Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[Reya]

@plaganegra I think cards like Amalgam, Ghoul and Necroduality are amazing in your decklist, and in any zombies decklist. I was thinking a lot of those deckbuilding options last night and, in my opinion, those cards could be a "win more" option. Of course, not always a "win more", but it could be the case if your main goal is to achieve a draining or an aristocratic loop (I think it's the case for Necroduality, it's a crazy card but when you can set up a loop, you don't need to double on draining effect to win). (Amalgam and Ghoul will be looped anyway like any other zombies, so we can imagine that they can be switched to any other utility zombie).

For me it's quite clear now and it's the only "issue" I can see with those cards. In the end it's mainly a matter of personnal taste of how you like to win your game with Varina. There is so many options available that we probably won't have a definitive build any time soon.

Therefore I can see a strong upside: when games are going long, Necroduality and stuff can just grind the game by themselves.

But again, it's highly dependant of the way you want to achieve victory. For my experience and style, I prefer to go down the road of looping (I'm a fan of the way pokken built the deck^^). After all we build our deck with personnal experience and play style.

English is not my mother tongue so I hope I expressed my point of view correctly

[plaganegra]

Am i right that most builds on this thread now turn to infinitly looping with phyrexian altar or other combo wins? Especially with liliana haakon and the changeling zombies? I myself try to stay away from phyrexian altar as i played it to much already in the past. The mass reanimation plan and the instantspeed answering is more my type of build. Alot depends on playgroup ofc..

Personally I include the combos in my deck but do not actively pursue them in games. Even if I have a combo win available to me sometimes I ignore it and try to win another way if the game is really fun. I just added liliana but if next time I play its just too easy I might take it back out. I also don't run any of the most powerful tutors currently which is a conscious choice to resist combo temptations lol

I am simultaneously very curious about how strong this deck can become and also not interested in playing it to it's full potential every game. Lol that's probably pretty strange to read hahahaha

I want my deck to pack a very strong punch but I try to play with restraint for the fun of the table since decks in our playgroup are very diverse in powerlevel. Sometimes its a race and a very competitive match and sometimes its a slower more casual match.

[pokken]

So personally I tend to just do Varina things as long as people will let me, and not go for the loop until 1) forced, or 2) I can do it with extreme security I won't get blown out by interaction. Mostly I'd rather build up the inevitability than force people's hands.

But I do actively pursue the cards I need to combo, I just try to sandbag them. I'm almost never going to present an altar until it's combo time (although sometimes I'll do Ashnod's Altar since it's less comboey and can protect my board).

My favorite thing to do is to get an innocuous piece or two in the bin and then wait for the opportunity to Intuition or Demonic Tutor for the last piece when I have counterspell backup. The nice part about this deck is you can let combo pieces sit in the bin and thye're still very relevant the moment you find mass reanimation or an altar or similar.

(I should note I do try to avoid leaving Gravecrawler in the bin as much as I can:).

[pzbw7z]

I have never played with chain of vapor - do you just use this card when you are planning to win? How often does someone come back and target something on your board with it and to what effect?

I saw a stream where a Blue player used Chain of Vapor to bounce a Prosper player's Underworld Breach. The Prosper player proceeded to sac all of his own lands, bouncing his own zero-drop rocks generating crazy mana as he comboed off and won.

Obviously, this might not be a strategy for casual players to depend upon, but it was spectacular to watch!

[pokken]

I have never played with chain of vapor - do you just use this card when you are planning to win? How often does someone come back and target something on your board with it and to what effect?

Yeah for me I usually use it if I need to bounce a Grafdigger's Cage or whatever so I can win. It also can stop other people winning. It can be risky since people can bounce your stuff, but I usually do not need th stuff on board to win (bouncing Gravecrawler does nothing:P). It's pretty nice to be able to clear anything for U.

There've been a few times where I used chain to defend my own permanents as well; one time I was able to chain my Phyrexian Altar. And one time I bounced my Repository Skaab so I could go off with a mass reanimation loop.

There've also been times where I just cast it to stop a win and then the person won the next turn, and there've been times where I tried to go off and got stopped, but no more than any other removal spell really. Certainly wouldn't like to be paying 3 mana for it (Generous Gift).

It's just a super flexible card.

