Top-end replacement for Iona

[Dunharrow]

So, with the latest update, I need to take PE out of two decks and take Iona out of one deck.

I am not so concerned about PE because I have cards like Turnabout I had wanted to slot in.

But for Karador, Ghost Chieftain, I don't know what to put in for Iona. I had many ways to cheat her out, and now my best creatures are Ashen Rider and Yosei, the Morning Star. Are there other cards that could be good here?

Some of the Praetors come to mind. Sun Titan or Protean Hulk are combo enablers so they are also big tutor targets...

Iona was not a win condition. She was a way to catch up/protect your combo/lock down the table. Pretty good answer to a lot of things. Stop your opponent from comboing out. Stop them from countering your win condition. Slow down the game so you can stabilize. Help you lock down the table with stax pieces..

What card does this kind of work?
Vorinclex to help lock down the table? Won't stop someone from comboing out next turn and doesn't protect you very well.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded? Tutor for the effects you need? Grand Abolisher/Dampening Sphere/etc. It is versatile but also takes some set up and more slots for hate cards that are not in the deck.
Something else?

Or do I just replace her with a card I would like to have back in the deck, like Austere Command or Necromancy?

[pokken]

There are so many dumb fatties in Abzan colors. Got a link to your list?

[Hawk]

Iona was good at protection - does your list already run other high-end protective cards like Avacyn, Angel of Hope? That seems a natural fit if not. Other cards that protect you or restrict opponents at CMC 8+ are...

Blazing Archon
Archetype of Endurance
Void Winnower
Nullstone Gargoyle

The Praetors are also good, especially Sheoldred, Whispering One for a graveyard deck.

[toctheyounger]

A praetor would probably suit fine. Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite would likely be my choice as she has immediate board impact. Of course if your opponents don't combo with critters she's a little redundant, so maybe Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger would suit better. One of those two would suit fine though.

Alternately, Void Winnower is pretty good at locking a board up in my experience too.

[Eviljedi]

If you are not already playing it Archon of Valor's Reach can fill a very similar role to Iona as a lock/stax piece. Archon isn't generally going to be a hard lock on its own but can definitely stop opposing combos or protect your own if you know what type to name.

Just be careful as the effect is symmetric.

[Dunharrow]

Avacyn is not really interesting because I don't mind being wrathed - I can just recast everything from the graveyard.

I have never published a list online but I will on this site eventually.

For now, I realized I still had not found a spot for Phyrexian Altar so I did a one for one swap. This is just temporary as I need to finish my deck for Saturday.

Void Winnower and Archon of Valor's reach both seem interesting. I don't have spare copies of either so I will have to try to get my hands on them to test out.

I had actually taken Sheoldred out since Plaguecrafter seems better in most games with Karador... but it could be a solution for other Iona replacements.

[tarotplz]

Razaketh, the Foulblooded is the top dog as far as reanimation targets go, if you've built your deck correctly he should be able to win on the spot when he hits the board assuming you have a minimal amount of resources available to you. After all, Raza was powerful enough to create a new cEDH archetype by himself (Razacats) which can be considered at least moderately sucessful in a world of Flash Hulk & Co.

If you don't want to go over the top powerlevel wise or don't want to put a Razakethable combo into your deck, there are plenty of other great creatures available. Personally I've always had a soft spot for cards like Massacre Wurm and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite mostly just because of the faces token players make when they hit the table. Ofc they also have other uses aside from just being a boardclear. The Wurm for example will make it much harder for an opponent to combo out with a Blood Artist effect due to the life loss. Elesh Norn does the same, by not allowing a Blood Artist on the board in the first place.

[ilovesaprolings]

magister of worth?

[Dunharrow]

Razaketh, the Foulblooded is the top dog as far as reanimation targets go, if you've built your deck correctly he should be able to win on the spot when he hits the board assuming you have a minimal amount of resources available to you. After all, Raza was powerful enough to create a new cEDH archetype by himself (Razacats) which can be considered at least moderately sucessful in a world of Flash Hulk & Co.

If you don't want to go over the top powerlevel wise or don't want to put a Razakethable combo into your deck, there are plenty of other great creatures available. Personally I've always had a soft spot for cards like Massacre Wurm and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite mostly just because of the faces token players make when they hit the table. Ofc they also have other uses aside from just being a boardclear. The Wurm for example will make it much harder for an opponent to combo out with a Blood Artist effect due to the life loss. Elesh Norn does the same, by not allowing a Blood Artist on the board in the first place.

I am pretty sure I could use Razaketh to win without changing my deck.... I just need to tutor Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Saffi Eriksdotter, a win condition and a way to discard these cards (hand size or Mindslicer). Just need to put Reveillark in play and the game can end from there.

*Edit*
I am not sure what value this gives me over Protean Hulk though.

magister of worth?

I used to play it but the vote was never in my favour

[benjameenbear]

I too support the inclusion of Razaketh, the Foulblooded. He's better than Hulk because he can tutor as you need when you need it. The Hulk is more explosive but does put more cards onto the battlefield typically. Based on how I imagine your list to be, I think the precision and on-demand tutoring that Razaketh offers might be better for your deck.

Otherwise, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Void Winnower are the next best targets in my mind.

[tarotplz]

I am pretty sure I could use Razaketh to win without changing my deck.... I just need to tutor Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Saffi Eriksdotter, a win condition and a way to discard these cards (hand size or Mindslicer). Just need to put Reveillark in play and the game can end from there.

*Edit*
I am not sure what value this gives me over Protean Hulk though.

As far as Raza wincons go, this seems a bit mana&creature fodder-intensive, but sure, it can work.

Protean Hulk requires certain cards in the deck to be good (a Hulk Pile) and then tends to warp the entire deck around him. If you want that it's fine, but at that point we're building a cEDH style deck and I don't know if that's your intention.

[ilovesaprolings]

magister of worth?

I used to play it but the vote was never in my favour

Then you are playing it wrong bro. The vote is always in your favor.
They will never vote grace, because your graveyard is full of big monsters, "combos" like Shalai+Avacyn, mean etb effects and even meaner sacrifice effects.
They will vote condemn, and you'll laugh because you can either give your creatures indestructible, or you will just rebuild faster than them (you start with a 4/4 flyer and your commander costs wbg.
So maybe once in a blue moon they will vote grace.... and that will remember them for the next sixth months at least to never vote grace,

Sorry if you sounded a little condescending, but magister is the MVP in my karador deck, but since i don't know you decklist and your meta, i can't really tell

May i suggest then elderscale wurm or resolute archangel? They have some big flaws, but maybe they will interest you

[Dunharrow]

magister of worth?

I used to play it but the vote was never in my favour

Then you are playing it wrong bro. The vote is always in your favor.
They will never vote grace, because your graveyard is full of big monsters, "combos" like Shalai+Avacyn, mean etb effects and even meaner sacrifice effects.
They will vote condemn, and you'll laugh because you can either give your creatures indestructible, or you will just rebuild faster than them (you start with a 4/4 flyer and your commander costs wbg.
So maybe once in a blue moon they will vote grace.... and that will remember them for the next sixth months at least to never vote grace,

Sorry if you sounded a little condescending, but magister is the MVP in my karador deck, but since i don't know you decklist and your meta, i can't really tell

May i suggest then elderscale wurm or resolute archangel? They have some big flaws, but maybe they will interest you

I mean... in my deck, it was not good. Living Death is much better. The thing is, I almost always want reanimation, but then I don't get it. So a 6 mana wrath that leaves a 4/4 flyer is much worse to me than an actual 4 cmc wrath.
And if ever I am behind on board and want a wrath, I am not getting it. I probably get back a bunch of small creatures, because my Karador deck has a low curve, and I don't quite catch up.

I played Resolute Archangel for a little bit... it did not protect me from infinite combos very well.
Elderscale Wurm I never thought about before. I have to think about the Win Conditions I usually face and maybe it will line up well. But if someone is making infinite damage usually they can target the Wurm to get it off the board then finish me off.

I am pretty sure I could use Razaketh to win without changing my deck.... I just need to tutor Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Saffi Eriksdotter, a win condition and a way to discard these cards (hand size or Mindslicer). Just need to put Reveillark in play and the game can end from there.

*Edit*
I am not sure what value this gives me over Protean Hulk though.

As far as Raza wincons go, this seems a bit mana&creature fodder-intensive, but sure, it can work.

Protean Hulk requires certain cards in the deck to be good (a Hulk Pile) and then tends to warp the entire deck around him. If you want that it's fine, but at that point we're building a cEDH style deck and I don't know if that's your intention.

Hulk did not need a 'hulk pile' in my deck. The cards were already there. Very easy to combo out. Get Karmic Guide and whatever, return hulk to play, sac again to get saffi erksdotter and probably zulaport cuthroat and whatever, saffi Karmic Guide to get hulk again get reveillark.

Raza's issue is the mana and creature requirements. I can use PH to tutor anything in my deck with no mana investment and nothing but PH and a sac outlet. Once I have Saffi-Reveillark-Karmic Guide, I can use PH to tutor all cmc 6 or less creatures, which includes Mindslicer and Fierce Empath. Fierce Empath can then get my Ashen Rider or whatever else I might need, and I can sac mindslicer to reanimate the bigger creatures.

Yeah, I am now convinced Raza does not help my deck.
I am back to Void Winnower and Archon of Valor's reach.

Elesh Norn is okay but if I want to wrath I have other ways of wrathing. I think I want something that disrupts interaction and allows me to stabilize. Void Winnower probably does it best.

[ilovesaprolings]

Sounds like your deck and meta is way more competitive than mine
I think the bast cards were already suggested. If you want protection i second archetype of endurance. There is also shalai, voice of plenty which is similar but weaker.

Otherwise, if you want a completely different creature, a small utility one, but that still can lock/protect, there is the new ranger-captain of eos. i'm eager to try it in karador, but it's so damn expensive...

[3drinks]

Speaking as a Kaalia player, Iona hasn't even been good for years, and I can play it "for free". Couldn't even imagine paying full retail on it. I haven't even felt the need for it, to tutour for it, anything, but if you must play a high cost W beater, it's hard to do better than Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.

[tarotplz]

Hulk did not need a 'hulk pile' in my deck. The cards were already there. Very easy to combo out. Get Karmic Guide and whatever, return hulk to play, sac again to get saffi erksdotter and probably zulaport cuthroat and whatever, saffi Karmic Guide to get hulk again get reveillark.

Raza's issue is the mana and creature requirements. I can use PH to tutor anything in my deck with no mana investment and nothing but PH and a sac outlet. Once I have Saffi-Reveillark-Karmic Guide, I can use PH to tutor all cmc 6 or less creatures, which includes Mindslicer and Fierce Empath. Fierce Empath can then get my Ashen Rider or whatever else I might need, and I can sac mindslicer to reanimate the bigger creatures.

Yeah, I am now convinced Raza does not help my deck.
I am back to Void Winnower and Archon of Valor's reach.

Elesh Norn is okay but if I want to wrath I have other ways of wrathing. I think I want something that disrupts interaction and allows me to stabilize. Void Winnower probably does it best.

I guess you can call it whatever you want, but the thing you're describing is a Hulk Pile.

It's a pretty classic one for Abzan colors too. Once you have Saffi Eriksdotter and Karmic Guide with any sac outlet and a Blood Artist effect you've already won the game, no need for any more "tutoring" with Protean Hulk

Also Razaketh, the Foulblooded is not meant to assemble a clunky combo made from high cmc stuff. The classic Razakats combo uses Leonin Relic-Warder and Animate Dead to get infinite tutors (at least as long as you can pay 2 life for Raza) to get whatever you need for your win and then usually wins with a Blood Artist effect after stopping the loop and tutoring for another reanimation enchantment like Necromancy.

To help with creating more bodies to sac to Raza at first, the first tutor can get Life // Death to make as many creatures as you need.

[shermanido37]

Terastodon or Bane of Progress? No evasion, but gets rid of troublesome noncreatures which can be a pain.
As a Karador player I can definitely recommend Razaketh as a card that just does it all.
She's not popular but Izoni, Thousand-Eyed is great in my opinion. It beefs up when you have creatures in your yard, can sac creatures to gain value, and loves being sacrificed herself (for something else) so she can come back and get even more stuff into play. Hornet Queen has also saved me from a lot of flying dragons.

[bubskee]

Vilis, Broker of Blood

Is a solid include, though less staxy. That said, immediate value with any fetches/other lifeloss. Plus, new card feel goods!

[Dunharrow]

Hulk did not need a 'hulk pile' in my deck. The cards were already there. Very easy to combo out. Get Karmic Guide and whatever, return hulk to play, sac again to get saffi erksdotter and probably zulaport cuthroat and whatever, saffi Karmic Guide to get hulk again get reveillark.

Raza's issue is the mana and creature requirements. I can use PH to tutor anything in my deck with no mana investment and nothing but PH and a sac outlet. Once I have Saffi-Reveillark-Karmic Guide, I can use PH to tutor all cmc 6 or less creatures, which includes Mindslicer and Fierce Empath. Fierce Empath can then get my Ashen Rider or whatever else I might need, and I can sac mindslicer to reanimate the bigger creatures.

