Topical Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Ban List

[ISBPathfinder]

I wouldn't treat this as anything more than baseless rumor but thought it was interesting enough to post it here.

I suspect it's just a combination of Study probably being one of the most bannable cards currently legal and the fact Tomer from MTG Goldfish is now on the CFP and he famously despises the card, so will almost certainly have brought it up.

On the other hand didn't they say in the last update that they weren't looking at Study as a ban at the moment?

Dragonlover

Its been a while, I feel like they more so called it a beloved card of the format to which I couldn't help but vomit. If I am being honest the increase in the speed of the format has been a huge problem with the card. It was so much easier to pay taxes when you didn't have worry about dying in the next two turns as it comes down. People play a lot more cheap ramp and draw chaining things together than they used to.

I would put money on the cards cast per turn being up quite a bit from where it was 10 years ago and that sort of fact pushes Rhystic Study to be stronger than it used to be.

[Moxnix]

Rhystic has always been strong but its certainly way more powerful the closer to cedh you get and post brackets people just play more and more like cedh every day so yea its making gains as everyone slowly starts moving toward storm pile levels of speed. That being said i remember playing cedh in 2012 and everyone used it there and it was already this strong 15 years ago so depends on the meta but the meta is owns in has been around forever its just that meta is becoming the norm not the exception.

[ISBPathfinder]

Rhystic has always been strong but its certainly way more powerful the closer to cedh you get and post brackets people just play more and more like cedh every day so yea its making gains as everyone slowly starts moving toward storm pile levels of speed. That being said i remember playing cedh in 2012 and everyone used it there and it was already this strong 15 years ago so depends on the meta but the meta is owns in has been around forever its just that meta is becoming the norm not the exception.

Its always been strong but the amount of fast ramp and cheap draw / interaction is all up. Even in cEDH we have a lot more cheap interaction and draw than we did 10 years ago meaning its easier to multicast than it was previously as the card pool is always increasing. As the average spells / turn increases a tax effect is going to be multiplicative in its effect.

[Moxnix]

Rhystic has always been strong but its certainly way more powerful the closer to cedh you get and post brackets people just play more and more like cedh every day so yea its making gains as everyone slowly starts moving toward storm pile levels of speed. That being said i remember playing cedh in 2012 and everyone used it there and it was already this strong 15 years ago so depends on the meta but the meta is owns in has been around forever its just that meta is becoming the norm not the exception.

Its always been strong but the amount of fast ramp and cheap draw / interaction is all up. Even in cEDH we have a lot more cheap interaction and draw than we did 10 years ago meaning its easier to multicast than it was previously as the card pool is always increasing. As the average spells / turn increases a tax effect is going to be multiplicative in its effect.

Maybe but i remember playing theses kinds of games in 2011-2013 and much like today the player who gets study remora or necro was winning and in fact with how aggressive people mulled for crypt with the old mulligan system its not any faster turn wise in general if anything there are more free counters printed then mox ambers since then and people play the exact same suite of old fast mana cards and crypt was strong than most of them and was the easiest way to land a turn 1 study so I'm not sure i agree that its much differnt in a cedh meta at all i do agree that back then people who wee good at cedh were a minority where as today everyone knows how to play it so they understand how to use those cards better as the collective knowledge of the people in the hobby improves over time. But i was having rhystic vs msyitc vs necro draw your deck with trade secrets type games since forever so eh. Average sure i agree casual looks more and more like cedh and while decks are getting more effcient the meta is IMO less turbo than it was back then at that time storm decks were the best decks as they printed more good control and engines and banned ritual like cards like crypt with direct synergy CEDH list have replaced low end ritual and gas cards with free and 1 cc removals and more engine cards so its not actually any faster or at least i dont expect to see more cards per turn now in blue farm meta than i did in mana crypt storm meta. Despite that however It might be better now even with less cards per turn early as players are stronger and now mull for t2 answers to the turbo decks and all players interact so the first win attempt wins much less often than it did before meaning the longer turn 5-6 CEDH game lets study draw almost an entire deck. I would say it gained for control decks in that it wins games on its own more now in farm type lists and it lost power for the combo guys who wanted to land it turn 1 and hold the table hostage saying " if you curve out without free interaction ill kill you turn 2"

[illakunsaa]

I just hope nothing I own/play gets banned.

[ISBPathfinder]

I hope everything I own/play gets banned 🤔. Ok, not everything just a bunch of the best in class goodstuff bs.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WT6E54N1j38

The follow up video to the previous one I posted. There should be "some" sort of change for commander but he has no idea what it is. The Rhystic in his background is clickbait.