[toctheyounger]

Am i right that most builds on this thread now turn to infinitly looping with phyrexian altar or other combo wins? Especially with liliana haakon and the changeling zombies? I myself try to stay away from phyrexian altar as i played it to much already in the past. The mass reanimation plan and the instantspeed answering is more my type of build. Alot depends on playgroup ofc..

I can only speak for myself but I run the combos because the pieces are otherwise valuable. If they weren't otherwise worthwhile pieces they wouldn't be in the list.

Currently it feels like I'm more likely to win through momentum than combo and I'm pretty happy with that. The only way it gets more combo consistent is adding Intuition piles and hard tutors. I'm not overtly against that but I also don't have the money to put tutors in every list I have that wants them. Or, like, any of them at all really lol.

I think that's what makes the list so awesome right now is that you can absolutely just push a tempo strategy with swings and efficient plays and any combos you might run are kind of just there for inevitability. We can work around our stuff dying or getting bounced, we can generally smack face fairly well and we've got a pretty dense web of synergies throughout the list such that if you don't wanna combo you can totally still win a game.

[pzbw7z]

I'm not overtly against that but I also don't have the money to put tutors in every list I have that wants them. Or, like, any of them at all really lol.

Grim Tutor isn't too hard on the wallet and is quite playable. Beseech the Queen is fine in a heavily B list except if Ad Nauseam is on board. The same is true of Dark Petition.

[toctheyounger]

I'm not overtly against that but I also don't have the money to put tutors in every list I have that wants them. Or, like, any of them at all really lol.

Grim Tutor isn't too hard on the wallet and is quite playable. Beseech the Queen is fine in a heavily B list except if Ad Nauseam is on board. The same is true of Dark Petition.

Yeah. Diabolic Intent just got a reprint too. It should drop a little. I do have a Vamp tutor, which by rights would fit here very nicely, I guess I'm just torn on whether it's jumping the proverbial shark to bust Varina wide open with hard tutors.

[plaganegra]

@plaganegra I think cards like Amalgam, Ghoul and Necroduality are amazing in your decklist, and in any zombies decklist. I was thinking a lot of those deckbuilding options last night and, in my opinion, those cards could be a "win more" option. Of course, not always a "win more", but it could be the case if your main goal is to achieve a draining or an aristocratic loop (I think it's the case for Necroduality, it's a crazy card but when you can set up a loop, you don't need to double on draining effect to win). (Amalgam and Ghoul will be looped anyway like any other zombies, so we can imagine that they can be switched to any other utility zombie).

For me it's quite clear now and it's the only "issue" I can see with those cards. In the end it's mainly a matter of personnal taste of how you like to win your game with Varina. There is so many options available that we probably won't have a definitive build any time soon.

Therefore I can see a strong upside: when games are going long, Necroduality and stuff can just grind the game by themselves.

But again, it's highly dependant of the way you want to achieve victory. For my experience and style, I prefer to go down the road of looping (I'm a fan of the way pokken built the deck^^). After all we build our deck with personnal experience and play style.

English is not my mother tongue so I hope I expressed my point of view correctly

Thanks for checking out my list! Varina has so many options from a deckbuilding standpoint I think playing with the list is a healthy obsession lol.

I do love necroduality in my list, It is currently in the "maybe" pile after being a strong inclusion since it's release. I would categorize it as a payoff card, and I am not sure how many of those I need, so I am experimenting with cutting it and also kindred discovery. Both have been very good at taking over games for me and have each helped me to win in a big way when they were used. I am not sure if I need them though and in pursuit of trying to find the best balance I am risking losing these effects for now and might have to add them back in if my deck doesn't function as well as it did before.

I added some comments above about the scenarios where I think that including the different "auto-reanimators" in your list might be appropriate. I think at some point it may be correct to reduce the number and focus on the ones that work the best (which right now I am not sure which, but I can probably guess).

I think prized amalgam is the weakest link out of all of them because it is dependent on another one and is not nearly as strong as poxwalkers. Poxwalkers requires a more specific trigger, but the payoff is extremely high if you can get it going. I can see myself cutting one or both of these depending on what direction I want to take my list. Right now I am including both to see how well it all works together for a bit. Once the new transmogrant comes out I will be more tempted to remove one of these two either poxwalkers or amalgam. Amalgam get's stronger with bladewhip transmogrant, but is still a vastly lower ceiling and floor than poxwalkers is.

