Jori En - Izzet Cantrips

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

With the set release of Guilds of Ravnica I noticed a LOT of additional payoff cards for spellcast. I had previously built Jori En but I found that I wasn't happy with the amount of payoff cards for spellcasting at the time. Since then we have gotten a LOT more toys and I find the payoff to be a lot better now.

What does this do? The basic concept here is to play cards that generate free value when you cast an instant or sorcery spell like say Electrostatic Field or Talrand, Sky Summoner. Once those cards are in play I plan to chain cheap cantrip spells to cycle through my deck and trigger for a TON of free value from cards that care about me casting these cheap spells.

Why Jori En? To be honest, there are a ton of options on who to run as a commander in UR for a spellcast commander. Most of the other options cost more mana and seem more commander centric I guess is my answer. What I like about Jori En is that she has somewhat of a smaller threat profile and she makes the deck run smoother but is not required to play and or do well. She greases the wheels and lets the deck run smoother but is not so integral that the deck can't run without her. Sometimes when your deck is heavy on cantrips the worst thing that can happen is just drawing into lands and or non cantrip spells because they can run you out of steam. Having Jori En on hand helps smooth over some of that issue and lets some of these cards that literally just replace themselves to generate some additional card draw. Having a cheaper commander who comes in sooner also helps me keep my curve lower and makes the necessity of running a heavier ramp package less important than some of the 6 mana commander options.

75% - I intentionally avoid infinite combos and mass land disruption effects as a general approach to how I play magic. This deck is fairly optimized beyond that with the one exception that I have tried tuning down the number of extra turns for this deck. I think that Time Warp effects are incredibly powerful and synergistic with this build but I have chosen to omit many of them due to the general feel and experience of my meta when I cast them.

Decklist

COMMANDER (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

There, I finally ported my cantrips deck over. I wanted to check my paper list to make sure to get a few updates in that I knew I had made. Some noteable changes that I made:

Ral, Storm Conduit got cut. I found that I was unwilling to cast him in too many situations. He ended up feeling a little too expensive to pay 4 mana to copy one spell and die. I don't dislike him but in the end I found him to be over costed for what he was actually getting me. Expansion // Exploration came into my list instead and I have been happier with that effect.

Firemind's Research went out for Search for Azcanta. I was having some issues in that firemind was hard to use in the early game even when I would curve it and it would usually get answered before I really got around to doing anything with it. Search can also die just as easy but I think the value of flipping it to a land or getting some free scry effects in are a little easier and less mana intensive. I have even used the activated ability of the land a few times when running dry so I think its fitting quite decently right now. The value of paying the activated ability to search up cantrips isn't great but its still something to do if you run dry.

Finale of Promise - its been in for a while now, I brought it in for Mizzix's Mastery and I just had to say, I have absolutely never looked back. I had this issue with Mizzix that I constantly was trying to set up like 10+ spells in graveyard to get back with it on top of trying to have some spellcast matters creatures in play. In the end, it just felt incredibly clunky and the Finale has felt a LOT smoother. Sure, its not as much value but its so much easier to cast and I don't find myself sandbagging it in my hand all game waiting for that perfect moment to try to resolve it. I just wish I had another version of the Finale I could run its been so good so far.
Last edited by ISBPathfinder 4 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by xeroxedfool » 4 years ago

Whats up with Savor the Moment?
They're both Griffith, get it?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

xeroxedfool wrote:
4 years ago
Whats up with Savor the Moment?
lol that is a great question.

Essentially, Time Warp is amazing as hell. And I finally started feeling bad ramming them down on my opponents. Savor the Moment was eventually my compromise. It lets me draw an extra card, play an extra land, gain haste, and reset Jori En to draw again. In a nutshell its not that far from Explore and I REALLY love Explore.

I think if I was intentionally being more optimal I would have Time Warp, Capture of Jingzhou, and Temporal Manipulation all in this list. I just got tired of feeling like I kicked a puppy every time I resolved one of them so I cut them from a lot of my blue decks. Its really tragic given that I own a capture P3K :(

Anyways, Savor the Moment is still quite a reasonable card. Having it cost less and let me ramp mana is really fantastic. Resetting Jori En to draw another card is also quite reasonable. I would say my overall feel on it has been really good. Even if I would resort to the 5 mana turns I might keep Savor because it really has been quite nice.
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Post by xeroxedfool » 4 years ago

Thanks for the explanation. I kinda figured it was being used as an explore. I did miss how it resets the commander though, which is nice.
They're both Griffith, get it?

