Sefris of the Kind of Obvious Ways

[GuJiaXian]

Here's a link to my Sefris deck. Note that it does have a silver-bordered card in it, as our group allows those (and, thematically, Animate Graveyard really fits the deck). Not the most tuned land base, but I included what I have.

The deck can be slow, but when it hits its stride, I'm hitting dungeon triggers 6+ times a turn. It's a blast to play.

[yeti1069]

Considered Adds/Cuts

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

CUTS

1 Overcharged Amalgam

1 Hostage Taker

1 Dusk Mangler

ADDS

1 Ertai Resurrected

1 Primaris Eliminator

1 Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate

Approximate Total Cost:

I think Overcharged is probably better than Ertai here in some cases, but I want to try out the more flexible card.

Hostage Taker is pretty flexible in that it can remove two card types, and can be used to protect one of my creatures from a board wipe (have done this several times), along with the ability to sometimes steal a card. That said, I'm not always thrilled to see it, and I want to try out Primaris as both a hard removal piece, and a mini-board wipe. If I find myself using the second ability a lot it may mean looking at OG Elesh Norn.

Dusk Mangler has been middling. The ETB effect has helped put pressure on the table, but the body is unimpressive, and I didn't have anything else I wanted to cut to try out Linvala here. She could maybe be a mass slide effect instead, but I like effects on creatures, and self-sacrifice is obviously valuable here.

[yeti1069]

Had a game that started out rough end fairly well for me.
Kept a slow opening hand of 3 lands (3 colors), Karmic Guide, Pathlighter, Solitude, Thassa.
Topdecked Viscera Seer on 1.
The only sac outlet I drew all game was Dream Trawler, and I used it to evoke Solitude to stop Ziatora from getting Journey to Eternity // Atzal, Cave of Eternity online.
Prosper got down an early piece of grave hate with some creature with a trigger to exile creatures that die (so not as bad as Rest in Peace, but...bad). Ended up feeding the Mulldrifter I drew into that, since I was still on only 3 lands on turn 5. Thankfully Varina or Ziatora got rid of the grave hate piece.
Didn't draw another piece of card draw for...a while, but did manage to draw a handful of 7 and 8 mana creatures that I couldn't cast.

For a few turns, I played Karmic to bring back Solitude, sacrificed Solitude and flickered Karmic at end step. Karmic died on upkeep, and I repeated the same on the NEXT turn, because I couldn't get through a dungeon in one turn cycle. I used Viscera to filter away lands and anything else that wasn't immediately very useful, since Ziatora decided my ability to exile one or two creatures every two turns was the biggest problem and swung 14 my way on a shields down turn. I actually had been looking askance at Prosper's and Varina's developing boards, and had done more to hamper them than Ziatora, but I guess he was a bit salty after I stopped his Journey.

One piece in my favor was that I got Lightning Greaves onto Sefris before anyone had interaction.
Primaris Eliminator showed up, and did some work, both on the spot removal front and the mini-board wipe to clear away the remainder of Varina's board after Prosper hit 4 of their creatures with a Hex (and 2 of mine). I Bojuka Bog'ed Varina after the Hex, but before I was able to wipe the rest of the creatures with an end step flicker of Primaris, but that was ok, because it got rid of a couple aristocrat zombies that would have definitely killed me the following turn, since I was down at 6 life.

I drew a Cloudblazer and was able to start drawing some cards. The life link on Solitude saved my ass for sure.

Varina dumped zombies on their turn with a Rooftop Storm, then cast Living Death, but didn't have a sac outlet (very relevant). Still, they made something like 60 2/2 zombies and brought back their Undead Augur from the yard with Necroduality (very relevant) and Alhammarret's Archive in play. In response to Living Death, I sacrificed my board. Well...with their lords in the yard, and dozens of 2/2 zombies in play...I hit them with the second half of Primaris, which triggered their Undead Augurs to both kill them from the life loss AND deck them from the draws triggers! They were able to kill one of their Augurs in response, but they were still looking at losing upwards of 60 life, and drawing 100+ cards.

With the extra cards I drew off this sequence, I got Radiant Solar and my own Living Death. Swung in for 5 damage each, and 2 ventures off Pathlighter.
Next, I used my Living Death to generate 8 venture triggers, which completed a dungeon on 1, and then I went into Tomb of Annihilation to be able to discard the Archfiend of Despair that had been stuck in my hand since turn 2. Reanimated that at the end of Tomb, and then completed Phandelver again. At this point my turn was getting kind of long, so I passed after that even though I had some more plays, and was leaving Ziatora alive (Prosper died to Archfiend trigger at EOT).

Thankfully in all of this I'd managed to get my life back up to 22, and had some blockers to mitigate some of the 18 damage Ziatora sent my way on their turn, but they were at 10, and I had plenty of beatsticks on the field as well as several options for piling on more damage, and they scooped.

