Sefris of the Kind of Obvious Ways

[yeti1069]

Made a couple changes to my decklist.

IN Oversold Cemetery

I use Phyrexian Reclamation, but I'm wondering if the Oversold Cemetery might be a better choice.

I've recently started playing Sefris, have loved it so far. Would appreciate any feedback anyone has on my list. My current deck.

Edited to add: My playgroup doesn't really do infinites, so I've left out all the common ones like Abdel, Acerak, Reveilark, etc.

Cards I don't think are worth including in Sefris:
Shakedown Heavy -- no ETB, gives a choice to opponents for any real benefit, not actually that impressive a beatstick, no value in reanimating
Grand Abolisher -- we tend not to cast a lot of spells, so the discount isn't as useful as it might be elsewhere, and other than annoying the table, there's not much value in a tiny bit of stax
Stormscape Familiar is in the same boat. I'll also note that mana discounts, especially for subsets of our spells, are only better than mana rocks/lands if they're enabling you to cast 2+ spells/turn. This also isn't great as a 2-drop, since it does nothing to help cast our commander.
Shadow Kin -- the mill is ok for triggering Sefris on our turn, but that's the easiest time to trigger our commander anyway, and we don't want to be exiling our valuable creatures from our grave
Sensei's Top just looks unnecessary here--if you're self-milling 3+ cards at a time, the Top doesn't do anything to affect those instances, while it also doesn't contribute to any piece of the deck's game plan, and has no synergies. As such, it's just a time-waster and mana-waster.
Zur -- you only have 8 enchantments in the deck, and none are so powerful you need a slow tutor engine for them.
Enhanced Surveillance -- you have very little surveil in the deck, so the first part isn't doing much of anything for you, and if you're running it for the grave protection, I'll say both that Perpetual Timepiece is probably better most of the time, and that if you lean a little more into instant-speed looting than into self-mill (and make use of Tortured Existence--the #1 enabler for Sefris) you can shrug off a grave exile or two over the course of a game.

I find it odd that your group is so down on infinites, yet ok with all the other high-power cards you're running.

In any case, you can look at the other lists here for ideas for the deck. I'll note that you're kind of light on ETB and venture creatures (ETB or otherwise), creature-based removal, finishers, synergistic (creature-based) card draw, and board wipes. Creatures with attack or combat damage triggers can be valuable, but much of the value in the deck comes from gaining immediate impact from a reanimation. I also think that, if you're specifically avoiding combos, you'd be better served going down on tutors and up on draw/looting effects. Tutors are inherently negative tempo, and depending on what you're searching for, you may then also need a way to discard it for Sefris to make use of it. I, personally, also feel like every noncreature in the deck makes Sefris weaker overall, so I prefer to lean into creature-based effects as much as possible.

Over all, your decks looks like it's torn between high-power Magic and low-to-mid-power "I threw some stuff from my binder in" cards.

A last note I'll make is that without an infinite sac outlet, like Viscera Seer or the (painful to do repeatedly) Yawgmoth, Thran Physician Reveillark doesn't go infinite, and is very much worth including on its own merits--it gives you protection vs wipes for Sefris, and is a value engine with enough creatures with the appropriate power in the deck.

[PrimevalCommander]

I use Phyrexian Reclamation, but I'm wondering if the Oversold Cemetery might be a better choice.

I've recently started playing Sefris, have loved it so far. Would appreciate any feedback anyone has on my list. My current deck.

Edited to add: My playgroup doesn't really do infinites, so I've left out all the common ones like Abdel, Acerak, Reveilark, etc.

Oversold Cemetery is going to be a bit slow, no doubt about it. But my deck just wants a little recurring value. I think Phyrexian Reclamation is a better card.

Yeti has some good feedback. I'll make quick mention of the cards you have listed in your sideboard that I think would find a good place in the deck.