I love Pokken's list too I learned a lot from how he constructs his deck as well as from many people in this thread! I will always try to present options and lines of thinking about why to include or not to include certain cards. EDH is wonderful because any deckbuilding goal is valid and people's goals are so different it gives you a lot more to talk about and consider when building the deck that meets the individual's goal.

[pokken]

do love necroduality in my list, It is currently in the "maybe" pile after being a strong inclusion since it's release. I would categorize it as a payoff card, and I am not sure how many of those I need, so I am experimenting with cutting it and also kindred discovery. Both have been very good at taking over games for me and have each helped me to win in a big way when they were used. I am not sure if I need them though and in pursuit of trying to find the best balance I am risking losing these effects for now and might have to add them back in if my deck doesn't function as well as it did before.

Honestly I am fairly sure that the 'standard build' of 8-ish power level aggro-combo Varina you and I are kinda converging on -- I don't think it plays any of those payoffs. I think it wants more zombies and to treat Varina's ability like it's drawing X cards, which makes it a strong enough engine without any payoffs or derps. If your commander is Kindred Discovery playing a second copy is basically noise that confuses your gameplan with spending mana and cards to set up doubling your gameplan instead of making your gameplan very consistent.

This is not to say that we shouldn't have sources of card advantage, but, much like playing Panharmonicon in Yarok, the Desecrated (which a lot of people do, sure--not to digress too hard on that, but I think it's a mistake if you're trying to build a consistent deck) - trying to play singletons in your deck that duplicate what your commander does creates a lot of inconsistency in your gameplan.

There are a lot of reasons why "do what commander do" is not a great strategy at upper power levels--
- You're almost always going to play your commander first. So if you have Varina, and Necroduality, you're gonna run Varina out first most likely. If not, what're you doing? But Necroduality creates tension with that. It says cast it first so you get more zombies, but if you do that you're spending mana and a card that could have been a card that works with varina.

- (kinda connected to the first point) It's a card you draw that is *not* either executing your gameplan or protecting your gameplan; it's executing your gameplan, but only if it's already failed.

- When the effect is dependent on your commander, like Alhammarret's Archive, it's *especially* vulnerable attack surface, since it can be stopped by either your commander or your engine being removed.

- When these effects are artifacts/enchantments, they don't line up with your recursion package (e.g.Kindred Discovery vs Undead Augur as CA engines -- Augur lines up with the rest of your strategy!) This creates attack surface that's very vulnerable.

- It leads to magical thinking due to explosiveness/swinginess; you remember your deck the time it blew up with double or triple triggers not all the times you failed to get there. This tends to be what has people playing a bunch of 5-7 drops and Necroduality. Sure it goes off, but only when the stars align.



In my deck, the only card I consider to be like this is Kindred Discovery, but my thinking about discovery is:

1) It has extremely favorable sequencing. (it's great before or after zombies, before or after varina)
2) it's great at basically any phase of the game (recovering from a sweeper, closing the game, right after Varina, whatever)
3) it enables combos (the most important part; if it didn't enable Gravecrawler / Phyrexian Altar combo on its own, I wouldn't consider it)
4) it can often be taken advantage of before people can remove it and pay for itself--they need untapped mana and interaction right when you cast it, or it's GG.
5) It's not at all dependent on Varina

With all that said, I think if you're going to run any single payoff card, Kindred Discovery is it and stuff like Necroduality and Teferi's Ageless Insight should stay on the shelf.

Necroduality has really bad sequencing problems, and Teferi's Ageless Insight effects have the dependent on varina problem, but also the "i need a strong board" problem (thus: winmore).

KD is good enough that I considered playing Academy Rector as an out of tribe card (since I Could also find dictate or stairwell).

Even so, KD costs 5 and is not a zombie. So those things make me think about cutting it. I don't think it'd be wrong to cut, if you added Razorlash Transmogrant in its place in my deck it might make for a more consistent experience.

(editor's note: I should note you could probably consider Skullclamp to be this, but I classify clamp as early game draw; i have so many 1/2 drop zombies that I'm willing to clamp, clamp performs enough like a Night's Whisper that I classify it as that...with combo benefits)

[devilcatz]

Overwhelming Remorse as a removal? It may be just cost 1 when we need it? Not that it can replace anything for me.