Notable this game was that I was able to cast Primaris Eliminator at a time when I wouldn't have been able to cast Elesh Norn, and that made a big difference on the game. In another situation where I could have just gotten Elesh Norn out around the same time, it would have helped, although I did remove 2 or 3 bigger threats with Primaris' first ability over the course of the game.

Linvala I saw in my mad scrying, but I sent it to the bottom, since at the time I was looking for board wipes, draw, discard, life gain, or a way to more reliably get through dungeons.

[Petar_Enev]

I'm leaning away from infinites myself with the only one in the list being Reveillark + Karmic Guide + Viscera Seer, but I don't look for it, and each of the cards is excellent on its own here.

I purposefully left these combos out of the deck although each piece is relevant for the overall strategy by itself. For example - Body Double, Yawgmoth, Alter of Dementia are also great for the same Larck combo.

I think I'm running more big reanimation targets than you are, and it looks like you're running waaaay more small self-sacrificing utility creatures than I am. I'm sure some are very useful in keeping Sefris alive (and I just picked up Linvala to add to the deck), but it seems like a lot of the creatures are pretty low impact.

I found out that Sefris tend to be targeted a lot once people realise how good of an engine she is. Self-sacrifice small creatures like Benevolent Bodyguard, Selfless Savior, Selfless Spirit, Linvala serve several purposes:

• They come a turn before Sefris and let you play your commander on curve not worrying about a removal.
• They can trigger Sefris outside your turn if you need the venture in response for something (even if not using them to protect).
• They serve as a rattlesnake effect - opponents seeing them are less likely to loose removal on them. Instead they use it on other more vulnerable targets on the board (belonging to other opponents).
• You can reanimate them on instant speed and save your entire board or a valuable creature in response of a board wipe or a removal.
• You can just board wipe with your own mass removal spell and make your board indestructible.
• They protect valuable creatures which disrupt opponents by just staying at play - Elesh Norn, Serra's Emissary, Toxirill.

Slithermuse looks interesting, and I might try to track a few games to see how often it would have been a useful card.

The value of Slithermuse is triggering Sefris and drawing at the same time. I often find myself without cards in hand when using all my resources to trigger Sefris every turn, Slithermuse can be a nice hand refresh. I agree it's more on the synergy side of things rather than on the reliability one.

How has Shorikai been? I was just discussing that one with another Sefris player, but felt like 5 mana to get your first activation seemed like a lot, and it not being a creature had me feeling lackluster toward it.

Haven't tested it yet. Seems like a slow but very reliable draw/discard engine + chump blockers.
I don't know what you mean by "not being a creature" - for the purposes of triggering Sefris - it's a creature card going in the graveyard (either from play or discarding it). It's not a creature only in play and this is more of an advantage since it's harder to remove.

I have some adjustments I'll be making in the next week or so (such as adding Linvala), but my big impact reanimation targets are:
*Ashen Rider - similar to Agent, but removes the card, has a death trigger to do the same (relevant in a game recently where ETBs were disabled by the new Elesh Norn), and is itself a decent threat as a 5/5 flyer
*Archon of Cruelty - flying threat that acts as card advantage, life gain, removal, life drain, and hand disruption
*Archfiend of Despair - closes games out FAST, and often kills players much sooner than expected
*Magister Sphinx - same
*Cataclysmic Gearhulk - often going to be at least as useful as Elesh Norn for board wipe purposes, sometimes will be worse, and sometimes will be significantly stronger (removing multiple bigger creatures, and non-creature permanents)

I've played Ashen Rider and Cataclysmic Gearhulk. Haven't tried the rest but the deck space is so tight and good cards for this deck are so many!
Cataclysmic Gearhulk have been very unreliable for me. Sometimes it's amazing - bringing a huge board down and dealing well with players that rely on a single permanent type - like enchantments or artefacts. However it has several big downsides for me:

• It lets the opponent to choose their best card to stay in play
• It impacts my board in a way I can't protect it with indestructible.
• It doesn't impact well balanced board - e.g. opponent has few permanents of each type that are each dangerous and need removal.

I guess you want to play it in a meta when most of the games opponents go way ahead in permanent count. However if your meta is more balanced and you don't let the opponents overextend too much, I would go for more targeted removal like Cavalier of Dawn. Also why not play Cavalier of Dawn if you already playing Necromancy? It's a nice combo with it and also with Animate Dead.

