Help Wanted - Karlach, the Inspiring

[Boros_Blendo]

I like that I got a lot of good card suggestions for a Boros token matters deck featuring Karlach, Fury of Avernus and Inspiring Leader. The idea is to build my board, and then nuke theirs while I keep mine. The problem is that I literally have an extra 50 cards to trim to get to a final, testable list. Where I'm struggling is that card drawing, most of the indestructibility cards, and other useful cards are still not even accounted for. One of the ideas is cards like Chain Reaction, Blasphemous Act and Solar Blaze blowing up the board while saving my creatures with the indestructible cards so I don't need 8+ mana to do it. I still have cards that make my troops indestructible in the possibles section. I feel I can take out some of the token generators, but I also still have to fit in the card draw.

So, I'm throwing it open, hoping you have some good suggestions. I think the deck idea has promise, but I'm kind of stuck on what to cut, and what ratios I would want to have. Like, if I torch the board but save my own, how many of each. If I live by tokens, how many finishers like Purphoros or Moonshaker Cavalry would I keep. Given all the buff cards I found for Boros, what's the right ratio of buffs (keyword and +/+ buffs) to token generators. I can't count on Karlach being out all the time given it starts at 5, so I have to be functional in the 98. I can eventually whittle to 100 cards, but having the right ratios at the end to be playable is something I'm still working on for this. Open to any feedback that jumps out immediately at you. Probably a lot I'm straight-up missing here. Thanks!