• Doom Whisperer
• Living Death
• Massacre Wurm
• Mulldrifter
• Noxious Gearhulk
• Selfless Spirit
• Teferi, Master of Time
• Tortured Existence
• Troll of Khazad-dum
• Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator
• Archon of Cruelty
• Boromir, Warden of the Tower
• Cyclonic Rift

Many of these cards work toward what Yeti is mentioning about creatures having more immediate impact and using the creature slot at one of the core means of interaction. This is because with the right loot engines, sac outlets, and discard outlets, you have a lot of flexibility to reanimate creatures at instant speed by completing dungeons; and having them impact the board turns these looters and others into hard interaction. Having everything you need in the creature slot can be valuable when you hit your stride and start getting multiple reanimation triggers per turn cycle. That is not to say remove all non-creature interaction, because I still like having a couple of instant speed answers for when Sefris is off the board, but I definitely want at least two creatures for every important card type (draw, removal, ramp, loot, wipe, etc).

[Mutinee]

Shakedown Heavy -- no ETB, gives a choice to opponents for any real benefit, not actually that impressive a beatstick, no value in reanimating
Grand Abolisher -- we tend not to cast a lot of spells, so the discount isn't as useful as it might be elsewhere, and other than annoying the table, there's not much value in a tiny bit of stax
Stormscape Familiar is in the same boat. I'll also note that mana discounts, especially for subsets of our spells, are only better than mana rocks/lands if they're enabling you to cast 2+ spells/turn. This also isn't great as a 2-drop, since it does nothing to help cast our commander.
Shadow Kin -- the mill is ok for triggering Sefris on our turn, but that's the easiest time to trigger our commander anyway, and we don't want to be exiling our valuable creatures from our grave
Sensei's Top just looks unnecessary here--if you're self-milling 3+ cards at a time, the Top doesn't do anything to affect those instances, while it also doesn't contribute to any piece of the deck's game plan, and has no synergies. As such, it's just a time-waster and mana-waster.
Zur -- you only have 8 enchantments in the deck, and none are so powerful you need a slow tutor engine for them.
Enhanced Surveillance -- you have very little surveil in the deck, so the first part isn't doing much of anything for you, and if you're running it for the grave protection, I'll say both that Perpetual Timepiece is probably better most of the time, and that if you lean a little more into instant-speed looting than into self-mill (and make use of Tortured Existence--the #1 enabler for Sefris) you can shrug off a grave exile or two over the course of a game.

I appreciate the feedback and discussion around what is quickly becoming my current favorite Commander to play. Thoughts on each of the cards you mentioned:

Shakedown Heavy -- Gives me an extra card per turn as early as turn 3 (but normally turn 4). I've yet to have anyone say early game "sure, hit me for 6", I've been given the card draw every time instead. Also beefy enough to handle a fair amount of hits.
Grand Abolisher and Stormscape-- I'm gonna lump them together and I'm assuming you mean the Arbiter not Abolisher. This one and Stormscape are given me food for thought because you're right, the discounts aren't that impactful to our commander, though it has helped me with Commander tax as well as hardcast rather than reanimate some creatures. These would probably be my first 2 cuts.
Shadow Kin -- I've only had it hit the table 2x so far, and both times the value I've gotten from it were from copying one of my opponents creatures, because you're right triggering our Commander on our own turn is the easiest time to do it. Would also consider this my number 3 cut if I made a change.
Sensei's Top - I'm going to strongly disagree on this one. Not sure where you see I'm self milling 3 cards a turn. Being able to stack my deck before surveils (as limited as mine are) is nice, being able to stack my deck to answer for when I'm mana short is nice, being able to instant speed hail mary for a free counterspell (Force or Fierce) and draw it has saved me, this card has done WORK in this deck and would only do more if I leaned into surveiling more.
Zur -- He's there because in early to mid game he's a 4 drop that is a guaranteed Rhystic/Mystic/Land Tax/Necro/Animate Dead depending on what I need/want that is uncounterable. If I can get 1 hit in off of him, he's done his job. If I can get 2 or more hits off of him, he's positive EV in my opinion.

Other thoughts:

I find it odd that your group is so down on infinites, yet ok with all the other high-power cards you're running.

Not sure what is odd about it. Our mentality is if you want to win via beating me down with high power stuff, that's fine. If you want to win out of the blue with a random infinite loop, that feels cheesy.

A last note I'll make is that without an infinite sac outlet, like Viscera Seer

I had her in there for quite a few games and with the exception of one time I never felt like I was using her much, she was just taking up space in the deck.