Agent of Treachery is something I see suggested a lot, but I have a couple issues with it here:
1) if the card an opponent controls has a negative static effect (like Rest In Peace), stealing it doesn't help.
2) theft, especially repeated theft tends to make for more unpleasant play experiences than outright removal
3) you either need to reanimate/flicker Agent a few times to get the draw, or else need to be running more theft in the deck
4) unless you're stealing big threats, the card itself isn't a threat at 7 mana

1)I agree that stealing Rest In Peace (hate this card!!!) or staeling Gauntlet of Power (which I have done) won't help much. However stealing a permanent is so much better than just killing it. For example commanders just stay into play on your side of the field instead giving the opponent the opportunity to recast them. Stealing Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow is much more devastating instead of killing it for example! It's also good for dealing with busted lands like Cabal Coffers.
2)Being unpleasant is a very subjective matter. There are much more unpleasant things in my opinion - like playing infinite combo while not in an all-combo-meta. If you are stealing Yuriko for example, it's well deserved punishment for playing a commander with utterly annoying and busted "commander ninjitsu" ability.
3)Reanimating Agent several times is a very real possibility.
4)Not being a threat is not a concern giving the fact that the card has so much utility. It's worth 7 mana IMO and Sefris is just cheating it into play.
[/list]

Overall my game plan is to trigger Sefris in each player's turn, protect it, make a huge board that is hard to remove, remove opponent's board and swing few times for the win.

I also try to play as little non-creature spells as possible. If a removal or draw can be on a creature, I won't play Despark, Void Render, Arcane Denial or Franatic Search just because I'm terrified to be left with no creatures in hand when I have a looter or Tortured Existence going on. The only exceptions are Lethal Scheme, Overwhelming Remorse and mass reanimation spells because they are so so synergistic!

[yeti1069]

I purposefully left these combos out of the deck although each piece is relevant for the overall strategy by itself. For example - Body Double, Yawgmoth, Alter of Dementia are also great for the same Larck combo.

That's fair. I find that with only 2 sac outlets in the deck, and few tutors, it's very rare to have all 3 pieces show up organically, even with the number of cards I draw in a game, so it doesn't bother me having the possibility.

I found out that Sefris tend to be targeted a lot once people realise how good of an engine she is. Self-sacrifice small creatures like Benevolent Bodyguard, Selfless Savior, Selfless Spirit, Linvala serve several purposes:

• They come a turn before Sefris and let you play your commander on curve not worrying about a removal.
• They can trigger Sefris outside your turn if you need the venture in response for something (even if not using them to protect).
• They serve as a rattlesnake effect - opponents seeing them are less likely to loose removal on them. Instead they use it on other more vulnerable targets on the board (belonging to other opponents).
• You can reanimate them on instant speed and save your entire board or a valuable creature in response of a board wipe or a removal.
• You can just board wipe with your own mass removal spell and make your board indestructible.
• They protect valuable creatures which disrupt opponents by just staying at play - Elesh Norn, Serra's Emissary, Toxirill.

If you're having Sefris removed early and often, I can see why you'd run them, but (without having played this "package" of cards) it looks to me like a lot of low value stuff that you don't necessarily want to sac just to trigger Sefris, since they are included to protect the commander, and then they don't provide a lot of value as reanimation targets. I've had a few games where Sefris got hated out, and where these may have come in handy, but for most games, I don't know that I miss having more early protection. I do find Lightning Greaves valuable on that front.

Certainly saving high value creatures will make for shorter games than letting everything die and then reanimating pieces again, as I've been doing.

The value of Slithermuse is triggering Sefris and drawing at the same time. I often find myself without cards in hand when using all my resources to trigger Sefris every turn, Slithermuse can be a nice hand refresh. I agree it's more on the synergy side of things rather than on the reliability one.

I guess my question is: how often do you have this available, but where it either doesn't do anything, or it only nets 1 card vs how often its drawing you 3+? There's a host of creatures that draw 1 on ETB and have other upside, or that draw 2 that feel like they are just more reliable (higher floor, lower ceiling).

Haven't tested it yet. Seems like a slow but very reliable draw/discard engine + chump blockers.
I don't know what you mean by "not being a creature" - for the purposes of triggering Sefris - it's a creature card going in the graveyard (either from play or discarding it). It's not a creature only in play and this is more of an advantage since it's harder to remove.

I just meant it not being a creature means Sefris can't reanimate it, and it won't trigger Sefris if it's sent to the graveyard. Vehicles aren't creatures at any time except when they're crewed.

I've played Ashen Rider and Cataclysmic Gearhulk. Haven't tried the rest but the deck space is so tight and good cards for this deck are so many!
Cataclysmic Gearhulk have been very unreliable for me. Sometimes it's amazing - bringing a huge board down and dealing well with players that rely on a single permanent type - like enchantments or artefacts. However it has several big downsides for me:

• It lets the opponent to choose their best card to stay in play
• It impacts my board in a way I can't protect it with indestructible.
• It doesn't impact well balanced board - e.g. opponent has few permanents of each type that are each dangerous and need removal.

I guess you want to play it in a meta when most of the games opponents go way ahead in permanent count. However if your meta is more balanced and you don't let the opponents overextend too much, I would go for more targeted removal like Cavalier of Dawn. Also why not play Cavalier of Dawn if you already playing Necromancy? It's a nice combo with it and also with Animate Dead.

Gearhulk occasionally is lackluster, but it puts enough enough work that I don't mind. I've also had plenty of instances where I wiped all but one creature for everyone, then the Sefris trigger brought back a removal creature that gets rid of 1 or more of the remaining critters.