Karlach, the Inspiring

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander 2

1 Karlach, Fury of Avernus

1 Inspiring Leader

Artifacts 7

1 Skullclamp

1 Sol Ring

1 Horn of Valhalla

1 Arcane Signet

1 Boros Signet

1 Fire Diamond

1 Marble Diamond

Creatures 28

1 Legion Loyalist

1 Regal Leosaur

1 Wildfire Awakener

1 Anax, Hardened in the Forge

1 Mirror Entity

1 Frontline Medic

1 Boromir, Warden of the Tower

1 General Ferrous Rokiric

1 Tajic, Legion's Edge

1 Heliod, God of the Sun

1 Iroas, God of Victory

1 Neyali, Sun's Vanguard

1 Blade Historian

1 Purphoros, God of the Forge

1 Firemane Avenger

1 Odric, Master Tactician

1 Fallaji Vanguard

1 Nobilis of War

1 Reverent Hoplite

1 Otharri, Sun's Glory

1 Riders of Rohan

1 Balefire Liege

1 Adriana, Captain of the Guard

1 Evangel of Heliod

1 Silverwing Squadron

1 Duke Ulder Ravengard

1 Moonshaker Cavalry

1 Angelic Guardian

Enchantments 10

1 Chained to the Rocks

1 Rise of the Hobgoblins

1 Flowering of the White Tree

1 Shared Animosity

1 Warleader's Call

1 Oblivion Ring

1 Banishing Light

1 Minimus Containment

1 Marshal's Anthem

1 Assemble the Legion

Instants 4

1 Boros Charm

1 Response//Resurgence

1 Flawless Maneuver

1 Chance for Glory

Sorceries 11

1 Forth Eorlingas!

1 Finale of Glory

1 Deafening Clarion

1 Solar Blaze

1 Chain Reaction

1 Increasing Devotion

1 Visions of Glory

1 Deploy to the Front

1 Devout Invocation

1 Descent of the Dragons

1 Blasphemous Act

Lands 38

1 Command Tower

1 Path of Ancestry

1 Sundown Pass

1 Furycalm Snarl

1 Sacred Foundry

1 Clifftop Retreat

1 Inspiring Vantage

1 Rugged Prairie

1 Boros Garrison

1 Spectator Seating

1 Sunscorched Divide

1 Minas Tirith

1 Mines of Moria

1 Hall

12 Plains

12 Mountain

Sideboard

1 Boros Strike-Captain

1 Aurelia's Fury

1 Campus Renovation

1 Commander Mustard

1 Craig Boone, Novac Guard

1 Deflecting Palm

1 Eowyn, Fearless Knight

1 Foundry Champion

1 Gleam of Battle

1 Glory of Warfare

1 Intimidation Bolt

1 Justice Strike

1 Lorehold Command

1 Meddling Youths

1 Outlaws' Merriment

1 Scourge of the Nobilis

1 Spark Trooper

1 Taunt From the Rampart

1 Take the Bait

1 War Flare

1 Warleader's Helix

1 Waves of Aggression

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

1 Akroma's Will

1 Gideon Blackblade

1 Heliod, Sun-Crowned

1 Hero of Goma Fada

1 Lena, Selfless Champion

1 Make a Stand

1 Unbreakable Formation

1 Armed with Proof

1 Dawn of a New Age

1 Dawn of Hope

1 Inheritance

1 Search the Premises

1 Smothering Tithe

1 Smuggler's Share

1 Thorough Investigation

1 Tocasia's Welcome

1 Trouble in Pairs

1 Wedding Announcement

1 Infiltration Lens

1 Combustible Gearhulk

1 Borrowed time

1 Consulate Crackdown

1 Grasp of Fate

1 Legion Loyalty

1 Seal From Existence

Approximate Total Cost:

[darrenhabib]

The average cost of your cards is about 4 mana, which means that until you get 8 mana sources you'll be only casting on average one spell each turn. Especially because you have quite a few X cards.
So when you say needs card drawing, currently this is not a problem as you'll always have cards in hand to deploy as your draw covers the tempo of your deck.
I guess this is my subtle way of saying that you need to lower the curve of this deck while also having more non-land mana sources or land ramp so that you can deploy more cards in a game, which does equate to more synergy.

It does seem that you are trying to do too many strategies and thus means that you do none of them very well.
I see a crazy amount of buff cards and feel that the going wide doesn't support this. Considering you have Inspiring Leader in the Command zone I would focus more on efficient token creature creation.

What's your budget? Do you have these cards already? I can make suggestions but some more info would help

[pokken]

The way I generally see the token strategy with Inspiring Leader and Karlach, Fury of Avernus working is →

* deploy a good sized board (enough to make people nervous but not usually to inspire a wipe)
* play a hasted karlach and the token pump in the same turn and instantly win with double combats

Letting Karlach sit out in the breeze with a good board state is just asking to get swept up by someone else's sweeper.

So to do that, you need:
* lots of ways to make tokens
* lots of things that give haste

In Boros, your routes to getting haste are generally team haste with effects like Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded or Fervor, or an equipment package with Stoneforge Mystic.

My feeling is that Stoneforge Mystic package with Lightning Greaves and Skullclamp suits this strategy better than team haste enablers; and you really are only concerned with giving Karlach, Fury of Avernus haste.

Additionally, an equipment subtheme is resilient to board wipes and has a bit of token synergy (e.g. with living weapon cards like Hexplate Wallbreaker and Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus).

(Karlach not needing to attack changes this advice; I'd still probably run ramp equipment like Bitterthorn, Nissa's Animus and Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale since they have a strong synergy with having token bodies available)

So if i were drafting this deck I would go deep on:
* tokens
* token draw enablers (Skullclamp, Bygone Bishop, Welcoming Vampire etc.)
* equipment theme to accrue value from tokens pre-Karlach explosion (e.g. stuff like Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale or Sword of Fire and Ice or whatever)

You can think of Karlach + Inspiring Leader as Craterhoof Behemoth in the command zone I think. So I would not play any of the Moonshaker Cavalry type effects personally. You need to focus on making lots of tokens and drawing cards I think, since your commander does neither of those things.

--

I would abandon the wipe+indestructible as a primary gameplan personally. That's not really synergistic with your commander, that's more of a Tajic, Blade of the Legion or Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero concept.

--

Probably the toughest thing to do in this deck is figure out what you want to use as token producers. I think I would aim for a mix of enchantments and planeswalkers personally, possibly with a few bomb spells like White Sun's Zenith or Secure the Wastes (think there're a few new ones too).

Planeswalkers that generate tokens can be very good in commander in my experience, with Elspeth, Sun's Champion being the one I have had the most success with personally. But in Boros there should be quite a lot of them to choose from. I'd look for ones that generate wipes too, I think here's a Chandra that can sweep the board decently.

