Naban - Wizard Beats

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Naban - Wizard Fight Club

Naban.EDHREC-1.jpg

I am actually a big fan of mono blue, I just hate how they win. So, when I get crazy ideas involving blue in combat I get intrigued. I started down this path when I stumbled on Segrus making a wizard mill deck with Neban and started digging into what the wizard options were. From there I started wondering if I could win via combat damage which honestly I wasn't sure. After a bunch of testing it does seem quite viable. The only real issue is that a lot of times it can push out enough power to kill like.... a player but then it leaves it a little over extended. It makes it a little harder for multiplayer games with more players to it.

Rules about fight clu... Goals:

  • Avoid combos
  • Win via combat
  • Don't die
Decklist

COMMANDER (1)


ENCHANTMENT (1)


Approximate Total Cost:

Last edited by ISBPathfinder 10 months ago, edited 33 times in total.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

I like it!

I always thought Profaner of the Dead was underplayed, at least in wizard tribal. Great card.

Have you thought about running something like Peregrine Drake to go alongside Archaeomancer/Salvager of Secrets + Ghostly Flicker/Displace/Illusionist's Stratagem? I know infinite mana loops aren't everyone's cup of tea, but it's there for anyone who wants it. I guess Palinchron would be the real spiky combo piece to throw in there for that.

I know you're fairly heavy on utility lands, but imo it seems a shame to not run High Tide in mono blue. I'd love to hear your rationale there.

For "anthems" that wouldn't lower your wizard count, you could consider Metallic Mimic and Adaptive Automaton. Mimic seems especially good with Naban, Dean of Iteration and Panharmonicon.
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

I like how two Naban decks were posted next to each other when I checked just now. :)

Anthems - How about Naru Meha, Master Wizard and Obelisk of Urd? Naru is an appropriately typed anthem on legs for a small boost, and the Obelisk should come down for cheap considering the creature count and game plan. Also, Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor provides tokens and filtering to further your plan.

Enemy Tokens - Portal Mage, Echoing Truth, and Inundate could all help. Alternatively, and / or in addition, you could go with -X/-0 effects, though I don't have any off the top of my head to suggest.

Draw - You're going with the simple "ETB, draw one" wizards. Thoughts on Bazaar Trademage over one of those guys?
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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote: Anthems - How about Naru Meha, Master Wizard and Obelisk of Urd? Naru is an appropriately typed anthem on legs for a small boost, and the Obelisk should come down for cheap considering the creature count and game plan. Also, Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor provides tokens and filtering to further your plan.
As soon as you mentioned Kasmina tokens, Docent of Perfection came to mind. I can't believe I didn't think of it before. Seems like a great fit: token production, an anthem that includes evasion, and it will almost always only require 1 instant/sorcery to flip in this deck.
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Post by Segrus » 1 year ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
For "anthems" that wouldn't lower your wizard count, you could consider Metallic Mimic and Adaptive Automaton. Mimic seems especially good with Naban, Dean of Iteration and Panharmonicon.
Mimic's +1/+1 counter effect doesn't get doubled with Naban and Panharmonicon, because the effect isn't a triggered ability. It's a replacement effect. They still work great as anthem effects though.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
So, my goal here was a mono blue wizard ETB deck that wins via combat or zeroing opponent HP. I think I probably still need to add some more buffs to get there but I am not sure between equipment or going for some sort of Coat of Arms. My concern offhand with Coat of Arms being token decks and how I don't really have much for answers to them here.
Instead of Coat of Arms, there's always Akroma's Memorial. Not actually an anthem effect, but would still likely get the job done.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

Segrus wrote:
1 year ago
Mimic's +1/+1 counter effect doesn't get doubled with Naban and Panharmonicon, because the effect isn't a triggered ability. It's a replacement effect. They still work great as anthem effects though.
Hmmm. I thought ETB effects counted as triggered abilities. This game and it's rules, I tell ya.
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Post by Segrus » 1 year ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
Segrus wrote:
1 year ago
Mimic's +1/+1 counter effect doesn't get doubled with Naban and Panharmonicon, because the effect isn't a triggered ability. It's a replacement effect. They still work great as anthem effects though.
Hmmm. I thought ETB effects counted as triggered abilities. This game and it's rules, I tell ya.
ETB effects are triggered abilities, but this isn't an ETB effect. Triggered stuff has to use one of the words "when," "whenever," and/or "at." If Mimic's ability was a triggered ability, it would have a template like:

"Whenever a creature with the chosen creature type enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on it."

As it is, Mimic only modifies how a creature enters the battlefield--no triggered ability (kinda like Clone's ability modifies how it enters, or Essence of the Wild). It's admittedly a little weird.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
I like it!

I always thought Profaner of the Dead was underplayed, at least in wizard tribal. Great card.

Have you thought about running something like Peregrine Drake to go alongside Archaeomancer/Salvager of Secrets + Ghostly Flicker/Displace/Illusionist's Stratagem? I know infinite mana loops aren't everyone's cup of tea, but it's there for anyone who wants it. I guess Palinchron would be the real spiky combo piece to throw in there for that.