Cavalier of Dawn should probably be in here. Good call. It removes almost everything, and has slight upside besides. I'll have to see if I can fit it.

Agent of Treachery is something I see suggested a lot, but I have a couple issues with it here:
1) if the card an opponent controls has a negative static effect (like Rest In Peace), stealing it doesn't help.
2) theft, especially repeated theft tends to make for more unpleasant play experiences than outright removal
3) you either need to reanimate/flicker Agent a few times to get the draw, or else need to be running more theft in the deck
4) unless you're stealing big threats, the card itself isn't a threat at 7 mana

1)I agree that stealing Rest In Peace (hate this card!!!) or staeling Gauntlet of Power (which I have done) won't help much. However stealing a permanent is so much better than just killing it. For example commanders just stay into play on your side of the field instead giving the opponent the opportunity to recast them. Stealing Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow is much more devastating instead of killing it for example! It's also good for dealing with busted lands like Cabal Coffers.
2)Being unpleasant is a very subjective matter. There are much more unpleasant things in my opinion - like playing infinite combo while not in an all-combo-meta. If you are stealing Yuriko for example, it's well deserved punishment for playing a commander with utterly annoying and busted "commander ninjitsu" ability.
3)Reanimating Agent several times is a very real possibility.
4)Not being a threat is not a concern giving the fact that the card has so much utility. It's worth 7 mana IMO and Sefris is just cheating it into play.
[/list]

Overall my game plan is to trigger Sefris in each player's turn, protect it, make a huge board that is hard to remove, remove opponent's board and swing few times for the win.

I also try to play as little non-creature spells as possible. If a removal or draw can be on a creature, I won't play Despark, Void Render, Arcane Denial or Franatic Search just because I'm terrified to be left with no creatures in hand when I have a looter or Tortured Existence going on. The only exceptions are Lethal Scheme, Overwhelming Remorse and mass reanimation spells because they are so so synergistic!

Agent is good, and very strong. I've just had too many games with other decks where I stole something, and ended up giving it back to bounce, and wished I could have just permanently removed it. There are occasions where I'd rather steal something than exile/destroy it, but it's rare that I see something that I want that badly.

I'm with you on leaning heavily into creatures, but I've found that I want a small number of non-creature effects (especially removal) for instances where creatures won't do it, such as in the game I had vs the new Elesh Norn. Plus, noncreature answers are usually less expensive mana-wise than those on bodies.

[Petar_Enev]

it looks to me like a lot of low value stuff that you don't necessarily want to sac just to trigger Sefris, since they are included to protect the commander, and then they don't provide a lot of value as reanimation targets.

My experience is that once Sefris engine is online, it doesn't matter if you have bunch of low reanimation targets - you just need one or two big ones to keep bringing back and protect. I see you mean the edge case where I have only small protection creatures and nothing else going on. In this case I'll keep digging with Scry /Draw and hopefully opponents will leave me alone since I'm not an immediate threat.

how often do you have this available, but where it either doesn't do anything, or it only nets 1 card vs how often its drawing you 3+? There's a host of creatures that draw 1 on ETB and have other upside, or that draw 2 that feel like they are just more reliable (higher floor, lower ceiling).

The good thing about Slithermuse is it's kind of a safety net - if you don't have cards in hand, you play it and you draw on average 3-4 cards to refill. If you do have cards, you don't need to play it so urgently. Worst case scenario is - you need cards but your opponents don't have cards in hand either. In this case, other alternatives are better but that's why I play other card draw engines. My experience with the deck is that I burn cards in hand fast and often, so Slithermuse is good more often than not.

I just meant it not being a creature means Sefris can't reanimate it, and it won't trigger Sefris if it's sent to the graveyard. Vehicles aren't creatures at any time except when they're crewed.

You're right. I don't know why I thought it has the creature type. I'll test it anyway and see how it performs.

Cavalier of Dawn should probably be in here. Good call. It removes almost everything, and has slight upside besides. I'll have to see if I can fit it.

Not sure if I made my point with Necromancy/Animate dead + Cavalier of Dawn combo - when it dies it returns the enchantment to your hand so that you can reanimate it again and again...

[yeti1069]

I understood your point about Cavalier, but I'm only running 2 enchantments and rarely would tutor for Necromancy, so that synergy isn't going to come up much.

[yeti1069]

The good thing about Slithermuse is it's kind of a safety net - if you don't have cards in hand, you play it and you draw on average 3-4 cards to refill. If you do have cards, you don't need to play it so urgently. Worst case scenario is - you need cards but your opponents don't have cards in hand either. In this case, other alternatives are better but that's why I play other card draw engines. My experience with the deck is that I burn cards in hand fast and often, so Slithermuse is good more often than not.

Well, I got Slithermuse, so now I have to slot it in.

The question is, what to replace it with? I think the slot contenders are:

• Mulldrifter
• Fell Stinger
• Cloudblazer

Being a mana cheaper than Cloudblazer is nice, and possibly drawing more cards, as well as being able to self-sacrifice to trigger Sefris. Blazer has been useful as a flyer, and the life gain has been welcome, but I think that's the cut for now, since the other two are both cheaper and can trigger Sefris on their own.

