[C19] Song of the Worldsoul (Jumbo Commander)

[Rumpy5897]

It's great that they keep giving him previews in spite of his blatantly honest preview videos. He really tore one of the cards they gave him a new one.

[Jace]

Interesting. The first card mention of a Worldsoul. I figured it would be Amonkhet's, but this confirms Mat'Selesnya as the Ravnica Worldsoul after all.

[Krishnath]

It's great that they keep giving him previews in spite of his blatantly honest preview videos. He really tore one of the cards they gave him a new one.

I think that is exactly the reason they keep giving him preview cards. WotC wants honest feedback, the more the better, so they can give us an optimal product.

It isn't always that they get it right however, but they do try.

As for the card itself, I like it. It's the kind of fringe, but value, rare I like to see in the commander decks.

Also, on a side note, I wonder when WotC will be giving us a Mat'Selesnya card. Heck, I want cards for all the original Paruns that haven't gotten cards yet.

[5colorsrainbow]

Omg yes, I need 4 for my seleynsa deck.

It's great that they keep giving him previews in spite of his blatantly honest preview videos. He really tore one of the cards they gave him a new one.

I think that is exactly the reason they keep giving him preview cards. WotC wants honest feedback, the more the better, so they can give us an optimal product.

It isn't always that they get it right however, but they do try.

As for the card itself, I like it. It's the kind of fringe, but value, rare I like to see in the commander decks.

Also, on a side note, I wonder when WotC will be giving us a Mat'Selesnya card. Heck, I want cards for all the original Paruns that haven't gotten cards yet.

For a fan set and in general, I'd love a side set that was about the start of the guilds that would feature all the paruns. So far its only her, Gologari and Gruul we haven't gotten yet right?

[CommanderMaster999]

Sweet mercy

Broken beyond broken

[Lucifer, Sapere Aude]

At six mana I would play this card only if got a body and/or a token producer ability on ETB or as activated ability.

[CubJay]

For a fan set and in general, I'd love a side set that was about the start of the guilds that would feature all the paruns. So far its only her, Gologari and Gruul we haven't gotten yet right

afaik we don't even know who the Simic Parun was

[5colorsrainbow]

For a fan set and in general, I'd love a side set that was about the start of the guilds that would feature all the paruns. So far its only her, Gologari and Gruul we haven't gotten yet right

afaik we don't even know who the Simic Parun was

Thats right! All we know is thier first or last name was simic.

Hey whats with green not getting paruns!? lol

[theMarc]

This is so hot, but I don't know if I want it for my Rhys deck.

[Maluko]

Looks overcosted and redundant. Was this tested? I mean, Growing Ranks populates every upkeep and was present in Standard for a while without seeing any significant play. So considering an average of one spell a turn, I feel this card should've costed four mana as well, or at most five if you consider that you can populate at instant speed for a fun trick. At six mana… I'm just not feeling it. Hell, Sigil of the Empty Throne "populates" 4/4 angels everytime you cast an enchantment, and those angels are already larger than most tokens.

[Cyberium]

So like Inexorable Tide except for populate. I love how these two cards are like Doubling Season's two children, and all three work well together.

[Hawk]

Sweet mercy

Broken beyond broken

How is it broken exactly? I mean, in these deck's colors it might be possible to set up some sort of infinite daisy chain with Ancestral Statue + Mana Echoes (copying a token you have enough of) or Kor Skyfisher + Earthcraft, but..those things are already well-known degenerate infinite combos, and this is sort of just a win-more on top of them. I'm sure there's also something in a Bant deck that has used Cackling Counterpart on some powerful creature that it then quasiduplicates over and over (or any deck, with Helm of the Host), but again I imagine that those decks and combos are already powerful without this and we're mostly throwing a coat of red paint on our perfectly built racecar.

In the average boardstate, this is a six mana enchantment that says "whenever you cast a spell, get a 4/4" - which makes it mostly less powerful than Sigil of the Empty Throne (assuming both are in decks built to abuse them). Sure, sometimes it's way more than that (Desolation Twin, Giant Adephage, Dragonmaster Outcast), but on the flipside sometimes all you have is a 1/1 dork token or worse, you cast this and then get Wrath'd and now it does nothing.