I know you're fairly heavy on utility lands, but imo it seems a shame to not run High Tide in mono blue. I'd love to hear your rationale there.

For "anthems" that wouldn't lower your wizard count, you could consider Metallic Mimic and Adaptive Automaton. Mimic seems especially good with Naban, Dean of Iteration and Panharmonicon.
Profaner of the Dead - Its tricky since its a tempo effect but I really don't have that much for things in my list currently to deter token tactics so I think from the standpoint of being a wizard and screwing with tokens it seems like it should be fine. Its an effect I have always liked in concept but often ended up cutting in other places. Being that I have a wizard tutor and this effect is sort of unique on wizards I think I want to at least get to the point of testing it.

Peregrine Drake - I did think about it, some of what was holding me back though is that is somewhat off theme not to mention lots of the flicker effects are either one shot effects, end of turn effects, or I am going infinite with them. I don't really want to go infinite (in that I really don't want to). Outside of infinites it felt a bit weaker to me to run.

High Tide outside of infinites I have always viewed it as sort of a mix between Mana Geyser and Dark Ritual in that its not really an upfront mana but like, give me a bunch of mana when I already have access to a bit. In my mind, that burst of mana is useful for comboing off and some X mana stuff but otherwise I am not a big fan of it when running a reasonable curve.

Metallic Mimic and Adaptive Automaton - I considered both but I haven't had very good experience with either in commander. I almost pulled the trigger on Brass Herald until I realized it didn't become a wizard and thus would only single trigger. I would actually love to see an updated Brass Herald to take on said templating. I feel like a strict upgrade of taking the creature type really wouldn't be that much to ask. Like others have mentioned the lack of ETB interaction on them is sort of why I held off.
Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
I like how two Naban decks were posted next to each other when I checked just now. :)

Anthems - How about Naru Meha, Master Wizard and Obelisk of Urd? Naru is an appropriately typed anthem on legs for a small boost, and the Obelisk should come down for cheap considering the creature count and game plan. Also, Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor provides tokens and filtering to further your plan.

Enemy Tokens - Portal Mage, Echoing Truth, and Inundate could all help. Alternatively, and / or in addition, you could go with -X/-0 effects, though I don't have any off the top of my head to suggest.

Draw - You're going with the simple "ETB, draw one" wizards. Thoughts on Bazaar Trademage over one of those guys?
I actually took a look at Segrus' list and it got me thinking about how I would build it and then I was off to building lol.

Naru Meha, Master Wizard - Hu, I overlooked the fact that he buffs wizards. I cut him originally because I don't have that many spells and casting a spell plus his four mana on top felt a little heavy handed. The fact that he goes infinite with so many of the spells also wasn't a plus in my mind. More or less, he goes infinite or does nothing with almost all of the spells I run. Copying a counterspell is going to be very narrow and all of the token copy / flicker effects go infinite with him. I think I am going to omit him given this. Its true that he is a wizard and he does anthem but with me not wanting to go infinite he is like a flash Adaptive Automaton given that I don't really want to go infinite.

Obelisk of Urd I think its a very reasonable card to consider. I probably like it a little more than Coat of Arms just due to the concern of not having evasion often with wizards not to mention my token defenses aren't exactly stellar. I am not sure how many pump effects I want to run starting out but I think its probably among the ones I will consider as I go up in count.

Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor - I totally forget about the War walkers all the time. I think its still probably a little weak even though its two wizards, they don't do anything and you get a fragile walker that you need to protect for a turn to even get the second one. Most of the wizards we are running already because they double ETB and then I am left with bodies that can do things. Getting wizards with no effects on them seems a bit questionable I guess.

Portal Mage, Echoing Truth, and Inundate - I looked at Echoing Truth and Inundate. Right now I guess I just need to test with the deck before I really felt like I had the knowledge to cut into the core of what I was doing. Lots of tempo stuff can also backfire if you don't have pressure to follow it up and I wasn't sure that I had that which is part of why I cut a bit more of it out. In all reality I probably should cut more of the counters out for more pump effects and just focus first and foremost on being a wizard focused deck rather than being a blue deck.