[Chromaticus]

I saw Tomb of Horrors Adventurer suggested in another thread - have you tried this guy out?

I'm thinking of slotting it in for something in my list - it looks a little win more, but I can also see it absolutely taking over a game.

I recommend taking out Cloudblazer for Slithermuse.

[yeti1069]

I saw Tomb of Horrors Adventurer suggested in another thread - have you tried this guy out?

I'm thinking of slotting it in for something in my list - it looks a little win more, but I can also see it absolutely taking over a game.

I recommend taking out Cloudblazer for Slithermuse.

ToHA looks rough for the way I have the deck built: you need to cast two spells in a turn and the second has to be valuable enough to copy. There's some value in the 1-3 drop stuff, but the pieces you would most want to copy are 5+, and the deck doesn't ramp that hard generally.

I cut Cloudblazer, yeah.

[yeti1069]

So, I got Slithermuse pretty early in a game just now. Held it back for a few turns while I did other stuff until I was down on cards, and managed to get 3 off of it, which was nice, but it wasn't great that I couldn't run it out earlier if I felt like I needed cards, and then there was no point during the rest of the game where I could get any value out of it. And while, yes, I was ahead, I also had a bunch of lands in hand and would have really liked to be able to draw some cards. This was a place where Cloudblazer would have been better. That said, I can see Slither being big when coming from behind.

The only other notes I'll make here are that I kept a slow hand, that had Teferi, and that propelled me into the game once I got it down. Also, I faced a considerable amount of graveyard hate, and was able to play around/get through most of it unscathed. Kunoros, Hound of Athreos came out early, and I finagled Teferi to stay alive and phase out the hound in time for my final dungeon trigger (gave attacker on the previous turn -4/-0 from the dungeon so I could keep Teferi's loyalty up enough for the phase). Weathered Runestone was a bit awkward with my removal piece being Cathar Commando while I was 1 room away from finishing the dungeon--that meant I didn't get to reanimate with Sefris OR nab a critter with The Undercity, but my opponents were suitably frustrated that I was able to brush aside a few pieces of dedicated grave hate, while also protecting my board a bit, and stopping their wincons.

Emeria Shepherd I also want to call out as an all-star this game, actually! Having a fetchland in play (even a Terramorphic Expanse) with a few valuable creatures in the yard with removal stapled to them means I functionally have a second hand of free-to-play spells at my disposal, barring some bright opponent removing the Shepherd in response to the search activation. I only have a few basic Plains in the deck, which I ran out of quickly, but I was able to bring back some key pieces to hand with the "fail" case. Also, some of these triggers were off Sun Titan returning Terramorphic a couple times, which was BIG value. Every time I consider cutting this it just dominates a game.

[PrimevalCommander]

I played a game with Sefris this past weekend, and wanted to (again) sing the praises of Rilsa Rael, Kingpin as one of my favorite cards in the deck. I play a budget brew, heavy on looters and overcosted bombs with some extra value stapled on. All of my favorite plays in that deck have included Rilsa being on the battlefield. From beating down with a HUGE Zetalpa, Primal Dawn to commander kill with Sefris of the Hidden Ways herself, Rilsa turns most any creature into a threat and activates the turn she comes down, AND gets me into the Undercity to boot. Last game I reanimated an early Hoverguard Sweepers and just kept turnin it into a 10/6 flying, firstsrike, deathtouch, menace beater and going to town. Can't wait to do the same to Esper Akroma as well.

[Chromaticus]

Do you have your budget list somewhere?

I mostly proxy all my cards through make playing cards- but it would be nice to have a deck built that was all my own cards.

[yeti1069]

Do you have your budget list somewhere?

I mostly proxy all my cards through make playing cards- but it would be nice to have a deck built that was all my own cards.

I don't, but if you remove Archfiend of Despair (could be any other reanimation target, or a piece of utility), Solitude (would probably replace with another piece of removal), Necromancy (could be any other cheap reanimate spell; probably Animate Dead for the Sun Titan synergy), Diabolic Intent (could be anything), Polluted Delta, Phyrexian Tower, and Otawara the deck cost drops by about $238. Still around $350-400, though. I assume budget is under $100?

[PrimevalCommander]

Do you have your budget list somewhere?

I mostly proxy all my cards through make playing cards- but it would be nice to have a deck built that was all my own cards.

If you meant me, I don't have an active thread. Here it is if the OP isn't opposed to having it here. I can move to a new thread if OP disapproves. Put it in a spoiler to not take up so much thread space.

Average MV for non-lands = 3.70, which is high, but we almost never cast most of the big bombs, so the mana value has never been a problem.