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

So, its kind of odd to put my list up on nexus today and then see a ton of new and spicy cards that I am considering but.... well here I am.
  • Brazen Borrower Its cool that we get a mix between boomerang and unsummon here. But the body doesn't matter for this deck and 3 mana for Boomerang is too much.
  • The Magic Mirror So, its Phyrexian Arena that spins up. My issue being that arena feels really slow if you get it later in the game and this version is going to draw easily twice the attention of arena given the no max hand size and the fact that it gets better over time. In my opinion, you need Arena to give you at least 2+ card before it becomes a good investment and given the delay in this mirror starting needing to fill up cards in graveyard and the percieved threat of it, I just really don't have much hope for it given the delay in return of it and the delay in setting it up starting. I am a big advocate of looking at the expected lifetime of cards as well as the time to break even and I don't think the math is behind this card.
  • Run Away Together Its 2x unsummon with some restrictions. Its kind of cool and maybe I could make it work. My issue offhand is that I don't really think that Unsummon is that great of disruption. Chain of Vapor gets the nod from me for being nonland bounce and being cheaper there is useful. Where I actually see this card really shining would be in a deck with a focus on ETB effects. The value of bouncing an opponents creature and reloading an ETB creature would be kind of insane.
  • Stolen by the Fae its kind of bad bounce mixed with some token production. The token production element of this card is actually somewhat reasonable but being sorcery speed X mana spells it kind of doesn't really vibe with what I am trying to do in this deck.
  • Embercleave I real fast considered this for Jori En. It would be funny and given the tokens the cost to cast it wouldn't be that bad. Ultimately though I am really not a commander beat down deck though and encountering anything that is a 4/4 or larger would result in trading Jori En. Its an amusing thought though and I am sure if I really wanted to run it here I could probably get away with it.
  • Irencrag Pyromancer So, the appeal here for me is that its cheap disruption that is repeatable and the trigger is off of something INCREDIBLY similar to what I am already trying to do naturally. Being that this is a three drop, ohhhhhhhh man I am excited to get my hands on this card. I could see curving Jori En into this + a spell the turn after. I am VERY excited to get my hands on this card for this deck.
  • Torbran, Thane of Red Fell I count 6 creatures in my deck as of right now that would be REALLY fun with this card. My issue is that outside of those 6 creatures combined with him...... I don't think he does much of anything. Red token generation and pingers are all somewhat exciting with him but its just a little too inconsistent for me.
  • Improbable Alliance I am not quite as excited here as I am for Irencrag Pyromancer but, it is a very cheap enchantment that makes reasonable tokens. I am not sold on this card making the cut, but that said it is a cheap enchantment that makes flying tokens. I like that I feel like I could get this to fly under the radar a little and while its clearly not as powerful as a lot of the other token generation in here, its a little harder to remove being an enchantment and I think the threat level of it isn't too bad. In a lot of cases in magic, the thing that doesn't seem like you are super going to die to it is the thing left alone.
  • The Royal Scions I haven't had great luck defending walkers in here.
  • Heraldic Banner I like that it can be an anthem and ramp. I think its a reasonable card and I will have to give it some more thought. My hesitation is that I don't have THAT many token producers and generally speaking any time I can stick them into making tokens I am in a reasonable spot anyways. This card kind of seems not great unless I already have token generators making tokens so...... maybe winmore.
  • Castle Embereth So, it looks like I have ZERO need for basic lands in here over a utility land like this. The only time I could see a downside would be if someone plays blood moon / ruination / back to basics effects. But being that we kind of usually don't do that currently it seems like a big upside to have this utility on hand. I totally plan to bring this in for a basic land.
  • Castle Vantress Really same as above. I don't really see myself activating it all that often but the option to do so over a basic island, really there isn't a downside.
  • Fabled Passage I suppose I could consider this in place of a basic. I guess this reminds me that I should probably add a Prismatic Vista to my list.
So, these cards also got me kind of wandering down the question of if I should add Field of the Dead. Its a card that I have been having success with lately. I could split my basics with snow basics and as I add the castles into the list in place of basics it also helps dilute my list some. I suppose we will probably see fetchable common lands for mountain / island yet as well which I could consider as another way to dilute my land names for field.

I am very interested to hear any thoughts towards any of this or any other cards I might have missed. I have been a little behind on updating this list being a little lazy with other new projects and just other decks in general.
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 4 years ago

Mad Ratter is in the same batch as Improbable Alliance and seems OK. Higher cost upfront and no evasion, but you do get twice as many tokens.

The real reason I'm posting is to make a snarky comment about Castle Embereth not being too badly damaged by Blood Moon, but I do get what you're saying about those. Any concerns about ETBT with only 14 mountains in the list? I'm counting basics, duals, fetches, and Myriad Landscape. You're after high velocity, so an early tapped land could hurt. I'd also have commented on the lack of Prismatic Vista, but you beat me to it.

Field of the Dead feels like a little bit of a stretch. You have 14 unique, non-fetch lands if you split basics non/snow. I don't want to take a bunch of time running math, but my instinct on it is that you wouldn't be turning it on until you were around 9-10 lands (expectation is a few basic islands, given that they're 1/3 of your manabase), which is pretty late for a non-green deck. Could still work, but it might be too small an effect for an ETBT colorless land in a deck that relies so heavily on early colored mana.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
4 years ago
Mad Ratter is in the same batch as Improbable Alliance and seems OK. Higher cost upfront and no evasion, but you do get twice as many tokens.