Bazaar Trademage - I own an actual Bazaar so I have some experience with the effect. In my experience, you generally want it more when you care about your graveyard. Card disadvantage can be a bit of a bear especially stacking two of them together while not really caring about my graveyard that much. I get the whole selection thing but my issue comes from the fact that I end up with -2 cards in hand after casting a card from my hand that kind of doesn't do much itself. So..... -3 cards in hand for some selection and a bad stick. If you have things like Land Tax these effects get better as well but right now, I just don't really see incentive to be using card disadvantage to fill my graveyard in mono blue. I tend to like it a lot more in black and white decks. It also makes more sense if you focus on combo wins because then you value the selection of cards a lot more.
MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
Sanity_Eclipse wrote: Anthems - How about Naru Meha, Master Wizard and Obelisk of Urd? Naru is an appropriately typed anthem on legs for a small boost, and the Obelisk should come down for cheap considering the creature count and game plan. Also, Kasmina, Enigmatic Mentor provides tokens and filtering to further your plan.
As soon as you mentioned Kasmina tokens, Docent of Perfection came to mind. I can't believe I didn't think of it before. Seems like a great fit: token production, an anthem that includes evasion, and it will almost always only require 1 instant/sorcery to flip in this deck.
Ohhh wow I didn't even think of that. I guess the only concern would be that you need to cast a spell to flip it but otherwise I like it. I definitely need to test that out.
Segrus wrote:
1 year ago
MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
For "anthems" that wouldn't lower your wizard count, you could consider Metallic Mimic and Adaptive Automaton. Mimic seems especially good with Naban, Dean of Iteration and Panharmonicon.
Mimic's +1/+1 counter effect doesn't get doubled with Naban and Panharmonicon, because the effect isn't a triggered ability. It's a replacement effect. They still work great as anthem effects though.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
So, my goal here was a mono blue wizard ETB deck that wins via combat or zeroing opponent HP. I think I probably still need to add some more buffs to get there but I am not sure between equipment or going for some sort of Coat of Arms. My concern offhand with Coat of Arms being token decks and how I don't really have much for answers to them here.
Instead of Coat of Arms, there's always Akroma's Memorial. Not actually an anthem effect, but would still likely get the job done.
Akroma's Memorial its also in my stack of potential buffs that could be tested. Its a little concerning from the standpoint that it adds no stats to them but mass evasion does help get them in and its strong defensively as well as against some red sweepers.

DECK CHANGE:
  • SkullclampDocent of Perfection looking back a bunch of my wizards don't die to clamp going on them not to mention I lack sac outlets. I was trying to bolster Trinket Mage targets but I think I went too far with that. I also have fairly good draw in the wizards and what I want is some finishers.
  • Vedalken PlotterBrainstorm I felt like I wanted to push Brainstorm back into the list after adding Docent to the list. I fought with where to add it for a bit but a cheap cantrip is often still a strong effect and the Plotter felt a bit situational still.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by kenbaumann » 1 year ago

Kindred Discovery is great for card draw and ETB triggers. Strionic Resonator is good to double up on those impactful ETBs.

My current cEDH Urza deck began its life as a mono-blue Naban Wizards deck, so I've got a great warmth in my heart for this kind of build.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

kenbaumann wrote:
1 year ago
Kindred Discovery is great for card draw and ETB triggers. Strionic Resonator is good to double up on those impactful ETBs.

My current cEDH Urza deck began its life as a mono-blue Naban Wizards deck, so I've got a great warmth in my heart for this kind of build.
I considered Kindred Discovery but I don't feel like card draw is really a weakness of this build. I like it a lot more in a deck that is putting tokens in especially one that might have evasion on the creatures. The wizards are going to struggle to go sideways so I felt like putting the card draw on the wizards entering and then focusing more on letting them be in combat was better. I get that there is still the ETB of wizards where you draw with this card but its also a 5 mana do nothing immediate enchantment. I think its a lot better when you can slam it in and immediately turn sideways profitably. I run it in my Sai deck for instance which is how it works for that deck.

I just think it loses out on a lot being that this tribe doesn't swarm as well and is more fragile in combat. Its going to end up being a bit slower and rely on being there for a few turns after landing it which I am not as keen on. This is going to have a big red flag for opponents so I prefer to play it more when I expect immediate returns rather than over time returns from it.



Anyways, I put together what I could find in my collection and was pleasantly surprised that I had almost all of the cards for this list. I did a bit more thinking about a few different concepts that I was going for in this list and decided on a few more changes as I go to put in an order for what I am missing.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Sigil TracerPhantasmal Image I decided that a wizard that doesn't do anything entering and needs mana up as well as targets to put that mana towards felt SUPER slow. I think Tracer is a cool card but I think I like it more in a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir commander list which is where I had some past experience with it. I felt like the low cost of the image plus being able to copy other good wizards was a good reason to run the image.
  • Gurmag DrownerForce of Negation The more I looked at it, the worse these Extort effects kind of feel to me. I feel like the mass bounce of Profaner of the Dead maybe still gets the nod from me given that its an answer to tokens when I have so few of them but this one felt like I just couldn't bring myself to actually run it. Playing last night with some other decks I just felt like I needed more emergency counters at all time so, here is more of those. I have been playing against more combo of late with some of the newer people.
  • Solemn SimulacrumUrza's Incubator I like Solemn and its a good ETB, that said, I think the Incubator actually just does a lot more for me in chaining wizards together. I have a lot of wizards and a lot of them cost reduce really nicely with this. I am also cutting Panharmonicon from my list given that I felt like cloning my commander made more sense which kind of made Solemn also the tiniest bit worse.
  • PanharmoniconSpark Double I was giving it some thought and if my plan is to turn sideways at people then it maybe makes more sense to non legend clone my commander than it does Panharmonicon. I was also thinking about it and the versatility of clones can be big where as Panharmonicon does just one thing. Essentially I don't have other ETB effects at this point either that aren't wizards so the only thing that Pan would do for me that another copy of my commander wouldn't would be if I clone a non wizard or if my commander becomes hard to cast due to repeat casting (which seems hard for a 2 drop). I might consider Sakashima the Impostor in the future as well depending on how Spark Double does for me. I figured bringing just one in for now at least gets me to the point where I can do some testing though.
  • Whir of InventionForce of Will I wanted more emergency no buttons. I think Whir is a great card and I do have some nice targets for it. That said, I didn't think it was as necessary as a few more ways to throw wrenches at combo players.
  • Karn's Temporal SunderingArchetype of Imagination I felt like I wanted a little more evasion. It should be more or less unblockable when I drop Archetype and the fact that its a wizard opens Vedalken Aethermage up to getting me some sort of anthem / evasion. I don't love the Archetype but I felt like there were reasons for and against a lot of the things I was considering for this spot.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

