Yeah, I think that is a huge mistake they made. *all* the eldrazi should have had at least one colorless symbol to keep out the scumming. Stuff like Kozilek, the Great Distortion vs. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.
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A big aspect of this was the (in this case ironically named) "third set problem" rearing it's head again. They'd come up with a cool mechanic idea to represent the Eldrazi: Colorless specific mana. But they had two sets to fill, so they wanted to reserve "something" for the second set. They picked the new, experimental colorless mana treatment as the thing to delay for the second set. But that meant that they couldn't use colorless mana on Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, because they hadn't introduced it yet. As a result, both sets ended up arguably weaker than if they'd just limited themselves to one set and had Colorless mana from the get go.pokken wrote: ↑3 years agoYeah, I think that is a huge mistake they made. *all* the eldrazi should have had at least one colorless symbol to keep out the scumming. Stuff like Kozilek, the Great Distortion vs. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.
They dropped the ball hard on both sets in a lot of ways. The ally tapping mechanic was weak, a 5 color mechanic in a colorless matters set with little to support 5 color was dumb, devoid was a cop out that did little, ingest and processor were parasitic and lame, green was way too weak in BFZ, just bad all around. Colorless costs were the one good part, and really should have been the two set mechanic.Wallycaine wrote: ↑3 years agoA big aspect of this was the (in this case ironically named) "third set problem" rearing it's head again. They'd come up with a cool mechanic idea to represent the Eldrazi: Colorless specific mana. But they had two sets to fill, so they wanted to reserve "something" for the second set. They picked the new, experimental colorless mana treatment as the thing to delay for the second set. But that meant that they couldn't use colorless mana on Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, because they hadn't introduced it yet. As a result, both sets ended up arguably weaker than if they'd just limited themselves to one set and had Colorless mana from the get go.pokken wrote: ↑3 years agoYeah, I think that is a huge mistake they made. *all* the eldrazi should have had at least one colorless symbol to keep out the scumming. Stuff like Kozilek, the Great Distortion vs. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.
World Breaker is a card that seems interesting, but I haven't gotten around to playing. My primary issue with it is the cost - green has a ton of Reclamation Sage effects already, and seven mana is a lot to pay for one. World Breaker does admittedly have a bunch of additional upside over smaller effects - a bigger body, exile, the ability to recur itself - but it's still hard to justify running a seven mana utility creature. More interesting if the large body is particularly valuable to you, or if you have land sacrificing synergies. Its self-recursion is awesome for grindy metas, but given how much card advantage there is these days, it doesn't seem super necessary unless you expect to want to exile a bunch of problematic lands.
....and yes, BFZ / OGW was a mess. It did bring us Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, which is the last time I can recall white being even arguably overpowered, but... all the ally stuff was pretty parasitic, a lot of the mechanics were clunky, and the cheap Eldrazi broke Modern. Colorless mana was definitely a sweet mechanic though, and really could have used a second set.
....and yes, BFZ / OGW was a mess. It did bring us Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, which is the last time I can recall white being even arguably overpowered, but... all the ally stuff was pretty parasitic, a lot of the mechanics were clunky, and the cheap Eldrazi broke Modern. Colorless mana was definitely a sweet mechanic though, and really could have used a second set.
- hyalopterouslemur
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I like repeatable removal if nothing else. Wait, 5/7? I'm sure this fits in with my Wild Pair.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!
It is a cast trigger so hard to interact with. That being said, anything being "cast" is also hard for non-blue to interact with on the stack at least.pokken wrote: ↑3 years agoIt just costs way too much these days. That, and everyone I ever see plays him forgets he's a cast trigger and tries to blink him. Happened 4 separate times.
It exemplifies my love-hate relationship with cast triggers in that I really hate blink-killing lands as a strategy, but I also find things you can't interact with a bit annoying.
I see two options for non-blue decks to prevent triggers before or after the stack. Denying mana (i.e. the casting) or stax pieces (e.g. Torpor Orb).
So say you want to advise someone else on how to interact with opponents who frequently use World Breaker (because that exile sucks for that particular build) and you don't want to go down the mana denial route, would you view the inclusion of contingencies like sac outlets as a means of interaction?
And yes, I'd like to pile on R&D for their crappy design of Zendikar. Expeditions are okay.
There are a *ton* hate pieces that whomp on ETB abilities but most of them are in white, Hushbringer, etc. But honestly I think there could stand to be a lot more interaction for these kinds of effects. Green and white can both fairly counter activated/triggered abilities, and I'd love to see that. I'd love to see a lot more generic hate on triggers - e.g. a hatebear that is like Suppression Field for triggered abilities would be dope.umtiger wrote: ↑3 years agoSo say you want to advise someone else on how to interact with opponents who frequently use World Breaker (because that exile sucks for that particular build) and you don't want to go down the mana denial route, would you view the inclusion of contingencies like sac outlets as a means of interaction?