The real reason I'm posting is to make a snarky comment about Castle Embereth not being too badly damaged by Blood Moon, but I do get what you're saying about those. Any concerns about ETBT with only 14 mountains in the list? I'm counting basics, duals, fetches, and Myriad Landscape. You're after high velocity, so an early tapped land could hurt. I'd also have commented on the lack of Prismatic Vista, but you beat me to it.

Field of the Dead feels like a little bit of a stretch. You have 14 unique, non-fetch lands if you split basics non/snow. I don't want to take a bunch of time running math, but my instinct on it is that you wouldn't be turning it on until you were around 9-10 lands (expectation is a few basic islands, given that they're 1/3 of your manabase), which is pretty late for a non-green deck. Could still work, but it might be too small an effect for an ETBT colorless land in a deck that relies so heavily on early colored mana.
Mad Ratter - I was a bit less keen on the fact that he is a 4 drop 1/2 creature. The tokens are fine, but they don't fly and he feels like a much worse Young Pyromancer and pyromancer tends to be one of my least favorite token makers in this deck due to the lack of flying. It does make more tokens than Improbable Alliance but the lack of flying, costing twice as much, and being a fragile creature all add up to me feeling a lot more hesitant on it.

Castles - its fairly rare that I don't have land types. The red one might come in tapped given I run a lot less mountains than I do islands but I also don't find that I do much in the first two turns of the game as I usually don't cast things until I have my commander in play with the caviot of playing draw spells to get lands if I don't have enough to play jori en. So.... I guess I am not too worried about it right now given my usual casual waiting for Jori En or some other spellcast matters payoff to start throwing things about.

Prismatic Vista - I think I own like 3-4 of them and oddly I haven't been all that impressed with it yet. I should add one in but I really with good dual lands I have usually felt it is worse than any other fetchland but I guess its better than having yet another basic in a deck that doesn't particularly care about basic counts.

Field of the Dead - I would need to make some changes to the landbase but really I don't have much for benefit of having basics in my deck. People really aren't hating on nonbasics in my meta so the pain of taking some basics out for lands that enter untapped and produce colored mana is kind of low. I probably need to do a few updates to the landbase but really I never use Mystifying Maze so cutting it for Field seems like it could be an easy swap. They also just spoiled the fetchable common island and it looks kind of great. I don't think this deck would like..... build around Field of the Dead but I think the opportunity cost to include it isn't that high. Its also fairly normal for me to go through half or more of this deck in the course of a game so finding any specific card in that level of draw is kind of decent.
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Post by pokken » 4 years ago

re: Prismatic vista - being forced to fetch basics has been way worse than I thought even in two color decks. :) It's decent. but nowhere near as good as I expected. It's been great in Gitrog and wanderer, medium in Ephara, and medium-bad in Aminatou. Glad it's not just me.

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Post by SocorroTortoise » 4 years ago

I've liked Vista a lot so far. It's usually replacing a basic for me and dodges most of the common nonbasic hate. It's been color fixing without appreciably decreasing basic counts. I do tend to high basic counts in most of my decks, which may be a contributing factor there.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

Ok, well I guess its time to make room for some testing.

DECK CHANGES:
  • Walking AtlasIrencrag Pyromancer I have actually been struggling with Walking Atlas for a while now. I keep hoping to draw it in the early game but it seems like I always find it late and it feels way less impressive off curve. I suppose that is sort of true with most ramp but needing a turn to spin up and a few turns to really get much payoff really has made it feel slow when cast beyond like turn 5. I am very interested to see what the Pyromancer can do for me. It might just be a bolt but its repeatable bolt options and it can do it very quickly behind casting it.
  • Wayfarer's BaubleImprobable Alliance I still sort of like the bauble but I feel like I have added a few better ramp effects since adding bauble to the deck. I really like token effects that make flyers and its nice that the alliance seems like it might fly under the radar. I want to at least try it out.
  • Mystifying MazeField of the Dead I have been on a kick of late for field. It is going to take a few adjustments for it but its been VERY rare that maze has been useful for me in this list. Generally speaking big tramply things can be a problem that it can help with but I haven't been finding them that much of an issue of late. I am making a few changes to the landbase here to try to make Field look better.
  • 1 IslandMystic Sanctuary so, this new land looks fantastic. Adding it for a basic also helps make field look better.
  • 1 IslandCastle Vantress I don't think that the utility of this castle will be used a ton, but it takes up almost no space and gives me a mana dump in case I get stuck. It also makes Field of the Dead better.
  • 1 MountainCastle Embereth given that tokens are a big portion of my wincon, this can often add a LOT of power to them given I don't really buff tokens much with anything. Lots of my token producers make 1/1 tokens so this should be very useful.
  • 1 Mountain → 1 Snow-Covered Mountain adjusting for Field.
  • 4 Island → 4 Snow-Covered Island adjusting for Field.
  • 1 IslandPrismatic Vista I suppose I should have another fetchland. It only gets basics but I can probably use this to juggle my land counts between snow and non snow for Field. Plus its a fetchland so once field is active its a 2x activation.
I am going to be out on vacation so sadly I will miss pre release. I am looking forward to testing some of these new toys though.
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Post by SmauGii » 4 years ago