PrimevalCommander mentioned some other cards I've tried:

Doom Whisperer
Living Death
Massacre Wurm
Mulldrifter
Noxious Gearhulk
Selfless Spirit
Teferi, Master of Time
Tortured Existence
Troll of Khazad-dum
Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator
Archon of Cruelty
Boromir, Warden of the Tower
Cyclonic Rift

For each:

Doom Whisperer - Never my first choice I felt like when I was reanimating something, there was always something I wanted out more
Living Death - I never once had it line up where it was helping me more than at least one of my opponents, so I cut
Massacre Wurm - If the -2/-2 stayed I'd keep, but otherwise what's it really doing? 2 dmg each time an opponent's creature dies didn't have a big impact in our games, more just an annoyance
Mulldrifter - 3 mana to draw 2 cards and get a Sefris trigger on my own turn felt like a let down
Noxious Gearhulk - Never my first choice to reanimate, and if casting I would always go for Plaguecrafter or Ork Commander for half the mana and 3x the impact (all players not just 1)
Selfless Spirit - A hard cut, one I might put back in. If it had flash it would be an insta-include.
Teferi, Master of Time - I'd love to put this card back in, but it never lasts more than a turn cycle for me with my pod so I ended up pitching it
Tortured Existence - Will probably put this back in, I find myself missing it
Troll of Khazad-dum - Swampcycle was nice, but was never once a reanimate target for me and I didn't find myself cycling often, was more a dead card
Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator - Would you swap out for Rona? Arguably does more.
Archon of Cruelty - Another casualty of "not what I'd go to bring back first" so many times that I just cut it
Boromir, Warden of the Tower - Probably the first card I'd bring back if I cut Arbiter and Shadowscape
Cyclonic Rift - Tempting, probably the second card I'd bring back if I cut

Have either of you tried Dakkon, Shadow Slayer out at all? Was wondering if he might be worth it as another surveil option that is also a creature exiler if need be.

[yeti1069]

I appreciate the feedback and discussion around what is quickly becoming my current favorite Commander to play. Thoughts on each of the cards you mentioned:

Shakedown Heavy -- Gives me an extra card per turn as early as turn 3 (but normally turn 4). I've yet to have anyone say early game "sure, hit me for 6", I've been given the card draw every time instead. Also beefy enough to handle a fair amount of hits.

I guess it's a meta difference, but many tables I've played at, and certainly ones running high-power interaction like you are, wouldn't provide card advantage to an opponent if they could help it. I just feel like, if you want to draw +1 card/turn, there are more reliable ways of doing so for the same CMC, and if what you want is a beater, there are more impactful options. Personally, I don't like giving opponents the choice of what I'm getting, especially if there is an obvious preference (I'm not including this guy as a beatstick).

Grand Abolisher and Stormscape-- I'm gonna lump them together and I'm assuming you mean the Arbiter not Abolisher. This one and Stormscape are given me food for thought because you're right, the discounts aren't that impactful to our commander, though it has helped me with Commander tax as well as hardcast rather than reanimate some creatures. These would probably be my first 2 cuts.

Definitely meant the Arbiter. I think a benefit to helping with commander tax is too narrow, and again, a mana rock does the same, but helps cast ALL the spells in the deck.

Shadow Kin -- I've only had it hit the table 2x so far, and both times the value I've gotten from it were from copying one of my opponents creatures, because you're right triggering our Commander on our own turn is the easiest time to do it. Would also consider this my number 3 cut if I made a change.

I run Shadow Kin in my Captain N'ghathrod deck, which specifically wants to mill opponents then steal creatures from their yards...and even there I find it somewhat disappointing. It's not uncommon to mill 0 creatures, or nothing of real value. There are just much better options for Sefris.
[quote[
Sensei's Top - I'm going to strongly disagree on this one. Not sure where you see I'm self milling 3 cards a turn. Being able to stack my deck before surveils (as limited as mine are) is nice, being able to stack my deck to answer for when I'm mana short is nice, being able to instant speed hail mary for a free counterspell (Force or Fierce) and draw it has saved me, this card has done WORK in this deck and would only do more if I leaned into surveiling more.[/quote] ...the card we discussed right above this mills for 3. For surveil, I don't think you have enough for this to be that relevant. Don't get me wrong, Top is a good card, but I find that in lists that don't have any specific synergy with it the card could be cut for something more impactful.