It's super fun, but would probably be among my first cuts from this deck because it's so slow and so risky compared to the deck's commander, the newly previewed Selesnya Euologist, and Growing Ranks.

[void_nothing]

Interesting. The first card mention of a Worldsoul. I figured it would be Amonkhet's, but this confirms Mat'Selesnya as the Ravnica Worldsoul after all.

We already got that sense with Worldsoul Colossus.

[CommanderMaster999]

Sweet mercy

Broken beyond broken

How is it broken exactly? I mean, in these deck's colors it might be possible to set up some sort of infinite daisy chain with Ancestral Statue + Mana Echoes (copying a token you have enough of) or Kor Skyfisher + Earthcraft, but..those things are already well-known degenerate infinite combos, and this is sort of just a win-more on top of them. I'm sure there's also something in a Bant deck that has used Cackling Counterpart on some powerful creature that it then quasiduplicates over and over (or any deck, with Helm of the Host), but again I imagine that those decks and combos are already powerful without this and we're mostly throwing a coat of red paint on our perfectly built racecar.

In the average boardstate, this is a six mana enchantment that says "whenever you cast a spell, get a 4/4" - which makes it mostly less powerful than Sigil of the Empty Throne (assuming both are in decks built to abuse them). Sure, sometimes it's way more than that (Desolation Twin, Giant Adephage, Dragonmaster Outcast), but on the flipside sometimes all you have is a 1/1 dork token or worse, you cast this and then get Wrath'd and now it does nothing.

It's super fun, but would probably be among my first cuts from this deck because it's so slow and so risky compared to the deck's commander, the newly previewed Selesnya Euologist, and Growing Ranks.

Make a token version of any monster creature with a heck ETB trigger then just cast a spell you can end games fast

This is from a guy who knows all about how much Inexorable Tide was underrated till atraxa showed up

[Ebline]

Sweet mercy

Broken beyond broken

How is it broken exactly? I mean, in these deck's colors it might be possible to set up some sort of infinite daisy chain with Ancestral Statue + Mana Echoes (copying a token you have enough of) or Kor Skyfisher + Earthcraft, but..those things are already well-known degenerate infinite combos, and this is sort of just a win-more on top of them. I'm sure there's also something in a Bant deck that has used Cackling Counterpart on some powerful creature that it then quasiduplicates over and over (or any deck, with Helm of the Host), but again I imagine that those decks and combos are already powerful without this and we're mostly throwing a coat of red paint on our perfectly built racecar.

In the average boardstate, this is a six mana enchantment that says "whenever you cast a spell, get a 4/4" - which makes it mostly less powerful than Sigil of the Empty Throne (assuming both are in decks built to abuse them). Sure, sometimes it's way more than that (Desolation Twin, Giant Adephage, Dragonmaster Outcast), but on the flipside sometimes all you have is a 1/1 dork token or worse, you cast this and then get Wrath'd and now it does nothing.

It's super fun, but would probably be among my first cuts from this deck because it's so slow and so risky compared to the deck's commander, the newly previewed Selesnya Euologist, and Growing Ranks.

Make a token version of any monster creature with a heck ETB trigger then just cast a spell you can end games fast

This is from a guy who knows all about how much Inexorable Tide was underrated till atraxa showed up

Alright bud, let's entertain a best case for your scenario here:

Song here is 6 CMC, and puts you in White.

6 mana, 1 card, W required

Let's say your monster heck creature is one of the handful of truly crazy value ratio creatures in the game at 4 CMC. This is optimistic.

10 mana, 2 cards, W(x) required

Your cheapest option to make a token of our monster hecker without other extra setup is what, Twinflame at 2 CMC?

12 mana, 3 cards, WR(x) required

And now we need a spell to trigger off of. Best cost case, let's say it's one of a handful of 0 CMC spells. Not actually the best things to run in most cases, but we're focusing on this gimmick only.

12 mana, 4 cards, WR(x) required

That's a lot of work we've put in to get 3x of our monster heck boy, and if we're talking EDH, we've now locked ourselves into WR at minimum. There are dozens of ways we could have just ended the game for these same resources, both in WR and in more traditionally "strong" EDH colors. This isn't even particularly impressive value at battlecruiser speed.

Don't get me wrong, this is a good card for a few very specific decks, and it will be strong in certain battlecruiser metas, but it doesn't come close at all to the bar for broken.

[Mookie]

This looks pretty fun. It is a 6 mana enchantment with no board impact, but it can potentially create a lot of tokens. Notably, I believe it is the only triggered token producer that doesn't care about the type of spell being cast - most others only trigger off a specific subset of cards (such as enchantments, instants and sorceries, or creatures. This means you can stick it into any token deck, instead of needing to build around it. Most of my decks don't have more than 30 or so of any specific card type unless they're really dedicated to a theme, so this would get roughly double the token production of anything more specialized.

The fact that it populates instead of directly creating a token is both upside and downside - you need a token to get started, so it can do nothing. On the other hand, if you have some particularly powerful tokens (perhaps from something like Godsire or Rite of Replication), then you can get more value than a normal token producer.

Biggest concern is that it is 6 mana, but hopefully by the time you cast it, you'll already have some beefy tokens to populate - you likely don't want to cast it before your token production anyway.

Overall, I suspect it to be a bit on the slow side due to its cost, but looks like it can produce an army pretty quickly once it's going.

[hyalopterouslemur]

Sweet mercy

Broken beyond broken

How is it broken exactly?

Clone tokens. Now you're populating on every spell. Even without that, there are cards which produce some pretty huge tokens. Getting another 5/5 or 6/6 with every spell is a huge deal.

I like how Doubling Season makes proliferate and populate into mirrors. Over and over

[CommanderMaster999]

Traghusk is a reprint

Talk about a perfect thing to make a token version of it would add when you cast a spell gain 5 life

[Krishnath]

Omg yes, I need 4 for my seleynsa deck.

It's great that they keep giving him previews in spite of his blatantly honest preview videos. He really tore one of the cards they gave him a new one.

I think that is exactly the reason they keep giving him preview cards. WotC wants honest feedback, the more the better, so they can give us an optimal product.

It isn't always that they get it right however, but they do try.

As for the card itself, I like it. It's the kind of fringe, but value, rare I like to see in the commander decks.

Also, on a side note, I wonder when WotC will be giving us a Mat'Selesnya card. Heck, I want cards for all the original Paruns that haven't gotten cards yet.

For a fan set and in general, I'd love a side set that was about the start of the guilds that would feature all the paruns. So far its only her, Gologari and Gruul we haven't gotten yet right?

We have only gotten Izzet (Niv-Mizzet), Azorius (Azor), Dimir (Szadek), Golgari (Svogthos) and Rakdos (Rakdos). The Ghost Council we got was not the original, but rather the one that was around when the original Ravnica happened, the members of it change throughout the years, with most members only lasting a couple of centuries at most before getting replaced. That means that we don't have Selesnya (Mat'Selesnya), Simic (Unknown), Gruul (Unknown), Boros (Unknown), and technically Orzhov.

[The N82O Molecule]

heres how you cost this spell
start at 6
can you play it in a creature deck? no (cmc -1) (no tokens)
can you play it in a aggro deck? no (cmc -1) (cmc to high)
can you play it in a enchantment deck? yes (cmc +1)
would you play it in a enchantment deck? no (cmc -1) (there are stronger enchantments at this level ie [card]privileged position[\card])
does it do anything in any deck other that a token making deck? no (cmc -1) (populate isn't proliferate)
does it do anything when played? no (cmc -1)
if you have a token and you play this card are you up value? no (cmc -1)

at this point I have a 1 cmc enchantment that populates on a spell, and im still not liking it. honestly the only time this card is any good is specifically on first turn in a token deck thats it.

can it be cheated? yes but so can every single magic card somehow probably

sorry this card just grinds me so hard I guess

lol ok

[Rumpy5897]

Ok, I'll bite, and continue your thought exercise. I come equipped with the perfect deck for this to work in - Daxos the Returned. The deck's both tokens and enchantments, and would welcome this sort of effect in a vacuum for a reasonable mana investment. I'd windmill this in if it were 3CMC, and consider it at 4. However, 6 feels steep as hell. This is where Bolas Rock and True Conviction live. I already don't run Sigil of the Empty Throne, which craps angels for five mana in a similar fashion.