How is everybody doing.
After a long break of being very active online i've finally made the switch from salvation to Nexus. I have had an account for a few months but dit nothing with it at all :)
My Jori-En deck is still intact and is being played, and is winning frequently. It's still a blast to play and last weekend i pulled the Ral, Storm Conduit copy combo off :)

I've come here to show my latest version of the deck and discuss about the new cards comming out. In particular Improbable Alliance. To me, this one specifically synergizes very good with wat the deck is trying to do (i.e. create block fodder for buying time) at a much lower CMC than the current additions to the deck, some of which allready have been replaced. I'm trying to find what's best to cut.
Decklist

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

the latest changes include:
out: Radical Idea, in: Visions of Beyond
out: Wizard's Lightning, in: Quicken
out: Chemister's Insight, in: Portent
out: Azami, Lady of Scrolls, in: Role Reversal
out: Frantic Search, in: Sleight of Hand
out: Mountain, in: Fiery Islet
out: Izzet Signet, in: Talisman of Creativity
out: Electrolyze, in: Archmage's Charm
out: Mountain, in: Izzet Signet
out: Bloodstained Mire, in: Arid Mesa
out: Concegrated Sphinx, in: Firemind's Research
out: Riptide Laboratory, in: Desolate Lighthouse
out: Docent of Perfection, in: Keranos, God of Storms
out: Fire Diamond, in: Chrome Mox

Looking forward to be active online again.
Commander: GUBR Vial Smasher the Fierce / Thrasios, Triton Hero Big Mana - GBR Korvold, Fae-Cursed King Aristocrats - WBRC Queen Marchesa Pillow Fort - GUBW Atraxa, Praetors' Voice +1/+1 Counters - UR Jori En, Ruin Diver Storm - GW Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves Wolf Tribal - UWR Pramikon, Sky Rampart Superfriends - BRG Gyrus, Waker of Corpses GY Recursion - WBG Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper Lifegain - BUG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Petitioners self mill

Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW :foil: Bushwhacker Zoo -

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

[mention]SmauGii[/mention] Glad to see you make the jump. Its cool to hear that the Ral copy combo worked for you. I still don't know that I like most of those cards outside of the combo but they are all at least still relevant to the strategy.

Improbable Alliance - I am also interested to see how this does. Its probably not going to be as good of a wincon but I think its threat perception will be reasonable and its very affordable to cast.

Of your changes, I really like the lowering of the curve and increase in cheap cantrips. The only one I am a bit hesitant on is cutting Docent of Perfection. He often does die and just end up being a bad Young Pyromancer but when he doesn't, the tokens he makes and buffs are really gross. I guess its a bit of a question of how long he lasts. I can think of a few times where he went the distance for me but I suppose if you expect him to die in a fire then perhaps he is more questionable. I think the same logic could be used on Psychosis Crawler though and I think the value of Docent and what it leaves behind is better than what the crawler does upfront. Assuming you can bank on keeping either one for a duration of time I think Docent does more work given the buff he gives to the tokens.

Some random thoughts on some of your cards:

Artifact lands - I don't actually see any benefit of running these over basic lands offhand. My concern usually comes from random wraths like say Austere Command that will leave you with less lands. Unless I have a VERY good reason to run these lands I tend to avoid them.

Chasm Skulker - I have avoided this guy for a long time in part because he takes time to spin up and there are a lot of things that can happen that he won't make tokens from. Beyond that, he sort of wants a wrath to go off for him to get better in my opinion. Its easy to chump block him before then.

Keranos, God of Storms - I know this is robust and the things it does are fine. My issue is it just feels...... slow and expensive. If you can curve it its probably fine but his value is really slow given how fast I feel like I usually move as the game progresses. Lots of the 5+ mana things that this deck can do can put a LOT of immediate pressure on opponents but this guy is like........... slow and feels a little off tempo.

Psychosis Crawler - I continue to hate on this guy primarily from the standpoint that he feels like a 5 mana Electrostatic Field. Worse than that, not all of our spells draw us cards and when you go to cast it you miss out on our draw for the turn and are 5 mana down. Its probably fine if it lives for a while but the initial investment for it feels not great to me. Given you also have a bunch of spell copy effects it can also make more expensive drops feel additionally clunky as spell copy effects have a higher cost / reliance when you go to use them.

Lightning StrikeAbrade I think lightning bolt effects are ok in commander but how often do you need to hit walkers / players with bolts? I think the versatility of Abrade is probably superior to Lightning Strike being able to hit players / walkers.

Ever-Watching Threshold I guess I am interested to hear a bit more on this front. I feel like I could see Improbable Alliance come in here possibly.

Saheeli, Sublime Artificer so, I guess my issue with Saheeli is that she feels like Young Pyromancer but can be attacked down and doesn't defend herself from tramplers or flyers very well. Granted, I really haven't given her a shot but that has been my original hesitation with her.
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Post by SmauGii » 4 years ago

Thanks! Good to be back.