Found a Plaguebearer while sorting old cards. It seems awesome but I can rarely have the mana to do anything much. Too busy casting zombies. Plus, the range is limited.

Razorlash Transmogrant may not be so awesome as it takes 2 black to get it back to trigger other GY cards. 4 non-basics = 4 turns. The game could be closing soon I think. So far, my games normally near their end. Paying 2 - I normally don't have much untapped lands. Plus, 2 black = costly.

[pokken]

Razorlash Transmogrant may not be so awesome as it takes 2 black to get it back to trigger other GY cards. 4 non-basics = 4 turns. The game could be closing soon I think. So far, my games normally near their end. Paying 2 - I normally don't have much untapped lands. Plus, 2 black = costly.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Yeah it really depends on your game length; i see games going 8 turns or so usually (ballpark).

There are two main good play patterns with transmogrant;
1. cast it on turn 2 as a 3/1 body
2. chuck it to Varina on turn 3-4 and then bring it back if you need it
2.5 (bonus): skullclamp it

If your games are ending on turn 4, I hope on you are on @plaganegra's chrome mox/mox diamond strategy lol

[pzbw7z]

KD is good enough that I considered playing Academy Rector as an out of tribe card (since I Could also find dictate or stairwell).

Why would you do that with B tutors available?

Apologies for nit-picking such a thoughtful post.

[pokken]

Why would you do that with B tutors available?

Apologies for nit-picking such a thoughtful post

Because Academy Rector gets reanimated by Living Death if you loot it (or Dread Return) and with a black tutor, you're 6-8 mana and sometimes -1 card, for the bonus of allowing an opponent to counter it with Swan Song or Fierce Guardianship / Force of Negation or Dovin's Veto or Negate

With Rector, once rector resolves and you sac it, they can't do anything about your enchantment hitting play. and it costs 4 mana, not 6-8.

If you haven't played against rector a lot there's a ton of crazy sequencing things you can do with it too, just the simplest being waiting to sac it until the last second before your turn so no one knows what you're getting. It forces certain play patterns that're different than tutoring for it.

[toctheyounger]

For what its worth I've considered removing Discovery myself too. It can really, really dig you out of a hole and gas your hand, but it also isn't a may ability, so it really can't be in play if you're ready to go off.

[pzbw7z]

Why would you do that with B tutors available?

Apologies for nit-picking such a thoughtful post

Because Academy Rector gets reanimated by Living Death if you loot it (or Dread Return) and with a black tutor, you're 6-8 mana and sometimes -1 card, for the bonus of allowing an opponent to counter it with Swan Song or Fierce Guardianship / Force of Negation or Dovin's Veto or Negate

With Rector, once rector resolves and you sac it, they can't do anything about your enchantment hitting play. and it costs 4 mana, not 6-8.

If you haven't played against rector a lot there's a ton of crazy sequencing things you can do with it too, just the simplest being waiting to sac it until the last second before your turn so no one knows what you're getting. It forces certain play patterns that're different than tutoring for it.

All true and good points.

[RedCheese]

Almost lost to deckout because of Discovery since i also had Tombstone Stairway also on the field XD. I understand for maybe cutting it.

[pokken]

Almost lost to deckout because of Discovery since i also had Tombstone Stairway also on the field XD. I understand for maybe cutting it.

personally I'm going to take any "lose to self-decking" as a win for the deck, since it did what it's supposed to do and dominated the game.

[toctheyounger]

Almost lost to deckout because of Discovery since i also had Tombstone Stairway also on the field XD. I understand for maybe cutting it.

personally I'm going to take any "lose to self-decking" as a win for the deck, since it did what it's supposed to do and dominated the game.

Yeah, its amazing draw and the deck out is still good. But its not like we've got an insta win with Discovery in play. Barring maybe Gary but even then you're counting cards and praying to sweet zombie Jesus you don't overdrawn hitting devotion. I at least think its worthwhile running more stuff that gets it out of play (aforementioned Chain, maybe Otawara). We won't get better for draw but it is sort of 'too much of a good thing' once you find your momentum.