Because you have an enchantment in the command zone, going full on enchantments with a Serra's Sanctum / Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx approach would be another angle I would consider. running Heliod, God of the Sun type stuff.

If I were building this deck, that is likely how I would approach it I think; play a bunch of token producing enchantments, guys who accrue value and mana off enchantments, and then use Karlach and inspiring leader as a finisher.

Stuff like Assemble the Legion is potentially really good in this strategy if you ramp hard enough.

If you go that route you might want to think about using enchantments for haste, since they can fuel Serra's Sanctum or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (depending on pips).

--

Hope some of that helps

[MAGUSZANIN]

First, I will note that you don't need to attack with Karlach specifically for her extra combat to trigger, so all giving her Haste does is add 5 commander damage to the attack. Thus, while I think a small equipment package is a reasonable direction to take for other reasons, I wouldn't go all in on worrying about finding Boots every game. Having 5ish equipment you will always be happy to see and a couple tutors to help find them is fine.

Second, hard agreed on taking the curve down a bit and adding additional Ramp spells. Even if you add zero extra card draw to the deck, your commander is almost certainly going to get removed at the beginning of combat to prevent her trigger at least once, meaning that you need to be budgeting to cast her for 7 Mana in practice. Even setting aside your vulnerability to boardwipes, which makes this issue significantly worse.

Third, I see a couple more Extra Combat steps spells in the deck. While I don't mind some of those if they have other uses, you have that effect in the Command Zone and so I would cut those first, since they are universally expensive mana wise and are taking up valuable slots. Waves of Aggression in particular seems win more. At least Response/Resurgence is removal.

Four, I count 4 Boardwipes in the basic list, none of which are really good for you. I would cut that down to 2 slots, probably Blasphemous Act as a hard wipe that you can occasionally cast alongside an indestructible "save your board" card, and then maybe Hour of Reckoning? You can easily cast either of those proactively on turns 4-5-6 (ie, before Karlach comes down, but after everyone else has committed real numbers of cards to the board) to catapult you ahead. Ideally that puts you into a strong position to outright win with your Anthems+2 Combats on the following turn, or at least eliminate 2/3 players, prioritizing whoever has the highest odds of having a boardwipe for player removal.

And finally last but not least, is there a reason you are avoiding Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares? Instant speed puts them way above a lot of your current removal suite, and they would single handedly lower your total mana value by like 4 between the two of them. Even if you want the increased versatility to hit multiple permanent types, Banishing Light and Borrowed Time are not where you want to be. You have no synergies with those cards even. Grasp of Fate is better because it's at least a blocker removed from each opponent for the turn at worst, but Consulate Crackdown is basically a hate card that is taking up space. Unless the opponent has Crawlspace or something equally annoying in play, what Artifacts do you even care about? And even if you good answers to that question (is your meta playing a lot of that kind of card?) you could get more bang for your mana with Vandalblast.

[pokken]

First, I will note that you don't need to attack with Karlach specifically for her extra combat to trigger, so all giving her Haste does is add 5 commander damage to the attack. Thus, while I think a small equipment package is a reasonable direction to take for other reasons, I wouldn't go all in on worrying about finding Boots every game. Having 5ish equipment you will always be happy to see and a couple tutors to help find them is fine.

Wow that's even better, skip all the equipment and just drop her like a bomb.

No idea how I misread that :D Thanks for the correction

[ISBPathfinder]

I think you have too many cards to make your attackers better. I would want to see a lot more creatures that attack and on attack spawn attacking tokens personally. Your commander gives multiple combats and the other buffs tokens so on attack spawn token is probably like everything I would be looking for.

I am thinking along the lines of:

• Hero of Bladehold
• Brimaz, King of Oreskos
• Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon
• Goblin Rabblemaster
• Hanweir Garrison
• Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin
• Legion Warboss

I just think these type of creatures fit a lot of what you are looking to do. Two combats on your turn doubles the token output of these and you are buffing tokens. I could see keeping some of the things to keep them alive like Reconnaissance but I think you probably have too many buffs in your list that aren't your commanders.