So, I managed to sleeve up and play 2 games of commander last night. The first was a 5 player FFA and the second was a 3 player. In the first game I spun my wheels drawing cards and moving wizards until I end of turn flashed in Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir followed by Master of Waves making 22 tokens after doubling with my commander. On my turn I 2x cloned him and crushed my remaining opponents.

Game two was very close and I probably should have won it. I took second very narrowly after having screwed up some things with Opposition defense. I did get some good playtesting in on this game figuring out several things that weren't working and it was very noticeable that I needed a bit more ramp.



In both games, it felt like I was a little slow to spin up. I felt like I needed more ramp and that I was mana choked. Several cards felt winmore while my commander + wizards seemed like it was plenty of value. Its possible I could use a touch more interaction or defensive options but for now I am going to jam some ramp and disruption and cut some of the things requiring me to be set up first to do.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Spark DoubleTrophy Mage I don't have a ton of targets for Trophy but Urza's Incubator is sooooooo good. I am adding Sword of Feast and Famine as well in part to bolster targets for him but also I think that card probably is fine. I tried Spark Double out and man it felt slow winmore. If I saw more cases of opponents playing goodstuff creatures like Solemn Simulacrum or something I would feel better about the clones but I just wasn't feeling it.
  • Archetype of ImaginationVendilion Clique Trying to lower my curve a little. I also think that Clique could be useful against some of the combo decks I have seen lately. Even hitting myself with Clique can help me move cards around while having some flying action.
  • Expedition MapCapture of Jingzhou Map felt too slow. I think the "ideal" play is to get Nykthos or Field of the Dead. It just felt too slow at either of those offhand. Capture cantrips and lets me hit another land to play not to mention the potential of extra combat steps.
  • Cloudstone CurioSword of Feast and Famine I managed to play Naban, Currio, Spark Double on curve last night game 2 and I never once had the resources to utilize the Curio. I think I just need more resources instead. I wanted to keep my targets for Trophy Mage up.
  • Arcane SignetThought Vessel I just found myself discarding to hand size a bit too much. I think I maybe still want the signet in but I think for now I want a little more no max hand size options first.
  • Door of DestiniesTemporal Manipulation I game two had Door essentially on curve but I couldn't ever find the time to pay 4 mana and do nothing on my turns. I think it takes too long to spin up and it needs to be played a few turns before it really has impact on the board. Extra turns should help me hit more land drops and give a few extra options to hit in combat.
  • Conjurer's ClosetGilded Lotus I think Conjurer's is just a touch slow. I did kind of like Thassa, Deep-Dwelling yesterday when I saw her but she costs less, has an activated ability, and turns into a beater which all add up to her doing just a lot more for me. I like that Gilded is only -2 mana the turn it is played but its a big boost moving forward. The fact that its colored mana is also something that I value from the standpoint of playing it and then holding up counter magic or play another wizard after it.
  • DisplaceSerum Visions I felt like the 2 creature bounce effects were too slow to spin up. Too often I didn't have two targets or the mana to do it felt clunky. I think I still like Essence Flux for being cheaper plus feeling like it opens up my Spellseeker targets. I had been meaning to add Serum to the list just being a cheap cantrip with selection to it.
  • Ghostly FlickerHeraldic Banner Same as above, cutting the 2 target flickers. I wanted more mana rocks and I think the benefit of being reasonable to cast, producing colored mana, and buffing my wizards attack power is what I maybe want. Its probably worth some testing at least.
  • Illusionist's StratagemTime Warp Same as above with cutting the 2 target flickers. Time Warp costs one more mana but it seems like it has a lot more to offer. I think the floor on the 2 target flickers was higher than I expected where as the floor on extra turns is much lower.
  • QuasiduplicateInundate Cutting into my clones a little. Being that this one is a sorcery while being cool with the jump start still makes it a little weirder. I felt like I could use some mass bounce for token tactics and it clears me up for hitting people which is cool.
  • Salvager of SecretsBaral's Expertise I think, a lot of my spells got more expensive moving to extra turns. This wizard and Archaeomancer probably got a little worse with some of the more expensive spells being added. They were a bit better with cheaper spells. I will keep Archaeomancer for now but its at least something I am watching for the time being. I like the tempo of Baral's and the fact that I can use it to psudo flicker a 4 or less mana wizard is kind of cool.
  • Oboro, Palace in the CloudsCavern of Souls I did actually have someone counter an important Venser, Shaper Savant yesterday. I do own a number of caverns so its probably fine to bring one in.
  • Tolaria WestPath of Ancestry I think that I probably won't be transmuting west for the same reasons I wasn't really enjoying Expidition Map. Path could be handy with some of the card drawing wizards getting a little pre selection.
  • Thespian's StageSeat of the Synod my own utility lands haven't seemed that big. Stage as an extra Field of the Dead might be a thing but given I haven't seen Field yet I think I will instead give a small nod to Trinket Mage and his dwindling artifact package. I considered Darksteel Citadel in this spot but after playing the list a bit its very noticeable how blue heavy a lot of this deck is. I often avoid these colored artifact lands because of their ability to be removed by mass artifact shatter effects but I haven't seen as much of that lately. If it gives me issues I guess I can always change it.
With these changes, Eternal Skylord and Archaeomancer went on my watchlist. I haven't actually drawn either of these cards yet to my knowledge but both of them seemed better with flickers and more clones (which I just heavily cut). Its something for me to watch out for in the future. I also could see adding another 1-2 mana interacts with the board spell for Spellseeker given that it feels like I could maybe use a Pongify or something possibly.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by Segrus » 1 year ago