I would definitely include sac outlets as a way to interact with exile effects, if that's what you mean -- back in the day it was very common to run a number of sac effects to defend commanders against tuck, for example.
I dunno, I'm not sure exactly what the right direction is, but I will say that I have had a lot of games just crapped on by the 'get to 10 mana and cast a bomb that you can't interact with' and I'm not a huge fan of that design space, be it Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger or Torment of Hailfire. I try never to play infinite combos that can't be interacted with by removal and try to avoid stuff like Expropriate but sadly Wizards just keeps printing this stuff in new and dumb ways
![Sticking Out Tongue :P](./images/smilies/3-tongue-fb.png)
10 mana from yard to battlefield is a lot. Second, it often comes too late to remove problem permanents, even in casual play. I could see it in a very long, grindy control game where you have plenty of countermagic (somehow after the 7-10 from this guy) and the exile clause matters.
That said, it's still my favourite answer to Humility.
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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Too bad you can't pair something into it, pesky cast trigger.hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑3 years agoI like repeatable removal if nothing else. Wait, 5/7? I'm sure this fits in with my Wild Pair.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
Kaalia HQ
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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I play it in Maelstrom Wanderer. I like that when I cascade into it there is always a target for the cast trigger. The big body is nice too.
The recursion ability is also pretty cool, especially if I have Possibility Storm out since I can exile something and PS into a new creature.
The deck doesn't have any blink, but it does have a lot of self bounce so I can recast things. I really love the cast trigger with Possibility Storm.
Also, there is Imoti, Celebrant of Bounty that makes the CMC worthwhile.
The only nonbo in my deck is that Sublime Epiphany doesn't get much value from making a token of it.
The recursion ability is also pretty cool, especially if I have Possibility Storm out since I can exile something and PS into a new creature.
The deck doesn't have any blink, but it does have a lot of self bounce so I can recast things. I really love the cast trigger with Possibility Storm.
Also, there is Imoti, Celebrant of Bounty that makes the CMC worthwhile.
The only nonbo in my deck is that Sublime Epiphany doesn't get much value from making a token of it.
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
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Tuesday, February 16th, 2021; Scroll of Fate
It's like an Illusionary Mask with an easier to decipher, single line of text. That's a win in my book.
It's like an Illusionary Mask with an easier to decipher, single line of text. That's a win in my book.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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I collect Kaalia of the Vast normal-size cards. Do you have any extra taking up space in your binder? Help me grow my collection!
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folding_music glitter pen on my mana crypt
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I know this is not an effect that every player desires, but clearing your hand with this is so easy. I grabbed four copies of this card recently (and four copies of Gustha's Scepter a billion years ago) because going hellbent feels beautiful in lots of situations.
The scroll's also good in werewolves decks cos you can morph them if they're about to meet the requirements to flip and, because you manifest them, you're probably casting zero cards on your turn. I'm forever trying to get Scorned Villager // Moonscarred Werewolf to be a card and this is the sort of mechanic that helps <3
The scroll's also good in werewolves decks cos you can morph them if they're about to meet the requirements to flip and, because you manifest them, you're probably casting zero cards on your turn. I'm forever trying to get Scorned Villager // Moonscarred Werewolf to be a card and this is the sort of mechanic that helps <3
This card is so gross with any kind of flicker effect.
"I activate Scroll of Fate. I cast Momentary Blink on my 2/2. Oh look, it's an Omniscience!"
I just love manifest. Mastery of the unseen is one of my favorite cards. I have no idea why it just tickles me ')
Given how great Cloudform and Lightform have been in my Brago, King Eternal deck, i should get one of these. Even with a low curve, cheating two cards into play per turn for three mana is a great rate.
Also, Tezzeret the Seeker can fetch it without dying and untap it. *adds card to cardmarket list*
Probably the biggest thing that bothers me about this card is WoTC constantly printing niche cards only in commander decks that somehow never get foil treatments.
It definitely makes me less likely to try this in Ephara.
Just to name a few. I wish they would make all-foil versions of the commander decks at a markup or something like the SLs. Even if they were much smaller and only included the unique cards - maybe a foil set of all the decks' unique cards.
![Sticking Out Tongue :P](./images/smilies/3-tongue-fb.png)
Just to name a few. I wish they would make all-foil versions of the commander decks at a markup or something like the SLs. Even if they were much smaller and only included the unique cards - maybe a foil set of all the decks' unique cards.