I could also see a long term stretch goal of running Field of the Dead here. To include it though I think you have too many basics so I would try to lower your basic count down and then whatever basics you have you would split them with snow basics assuming you do go for this.

[Boros_Blendo]

First off to everyone who responded, thank you. I have some reactions, though there is far too much to cover in one response, and I'll be thinking a lot about the advice. I appreciate the time you took.

The average cost of your cards is about 4 mana, which means that until you get 8 mana sources you'll be only casting on average one spell each turn. Especially because you have quite a few X cards.

I've seen a lot about average cost on this site and Commander reviews on other sites, but I've never been competitive enough to pay attention to such metrics and study them, so I'm a bit behind. I'm guessing from what I've seen that it's about the tempo of playing 2+ cards per turn to then jam your hand with more cards and out-steam the other guy?

You can think of Karlach + Inspiring Leader as Craterhoof Behemoth in the command zone I think. So I would not play any of the Moonshaker Cavalry type effects personally. You need to focus on making lots of tokens and drawing cards I think, since your commander does neither of those things.

What I am curious about is if I do that and limit the other buff cards in the 98, it's putting all the eggs in the basket that a counterspell or STP doesn't take out my entire enchilada for turns. Purphoros and Descent of the Dragons are not ever going to be anything but useful if Karlach is taken out. You could make the same argument that the cavalry is no different than swinging as soon as Karlach comes out. So, I guess I'm still not fully understanding the "cavalry in the command zone" concept. I understand that is amazing, yes, it just isn't going to work that way every game, as much as I would like it to be! Hence me having backup plans to my backup plans. I'll tone some of that down.

Second, hard agreed on taking the curve down a bit and adding additional Ramp spells. Even if you add zero extra card draw to the deck, your commander is almost certainly going to get removed at the beginning of combat to prevent her trigger at least once, meaning that you need to be budgeting to cast her for 7 Mana in practice. Even setting aside your vulnerability to boardwipes, which makes this issue significantly worse.

Third, I see a couple more Extra Combat steps spells in the deck. While I don't mind some of those if they have other uses, you have that effect in the Command Zone and so I would cut those first, since they are universally expensive mana wise and are taking up valuable slots. Waves of Aggression in particular seems win more. At least Response/Resurgence is removal.

Four, I count 4 Boardwipes in the basic list, none of which are really good for you. I would cut that down to 2 slots, probably Blasphemous Act as a hard wipe that you can occasionally cast alongside an indestructible "save your board" card, and then maybe Hour of Reckoning?

And finally last but not least, is there a reason you are avoiding Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares?

All fair. The extra combat spells seems similar to Pokken's feedback on extra buffs or haymakers like the cavalry. Yes, some of that is expensive and Boros isn't as great at ramp as green so it won't kill me to drop the higher cost stuff at all. A Mirror Entity with ramp can be just as effective as Karlach even with but one attack on a turn. The entity is so much deal-with-immediately or lose, I've constantly played with it since Lorwyn. I will probably add back in Hour of Reckoning and Martial Coup, both were in the original draft but took them out with the other Boros creatures being in here heavily. If I go more toward tokens, and less toward other non-token-based Boros stuff, then both become a lot stronger if I'm not also trying to make my stuff indestructible.

I think you have too many cards to make your attackers better. I would want to see a lot more creatures that attack and on attack spawn attacking tokens personally. Your commander gives multiple combats and the other buffs tokens so on attack spawn token is probably like everything I would be looking for.

I am thinking along the lines of:

• Hero of Bladehold
• Brimaz, King of Oreskos
• Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon
• Goblin Rabblemaster
• Hanweir Garrison
• Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin
• Legion Warboss

I just think these type of creatures fit a lot of what you are looking to do. Two combats on your turn doubles the token output of these and you are buffing tokens. I could see keeping some of the things to keep them alive like Reconnaissance but I think you probably have too many buffs in your list that aren't your commanders.

Thank you. I had put the Duke Ulder Ravengard and Silverwing Squadron in the list as a "duo" for that exact reason, and I will happily jam more in there even when some are legendary. With 40,000+ cards and a decklist at 150+ already, I kind of stopped searching to dial-a-lifeline. I notice how low cost they are, which helps to let me hold the x-spells till later when I have the mana to get more value from them.