[plaganegra]

Razorlash Transmogrant may not be so awesome as it takes 2 black to get it back to trigger other GY cards. 4 non-basics = 4 turns. The game could be closing soon I think. So far, my games normally near their end. Paying 2 - I normally don't have much untapped lands. Plus, 2 black = costly.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Yeah it really depends on your game length; i see games going 8 turns or so usually (ballpark).

There are two main good play patterns with transmogrant;
1. cast it on turn 2 as a 3/1 body
2. chuck it to Varina on turn 3-4 and then bring it back if you need it
2.5 (bonus): skullclamp it

If your games are ending on turn 4, I hope on you are on @plaganegra's chrome mox/mox diamond strategy lol

@pokken First of all, thanks for your very in depth analysis above it is very valuable to myself and I am sure a lot of people reading. I completely agree on your analysis, but I want to point out a couple of factors that make kindred discovery and necroduality a little bit different and worth considering in certain types of builds. I am with you thinking they don't fit in the pursuit of a finely tuned list where Varina should just always be the focus over these two enchantments. That is why I agree that these cards can be cut. That doesn't mean someone reading should cut them or not consider them though. They are great and really fun to play with.

Necroduality produces a lot of bodies that can then attack, so in some circumstances it can actually outpace kindred discovery when Varina is in play over a couple of turns, especially with the recursion bodies and a sac outlet activated. This is a little bit of magical thinking, but it has happened to me before and it was actually the first time I played the card lol. It pretty much won me the game because my guys kept coming back and doubling and then I dug through my deck super fast over a couple of turns with varina in play. Then I had a mass reanimate win I think. In that scenario Kindred Discovery probably would have done something similar just a little bit less efficiently than Necroduality did it since I wasn't paying mana for much of what was happening.

OK next topic - I think the path to power for this deck is treating Varina's loot effect as much as a "draw" effect on its own as possible. That is why I try to infuse as much value as possible into my GY so when I discard something that can be used later without too much trouble (or sooner for free) it is just giving me free card advantage that is easy for the rest of the table to overlook.

Which brings me to Bladewhip Transmogrant. I will add one more point to your list above - this card is also an infinite combo piece with phyrexian altar and a token generator like Headless Rider, Tormod, the desecrator, or Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver. For that reason alone it is probably a near-staple-level inclusion in Varina.

@devilcatz
The downsides you are mentioning are mostly irrelevant in practice.

• BB to get it back should not a problem with solid manabase construction.
• 4 nonbasics = 4 turns usually yes. But you wont be re-animating it until after Varina hits anyway (T4-5-6) so this actually fits perfectly into a zombie curve.
• Also noteworthy it costs 2 colorless mana to cast, so you can play it off of sol ring, mana crypt, or nonblack lands where normally you wouldn't be casting a zombie.

Personally my games usually take 8+ turns unless I just want to race. I don't ever really do that so it is hard to say since I try not to infinite combo win unless I need to or it happens organically. I think with a maxxed out Varina list you could probably end the game pretty consistently T5-7. Being set up by T4 is the focus I think is what you mean to say and I think Transmorgrant sets you up quite well in many scenarios wether it is your zombie drop before Varina, or a value play after she hits when it could come back **with a friend** and +1/+1 bigger haha. The buff is actually a downside for skullclamp though which I actually wish it didnt get that buff now lol.

(editor's note: I should note you could probably consider Skullclamp to be this, but I classify clamp as early game draw; i have so many 1/2 drop zombies that I'm willing to clamp, clamp performs enough like a Night's Whisper that I classify it as that...with combo benefits)

I see it as early draw if you really really need it because I very much so want to keep my zombies on board until they loot for me. The reason I added skullclamp to my list is because I took out kindred discovery actually. I see it as a way to dig for answers or win conditions, or recover from a wipe (which usually isn't a problem for me unless it exiles though). It is so synergistic with the sac outlets, token creation, amount ox X/1s that I use, and especially the auto-reanimators it felt like a mistake to not include one of the most powerful artifacts ever printed lol. And with that new zombie-looking art especially from the warhammer decks! Also the sol-ring was an instant art upgrade for me as well. I love me some zombie-themed art.

What are your favorite zombi-clamp lines and combos?

One more sidenote - I think Mox Diamond is bad in this deck unless you are pushing for a cedh level deck that might want to combo without ever getting to 4 lands on the board. it definitely does not count as a land either and when I realized how much it moves the math in the wrong direction in favor of speed I cut it immediately. Maybe I am wrong about that though?