I like Scroll a lot although I'm heavily biased because Masknaught is my favorite Vintage deck of all time. Even outside of the morph deck I built a while back it performs well. Flickers and morph just make it obscene.
I immediately put this in Marchesa, the Black Rose. the deck is mostly permanents. Manifest is amazing with Marchesa - I run quite a few manifest cards. It's like an Aether Vial that doesn't care about CMC.
The ability to play a sac outlet on turn 1/2, this on turn 3 manifesting a big permanent, turn 4 playing Marchesa, trigger dethrone on the manifest, getting a free fatty at the end step...It is crazy powerful.
And it's also fine if you want to use it to put smaller things into play. In that aspect it is like aether vial - letting me play an extra threat every turn.
It gives my deck a lot of redundancy. You don't always draw Sneak Attack !
The ability to play a sac outlet on turn 1/2, this on turn 3 manifesting a big permanent, turn 4 playing Marchesa, trigger dethrone on the manifest, getting a free fatty at the end step...It is crazy powerful.
And it's also fine if you want to use it to put smaller things into play. In that aspect it is like aether vial - letting me play an extra threat every turn.
It gives my deck a lot of redundancy. You don't always draw Sneak Attack !
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme
I run Scroll of Fate in Brago, King Eternal, and it's absurd there. Yes, I would like a free personal Show and Tell every turn. It's also very strong with Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer and any other morph-centric commander.
However, if you don't have a great way to take advantage of manifested cards (either via blink or actually caring about morphs), I'd generally pass. Turning a card into a vanilla 2/2 is pretty underwhelming, and not getting ETB effects off the manifest means it's usually better to just cast a creature card. That said, it is an interesting way to sneak in Phage the Untouchable or other creatures with a negative ETB effect, if you want additional redundancy for Torpor Orb. Manifested cards are also pretty hard to play around, if you want to do something sneaky.
However, if you don't have a great way to take advantage of manifested cards (either via blink or actually caring about morphs), I'd generally pass. Turning a card into a vanilla 2/2 is pretty underwhelming, and not getting ETB effects off the manifest means it's usually better to just cast a creature card. That said, it is an interesting way to sneak in Phage the Untouchable or other creatures with a negative ETB effect, if you want additional redundancy for Torpor Orb. Manifested cards are also pretty hard to play around, if you want to do something sneaky.
- hyalopterouslemur
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Two obvious uses: Blinking things like Blightsteel Colossus and morphing things like Phyrexian Dreadnought
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Crazy Monkey Arcane Themes
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My favorite use of Scroll of Fate is in Animar morphs. Either playing out a Willbender at instant speed or sneaking Vigor into play among the face-down creatures. It also plays well with Skirk Alarmist and a self-bounce effect.
Commander Decks
Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos
Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos
Over the years I've basically stopped registering the cards and Commander preview seasons (and the product itself) ironically became the least interesting part of the game to an EDH-only player. I remember in the earlier years I suggested an annual Commander's Arsenal product that basically encompasses all the new cards in foil (and they could unfoil the regular deck Commander cards completely). Nowadays the same suggestion is probably what Commander Collection Year 202X should be instead.pokken wrote: ↑3 years agoProbably the biggest thing that bothers me about this card is WoTC constantly printing niche cards only in commander decks that somehow never get foil treatments.It definitely makes me less likely to try this in Ephara.
Just to name a few. I wish they would make all-foil versions of the commander decks at a markup or something like the SLs. Even if they were much smaller and only included the unique cards - maybe a foil set of all the decks' unique cards.
When they first introduced Collector's Boosters and said Commander cards will be in them I had hope that's their way of foiling those cards, but nope, that got extinguished fast. Only Commander Legends Collector Boosters felt like what I would be happy opening packs as an EDH-only player nowadays.
On Scroll of Fate itself, while I clearly don't play it for the reason above, if I were to, it'll be definitely for Animar which already has morph. Nothing much else to say, honestly.
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folding_music glitter pen on my mana crypt
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Hmm, giggle, I've always treated Scroll of Fate as a subtle card that's an adjunct to stuff I like. A handsize shrinker, an innocent blocker generator. How do you learn to look at these cards and think "Blightsteel Colossus needed to be better"? =P
I didn't choose the Johnny life, the Johnny life chose mefolding_music wrote: ↑3 years agoHmm, giggle, I've always treated Scroll of Fate as a subtle card that's an adjunct to stuff I like. A handsize shrinker, an innocent blocker generator. How do you learn to look at these cards and think "Blightsteel Colossus needed to be better"? =P
ok but honestly my Marchesa deck already ran Qarsi High Priest and Sultai Emissary so I immediately knew this would be good. When I see a new card or a new mechanic I immediately think of ways it can be abused.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme