[SCD] Flametongue Kavu

[TheAmericanSpirit]

flametongue kavu
So what is the forum's opinion on this badass lizard? I had a spare slot in Korvold and slapped him in for nostalgia and because in edh, efficacy is secondary to the "cool" factor.

But in a land of cupacabras and other etb plus-ultra creatures around, am I just wasting space with this? Do any of you run it anywhere?

[Dunharrow]

You can maybe run in Mono-red, but don't think you run anywhere else. 4 damage is not enough to kill a lot of creatures you want to kill.

[umtiger]

flametongue kavu
So what is the forum's opinion on this badass lizard? I had a spare slot in Korvold and slapped him in for nostalgia and because in edh, efficacy is secondary to the "cool" factor.

But in a land of cupacabras and other etb plus-ultra creatures around, am I just wasting space with this? Do any of you run it anywhere?

I run FTK, but it's because I have a foil one from Planeshift. Your mileage may vary.

[Serenade]

Use with Zirda-Displacer? Probably with Recruiter of the Guard. I plug it in when I'm at 99. Removal is good, and four still kills a lot. I think there was a topic about it in the past half-year or so (or maybe RCOTD).

[Hawk]

FTK is hands down one of my favorite cards of all time in Red. I started playing in Saga, but "got gud" in Invasion-era standard, and this dude at uncommon was such a beast. The only thing better than turn 4 FTK was turn 3 FTK (thanks Elves!). The only thing better than that? Feeding him to Shivan Wurm for sick value the turn after, thus starting my life-long love affair with bouncing my own cards for fun and profit.

In Commander, it's a tough sell. According to my mathematical analysis, this thing will only hit around 63% of the creatures you see in the average game, and can kill only 57% of the creatures you actually want to kill. It does have a higher expected "value" than other removal in that range, however, since 4 is a magic number for killing many obnoxious commanders like Chulane, Teller of Tales, Kess, Dissident Mage, Teysa Karlov, Feather, the Redeemed or Atraxa, Praetors' Voice (which a Lightning Bolt or Inferno Titan might miss). I still occasionally run this in the odd Gruul or Mono-red list, but it isn't amazing - I think after years of being in Daretti he finally got cut, and when I converted Gahiji to Wort this guy didn't make that deck either.

[3drinks]

"If Kavu were printed today, it would be as much the epitome of power creep as it was then."

Standard would warp around it. Modern would see it, typically as a 2-of. Pioneer would jam it. It's finisher and removal in one. You get a four power body for four that also kills x/4s that aren't named Phyrexian Crusader.

Look, we all know Fire Imp is fair but strong. Imagine doubling it's output, and it's stats, for +1. Now you get it.

[darrenhabib]

I run it in my Greven, Predator Captain deck.

[Ardeyn]

I run it in Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier which plays cards such as Gratuitous Violence and Repercussion. It's pretty good in that deck and especially with the "support" cards.

[Sinis]

I've had trouble sleeving it up except in monored. I think there are just better cards to run, though I have a penchant for instant speed removal.

[ISBPathfinder]

"If Kavu were printed today, it would be as much the epitome of power creep as it was then."

Standard would warp around it. Modern would see it, typically as a 2-of. Pioneer would jam it. It's finisher and removal in one. You get a four power body for four that also kills x/4s that aren't named Phyrexian Crusader.

Look, we all know Fire Imp is fair but strong. Imagine doubling it's output, and it's stats, for +1. Now you get it.

Standard is kind of insane right now. I don't actually think it would make as big of an impact right now as you might think. There are definitely standard formats that it would rule but I don't think right not it would actually make a very big impact. I wouldn't really call current standard a healthy thing though either.

In commander, its ok. I can't say that I have really seen it in quite some time. I would say that generally speaking it seems like 2-3 damag is all you really need or you need 6 to get things done. The body is completely forgettable in this format so it comes down to decks utilizing red that are looking to abuse bodies in play and or flicker / recur things repeatedly. I would say in a vast most decks, the card doesn't do enough in commander. Where it really shines is somewhere that might Skullclamp then sac it to Ashnod's Altar and perhaps later reanimate it. If you don't run much to push for extra value off of creatures and looping ETBs I don't think its going to measure up. The 4/2 body on it just isn't relevant as pressure in this format when you compare it to instant speed cheaper removal. If you have ever tested Snapcaster Mage in this format it kind of sums up my thoughts on this card. The body you get from the card is just almost entirely irrelevant unless you plan to abuse / sac / loop it somehow. Lots of the power of Kavu in the past was the fact that the 4/2 was still relevant pressure which it just isn't in this format.

[umtiger]

If you don't run much to push for extra value off of creatures and looping ETBs I don't think its going to measure up. The 4/2 body on it just isn't relevant as pressure in this format when you compare it to instant speed cheaper removal. If you have ever tested Snapcaster Mage in this format it kind of sums up my thoughts on this card. The body you get from the card is just almost entirely irrelevant unless you plan to abuse / sac / loop it somehow. Lots of the power of Kavu in the past was the fact that the 4/2 was still relevant pressure which it just isn't in this format.

Ahh yes, back in the day, curve out like this...
Turn 1: Birds of Paradise
Turn 2: Fires of Yavimaya
Turn 3: Flametongue Kavu
Turn 4: Blastoderm or Saproling Burst

Like how were you supposed to come back from that?

[3drinks]

If you don't run much to push for extra value off of creatures and looping ETBs I don't think its going to measure up. The 4/2 body on it just isn't relevant as pressure in this format when you compare it to instant speed cheaper removal. If you have ever tested Snapcaster Mage in this format it kind of sums up my thoughts on this card. The body you get from the card is just almost entirely irrelevant unless you plan to abuse / sac / loop it somehow. Lots of the power of Kavu in the past was the fact that the 4/2 was still relevant pressure which it just isn't in this format.

Ahh yes, back in the day, curve out like this...
Turn 1: Birds of Paradise
Turn 2: Fires of Yavimaya
Turn 3: Flametongue Kavu
Turn 4: Blastoderm or Saproling Burst

Like how were you supposed to come back from that?

By "out skilling" your opponent with Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath 😂😂