Yeah, I am now convinced Raza does not help my deck.
I am back to Void Winnower and Archon of Valor's reach.

Elesh Norn is okay but if I want to wrath I have other ways of wrathing. I think I want something that disrupts interaction and allows me to stabilize. Void Winnower probably does it best.

I guess you can call it whatever you want, but the thing you're describing is a Hulk Pile.

It's a pretty classic one for Abzan colors too. Once you have Saffi Eriksdotter and Karmic Guide with any sac outlet and a Blood Artist effect you've already won the game, no need for any more "tutoring" with Protean Hulk

Also Razaketh, the Foulblooded is not meant to assemble a clunky combo made from high cmc stuff. The classic Razakats combo uses Leonin Relic-Warder and Animate Dead to get infinite tutors (at least as long as you can pay 2 life for Raza) to get whatever you need for your win and then usually wins with a Blood Artist effect after stopping the loop and tutoring for another reanimation enchantment like Necromancy.

To help with creating more bodies to sac to Raza at first, the first tutor can get Life // Death to make as many creatures as you need.

What I meant was that I already had these cards in my deck - I did not need to allocate more space. For the Razakats I would need to put in Leonin Relic-Warder in my deck... so while Razaketh is good, I don't see how it benefits me more than Protean Hulk for winning the game.

Iona was not there for winning the game. She was there for protecting the win or to stop an opponent from winning.
I imagine 9/10 I would get PH or Ashen Rider... but every once in a while Iona was the right card to tutor into play.

[toctheyounger]

What win cons are you up against predominantly? I still feel like Norn or Winnower are your best options at the top end, but Terastodon is a solid board control piece for me in Nissa, so it might be worth considering. Thing is, it really does depend what you’re trying to stop happening. Norn stops swarms and lots of creature based win cons, Winnower stops...a weird variety of things, and Terastodon stops non creature win cons. To my mind it depends what specific tool you need.

That being said Winnower is closest mechanically to Iona, so my money is still there.

There’s probably control options lower on the curve too - Gaddock Teeg and Sanctum Prelatecould easily stop specific things happening - unless you need a higher CMC, but I’m not sure why you would unless you’re running Birthing Pod.

[tarotplz]

What I meant was that I already had these cards in my deck - I did not need to allocate more space. For the Razakats I would need to put in Leonin Relic-Warder in my deck... so while Razaketh is good, I don't see how it benefits me more than Protean Hulk for winning the game.

Iona was not there for winning the game. She was there for protecting the win or to stop an opponent from winning.
I imagine 9/10 I would get PH or Ashen Rider... but every once in a while Iona was the right card to tutor into play.

Okok, I see. I didn't know what was already in your deck, but I guess Protean Hulk was in there even before Iona, Shield of Emeria got the boot?

Regardless, you're right, Hulk is very likely the strongest wincon you have available for this sort of deck. Raza would simply provide you with a 2nd line to win off of another combo. Leonin Relic-Warder is at least decently usefull on his own, so I don't think it's a huge deckbuilding cost.

Maybe post your decklist? That way we can probably help find the right thing for your needs much more reliably.

[WizardMN]

They will vote condemn, and you'll laugh because you can either give your creatures indestructible, or you will just rebuild faster than them (you start with a 4/4 flyer and your commander costs WBG.

Do you ever get to a scenario where your opponents still vote Condemnation when your creatures have Indestructible? Since your opponents will know if your creatures have Indestructible, I am curious if they still vote for their stuff to get blown up while leaving your board intact.

On Topic: Archon of Valor's Reach would probably be my vote with Void Winnower a close second. I think Archon wins out since most responses to any combo you are trying to assemble is going to be an Instant. If you are trying to protect a lock, Void Winnower likely wins out but Archon can still be good there too. I don't think naming Instant or Sorcery hurts you much at all so it is certainly asymmetrical.

Maybe Dragonlord Dromoka if you are trying to combo off on one turn? It only protects you on your turn so maybe that is not enough?

[ilovesaprolings]

They will vote condemn, and you'll laugh because you can either give your creatures indestructible, or you will just rebuild faster than them (you start with a 4/4 flyer and your commander costs WBG.

Do you ever get to a scenario where your opponents still vote Condemnation when your creatures have Indestructible? Since your opponents will know if your creatures have Indestructible, I am curious if they still vote for their stuff to get blown up while leaving your board intact.

Well if i have Sheoldred, Avacyn, ashen rider and archetype of endurance in the graveyard usually they will vote condemn no matter what XD