Regarding your points, i fully agree with your thorough assessment on cards like Docent of Perfection and Psychosis Crawler. Both can get out of hand when left well alone, though i few most, if not all token creators as defensive additions to this deck.
To me, the deck needs some form defense until it can "go off". This is best when dropped as early as possible and start gaining value while doing my thing while others are sttill setting up. Low on curve cards like Young Pyromancer, Saheeli, Sublime Artificer and the newly spoiled Improbable Alliance represent the best on-theme value in this regard. The only exception is The Locust God for it's sheer power, ability and hasty flying insects.
To a certain extend, cards like Chasm Skulker and Ever Watching Threshold fullfill the same role in that they deter attacks early.
So what about Psychosis Crawler, This card is in the same category as Electrostatic Field et al. Those are the payoff cards, the finishers if you will. In my meta with a healthy amount of graveyard interaction, damage prevention and that random Glacial Chasm, crawler is invaluable and has won my many a game.

Good spot on the artifact lands. Those are a leftover from the time i was using Trinket Mage for some utility. These were fetchable mana options if needed but can now be cut like Riptide Laboratory

Keranos, God of Storms is a very recent addition and is just in to test. He didn't dissapoint the first (and last) game i played him to be honest. Drawing trough lands or bolting stuff. The ability is a little clunky, i admit.

Lightning Bolt and Lightning Strike Versus Abrade. Abrade is versatile, but unfortunately doesn't end the game. multiple stacked copies of Abrade is a boardwipe at best whereas bot bolt and strike can finish the game.

My decklist is a little light on interaction, but makes up for that by being able to use the "forks" in aikido style. Usually the table is doing stuff to each other and i seem unthreatening. This is what makes te deck good. I also rarely interact offensively with this deck. I just calculate turns and damage :) It's a math puzzle most of the time and it is this playstyle that sets this deck apart from all others i've built.
Commander: GUBR Vial Smasher the Fierce / Thrasios, Triton Hero Big Mana - GBR Korvold, Fae-Cursed King Aristocrats - WBRC Queen Marchesa Pillow Fort - GUBW Atraxa, Praetors' Voice +1/+1 Counters - UR Jori En, Ruin Diver Storm - GW Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves Wolf Tribal - UWR Pramikon, Sky Rampart Superfriends - BRG Gyrus, Waker of Corpses GY Recursion - WBG Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper Lifegain - BUG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Petitioners self mill

Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW :foil: Bushwhacker Zoo -

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Post by SafetyValve » 4 years ago

Decklist

COMMANDER (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

So here's my deck. You'll notice I basically copied a very large amount of your deck, mostly because the way this deck plays is so much fun I have trouble straying too far. Most of the differences are due to cards I can't currently afford (Arclight Phoenix) or just personally don't like (Kefnet the Mnidful). There are a few cards I'd like to add still, but just can't figure out what to cut. I'd love to know what you think!

Savor the Moment seems like a really good idea from how you've described it, especially with what Jori can do. I'd also REALLY like to find room for Shenanigans. I added it to my Jaya Ballard, Task Mage deck a while back and it is definitely a huge, annoying threat for any bothersome artifacts. With this deck's penchant for draw, it could easily come back any time you need it.

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Post by SmauGii » 4 years ago

Hey, how's everybody doing with Jori-En these days?
I havn't been very active online lately, but deckbuilding and playing did not stop! Every now and then I revisit an existing deck to tune to the current meta in my playgroup and adjust to new cards.
Last year, some very interesting pieces have came by and those made me rethink my version of Jori-En. Most notably Modern Horizon's Aria of Flame and Underworld Breach from Theros. Also from Theros are Mischievous Chimera and Wavebreak Hippocamp which motivate more to play at instant speed.
The last build incorporated the Ral, Storm Conduit copy combo suite, and it did provide me a fair share of wins. Though it had the inevitable downside of making the curve of the deck a little high. Also i needed to go off the turn in played Ral which ment either at least 7 mana and a shaped hand or enough protection on board for Ral.
This new build is much leaner, and goes back to the roots of where I and IBSpathfinder once started.
Decklist

Commander

Approximate Total Cost:

After some playtesting, I noticed how important some protection tokens or (soft)removal is for this deck to work. The playgroup has figured out, they can't let me durdle for too long. So I want the tune a little more in the interaction department.
I also want to make more use of the High Tide by working in some untap shenanigans. Frantic Search in in there. But I'd like to make room for at least: Cloud of Faeries, Snap, Twiddle, Twitch, Turnabout and if I can make the instant speed win work, Reset. Maybies are: Unwind and Rewind but those need targets to have the desired effect.
Most of these will also double as a way to politically protect my life total while I durdle around.