Nice with those games! Seems like the build is really working out for you. I like the idea of mill still, but the more I look at it the more I'm really tempted to go the route you're going with Naban. I got a game in with the mill build and got in a lot of plays, but there was another control deck at the table with a Nexus of Fate win condition in their deck...so no real hope of winning ultimately. I did mill out one of my two opponents in that game though.

I like the changes you've listed and I'll be keeping an eye out to see how it works out for you.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Segrus wrote:
1 year ago
Nice with those games! Seems like the build is really working out for you. I like the idea of mill still, but the more I look at it the more I'm really tempted to go the route you're going with Naban. I got a game in with the mill build and got in a lot of plays, but there was another control deck at the table with a Nexus of Fate win condition in their deck...so no real hope of winning ultimately. I did mill out one of my two opponents in that game though.

I like the changes you've listed and I'll be keeping an eye out to see how it works out for you.
Yea I have been having a lot of fun with it so far. I have been doing a little poking and testing 1v1 with someone in town but trying not to focus too much on the results there given that neither of us are building for 1v1 games. I did get to flip a Docent of Perfection in one of these 1v1 games though and it was amazing as I swung in for like 20 with chaff wizards.

Yea, mill can be very tricky. I played with a few mill commanders in the past and I always found it to be incredibly important to be heavy on graveyard hate when I was playing with mill.

I have been toying with a few ideas right now so I guess I can outline a few of the things I am kicking around.
  • Savor the Moment - More ramp sounds great. Its sort of like a compromise between Wayfarer's Bauble and Solemn Simulacrum. What I like about it though is that it fits my curve being that on two I probably want to cast my commander. It also cantrips and lets me play another land. Bauble misses in a lot of ways given that I play my commander on two almost every time and solemn feels like he is just one more mana for no real reason.
  • Wash Out - Its nice that it hits enchantments and multicolored permanents nicely. I am not actually sure if Inundate is better than this and the lower cost / less mana color intensity of Wash Out are all fairly appealing. The fact that Wash Out also hits multicolored blue commanders is kind of a thing for me too assuming I am hitting one of their other colors.
  • Talrand, Sky Summoner / Murmuring Mystic I have been kicking around the idea of adding these to my list. Some of my biggest concerns being that they are 4 mana creatures with no ETB. The option to cast them and then cast a cheap cantrip could happen but I also don't have a ton of that stuff in my list. I added 5 mana turns to my list lately and it could feel slow to cast one of these and wait until next turn to use them.
  • Thassa, God of the Sea she is cheap to cast, I think I could animate her fairly easily, and the scry each turn seems fine on top of a big body for attacking / defending.
  • Echoing Truth I like that Spellseeker can find it and it gives me some defense vs tokens that can still interact with kind of anything in a pinch. I guess offhand interacting with tokens or a combo are the two things that stand out the most but like, I think that might still be fine for this list. Its a tempo stall card that helps a lot from being swarmed.
  • Everflowing Chalice / Chrome Mox / Mox Diamond / Springleaf Drum another target for Trinket Mage could possibly be handy. I am not really sure yet how I stand on the card disadvantage moxen. The Chalice could be ok as a scaling ramp option but I am also not sure I really like sinking all my mana into getting colorless mana back. The Drum is maybe the one of these I like the most offhand...
I obviously need to test a bunch of things further but right now the cards in my list that I am watching the closest as possibly getting cut would be:
  • Aphetto Grifter I do see value in this card, but it also has no ETB so I guess it has the question of how much I fear a few big creatures. I am not sure where I stand on him as of right now. He is quite a bit worse than Opposition. I want to test him a bit further but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up cutting him. Some of the best things he can do would be tapping down coffers or something during someone's upkeep.
  • Archaeomancer It relies on the graveyard and having targets. He made a lot more sense when I was running heavier flickers and spell cloning. I don't think I have actually drawn him though..... so I feel obligated to test him further. The fact that a lot of my spells turned into like 5 mana spells though isn't really helping him out.
  • Eternal Skylord As I went away from flickers and clones he got worse. I haven't actually drawn him yet though so I guess I am clinging on to him until I at least get to draw him once.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