Budget Sefris Decklist (not OP)

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Sefris of the Hidden Ways

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Sefris of the Hidden Ways

Creatures (36)

1 Enclave Cryptologist

1 Likeness Looter

1 Rona, Herald of Invasion

1 Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator

1 Priest of Fell Rites

1 Triumphant Adventurer

1 Jirina, Dauntless General

1 Cathar Commando

1 Ghostly Pilferer

1 Master of Death

1 Bonded Fetch

1 Obsessive Stitcher

1 Nadaar, Selfless Paladin

1 White Plume Adventurer

1 Ravenloft Adventurer

1 Seasoned Dungeoneer

1 Disciple of Bolas

1 Midnight Pathlighter

1 Solemn Simulacrum

1 Overcharged Amalgam

1 Ertai Resurrected

1 Shriekmaw

1 Mulldrifter

1 Rilsa Rael, Kingpin

1 Archfiend of Ifnir

1 Timeless Dragon

1 Tivit, Seller of Secrets

1 Radiant Solar

1 Angel of Despair

1 Rune-Scarred Demon

1 Eternal Dragon

1 Angel of the Ruins

1 Mindleech Mass

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

1 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn

1 Hoverguard Sweepers

Spells

1 Dire Tactics

1 Contraband Livestock

1 Dream Fracture

1 You Find the Villain's Lair

1 Forbidden Alchemy

1 Buried Alive

1 Void Rend

1 Obscura Confluence

1 Lethal Scheme

1 Fact or Fiction

1 Incarnation Technique

1 Tragic Arrogance

1 Time Wipe

1 Change of Plans

Artifact and Enchantment

1 Tortured Existence

1 Expedition Map

1 Sol Ring

1 Orzhov Signet

1 Dimir Signet

1 Azorius Signet

1 Arcane Signet

1 Swiftfoot Boots

1 Oversold Cemetery

1 Relic of Legends

1 Dungeon Map

1 Thorough Investigation

1 Teferi, Master of Time

Lands (36)

4 Island

4 Swamp

4 Plains

1 Glacial Fortress

1 Drowned Catacomb

1 Isolated Chapel

1 Orzhov Basilica

1 Dimir Aqueduct

1 Azorius Chancery

1 Caves of Koilos

1 Adarkar Wastes

1 Underground River

1 Ice Tunnel

1 Snowfield Sinkhole

1 Glacial Floodplain

1 Evolving Wilds

1 Terramorphic Expanse

1 Ash Barrens

1 Raffine's Tower

1 Command Tower

1 Sunken Hollow

1 Prairie Stream

1 Nimbus Maze

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Myriad Landscape

1 Tectonic Edge

1 Geier Reach Sanitarium

Approximate Total Cost:

Decklist updated as of 03/21/2024

The beef really could be any pet card that has been power crept out of existence in modern commander. I have 3-4 other $0.25 cards that could fill replace any of the top end fatties. It plays quite good at casual tables and the looters really help card velocity if you can hit a draw spell every now and then. I never flood out when playing 6 looters + all the reanimation. I may recommend another ETB draw creature to fill the hand like Sphinx of Uthuun, which may get a slot in my list at some point. This was my first "budget" build and the first draft was horrendously slow and fragile. It played too many of the trash tier venture cards that really hobbled the deck even in casual tables. I doubled the looters, tweaked the support cards, and added a touch of protection. Works great now. Still soft to repeated removal on the commander, but you can adjust card choices to add more counter or protection for Sefris if needed.

[yeti1069]

Do you have your budget list somewhere?

I mostly proxy all my cards through make playing cards- but it would be nice to have a deck built that was all my own cards.

If you meant me, I don't have an active thread. Here it is if the OP isn't opposed to having it here. I can move to a new thread if OP disapproves. Put it in a spoiler to not take up so much thread space.

Average MV for non-lands = 3.70, which is high, but we almost never cast most of the big bombs, so the mana value has never been a problem.


The beef really could be any pet card that has been power crept out of existence in modern commander. I have 3-4 other $0.25 cards that could fill replace any of the top end fatties. It plays quite good at casual tables and the looters really help card velocity if you can hit a draw spell every now and then. I never flood out when playing 6 looters + all the reanimation. I may recommend another ETB draw creature to fill the hand like Sphinx of Uthuun, which may get a slot in my list at some point. This was my first "budget" build and the first draft was horrendously slow and fragile. It played too many of the trash tier venture cards that really hobbled the deck even in casual tables. I doubled the looters, tweaked the support cards, and added a touch of protection. Works great now. Still soft to repeated removal on the commander, but you can adjust card choices to add more counter or protection for Sefris if needed.

I strongly encourage anyone who has a list of their own to post it here. More visibility/discussion is good by me, and I see no reason not to have them here.

I would recommend replacing one of the loots with Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator. It is a little harder to cast (being 2 colors rather than 1), but the extra point of toughness and its second ability are well worth adding a color for the effect.