Please let me know what you guys think!
Commander: GUBR Vial Smasher the Fierce / Thrasios, Triton Hero Big Mana - GBR Korvold, Fae-Cursed King Aristocrats - WBRC Queen Marchesa Pillow Fort - GUBW Atraxa, Praetors' Voice +1/+1 Counters - UR Jori En, Ruin Diver Storm - GW Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves Wolf Tribal - UWR Pramikon, Sky Rampart Superfriends - BRG Gyrus, Waker of Corpses GY Recursion - WBG Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper Lifegain - BUG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Petitioners self mill

Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW :foil: Bushwhacker Zoo -

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

I built a Sai token cantrip style of deck and it sort of eclipsed my focus on this list. Then my wife and I had a baby and haven't really played magic in like 2 months now. Some of my issue is that I don't always find a payoff for casting spells. If someone uses removal on my payoffs I can easily go through half my deck sometimes just spinning my wheels.

I guess its the trade off for playing a few payoffs in deck instead of as the commander. I haven't really had strong feelings about new cards so I haven't really played this list much of late.
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Post by SmauGii » 4 years ago

First of all, Congratulations to you and your wife with the baby. I hope everything is well with them!
I know how much goes into those first few months. Been there, and managing time and mental energy can be pretty though.

With regards to Magic and EDH. Jori-En was left a little behind in terms of attention. New (and older) commanders and other decks got more focus due to the direction our playgroup was heading, which is a more midrangey way of playing. After last weekend though, i remember how much i like the puzzle of this deck.

Some changes made as of yesterday's post:
RescindSnap = Less flexible, but more efficient removal, coupled to untap effect to chain more spells
Glimpse of FreedomCloud of Faeries = It feels unlikely to cast Glimpse more than once for its escape cost. Cloud provides a Protective body and untap effect, but also that card draw when needed.
Cyclonic RiftTurnabout = One of the most powerfull effects in EDH needs 7 mana up to be as usefull as it can be. I have used Rift for two more times than i'd like to admid. Turnabout is arguably more efficient in what it does both ways albeit more politically.
Commander: GUBR Vial Smasher the Fierce / Thrasios, Triton Hero Big Mana - GBR Korvold, Fae-Cursed King Aristocrats - WBRC Queen Marchesa Pillow Fort - GUBW Atraxa, Praetors' Voice +1/+1 Counters - UR Jori En, Ruin Diver Storm - GW Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves Wolf Tribal - UWR Pramikon, Sky Rampart Superfriends - BRG Gyrus, Waker of Corpses GY Recursion - WBG Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper Lifegain - BUG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Petitioners self mill

Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW :foil: Bushwhacker Zoo -

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 4 years ago

I am not sure about the Rescind plan. Have you cycled it? Cycling is just such a bad use of mana for this deck and there are more efficient bounce effects to be had.

Lava Dart? Interesting choice of spells. I am not sure how I really feel about it.

I do like the idea of the new escape cards. That is an interesting thing to dig deeper on. I will probably have to pick up and add them to my own list in the future. Hopefully I start getting back into the swing of some magic soon.
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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 4 years ago

I will say that Underworld Breach is absolutely fantastic for a deck like this. In my opinion it is on par with things like Yawgmoth's Will, Regrowth and Snapcaster Mage and even more broken in certain builds. It allows mono red to recur ANY non-land card, something as yet, outside of red's purview.

I believe this card to be the true sleeper of the set. I'm not normally a speculator, but I bought 2 playsets because I think this card will go up in value. As far as I see it, it is an auto-include for any commander deck running red, similar to something like Dockside Extortionist or Faithless Looting for the simple reason that it can be a Regrowth or Snapcaster Mage in red.

What really breaks Underworld Breach though is that it puts the resolved cards back into your graveyard. I have to think this was an oversight on Wizard's part. Casting anything that either generates mana or self mills means that you can just keep chaining spells. Some cards in these colors that do this are Inner Fire, Seething Song, Mana Geyser, High Tide, Turnabout or any wheel effect, such as Wheel of Fortune or Fateful Showdown.

Only real downside is that it is an enchantment, which means it is harder to tutor for in UR. We do have Gamble, Long-Term Plans, Intuition, and Muddle the Mixture however. It is also nigh impossible to recur it from your graveyard, aside from shuffle effects like Time Spiral, Time Reversal, etc...
WRBKaalia, Zenith Seeker - Certified Air Raid Material
WBElenda, the Dusk Rose - Drain and Gain
WRAurelia, the Warleader - Tokens/Equipment
URNiv-Mizzet, Parun - Controlled Burn primer
BRGHenzie, "Toolbox" Torre - Creature Feature
BRGSoul of Windgrace - Lands Matter
RGWGishath, Sun's Avatar - I'M YOUR DADDY
GWUBAtraxa, Praetors' Voice - Artifact Stax Beatdown
Budget Starter Decks
UBSygg, River Cutthroat
WU Shorikai, Genesis Engine
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SmauGii
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Post by SmauGii » 4 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
4 years ago
I am not sure about the Rescind plan. Have you cycled it? Cycling is just such a bad use of mana for this deck and there are more efficient bounce effects to be had.

Lava Dart? Interesting choice of spells. I am not sure how I really feel about it.