I played a few more games with this deck last night. In the 5 player game, I had a hard time shifting to being the aggressor with so many opponents / hp totals not to mention the increased sweeper options from my opponents. I think moving forward I am going to cap this deck at 4 players. I ducked out of the first game which felt like it was going nowhere to enable a 3 player game that otherwise wasn't launching. In the three player game I kind of oppressed the table leading off with an early Patron Wizard and then terrorizing them with a Sword of Feast and Famine as I kept most of my wizards up. I felt like I either needed to disrupt the faster decks more or run more ramp. I also had some issues where it felt like what I really needed was to flash plays in at end of turn because I really needed to combine things together or play something big and then take an extra turn to push combat where I needed it.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Fated InfatuationArcane Signet I came to the conclusion that UUU casting cost is still too mana intensive. I did consider cutting both Phantasmal Image and Cackling Counterpart as well but in both cases I felt like I wanted a little more testing. Fated Infatuation has been by far the inferior card of those three being that its more color intensive and doesn't have a later flashback option like counterpart. I like Arcane Signet and I keep telling myself I need more ramp and more colored mana.
  • PonderSavor the Moment Ponder is fine.... but I have a lot of draw / card selection already and I definitely feel it when I don't have a shuffle to fire off after drawing 1-2 cards because its rare that all three cards are what I want to draw. I am often firing the extra turns off to just play another land and untap and while they do it more efficiently than Savor when they resolve, I still think there is a lot of merit in Savor just to cheaply draw another card and put a land into play.
  • BrainstormHonor-Worn Shaku Similarly as above, I am having issues with having enough shuffle effects in the list for Brainstorm to really shine. I considered cutting back on the fetchlands and I might do that with Brainstorm leaving the list. Honor-Worn Shaku is kind of cool from the standpoint that my commander is cheap and tapping him for another mana seems reasonable. It is colorless mana but its sort of like a Worn Powerstone that enters untapped which I think I would like to try.
  • Galecaster ColossusNezahal, Primal Tide I was really looking forward to seeing what Galecaster Colossus was going to do for me and then I drew it last night in the 5 player game. Then I realized that it was probably just going to piss off the table and get my board killed. He is expensive to cast and its not easy to use him and be aggressive at the same time as he taps my creatures down. He also seems like he kind of scales poorly to more opponents. I have been having some issues with maximum hand size and I like that Nezahal self protects which is cool. He also gives a big body to attack or defend with and tapping out to cast him doesn't feel as bad ideally as Galecaster kind of felt to me. If you tap out for Galecaster and just see the next person wrath its really not a very good outcome but I think Nezahal gives a better outcome.
  • InundateEchoing Truth I think I want to shrink the cost down and be instant speed. Its going to be a lot smaller effect but I think I want to see how it goes. Spellseeker being able to tutor for Echoing and its ability to remove a bunch of tokens seems useful.
I guess I need more testing. I just constantly need more mana though so I guess we keep pushing the ramp up and see how it feels after that.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Well, its been some time. I haven't touched this deck in some time and then I had some games of magic this weekend where I managed to play this deck a few times. We were playing some three player FFA so I think this deck was at an advantage over a 4 or more player pool which I often play when not in covid times. I ended up winning a game or two off the back of wizards and it got me looking at this list again which I hadn't done much recently.

Lets look at new cards first:
  • Barrin, Tolarian Archmage - Its a better Exclusion Mage so, yea I guess it makes the cut since I have Exclusion Mage currently.
  • Glasspool Mimic - I like that its a cheap clone but also maybe a land if needed. Most of what I want to clone is my own creatures so I could maybe get behind this.
  • Master of Winds - This is a nice draw effect and its on a flying wizard which seems great. I like how its defensive normally but it can become more offensive when I want to go and attack. I look forward to getting my hands on a copy for this list. This effect is SOO much better than Riverwise Augur so there is literally no chance that this doesn't make my list.
  • Sea Gate Restoration // Sea Gate, Reborn - This card is going to be hard not to run literally everywhere.
  • Sea Gate Stormcaller - Its a cool effect. I would totally run it except that I have almost no targets for what it does in my list. The counters don't copy well especially not on my turn and so it leaves me with a few bounce options and preordain / ponder. I just don't have the targets to run it here.
DECK CHANGES: I really haven't seen Field of the Dead much of at all yet and I think I need more creatures that I can dispose of for blocking / trading / attacking. With these changes I am pushing up the number of ways I can use to go get that land. We will see if I can make it a bit more consistent which should help on both offense and defense. Expedition Map also lets me Trinket Mage into Field of the Dead now which is actually quite good later in the game.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 10 months ago