Zur -- He's there because in early to mid game he's a 4 drop that is a guaranteed Rhystic/Mystic/Land Tax/Necro/Animate Dead depending on what I need/want that is uncounterable. If I can get 1 hit in off of him, he's done his job. If I can get 2 or more hits off of him, he's positive EV in my opinion.

Again, maybe a meta difference, but in my experience Zur is kill on sight. Needing to attack to get your enchantment is far from guaranteed.

Other thoughts:

I find it odd that your group is so down on infinites, yet ok with all the other high-power cards you're running.

Not sure what is odd about it. Our mentality is if you want to win via beating me down with high power stuff, that's fine. If you want to win out of the blue with a random infinite loop, that feels cheesy.

A last note I'll make is that without an infinite sac outlet, like Viscera Seer

I had her in there for quite a few games and with the exception of one time I never felt like I was using her much, she was just taking up space in the deck.

Fair, I guess. I count Reveillark as one of the best pieces of protection for Sefris vs board wipes, and a useful tool alongside limited sac outlets, like Phyrexian Tower. Depends a little on the density of creatures with power < 3 in the deck. Mine has plenty of high value.

PrimevalCommander mentioned some other cards I've tried:


For each:

Doom Whisperer - Never my first choice I felt like when I was reanimating something, there was always something I wanted out more

I usual hard-cast this, but will reanimate it as a top priority if I don't already have a way to venture on each player's turn. It costs a lot of life to do so, but going through a dungeon per turn cycle is going to push you pretty far ahead.

Living Death - I never once had it line up where it was helping me more than at least one of my opponents, so I cut

I would say that probably means you need more grave hate, with or without LD.

Massacre Wurm - If the -2/-2 stayed I'd keep, but otherwise what's it really doing? 2 dmg each time an opponent's creature dies didn't have a big impact in our games, more just an annoyance

I don't run it, but it's in the top 5 cards outside my list. It straight-up kills go-wide decks, and can execute even those with a handful of mana dorks or utility creatures if they've gotten beaten up a little. It also is a strong disincentive to Wrath the board.

Mulldrifter - 3 mana to draw 2 cards and get a Sefris trigger on my own turn felt like a let down

There are a handful of similar cards, but this deck specifically wants creatures it can reanimate for card advantage AND wants ways to trigger Sefris. This does both (and plays very well with Reveillark).

Noxious Gearhulk - Never my first choice to reanimate, and if casting I would always go for Plaguecrafter or Ork Commander for half the mana and 3x the impact (all players not just 1)

I actually prefer Primaris Eliminator for being cheaper to hard cast, and for the option to wipe out a number of small creatures, which, by the way, I've used as often as I've used the single-target removal mode--a point in favor of also including Massacre Wurm. Sometimes -2/-2 to the board absolutely wrecks someone.

Selfless Spirit - A hard cut, one I might put back in. If it had flash it would be an insta-include.

It protects Sefris (and the rest of your board) while also triggering Sefris, and is cheap enough to come down before the commander.

Teferi, Master of Time - I'd love to put this card back in, but it never lasts more than a turn cycle for me with my pod so I ended up pitching it

This may be due to the lower number of interaction creatures you're running, or fewer creatures in general? I find that Teferi can usually go 2 turn cycles, or close enough, since, again, it's providing a trip through a dungeon per turn cycle, and can protect itself, while I often have the biggest creatures on the field (and most of them fly). Still, 4 mana to loot 4 times, scry 1, make a treasure, drain 1, draw a card, and gain X life where is the amount of damage thrown at Teferi instead of you is a very good rate. Not to mention forcing opponents into bad attacks that you can block for advantage.

Tortured Existence - Will probably put this back in, I find myself missing it

This is one of the top 5 cards in Sefris. Period.

Troll of Khazad-dum - Swampcycle was nice, but was never once a reanimate target for me and I didn't find myself cycling often, was more a dead card

I haven't run it, but I plainscycle Angel of the Ruins regularly. I might try out this guy in place of a mana rock since the deck mostly does fine making its land drops and playing on curve.

Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator - Would you swap out for Rona? Arguably does more.

I think I'm on 5 or 6 2-mana looters now. I would put this in over something else, not in place of another looter. These are some of our best set-up cards: they come down before Sefris and can provide a trigger as soon as the commander comes down. After that, they're instant-speed triggers, and are card-neutral. I would 100% run this over the Familiar, for example.