I get that they're cheap, but I think we have significantly better options in commander for Dire Tactics and Contraband Livestock. Ditto for Dream Fracture. Component Pouch looks like hot garbage to me, personally. Coalition Relic performs a similar role (tap now to make 2 mana next turn), but without the fail case of it not doing anything some turns, but even there, I don't know if Manalith variants without any real upside are where you want to be with almost any deck, but particularly not this one. Sarevok's Tome comes in the deck and has a TON of value built into it, even if Ur-Golem's Eye is a lackluster base.

Disciple of Bolas is an interesting choice I hadn't considered here...How often are you getting more than 2 cards out of it? I feel like, on curve (assuming looter, Sefris, this on 4), it looks bad, but later in the game it could be a big refill.

How has Barrowin performed for you? I had it in initially, but felt like I could rarely profitably attack with it, since it doesn't have evasion, and so was often just trading it for something else in the yard, which isn't bad, but didn't feel worth it for the mana cost. I guess with Rilsa in there it looks a lot better. I'm running Seasoned Adventurer now, so that can also help Barrowin through. I'll also once again recommend it, as a solid all-around card. Explore can trigger Sefris or draw a card, and giving something unblockable can be relevant for closing out the game or regaining The Initiative. It's also helped me get Sefris up to respectable P/T both for clocking opponents and surviving attempts on his (her?) life.

How has Thorough Investigation performed? I keep looking at it, but feel like I have a lot of turns where I don't have mana left over to crack clues, BUT I do have turns where I hold up some mana for interaction, and could be using that toward a clue if I don't end up spending it. Without other uses for clues in the deck, it just always looked like a mediocre value piece. That said, : Venture into the dungeon and draw a card at instant speed can be very valuable here.

Behold the Multiverse is better than Contact Other Plan 95% of the time on the raw effect, and gets a slight additional edge from the ability to foretell it. There are also a few options for drawing 2 cards (and keeping them both, like Chart a Course much of the time) for less than 4 mana. Pull from Tomorrow is probably better in that slot by a lot here, specifically, as the discard can trigger Sefris.

[PrimevalCommander]

I strongly encourage anyone who has a list of their own to post it here. More visibility/discussion is good by me, and I see no reason not to have them here.

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I would recommend replacing one of the loots with Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator. It is a little harder to cast (being 2 colors rather than 1), but the extra point of toughness and its second ability are well worth adding a color for the effect.

I get that they're cheap, but I think we have significantly better options in commander for Dire Tactics and Contraband Livestock. Ditto for Dream Fracture. Component Pouch looks like hot garbage to me, personally. Coalition Relic performs a similar role (tap now to make 2 mana next turn), but without the fail case of it not doing anything some turns, but even there, I don't know if Manalith variants without any real upside are where you want to be with almost any deck, but particularly not this one. Sarevok's Tome comes in the deck and has a TON of value built into it, even if Ur-Golem's Eye is a lackluster base.

Disciple of Bolas is an interesting choice I hadn't considered here...How often are you getting more than 2 cards out of it? I feel like, on curve (assuming looter, Sefris, this on 4), it looks bad, but later in the game it could be a big refill.

How has Barrowin performed for you? I had it in initially, but felt like I could rarely profitably attack with it, since it doesn't have evasion, and so was often just trading it for something else in the yard, which isn't bad, but didn't feel worth it for the mana cost. I guess with Rilsa in there it looks a lot better. I'm running Seasoned Adventurer now, so that can also help Barrowin through. I'll also once again recommend it, as a solid all-around card. Explore can trigger Sefris or draw a card, and giving something unblockable can be relevant for closing out the game or regaining The Initiative. It's also helped me get Sefris up to respectable P/T both for clocking opponents and surviving attempts on his (her?) life.

How has Thorough Investigation performed? I keep looking at it, but feel like I have a lot of turns where I don't have mana left over to crack clues, BUT I do have turns where I hold up some mana for interaction, and could be using that toward a clue if I don't end up spending it. Without other uses for clues in the deck, it just always looked like a mediocre value piece. That said, : Venture into the dungeon and draw a card at instant speed can be very valuable here.

Behold the Multiverse is better than Contact Other Plan 95% of the time on the raw effect, and gets a slight additional edge from the ability to foretell it. There are also a few options for drawing 2 cards (and keeping them both, like Chart a Course much of the time) for less than 4 mana. Pull from Tomorrow is probably better in that slot by a lot here, specifically, as the discard can trigger Sefris.

Thanks for the kind words and the discussion on the list.

I'll be brief, but honest, on the card choice explanation. Many of the cards you pointed to are under powered, but have some minor theme around venturing or rolling dice. As a whole, this list of cards you highlighted are bringing the deck power down a meaningful amount. No argument there. But I have half dozen "powerful" decks, so I kinda leave this one on a lower tier on purpose.

