Pramikon, Wall of Empire (Let's Brew!)

[Cyberium]

Pramikon, Sky Rampart

Please let me know if this thread should be in another forum.

For those of you who don't know, Empire is an alternative game rule which involves six or ten players (more is possible, but tedious). For six players, there would be two teams of three people, one Emperor with two Generals on his side, facing the other team. The seating position requires the Generals to flank their Emperor, and they are the only ones who could attack and be attacked by opponents immediately adjacent to them. Only when all generals on one side of an opposing team are defeated can you attack the Emperor directly (in this case of six players, one). It's possible to pass creatures to another player to enforce a stronger attack on one side, much like a RTS game.

Now, the fun thing about Pramikon and Mystic Barrier is that you could stop attacks from one side permanently. For example, if you are the Left General, naming "left" with Pramikon means your adjacent enemy can't attack you, and because of the Empire rule he can't attack any other player either. If you name "right", then you draw the fire but the other side would be safe from attacks.

So Pramikon lives up to its name as the Great Wall of your empire, and if your opponents pass troops to the other side you could just blink it and reverse the attack direction, making them run back and forth without success.

This idea is most effective in an Empire game, though I imagine Pramikon can be used in similar fashion in traditional multiplayer game also. Please let me know what you guys think.

[Hawk]

Pramikon as Commander makes it much easier to play a traditional control game - stuff like Story Circle, Stonehorn Dignitary, Aurification, Aetherspouts, even Fogs and single-target removal go a lot further when only one person is able to come at you.

As you noted, Blink is also interesting as it can allow you to suddenly "shift the flow" of the game and leave (admittedly, short-sighted and foolish) players in a situation where they are now facing attacks they weren't ready for, so running Blink or self-bounce seems like a must.

Unlike most "pillowfort" effects, Pramikon protects planeswalkers which is relevant and could enable a superfriends build.

Using Pramikon to effectively lock up a Chase/Empire/Emperor/Kingdoms game seems super unpleasant and I'd probably ask the Pramikon player to just not use Pramikon in those games.

[Sinis]

You can use Spark Double or Sakashima the Impostor in addition to Mystic Barrier, to stop all attacks as well, AND Spark Double/Sakashima are really flexible. Really, I think this direction probably best for a superfriends build (again Spark Double) in any case, but, I strongly suspect that this kind of build won't make for interesting games.

I would much rather build an aggro/midrange deck where you only have to defend against one player at a time while you lay out the beats (against one player at a time). Extra turns, extra attack steps. Since only one player can attack you at a time, you can easily dodge most game-ending creature strategies (especially with a flicker effect), and since you're in blue, you can maybe dodge the non-creature game-enders as well.

Basically, I see Pramikon as a way to narrow who you are likely to lose against while leveraging a fair strategy.

[hyalopterouslemur]

Wait, if you have both Pramikon and Mystic Barrier, do you just stop all attacks?

[LastConformist]

Wait, if you have both Pramikon and Mystic Barrier, do you just stop all attacks?

If they name different directions, yes. Same as if you have two Pramikons because of one of the copy effects described above. What's nice about Mystic Barrier is that you can change it every upkeep, so with both Mystic Barrier and Pramikon in play you can stop attacks for a while and then unseal the direction not named by Pramikon and launch an alpha strike against your opponent in that direction once you're ready.

I definitely think Pramikon is a superfriends or combo general.

[ISBPathfinder]

I have always found planeswalkers and extra turns to be very strong in emperor. Assuming you want to focus on emperor that would probably be my suggestion. I can't remember if it was standard for the whole team to share the same turn or not but extra turns kind of made it crazy.

[pokken]

Kinda inclines me to play goad effects and see what happens.

[Cyberium]

Using Pramikon to effectively lock up a Chase/Empire/Emperor/Kingdoms game seems super unpleasant and I'd probably ask the Pramikon player to just not use Pramikon in those games.

You have a point. It's no fun playing Empire only to shut down another team with Empire rules.

Wait, if you have both Pramikon and Mystic Barrier, do you just stop all attacks?

If they name different directions, yes. Same as if you have two Pramikons because of one of the copy effects described above. What's nice about Mystic Barrier is that you can change it every upkeep, so with both Mystic Barrier and Pramikon in play you can stop attacks for a while and then unseal the direction not named by Pramikon and launch an alpha strike against your opponent in that direction once you're ready.

I definitely think Pramikon is a superfriends or combo general.

Yeah, although I think stopping all attacks isn't as beneficial as stopping only one side. The reason being: You make yourself the enemy of the table by stopping all combat, it's better to keep one side open and manipulate/benefit from that opening. You just have to "switch side" using blink/bounce. Besides, keeping Mystic Barrier in hand would a plan B in case Pramikon got shot/shut down.

Kinda inclines me to play goad effects and see what happens.

Good point. Not only does goad require them to attack, you also ensure that they attack the player of your choosing, use blink to adjust battlefield accordingly.

I confess Pramikon is opening up more than I expected!

[pokken]

it's definitely a very powerful effect. Somewhat akin to having propaganda as your commander -- it slows down the onslaught and lets you play an effective long game from a variety of angles.

Luminarch ascension is a very good finisher with this deck.

[gilrad]

I kind of feel this breaks the cardinal rule of Emperor: Don't build decks tuned for Emperor.

Emperor is kind of balanced around the idea that everybody's bringing generic multiplayer decks to the table, there's lots of inefficient cards and strategies for both the generals and emperor. Things start to break down really quick when people begin making deck design decisions for Emperor - a prime example is planeswalker control, which quickly gets out of hand for all positions except left general (who is more vulnerable to attacks).

Anyway, shifting to more generic discussion of the commander, I really like the idea of blinking him, not just to shut down all attacks against you, but to also direct attacks to opponents you want to be attacked. Consider a four-player pod like this:
You - aggro 1
aggro 2 - control

On your turn, you choose attack left, forcing aggro 1 to attack into control on his turn. On control's turn, you can either blink your commander to choose right, forcing control to attack into aggro 1 if he's dangerous, or hold off on blinking to force control to attack into aggro 2. At any rate, at aggro 2's turn you're going to change direction to right to prevent aggro 2 from attacking you.
Not to mention, there's a host of creatures like the hunted series of cards that can fill players' boards with dudes to attack with.

[darrenhabib]

I've always been a big proponent of Mystic Barrier as an underplayed and underrated card, and I've stated this in threads in the past.

Pramikon is going to be best in a planeswalker build for sure, kind of scarily good.
I know I have a tendency to gravitate towards planeswalker builds, but I mean it literally has the word "planeswalker" on the card. A hint is a hint.
Jeskai first 3 cmc commander as well, so you can get it out fast and early and play it back out in the face of removal.

There are 91 walkers in Jeskai, so you really are spoiled for choice. One thing is that a lot of abilities are kind of bad in multiple, but Pramikon makes things more like a duel, and so walkers with abilities that shut down a creature or two are much much better. You can realistically lock down your attacking opponent and get your planeswalkers to their ultimate's quite successfully.