or a lands deck. This deck just isn't any of those decks. I think this is going to be a very good commander card, it just doesn't fit here.
  • Kabira Takedown // Kabira Plateau This is actually really interesting being an instant that doesn't require combat that can kill creatures and walkers. I often want removal for things that are just like x/2s or x/3s. Having a Swords to Plowshares for an eldrazi is always good but honestly a lot of what I have wanted to remove of late tends to be commanders, combo pieces, or utility creatures.
  • Legion Angel - it doesn't have great stats and its ETB doesn't function in this format. Move along.
  • Makindi Stampede // Makindi Mesas Its funny to look back at how broken Overrun is these days by how bad new effects tend to be. That said, this maybe could be played in a go wide white deck but that isn't here.
  • Maul of the Skyclaves - I think this card can be ok in the right deck but that isn't here. We aren't voltron and we already fly. I think the efficiency of this card makes it like an aura when it comes in but it sticks around later which makes it good tempo for a voltron commander.
  • Ondu Inversion // Ondu Skyruins - Its a bit expensive for a wrath but it does have that land option. I am not really sure but it would be nice to get some testing in at some point just to confirm.
  • Sejiri Shelter // Sejiri Glacier - I just don't value either side of this card for this deck. The cost to protect is too high so we are left with an etb tapped land I also don't really want.
  • Skyclave Apparition - This removal is actually quite reasonable. It can be Sun Titan rezed and what it gives back to opponents when it does tends to be mostly irrelevant. I guess my only concern is that this feels like it would be better for a deck with more rez / flicker / ETB focus rather than this deck where we tend to be more of a dual tribal deck. I guess my hesitation for it in this deck is that its sorcery speed removal on an off tribe body.
  • Forsaken Monument - It doesn't fit this deck.
  • Lithoform Engine - I think its fine.... my thing about this sort of effect though is that for me it feels better when I am on a deck with less draw and more mana generation and mana dumps. The idea of paying 8 mana in a turn to play and copy a permanent seems like a HUGE expense for something that likely will be a big target priority for opponents.
  • Skyclave Relic - Some of my issue with artifact ramp in this deck is my expectation to blow up everything at some point. I like this card because it sets up a good amount of ramp, its hard to remove three indestructible artifacts, and I likely won't remove them myself. It also doesn't interfere with land count matters stuff which is nice.
Honestly, I don't think that much of anything is a must include from Zendikar. Several of these cards I highlighted were just things I would like to test so I can be a bit more thorough in my assessments of them.
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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Not to steal toc's thunder but I feel like doing a set review. I will spoil mine in case toc wants to do his own without seeing mine.
Honestly, for Bruna, I don't think any of the cards appeal. The booby prize of a tapland is just not good enough for me to consider any of them, even the Mythic. Especially the Mythic; are we really going to pay 7 mana for two 4/4s with flying and indestructible on a human or two? I think not. For any of the flip cards, I don't believe I want to play either side, and them being basically modal does not help (and I love modal spells).

I think there are good cards in this set... just not for Bruna.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
Honestly, I don't think that much of anything is a must include from Zendikar. Several of these cards I highlighted were just things I would like to test so I can be a bit more thorough in my assessments of them.
You know, if there were more to discuss, I'd do my own set review, but my kid is teething at 4 months and time is tight. Plus, this just isn't our set. There's a few maybes but nothing stellar. I generally like the DFC lands, but I don't think the spell sides are anything to write home about hugely, so I'm ok to leave this set where it is.

We generally seem to be on the same page here. I totally get playtesting some pieces, I just don't see anything that really wows me for Bruna.

Thanks ISB :)
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

I did get a little testing in this weekend with some early testing of Lotus Vale / Scorched Ruins. So far, I will say that I could actually maybe get behind Scorched Ruins just from the standpoint that even without any assistance its sort of like a weird Ancient Tomb in that it takes up three land worth of resource but taps for four mana. It was nice ramp for me one game and it still has the potential to be stronger than that.

In the little bit of testing I had, I have to say those effects are about as good as just scraping Emeria, the Sky Ruin out of play though lol. Its soooooo hard to hit Emeria with a full load of these sac two land effects in the deck. I actually just saced Emeria one game accepting that wasn't happening lol.

I have been running so hard on my utility lands of late though that Emeria generally doesn't happen at all or it happens very late in the games I don't just curve Sword of the Animist and ride that in.

I will keep testing though. I want to see more of them before I really make any judgement on them. More testing for the testing gods.



I had a T1 Wayfarer game as well this weekend. It went:

T1: Plains Weathered Wayfarer
T2: Flagstones of Trokair
T3: Lotus Field
T4: Thespian's Stage / copy Lotus Field
T5: Bazaar of Baghdad and start screwing with my hand throwing away lands and rez targets.

That game ended rather quickly as I had a lot of mana and draw value just out of a wayfarer chain lol.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 years ago
I had a T1 Wayfarer game as well this weekend. It went:

T1: Plains Weathered Wayfarer
T2: Flagstones of Trokair
T3: Lotus Field
T4: Thespian's Stage / copy Lotus Field
T5: Bazaar of Baghdad and start screwing with my hand throwing away lands and rez targets.

That game ended rather quickly as I had a lot of mana and draw value just out of a wayfarer chain lol.
This is living the wayfarer dream. It's a brilliant option turn one (so long as you're not first off the mark).

My general feeling around the sac land/ramp if someone has more lands than you mechanic is that it's either that or Emeria, the Sky Ruin. 7 basics is a lot to get into play in general anyway, and if you're leaning that heavily into utility that's gonna be tough to hit.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 years ago

Well, I managed to get a game in today, at least most of it.

Had a brutal start with a T1 Serra Ascendant and Sword of the Animist shortly afterwards, and I really just managed to dominate the game. I think I was a little overpowered to be honest. Nonetheless, the deck ran well, and I managed to run into Stoneforge Mystic, which played very nicely.

It did get me thinking, I actually don't have a ton of equipment to hit with her of Steelshaper's Gift. There's pieces to keep the wheels moving, but nothing to really end the game in devastating fashion. So I wondered if it would be worth adding some higher impact pieces to get across the finish line more quickly. What are your guys' thoughts about:
Umezawa's Jitte
Blackblade Reforged
Grafted Exoskeleton (probably a bit mean to be fair)

Other pieces to suggest? I think mostly the swords of x and y are out of my range, I have War and Peace somewhere about, but I think the idea of making combat hits as hard as possible would be something I'd like to have in the way of options, and considering I've got three equipment tutors in the deck now and ways to get them back from the yard it's worth exploring perhaps. I do have a Lightning Greaves to add now too.
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