[ISBPathfinder]

Oh, toss Loyal Apprentice onto the pile of potentials too.

[Boros_Blendo]

What's your budget? Do you have these cards already? I can make suggestions but some more info would help

Oh, forgot to answer this question. Not looking more than about $300 total landed costs, so Serra's Sanctum is automatically out. Lol. And I do have some, but a lot of it I do not own at this time. What I do have is what's left over from busting a different token matters deck.

[MAGUSZANIN]

Oh, forgot to answer this question. Not looking more than about $300 total landed costs, so Serra's Sanctum is automatically out. Lol. And I do have some, but a lot of it I do not own at this time. What I do have is what's left over from busting a different token matters deck.

As I told you before, the Rebellion Rising Precon is full of pieces for a deck like this. And that precon only costs ~30-35USD. Clever Concealment alone is about 13USD of that and the deck has some other pricey cards on your list like Boros Charm (~5 USD) or should be considered like Flawless Maneuver (~9USD). The rest of the deck is bulk but mostly playable in this list like Call the Coppercoats and Path to Exile.

[darrenhabib]

I've seen a lot about average cost on this site and Commander reviews on other sites, but I've never been competitive enough to pay attention to such metrics and study them, so I'm a bit behind. I'm guessing from what I've seen that it's about the tempo of playing 2+ cards per turn to then jam your hand with more cards and out-steam the other guy?

Yes tempo is a huge part of being able to win games. I know you are playing casual, but to give an example often high level competitive games are over by turn 5. Your deck might have cast 4 spells that entire game and you see how that just wouldn't have any chance of keeping up with the pace of play. Having said that you are playing casual so it doesn't need to be this drastic, but you do want to be able to deploy cards in a timely way.
White has some good options for land ramp. Artifact mana is good as well, but if the people you play against play a lot of boardwipes (like you seem to be worried about) then land ramp is safer option.
At the moment you have; Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, Boros Signet, Fire Diamond, Marble Diamond as you mana ramp.
I would try adding Knight of the White Orchid, Loyal Warhound, Talisman of Conviction, Fellwar Stone, Wayfarer's Bauble. Also Path to Exile is excellent with tokens as you can target your own for the extra land.
Then I'd actually cut Fire Diamond and Marble Diamond.

The strategy of using boardwipes yourself while trying to save them with indestructible spells doesn't really seem necessary or good.
Think of yourself as the aggressor and its really going to need to be opponents that deal with you, rather than you dealing with them.
Sure still play cards like Boros Charm and Flawless Maneuver to protected your board, but the plan shouldn't be use them with your own spells.

[pokken]

What I am curious about is if I do that and limit the other buff cards in the 98, it's putting all the eggs in the basket that a counterspell or STP doesn't take out my entire enchilada for turns. Purphoros and Descent of the Dragons are not ever going to be anything but useful if Karlach is taken out. You could make the same argument that the cavalry is no different than swinging as soon as Karlach comes out. So, I guess I'm still not fully understanding the "cavalry in the command zone" concept. I understand that is amazing, yes, it just isn't going to work that way every game, as much as I would like it to be! Hence me having backup plans to my backup plans. I'll tone some of that down.

And this is just my opinion, but the penalty you pay for drawing Moonshaker Cavalry and having it do jack crap early in the game is not worth it. You're better off playing your own countermagic to protect karlach, since it can also protect your other things (e.g. card advantage engines). Boros has a very strong interaction package these days between Wyll's Reversal / Tibalt's Trickery // Clever Concealment type stuff

Guardian of Faith is another great one that works with tokens.

--
As a compact wincon in a token deck, Purphoros, God of the Forge is pretty spectacular for sure. It's cheap manawise, it does damage, it has a useful mana sink ability. I like Purph a lot here. So I'd keep that, since it can significantly shorten the Karlach clock (especially if you are making tokens on attack and taking two attack steps, potentially).

(off budget)
If you're willing to dip your toes into fetchlands, the Brought Back / Cosmic Intervention package works for protecting Karlach as well as ramping, but it's a big commitment $$ :D