Archon of Cruelty - Another casualty of "not what I'd go to bring back first" so many times that I just cut it

If you'd reanimate Plaguecrafter, why wouldn't you reanimate this? Admittedly, the former removes a creature for everyone, but this is hand disruption, life loss, card draw, and life gain, in addition to the edict, and is then repeatable with a big, flying body. This is often one of the first cards I'll reanimate. I would only pick Plaguecrafter over this if 2 or more opponents had only 1 high-value creature or planeswalker in play, but that's fairly rare. More often, everyone has 2-3 creatures at least, with at least 1 of low- or middling-value that they may not want to give up, but for which doing so doesn't significantly impact their game plans.

Have either of you tried Dakkon, Shadow Slayer out at all? Was wondering if he might be worth it as another surveil option that is also a creature exiler if need be.
[/quote]
If Teferi isn't surviving a turn cycle, why would Dakkon? Teferi is also MUCH better here. I would always prefer to loot 1 than surveil 2, even as a straight comparison, but Teferi vs Dakkon is almost always loot 2 vs surveil 2, and that's not contest at all. Often, it's going to be loot 3 or loot 4 vs surveil 2. Then Teferi's ultimate is terrifying, while Dakkon's is almost entirely irrelevant here. Sure, that may mean it gets targeted down less, but you could also just run any number of creatures, artifacts, or enchantments that surveil 1 or surveil 2, depending on whether you prefer deck synergy (creatures) or protection vs removal (artifacts/enchantments).

I find that Sefris is at its best when it can chug through a dungeon as fast as possible (once per turn cycle or faster), and when it is recurring threats that also impact the board (removal, huge life swings, protection for your board, etc...).

Oh, I also don't think I'd bother with Delney in your list: you only have 5 creatures besides Sefris that it benefits, and for Sefris, it's only giving you the extra reanimate upon dungeon completion. That's not nothing, but I don't think it's worth including almost exclusively for that. If you wanted that specifically, you could run any of the other 'clone but nonlegendary' cards to copy Sefris and double up on all your venture triggers, while also providing the flexibility of cloning one of your bombs.

[PrimevalCommander]

Everything @yeti1069 said about the cards I mentioned as potentially good includes are exactly what I was thinking, so I will just give his post a big

Also to note that adding two or three of those cards individually is good, but adding 10-12 of those as part of a creature-based interaction suite just makes your Sefris triggers hyper valuable and a self feeding engine of triggers and value.

Also I have not gotten to the point of diminishing return on looters yet at 7 (counting Ghostly Pilferer) since any redundant looters just get cycled away for triggers and value. Even having 2 active is nice to churn through the deck looking for high value cards and getting more Sefris triggers per turn cycle.

I look at my creature package holistically to create a synergistic mix of looting, drawing, reanimating, and interacting all in the creature slot, which build upon themselves to create a cascade of value when dungeons start rolling. Doom Whisperer second mention being able to complete a dungeon each turn cycle all by himself with no additional investment outside of life. I'd slam him as my first reanimate, then just use surveil activation to get another creature for free by my next turn. Pays you back for the Sefris reanimate in only 1 rotation. S-tier synergy here along with Tortured Existence.

[yeti1069]

I want to add that while Lost Mine is the preferred dungeon normally for its speed to completion, The Undercity provides so much value that I believe it's worthwhile including 3-5 ways to gain the Initiative. Although The Undercity is 1 room longer, since you either gain an upkeep trigger on your following turn, or if it has been stolen, connecting for combat damage with the controlling player will get you a trigger, you're not far behind Lost Mine in the first cycle, and then on pace the 2nd.

White Plume Adventurer works very well alongside the tap looters.
I happen to really like Sarevok's Tome, and find that I'm generally quite happy activating its ability in response to a spell I want to interact with--sometimes I get a counter, other times I'm just getting some valuable piece, unless I've recently scryed and know my top card already.

I haven't updated my list in a while, but for looters I believe I'm on:

• Ghostly Pilferer
• Ledger Shredder
• Rona, Herald of Invasion
• Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator
• Likeness Looter
• Tortured Existence

And I may have slotted Merfolk Looter back in.