I do like the idea of the new escape cards. That is an interesting thing to dig deeper on. I will probably have to pick up and add them to my own list in the future. Hopefully I start getting back into the swing of some magic soon.
Rescind was is as a flexible piece of (temporary) removal. Cycling was just gravy and on theme. But it's our due to inefficency.
Lava Dart is there as a reuasable and "free" burn spell, with which i finish my storm streak usually. I know the one damage isn't much but together with Firestorm it replaced both Lightning Bolt and Comet Storm.
On that topic, Firestorm is absolutely amazing in this deck as a versatile finisher or removalspell.
In that category, the "real" storm cards Grapeshot and Empty the Warrens are still on the radar.
RowanKeltizar wrote:
4 years ago
I will say that Underworld Breach is absolutely fantastic for a deck like this. In my opinion it is on par with things like Yawgmoth's Will, Regrowth and Snapcaster Mage and even more broken in certain builds. It allows mono red to recur ANY non-land card, something as yet, outside of red's purview.

I believe this card to be the true sleeper of the set. I'm not normally a speculator, but I bought 2 playsets because I think this card will go up in value. As far as I see it, it is an auto-include for any commander deck running red, similar to something like Dockside Extortionist or Faithless Looting for the simple reason that it can be a Regrowth or Snapcaster Mage in red.

What really breaks Underworld Breach though is that it puts the resolved cards back into your graveyard. I have to think this was an oversight on Wizard's part. Casting anything that either generates mana or self mills means that you can just keep chaining spells. Some cards in these colors that do this are Inner Fire, Seething Song, Mana Geyser, High Tide, Turnabout or any wheel effect, such as Wheel of Fortune or Fateful Showdown.

Only real downside is that it is an enchantment, which means it is harder to tutor for in UR. We do have Gamble, Long-Term Plans, Intuition, and Muddle the Mixture however. It is also nigh impossible to recur it from your graveyard, aside from shuffle effects like Time Spiral, Time Reversal, etc...
Yes, i'm glad you also see the enormous potential a card like this has in a deck like this.
I've seen the card go truly bonkers in a wheels deck online and figured, the additional cost of three cards is perfectly doable in the finishing turn of this Jori-En deck.
I've also toyed with the idea of rituals, and some are in my collection. The biggest problem i have with that, is the steep blue mana demand of the deck. So i would need ways to convert R into U which makes it clunky.

I would also consider Wheels, in fact Fateful Showdown was in the list at one point as a finisher. Copied a few times won me many games. It also has the risk of decking yourself in that scenario due to the vast amount of cards in hand on the finishing turn. This though, was in a time where curve was higher, the deck was slower and i had more lands. I never could get myself to put a triggered shuffle effect (Like Kozilek) in the deck for protective purposes. Other instant speed options just don't cut it.

Tutors. I'm not a fan in a deck like this, But i did think of Muddle the Mixture for flexibility and Gamble. I also quite like Long Term Plans for the instant speed thing.
Cards like these might also warrant back the inclusion of Isochron Scepter.
Commander: GUBR Vial Smasher the Fierce / Thrasios, Triton Hero Big Mana - GBR Korvold, Fae-Cursed King Aristocrats - WBRC Queen Marchesa Pillow Fort - GUBW Atraxa, Praetors' Voice +1/+1 Counters - UR Jori En, Ruin Diver Storm - GW Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves Wolf Tribal - UWR Pramikon, Sky Rampart Superfriends - BRG Gyrus, Waker of Corpses GY Recursion - WBG Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper Lifegain - BUG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Petitioners self mill

Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW :foil: Bushwhacker Zoo -

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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 3 years ago

Hey there! I'm new to nexus but have been playing Jori En for a good while. I'm excited about some new cards. I posted this in a different forum but this seems like the spoto to be here now!


Some new cards might be playable here.

See the truth at worse is a sorcery time Antecipation, at best is a draw 3.

Double Vision It's a great effect but 5cmc do nothing when it comes just isnt where format is for many playgroups, but the effect is interesting.

Teferi's ageless insight Welp I'm big time excited for this. We cantrip often and Jori herself gets one more. This might be big. I will 100% try this and expect big results

Experimental Overload A body that gets a spell out of the GY Seems like a sneaky good effect, If this was instant I'd be so excited. But its worth thinking

and from Jumpstart

Immolating Gyre Is a potentially one sided board wipe, It's the card I'm most excited about right now


I wish we could have one or two more cast spell deals damage,it would be amazing! So I added a Sprite Dragon because I got the cute version and its often pretty good tbh

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 years ago

duducrash wrote:
3 years ago
Hey there! I'm new to nexus but have been playing Jori En for a good while. I'm excited about some new cards. I posted this in a different forum but this seems like the spoto to be here now!


Some new cards might be playable here.

See the truth at worse is a sorcery time Antecipation, at best is a draw 3.

Double Vision It's a great effect but 5cmc do nothing when it comes just isnt where format is for many playgroups, but the effect is interesting.

Teferi's ageless insight Welp I'm big time excited for this. We cantrip often and Jori herself gets one more. This might be big. I will 100% try this and expect big results

Experimental Overload A body that gets a spell out of the GY Seems like a sneaky good effect, If this was instant I'd be so excited. But its worth thinking

and from Jumpstart

Immolating Gyre Is a potentially one sided board wipe, It's the card I'm most excited about right now


I wish we could have one or two more cast spell deals damage,it would be amazing! So I added a Sprite Dragon because I got the cute version and its often pretty good tbh
Welcome to nexus!