Its been a while since last update. I did play this deck at least once but I can't really recall seeing much of the updates in that game. I still haven't seen Field of the Dead in this list lol. I knew I wanted to make some changes but they have taken me a while to figure out.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Vendilion CliqueExclusion Mage so, the body on Clique is superior but I haven't found myself liking the ETB of it all that much. Its hard to pick what player to target and while I can move some cards in my own hand I haven't found the disruption on opponents being very good with an average of three opponents each game. I think I would rather slow down the current board than hope to make someone's hand worse. Sometimes even just blanking two tokens can be viable as well.
  • Nezahal, Primal TideStolen Identity I have good enough draw in this list already. I often find Nezahal with a full hand already anyways so I am just going to throw him out for something a little more synergistic with my wizard beat down plan. Given some of the bounce tactics it could be reasonable to copy a wizard that gives me some element of control and use that to send a wizard through to get another clone. It seems like it sort of supports the strategy of beat down tribal I was going for.
  • OppositionRhystic Study I don't really need more draw but I think the potential slow down of Rhystic plays well into the tempo concept of my deck. Opponents playing slower works well with some of the bounce tactics. Opposition is a really cool card, I was just having trouble getting enough creatures in play for it.
  • Honor-Worn ShakuFierce Guardianship my three drop artifact slot was getting a bit bigger than I needed it to be and I felt like Shaku giving me colorless mana was probably worse than my other three drops. Fierce Guardianship is an incredible card and I realized I didn't have a copy in here so lets remedy that.
I went back and forth for a while on what type of clone effect I wanted. Most of the four mana clones aren't that appealing leaving me with more of the "clone your creature" clones that tend to cost 3 or going up to the more expensive ones. I went back and forth for a while on Sublime Epiphany as another option but I felt like keeping six mana up was something that I would have to intentionally do and be somewhat forced to just drop it on the first reasonable counter target. I felt like it really took away from how good it felt for me which pushed me to Stolen Identity but I think Sublime Epiphany might still win out kind of depending on how hard I find it to get the 2x cloning off in the first turn with Stolen Identity.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje


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Post by ISBPathfinder » 10 months ago

pokken wrote:
10 months ago
Maaan Naban, Dean of Iteration + Master of Waves is hawt :)
Yea it super is. Its almost always GG if you can flash it in or defend it. I have more than once dropped clones on him too lol. The other day I managed to curve Patron Wizard into a T6 Master of Waves + Phantasmal Image of waves. It was a fast game over lol.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by Kahboom0225 » 10 months ago

How's Field of the Dead so far? Also what's are some budget substitutions for this deck?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 10 months ago

Kahboom0225 wrote:
10 months ago
How's Field of the Dead so far? Also what's are some budget substitutions for this deck?
I haven't managed to draw the damn thing yet so I don't have anything really to add for it but it gives more bodies for attacking or defending without taking up much space. If going budget I would easily do a few things but it would start with having a lot less random utility lands I never plan to use that are mostly in to diversify my lands to not all be islands lol. Cut field, fetches, snow lands as all of that were consessions towards Field of the Dead so while the card is like $18 or so its actually a few hundred in fetches and stuff to run it. Most of my landbase was me trying to be crafty and make Field of the Dead function in mono color because I own these things. If budget is a concern go heavily towards a mono island starting point.

Other easy cuts would be turning some of the more expensive extra turns into other cards. Swapping one into Karn's Temporal Sundering would be an easy swap and you could even consider Walk the Aeons or even just cutting back on extra turns as a whole.

Sword of Feast and Famine isn't going to have a direct substitute but there is the question of if you want another three drop artifact to fill in for Trophy Mage or not. If you go as far as cutting Urza's Incubator from the list I would at that point cut Trophy Mage. Urza's Incubator is just such a fantastic card but I get it when it comes to budget you have to make concessions and cuts.

You could turn Thassa, Deep-Dwelling into Conjurer's Closet or even just cut that spot for anything else. When it comes to budget sometimes its cutting something expensive for something you have on hand rather than buying a cheaper substitute.



I don't really ever play on a budget so thats sort of the best I can come up with offhand. Lots of the expenses are in the landbase so start by identifying any lands that you think have a high payoff and low cost to obtain assuming any of those. On a budget I guess you could just streamline it to 100% islands and worry about the nonlands starting out. If I were to identify my favorite lands in the list offhand it might be Reliquary Tower, Riptide Laboratory, and Winding Canyons.