[Mutinee]

Oh, I also don't think I'd bother with Delney in your list: you only have 5 creatures besides Sefris that it benefits, and for Sefris, it's only giving you the extra reanimate upon dungeon completion.

Unless I'm playing it wrong, Delney is giving me the extra reanimate AND the extra venture. I've had Delney out multiple times in games, she has a huge impact.

Do either of you have an up to date Moxfield I could check out? I might goldfish it a bit and see how it plays compared to my current set-up.

[yeti1069]

Oh, I also don't think I'd bother with Delney in your list: you only have 5 creatures besides Sefris that it benefits, and for Sefris, it's only giving you the extra reanimate upon dungeon completion.

Unless I'm playing it wrong, Delney is giving me the extra reanimate AND the extra venture. I've had Delney out multiple times in games, she has a huge impact.

This isn't up to date, but more so than the list here, I think: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/pidOkfkEXEes3DPDHboZmA

Do either of you have an up to date Moxfield I could check out? I might goldfish it a bit and see how it plays compared to my current set-up.

Sefris triggers only once per turn on the venture. Copying it won't do anything.

[Mutinee]

Sefris triggers only once per turn on the venture. Copying it won't do anything.

Well crud. Maybe a Strionic Resonator type effect instead?

[yeti1069]

Sefris triggers only once per turn on the venture. Copying it won't do anything.

Well crud. Maybe a Strionic Resonator type effect instead?

You can try that. I'm not a fan of Resonator--I feel like I rarely have mana open to spend on copying a trigger in any of the decks I've given it a shot. That said, if more triggers are what you want, clones are probably the way to go.

[PrimevalCommander]

I got a game in with Sefris this weekend and it did hilarious Sefris things. Good top deck had me curve into Sefris on 3 (go budget mana base), and a turn 4 Tortured Existence that didn't get answered for ~5 turns. So that set me up pretty good. Sefris stayed in play for much of the game as well. I even bounced back from a full-send Farewell because Lost Mine was set to pop and I had Buried Alive in hand. So I just dropped Sefris, cast Buried Alive for Radiant Solar + Stuff, and I recovered fast enough to close out the game from there. Zetalpa, Primal Dawn anchored my field for several turns before the Farewell.

I did see Seasoned Dungeoneer and I like it. It's not in my favorites pile, but it is a genuine role player mainly because the protection all but guarantees extra initiative triggers if it sticks around. Low mana cost, inserts the Initiative into the game, steals it back easily, filters some cards with explore, and bins creatures if needed, solid include.

Also I witnessed the magic of Thorough Investigation + Tivit, Seller of Secrets. Tivit came down early and got me 3 *clues* then was answered. I let the *clues* sit because I had Tortured Existence cycling creatures like a mad man, so I didn't need the draw. Mid game I find Thorough Investigation and am sitting on a bank of *clues*. I was able to power through Lost Mine the turn it came down + draw some cards for my trouble. I'll be making a mental note on other clue makers that have other uses for this deck. Thorough Investigation could become a strong venture engine with the right support, I just didn't bother looking too closely at it until now. I mean, we aren't talking about high power synergy, but I was impressed with the interaction for my target power level. Made me smile.

I'm now going to pick up an Officious Interrogation and a Disorder in the Court to review because having extra card draw lying around isn't the worst thing. Also Disorder in the Court almost looks mighty close to Change of Plans as a protection piece for my board with relevant upside. Actually, I think I just talked myself into getting Disorder in the Court into this deck.

**edit** changed "treasures" to "clues" because that is what I meant.

[PrimevalCommander]

Also, I saw Oversold Cemetery early game and threw it out there before it was active. I had a spare 2 mana so why not. After (8) turns it never triggered once! I was doing so much looping of the same 3 creatures and didn't hit much actual draw, just looting and recycling. I was relevant the entire game, but there was some exile removal thrown my way that kept my creature count down. It was funny because I was trying to get creatures in my graveyard but I was just trading punches with the bird tribal deck and no one would attack into Zetalpa, Primal Dawn, go figure . I also didn't have all that many disposable creatures I wanted to run into blockers, but I likely should have tried because it would have gotten them back to my hand anyway. I'll let it slide this time since it didn't cost me much, but it was a bit disappointing not being able to get above 3 creatures in the GY until the Farewell hit. Another showing like that and it's outta here.