[The N82O Molecule]

Ok, I'll bite, and continue your thought exercise. I come equipped with the perfect deck for this to work in - Daxos the Returned. The deck's both tokens and enchantments, and would welcome this sort of effect in a vacuum for a reasonable mana investment. I'd windmill this in if it were 3CMC, and consider it at 4. However, 6 feels steep as hell. This is where Bolas Rock and True Conviction live. I already don't run Sigil of the Empty Throne, which craps angels for five mana in a similar fashion.

we on the same page!

further info into my lense, im under the umbrella that in competitive magic 5cmc and 6cmc either should win you the game or turn favor (not that edh is competitive but i feel that the mindset of a card having value, affecting the board, etc are also used)

additionally ive read that in commader around 10 turns is about the length of a game, and this card swallows a whole turn unless you have super mana

im my pewny little mind i would have looked at growing ranks and did as you say, costed this it at four. after all if growing ranks wasn't played that means it has room for growth, and i think this card is it honestly. . maybe at 4cmc lol

now of course you have the situation of when this card is on the battlefield and is it broken in theme. . .which is true right? imagine a 0/1 plant token and a stormed out grapeshot. this idea blows my mind. but my disclaimer here is that i don't like talking the "perfect scenario" for a card in magic cause that converstion never ends.

much love

[5colorsrainbow]

Omg yes, I need 4 for my seleynsa deck.

I think that is exactly the reason they keep giving him preview cards. WotC wants honest feedback, the more the better, so they can give us an optimal product.

It isn't always that they get it right however, but they do try.

As for the card itself, I like it. It's the kind of fringe, but value, rare I like to see in the commander decks.

Also, on a side note, I wonder when WotC will be giving us a Mat'Selesnya card. Heck, I want cards for all the original Paruns that haven't gotten cards yet.

For a fan set and in general, I'd love a side set that was about the start of the guilds that would feature all the paruns. So far its only her, Gologari and Gruul we haven't gotten yet right?

We have only gotten Izzet (Niv-Mizzet), Azorius (Azor), Dimir (Szadek), Golgari (Svogthos) and Rakdos (Rakdos). The Ghost Council we got was not the original, but rather the one that was around when the original Ravnica happened, the members of it change throughout the years, with most members only lasting a couple of centuries at most before getting replaced. That means that we don't have Selesnya (Mat'Selesnya), Simic (Unknown), Gruul (Unknown), Boros (Unknown), and technically Orzhov.

Razia is known and is carded. Its possible that the Ghost Council has a member who was a parun, the art book mention they where dead when they signed.

[Krishnath]

Omg yes, I need 4 for my seleynsa deck.



For a fan set and in general, I'd love a side set that was about the start of the guilds that would feature all the paruns. So far its only her, Gologari and Gruul we haven't gotten yet right?

We have only gotten Izzet (Niv-Mizzet), Azorius (Azor), Dimir (Szadek), Golgari (Svogthos) and Rakdos (Rakdos). The Ghost Council we got was not the original, but rather the one that was around when the original Ravnica happened, the members of it change throughout the years, with most members only lasting a couple of centuries at most before getting replaced. That means that we don't have Selesnya (Mat'Selesnya), Simic (Unknown), Gruul (Unknown), Boros (Unknown), and technically Orzhov.

Razia is known and is carded. Its possible that the Ghost Council has a member who was a parun, the art book mention they where dead when they signed.

Was Razia a Parun, or only the guildleader at the time of the block?

[theMarc]

We have only gotten Izzet (Niv-Mizzet), Azorius (Azor), Dimir (Szadek), Golgari (Svogthos) and Rakdos (Rakdos). The Ghost Council we got was not the original, but rather the one that was around when the original Ravnica happened, the members of it change throughout the years, with most members only lasting a couple of centuries at most before getting replaced. That means that we don't have Selesnya (Mat'Selesnya), Simic (Unknown), Gruul (Unknown), Boros (Unknown), and technically Orzhov.

Razia is known and is carded. Its possible that the Ghost Council has a member who was a parun, the art book mention they where dead when they signed.

Was Razia a Parun, or only the guildleader at the time of the block?

Razia was definitely the parun.

A couple other things I'd like to point out: First, I'm unconvinced that we can count Svogthos, the Restless Tomb as a stand-in for Svogthir. Second, we do know the name of the Gruul parun; it's Cisarzim.