I haven't actually played this deck in a while. It is a really fun deck though I just ended up with more than a few sort of token cantrip decks and I ended up playing this one a little less due to it. I also have a Sai, Master Thopterist cantrip artifacts deck which ended up feeling sort of similar in nature to this list and with it having been the newer deck it sort of eclipsed this list on me a bit for a while there. Then Covid and well..... its been a while since I played this deck.

See the Truth On the low end, I think its kind of on the lower end of playability and on the high end its incredible and I want to run like 12 of it. The problem is that for the most part I only have like six ways to get the high end results in this deck as I have it configured which mostly tend to be the Future Sight effects and the few ways of casting spells from graveyard I have. Its worth noting though that Fork effects will trigger it not having been cast from hand portion so it actually plays really well with them. I think ultimately I am probably going to end up passing on it but I think depending on how you configure your list it might vary based on contents and how many ways you can get that alternative effect of the draw three to happen.

Double Vision It has upsides and downsides to some of the more expensive spell double effects. Costing like two less mana on average is a huge bonus but this list also is designed right now to multi cast spells which this does terrible to assist. In the best case scenario this is still sort of a...... 6 mana move because we need to follow it up close behind with casting a spell. Its sort of like a five mana fork that promises future free forks in a way. It might be worth testing but I am still a bit shaky on it.

Teferi's Ageless Insight its not bad but keep in mind that Alhammarret's Archive has been around for some time. The cost to cast isn't really that extreme between the two but I will be honest that I really never have given much thought to Archive or this new card in this list. It is sort of a four mana do nothing card in that it needs followup but I guess I could possibly see it maybe making a spot in the list over something like Melek, Izzet Paragon. I would have to do some testing myself. I see the appeal but its still something I haven't really experienced or tested myself.

Experimental Overload I don't know where I really stand on this one. It does do a lot of things but I don't know how relevant a single token lacking evasion really would be. It might end up more on defense but I guess getting a decent sized blocker and recovering another spell to hand is alright. It reminds me of Archaeomancer with a better body and who triggers our spellcasts. From that standpoint, yea I might like it slightly more.

Immolating Gyre - For the most part I don't run much for sweepers in this deck in part because it slows the deck down to kill its own creatures. Lots of the tactics this deck uses involve getting a creature down then casting a bunch of spells which add up over time but don't play well with sweepers. This one is one sided though so I think it is really nice. Its downside is that its graveyard reliant but what it could do in tempo seems really high so I would say its somewhat high on my list of things to test. I opened a grand total of two packs of Jumpstart and happened to get one of these so I guess I do want to test it.

I haven't updated or played this list in ages. It really has probably been like 9 months or longer since I last played it given I had a kid at the end of last year and then Covid hit like right as I started playing again. This list just hasn't been my priority unfortunately in that time but it is a good one.
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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 3 years ago

Congrats on the kid! Hope you are all well!

Yeah, I havent touched the deck in a while either. I wanna try webcam stuff but I'm not there yet. I just have a bunch of time so I keep thinking about it. Actually I might have a couple decks more by the time quarentine ends. Which seems far where I am from right now.

I ended my last post talking about payoffs and how I wished we could slot a couple more. This made me think of a couple Ikoria cards.

Shark Typhoon Is a Metallurgic Summonings like card. One more mana without the added upside of saccing but with a big upside. It makes flying threats. I think If it it wasnt a pain in the ass to keep count of each shark P/T I would try and probably have some fun. If Bird Guy is often awesome, Typhoon should be too, I'd run this over Docent of Perfection // Final Iteration I think.

Ominous Seas I think it might be a reach. I think it should work well with wheels and not sure here, But I would really like another payoff, I think Jori runs well but It's really weak to being the focus of hate, It isnt an easy rebuild I think.


Also, I noticed the Kefnet the Mindful how good is the card? It's interesting for sure

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Post by duducrash » 3 years ago

New cards worth considering

Magmatic Channeler Most of the times it's a 4/4 for 1R. The effect isn't all bad, wish it would mill instead of exile.

Thieving Skydiver It's a good stuff card. I think most of the time it will steal a piece of ramp which is in itself pretty good.

Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge - A redraw. Works great with The Locust God [/card]

Windrider Wizard - In this deck it's effect is "whenever you cast a spell you may loot"

Deliberate - Instant preordain for 1 more.

Cleansing Wildfire - Destroy a land and draw for 1R. I'm not a fan of LD but it does replace itself

Kaza, Roil Chaser - Cute card the helps with cmc, it doesnt do much for me since most of my deck is 1 or 2 cmc but It might be cute somewhere else

Riverglide Pathway // Lavaglide Pathway I'd run this in the place of a basic mountain I guess

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Post by duducrash » 3 years ago

Swapped Mox Amber for Mox Tantalite because I hate having a dead amber.

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