I would strongly suggest starting with any purchases on getting the wizards you want in the list. I think its probably the most important starting place. You can always consider some budget friendly cards like Crystal Shard to give you some means of abusing the wizards while keeping on budget. When it comes to everything else I would just encourage you to not skimp on the ramp factor because a lot of the good wizards have draw involved so its not that hard to be up to your eyeballs in cards in hand but be limited by your ability to cast things. The cost reduction effects are GREAT but they also make the rest of the deck more reliant on blue mana rather than colorless so you can see I opted for Gilded Lotus but not Thran Dynamo due in part to that.

Start with wizards, then go for ramp, then fill in with everything else being board control, value generation, and anthems. That would be my money priority list I guess.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by Kahboom0225 » 8 months ago

Any new updates recently?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 8 months ago

Kahboom0225 wrote:
8 months ago
Any new updates recently?
I played a game or two but really I have had a lot of new decks lately. I don't have a lot of big changes or anything so it really just comes down to new things or something that ends up underperforming for me. Of the new set I looked at the following:
  • Cyclone Summoner - I like the effect but doubling the effect doesn't really do anything. The body size is fine and its kind of a cyclonic rift effect in that you won't hit yourself very hard. I go back and forth to be honest on it, I don't really know how I feel about it to be honest just because we have so much draw that big expensive drops aren't that appealing to me.
  • Inga Rune-Eyes - The ETB is a little underwhelming for me. I like the dies trigger but.... I don't know.
  • Pyre of Heroes - This is probably the most likely card out of the new set for me. My only concern is just sort of having the chains of creatures to pod off of as well as where my pod chain sort of stops. My biggest concern is that most of my wizards fall in the 3-5 mana range. I just don't see much pod progression options as we are just like 3, 4, and 5 drops.
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Post by Kahboom0225 » 8 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
8 months ago
Kahboom0225 wrote:
8 months ago
Any new updates recently?
I played a game or two but really I have had a lot of new decks lately. I don't have a lot of big changes or anything so it really just comes down to new things or something that ends up underperforming for me. Of the new set I looked at the following:
  • Cyclone Summoner - I like the effect but doubling the effect doesn't really do anything. The body size is fine and its kind of a cyclonic rift effect in that you won't hit yourself very hard. I go back and forth to be honest on it, I don't really know how I feel about it to be honest just because we have so much draw that big expensive drops aren't that appealing to me.
  • Inga Rune-Eyes - The ETB is a little underwhelming for me. I like the dies trigger but.... I don't know.
  • Pyre of Heroes - This is probably the most likely card out of the new set for me. My only concern is just sort of having the chains of creatures to pod off of as well as where my pod chain sort of stops. My biggest concern is that most of my wizards fall in the 3-5 mana range. I just don't see much pod progression options as we are just like 3, 4, and 5 drops.
Thoughts on Reflections of Littjara ?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 8 months ago

Kahboom0225 wrote:
8 months ago
Thoughts on Reflections of Littjara ?
Sorry I forgot to scour those extra cards at the bottom. Its probably fine.... my issue is just that its a lot of setup to have Neban + That + casting wizards. Lots of our wizards already give a TON of value from just casting them with Neban and obviously its more value and extra bodies having that. To me though it comes down to the same answer as why I don't run Panharmonicon. Its true that you get an extra body out of this and more ETBs but the reason I wasn't running Panharmonicon was more that its a lot more setup and I don't really need to try to juice more value out of my wizards. The setup of casting a 5 mana enchant and following it with playing wizards sounds expensive and slow and while it does ooze value, my issue is that its going to draw a lot of attention and probably not last long. Its one of those things that if you can stick it and run then it would be great but it screams kill me about as much as a Doubling Season does in my mind.

I do think it would be super sweet in action. My hesitation is more that that turn you play it seems like a hard turn for me. Playing it + a wizard in the same turn could be almost as mana heavy as just playing something like Sea Gate Restoration. I only get away with playing Sea Gate because of its option to be a land early and a bomb draw late. I feel like playing Reflections of Littjara in a deck though is like accepting that its either an 8+ drop or its a 5 mana do nothing brick you hope lives a turn. I personally don't like paying five mana for no immediate return on a card that screams to be answered.

So, in short. It seems powerful but slow and clunky to me. Even if you would stick it, there is a diminishing return to a lot of the ETB effects. If you suddenly draw 4 from a Merchant of Secrets you will run into max hand size issues potentially and the targets to bounce with an Aether Adept usually fall off after the first target or two anyways. Extra value is still extra value but the setup time of the card is ultimately why I don't plan to.

Stolen Identity also probably won't be staying in my list. Its cute but.... its probably headed out soon (when I can find something else I like).
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by Yusoma » 7 months ago

Hi !

I'm a huge fan of Naban. I tried many constructed decks with him in variant format and, time passing, I decided to try a new way to play him : obviously, it's commander. As usual, I traveled across the web to find some ideas and I found this post yesterday which blow my mind. Like you I'm a big fan of mono blue but i dislike how they win. I really want to try and give my returns to eventually make the list go up.
Moreover, It's really fun because, by the past, I was a avid reader of mtg salvation's forum and the first list that inspired me was of your deck Toshiro. My version no longer exists but I played this during many years.

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