Vohar, Vodalian Desecrator is in the deck, must have missed it the last time I updated the list. Good catch! It is a good looter I think Spellkeeper Weird came out for this, since I seem to remember removing that card but not for what.
Dire Tactics + Contraband Livestock are just goofy removal spells with minimal downside. Clearly not the best in slot even on a budget but honestly I don't feel like they hurt me at all. One of them rolls a D20, which gives it an edge whenever I decide to buy a Vexing Puzzlebox. They both exile, which I like. I don't have plans to swap these because they haven't let me down yet.
Component Pouch rolls a D20, so was a holdover from the heavy D&D theme, but is not good. Dungeon Map has actually been better in getting extra ventures occasionally. The 4 mana rock with Initiative is a much better card. I'll put it on the buy list along with the puzzlebox.
Contact the other plane rolls a D20 and draws a couple cards... that is all. Pull from Tomorrow is actually a really good one.
Dream Fracture is one of my favorite cheap counters. I like the cantrip and what it offers. Just a pet card.
Barrowin of Clan Undurr I honestly expected to do a little better. But a 3/3 with attack trigger is just too fragile. Don't play this card unless you are heavy into venture theme. It reads better than it is, even with my heavy looting. I'll get a Seasoned Dungeoneer for this slot as long as it stays budget.
Disciple of Bolas is not bad. It is a mid-game roll player since I don't play sac outlets. The way I play this deck, sac outlets don't do much for me, but getting a sac once in a while with card draw attached is sometimes exactly what I need. I give it a B- in this deck. Nothing impressive, but decent.
Thorough Investigation is actually pretty good. I attack quite a bit, so trigger every turn is easy and the venture when sac a clue gives me instant speed venture triggers outside of Sefris, which really spices up the deck. I would recommend this for casual Sefris builds. One of the better venture cards out there, and one of the few cards that impressed me out of the venture suite
Danse Macabre is also on the chopping block as over costed for what it does. I don't usually want to sac my biggest thing, so I don't get much boost to the dice roll.

Got some good takeaways here with a cold look at the list. Thanks!

[yeti1069]

Glad you're getting something out of the discussion!

Why don't you want to sac your biggest thing with Danse? I would think the play pattern is (assuming not summoning sick): go to combat, swing with big thing, post-combat main, cast Danse, sac big, reanimate big and maybe someone else's creature. I agree that the card looks underwhelming, but not terribly so as an edict+reanimate on 1 or 2 creatures. I think there are better cards for the slot.

Oh, sure, if you're intentionally avoiding upgrades, and have a roll-a-die subtheme some of these make more sense. I just don't see payoffs for the dice rolling. Vexing Puzzlebox would give you something of a payoff, but I only see one artifact you'd ever want to tutor for.

I just think Dire Tactics could be Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile, and Contraband could be Reality Shift (though you lose the die roll). That said, my preference for EDH is to start with more flexible removal (more than one permanent type) unless I'm playing a LOT of removal, since there are potentially so many targets. Here, especially, I'd want things that can hit enchantments and artifacts as well as creatures, since there are so many silver bullets that can shut the deck down.

I guess Dream Fracture is significantly cheaper than Arcane Denial.

Disappointing to hear Barrowin is still underwhelming even with some more support to get him through.

I may look for a swap for Thorough Investigation to try it out.

[Chromaticus]

I'm getting Tivit, Seller of Secrets into the budget list for sure - thinking about going the Sphinx tribal route with Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign, Sphinx of Uthuun, and some of the other silly boys.

[yeti1069]

Tivit is pretty good.

[Chromaticus]

I play with Tivit, Seller of Secrets as a commander for another deck, but I've found that even when other people have clones, he's virtually always the target and virtually always a problem. The immediate value is great, but then he's also a big body with an on-hit trigger, and protects himself.

[PrimevalCommander]

Tivit is on my list to try as well. Synergy with Thorough Investigation too.

[Chromaticus]

Rona, Herald of Invasion looks pretty sweet here as another looter with upside. She even double loots on your Sefris of the Hidden Ways turn!

[yeti1069]

Rona, Herald of Invasion looks pretty sweet here as another looter with upside. She even double loots on your Sefris of the Hidden Ways turn!

100% auto-include over an existing looter for sure, though looting twice the turn you cast Sefris isn't great, necessarily, since you'll have the first trigger before Sefris is in play, but the deck has a fair number of legends that it casts, so that upside is there. Even just a 1/3 for 2 is an improvement, so having the option to untap occasionally, and then ALSO having that ridiculous backside is allllll gravy.

[PrimevalCommander]

Played budget Sefris twice this weekend. Rilsa Rael, Kingpin still my favorite card. Always pumps something fun and gets damage through. Tutored up Teferi, Master of Time and was looting like a madman. Ran out of creatures real quick since I was trying to power through Undercity. I will probably be replacing Contact Other Plane with a Death Denied or other spell to buyback creatures to hand. I need more creatures to pitch to keep Sefris triggering. It can also rebuy my evoke and cycling creatures if I don't have a looter online. Obscura Confluence actually looks really good for this. 4 mana for 3 creatures is a better rate than Death Denied and more flexibility. It can also Connive and trigger Sefris then immediately return the discarded card to my hand, which basically becomes a bad card draw spell with fringe synergy with my commander. Thoughts?