[CommanderMaster999]

Well tomorrow we will get the next rules announcement

There's only three I consider for getting banned

• Rhystic Study
• The one ring
• Thassa's Oracle

but I think all will survive two out three would end up causing the threaten thing again is the obvious reason (study and ring are atleast $50) so the third is probably in most danger the ring is not really causing trouble any more ever since the game changer list

Only oracle could be in danger because that can win faster than victory does but it would still be big hit in cedh

As for game changers additions the only things I can think of is The Great Henge and Food Chain but food has been fine, but there could be changers I'm missing

Nothing really needs to be removed from it

Now as for unbans it's always tough to determine those but going back to the article with the first 5 unbans thanks to the game changers/revaluation of the banned list, Gavin did mark some as "not at this time" as of "April 22nd 2025" which basically means potentially unbannable (most are changing how the bracket system works or/and enough players adapting to the system)

He marked all these as possible down the line if done right

• Biorhythm
• Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
• Erayo, Soratami Ascendant // Erayo's Essence
• Iona, Shield of Emeria
• Primeval Titan
• Prophet of Kruphix
• Recurring Nightmare
• Sundering Titan
• Sylvan Primordial

Honorable mention is Jeweled Lotus (he said this is the thee three most likely to leave the list) but lotus along with dockside are all confirmed as mistakes to Gavin just like Arcane Signet and also even if they weren't it still way to soon and can spread the bad message

[ISBPathfinder]

Well tomorrow we will get the next rules announcement

There's only three I consider for getting banned

• Rhystic Study
• The one ring
• Thassa's Oracle

but I think all will survive two out three would end up causing the threaten thing again is the obvious reason (study and ring are atleast $50) so the third is probably in most danger the ring is not really causing trouble any more ever since the game changer list

Only oracle could be in danger because that can win faster than victory does but it would still be big hit in cedh

As for game changers additions the only things I can think of is The Great Henge and Food Chain but food has been fine, but there could be changers I'm missing

Nothing really needs to be removed from it

Now as for unbans it's always tough to determine those but going back to the article with the first 5 unbans thanks to the game changers/revaluation of the banned list, Gavin did mark some as "not at this time" as of "April 22nd 2025" which basically means potentially unbannable (most are changing how the bracket system works or/and enough players adapting to the system)

He marked all these as possible down the line if done right

• Biorhythm
• Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
• Erayo, Soratami Ascendant // Erayo's Essence
• Iona, Shield of Emeria
• Primeval Titan
• Prophet of Kruphix
• Recurring Nightmare
• Sundering Titan
• Sylvan Primordial

Honorable mention is Jeweled Lotus (he said this is the thee three most likely to leave the list) but lotus along with dockside are all confirmed as mistakes to Gavin just like Arcane Signet and also even if they weren't it still way to soon and can spread the bad message

I think any game changers that are default as best in slot are problem enough that most game changers aren't being considered because there are too many auto picks that you should pick. The reason not to run One Ring / Rhystic is mostly the cost but if you use proxies suddenly its just optimal.

I think arguments could be made to also consider Sol Ring and possibly Cyclonic Rift to what you mentioned but I mostly agree those three are the mostly likely they would consider. Sol Ring is a stretch in a lot of directions but it doesn't mean that the card isn't hella problematic.

If I were to expand the game changers list I would strongly consider:

• Ashnod's Altar - combo, mana, and sac outlet. It does too much for too little.
• Phyrexian Altar - combo, mana, and sac outlet. It does too much for too little.
• Earthcraft - Its so much stronger than most other similar effects eliminating the need for haste and adding so many more infinite combos than most the other versions.
• Cabal Coffers / Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx - just from the stance that if there is ANY validity in Serra's Sanctum being on the list I don't see why you wouldn't consider Nykthos / coffers too.
• Demonic Consultation / Tainted Pact - I would honestly just outright ban these cards but game changer list is something. There is almost zero "fair play" use of these cards. They are used as lab man victory cards and they cost far too little to execute. I actually think I would more likely hit these two cards than outright ban Thoracle just because I don't think banning thoracle really solves the problem. It slows it down slightly but these two cards are in my opinion the outlying problem of lab man wincons in that its too cheap to deck themselves with zero synergy.
• Green creature tutors - the problem is sort of that there are soooooooo many variations now. But seriously, remove Worldly Tutor from the list its a complete freaking joke and consider real green tutors like Green Sun's Zenith.

I would love to see more differentiation between bracket 4 and 5. I don't think I have an issue with some of the last bans coming back so long as its in the highest brackets. Like, its not necessarily a problem that Mana Crypt exists it just doesn't need to exist in lower powered stuff. I still really don't want to see bracket 4 and 5 be more or less the same in their eyes with nothing really standing out between them. I actually like the idea of the game changers list but I also think that just having it set for bracket 3 is a mistake. Its a complex enough system I think I would love to see it expanded to brackets 2 and 4 and not just dump the game changers to bracket 3 alone. There are cards that are legal as game changers in bracket 3 that in my opinion need to be banned but if they just shifted them up to higher brackets it sort of solves the problem while allowing them to be legal to those being super cutthroat. Primeval Titan for instance would likely have a very minimal impact on bracket 5. In that sense I would love to see them expand the game changers out and try to just push power up and outright ban things across the format less.

[Moxnix]

I would love to see mana crypt jlo prophet primetime all free I wouldn't add anything and honestly hope it becomes a "suggestion list" branding brackets less as weight classes I also hope they go in depth on pacing and spell out what they meant by it at the last maybe even adding a 4.5 fromat for cedh light to let there be defindin place for t 5-6 decks and 7-8 pace without mashing everyone in. I think labman is fine its thassa herself who is too effcient doomsday was hard to pull off before her and labman wins feel like you need more gas and there is better interaction as its not a stack trigger winning. I would love a thassa ban CEDH is stale af with thassa and she belongs nowhere else sadly in tournaments there is a perception she makes them faster.