[pokken]

Mox diamond is a tough one. I think you need to be on enough early game draw for it to work. My gut instinct is that it should be played. Diamond is a card where it has some really bad sequences but man when it's good it's real good and it's usually that. I'd keep it in for a while.

Thanks for the combo note on transmogrant. Good callout

My favorite clamp line is the simplest. Gravecrawler wear spike hat draw card.

Lazotep chancellor putrid imp ashnod clamp is my combo line. It's solid and surprising. All cheap cards.

I like Haakon automaton altar clamp too. Clamp it every other time.

[plaganegra]

@pokken do you think my list supports mox diamond as it sits right now? (in sig)

What are a few options you would swap out to include it?

I am assuming I need to
+1 diamond
+1 land
-2 stuff

[pokken]

@pokken do you think my list supports mox diamond as it sits right now? (in sig)

What are a few options you would swap out to include it?

I am assuming I need to
+1 diamond
+1 land
-2 stuff

I don't think I would play md in your build without adding ponder brainstorm top at a minimum. Possibly impulse too. The challenge is you need to get to 4 and with 34 lands and minimal early game hand fixing (tithe clamp and tax and tutors only) I think mox is risky.

The primary tension of Varina with tons of 1-2 cmc zombies is not making it to 4 mana. Which is backbreaking.

It's why I believe in ponder so much.

If you're sure you want to avoid those tempo loss effects you might be right to skip diamond.

If you look at cedh mox diamond decks they are almost invariably packing a ton of card draw at 2-3, all the cantrips and usually a card advantage piece in the zone. Which is how they can play it. Plus assloads of ramp.

My gut instinct with your deck as is is that even not respective of mox Diamond you should probably be on 3 more lands at least, fwiw

[plaganegra]

@pokken do you think my list supports mox diamond as it sits right now? (in sig)

What are a few options you would swap out to include it?

I am assuming I need to
+1 diamond
+1 land
-2 stuff

I don't think I would play md in your build without adding ponder brainstorm top at a minimum. Possibly impulse too. The challenge is you need to get to 4 and with 34 lands and minimal early game hand fixing (tithe clamp and tax and tutors only) I think mox is risky.

The primary tension of Varina with tons of 1-2 cmc zombies is not making it to 4 mana. Which is backbreaking.

It's why I believe in ponder so much.

If you're sure you want to avoid those tempo loss effects you might be right to skip diamond.

If you look at cedh mox diamond decks they are almost invariably packing a ton of card draw at 2-3, all the cantrips and usually a card advantage piece in the zone. Which is how they can play it. Plus assloads of ramp.

My gut instinct with your deck as is is that even not respective of mox Diamond you should probably be on 3 more lands at least, fwiw

Well I took at look at my list and tried to make the most efficient and competitive Varina deck without using all of the 1-2cmc tutors and whole gamut of mana rocks available (which I think would push this to probably low tier cedh level).

List in my signature is updated. Made some tough cuts for more interaction, speed, draw/selection, and focus on the most powerful synergies I think are included in the deck.

+1 Chain of Vapor / -1 Anguished Unmaking
+1 Delay / -1 Flawless Maneuver
+1 Ponder / -1 Silversmote Ghoul
+1 Brainstorm / -1 Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver
+1 Sensei's Divining Top / -1 Lazotep Reaver
+1 Lim-Dul's Vault / -1 Midnight Reaper
+1 Zombie Cannibal / -1 Prized Amalgam
+1 Mox Diamond / -1 Liliana, Untouched by Death
+1 Windfall / -1 Winds of Abandon
+1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse / -1 Swamp
+1 Ancient Tomb / -1 Vault of Champions

What do you guys think?

I found this list which I thought was an interesting example of a very "cedh" Varina list which doesn't interest me very much but helped me remember all of the most powerful stuff you could cram into this deck rofl. A couple cards really stood out to me which I never really thought to include:

• Mothdust Changeling
• Zombie Cannibal
• Lazav, the Multifarious
• Lim-Dul's Vault

[pokken]

I think that's pretty close to what I'd imagine. It might be going too hard and I don't know if id want to play it. But it's cool to think about for sure

I really do love how tunable Varina is