Karador, Ghost Chieftan, Abzan Value Midrange

[duducrash]

@PrimevalCommander I love field of the dead, its often the best card played in several matches. I do have to have some slots dedicated to finding it. Currently Sylvan Scrying , Kura, the Boundless Sky and Knight of the Reliquary . I might bring back Crop Rotation soon.

Yes,Life from the Loam is a notable omition on my part, I have to fix that. hope that I can trade for a cool one that hit the market recently with the new ravnica

[duducrash]

Small update

OUT

High Market

IN

Fauna Shaman

[PrimevalCommander]

Small update

OUT

High Market

IN

Fauna Shaman

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Haha, fauna shaman is great for Karador, but my sac lands are many times the only thing keeping my engines alive. I know we don't play the same list, but my opponents will insta-target any sac outlet that hits my board, so the lands are some of the stickiest ones that keep me going. My sac outlets get targeted mostly because it is painfully obvious that I am leaning on them very hard to loop my creatures in and out of the GY. So I'm not faulting my opponents, just adding more insurance than others might need to play.

Also, no Life from the Loam in this update

Also have you thought about a Selesnya Sanctuary or Golgari Rot Farm as a one-off to grab Takenuma, Abandoned Mire or Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire back from play? I'm playing a couple because I'm running Channel lands + Bojuka Bog and it can help me rebuy them if I need them for mana early game. They are a bit slow though.

[duducrash]

Also, no Life from the Loam in this update

I don't own one currently xD . My area does not have one in stores, so I'm trying to trade for one or I'll get in a bigger order once I have more cards to get, I really want it and Hermit Druid .

Yeah, I like High Market one thing it gets me is the ammount of colorless lands I'm running, I think I was up to 5. Now that you mentioned, sac outlets get target a lot. I think once I get to play without it I might regret it , because thinking about it, I do feel my outlets are often hit first, the thing about this deck for me is that I'll win the longer games and be targeted is a baaad thing so lands might be good long run.


I haven't tougth much about bounce lands. It is interesting specially with multiple land drops being played, and aditionally theres also Bojuka Bog . How often do you feel this situation comes up in games ?

[TheGildedGoose]

Karador Aristocrats

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander:

1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain

Lands: 40

1 Agadeem, the Undercrypt

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Boseiju, Who Endures

1 Command Tower

1 Deathcap Glade

1 Flooded Strand

1 Godless Shrine

1 Horizon Canopy

1 Indatha Triome

1 Llanowar Wastes

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Murmuring Bosk

1 Nurturing Peatland

1 Overgrown Tomb

1 Polluted Delta

1 Silent Clearing

1 Temple Garden

1 Undergrowth Stadium

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Volrath's Stronghold

1 Windswept Heath

1 Wooded Foothills

1 Woodland Cemetery

1 Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

6 Forest

1 Plains

5 Swamp

Ramp: 10

1 Dawntreader Elk

1 Diligent Farmhand

1 Farhaven Elf

1 Neverwinter Dryad

1 Sakura-Tribe Elder

1 Springbloom Druid

1 Topiary Stomper

1 Wood Elves

1 Yavimaya Dryad

1 Yavimaya Granger

Draw: 10

1 Beast Whisperer

1 Corpse Augur

1 Grim Haruspex

1 Guardian Project

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Skullclamp

1 Underrealm Lich

1 Viscera Seer

1 Woe Strider

1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician

Recursion: 8

1 Eerie Ultimatum

1 Eternal Witness

1 Gloomshrieker

1 Junji, the Midnight Sky

1 Serra Paragon

1 Shigeki, Jukai Visionary

1 Sun Titan

1 Timeless Witness

Removal: 11

1 Anguished Unmaking

1 Assassin's Trophy

1 Beast Within

1 Callous Bloodmage

1 Demon's Disciple

1 Fleshbag Marauder

1 Generous Gift

1 Loran of the Third Path

1 Merciless Executioner

1 Plaguecrafter

1 Ravenous Chupacabra

Board Wipe: 5

1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk

1 Damn

1 Massacre Girl

1 The Meathook Massacre

1 Toxic Deluge

Drain: 6

1 Cruel Celebrant

1 Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim

1 Poison-Tip Archer

1 Syr Konrad, the Grim

1 Vindictive Vampire

1 Zulaport Cutthroat

Tutors: 6

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Fauna Shaman

1 Fiend Artisan

1 Imperial Seal

1 Recruiter of the Guard

1 Vampiric Tutor

Protection: 3

1 Heroic Intervention

1 Selfless Spirit

1 Teferi's Protection

Approximate Total Cost:

I've played less than 10 games but here's what I ended up with in case you might find it helpful.

[PrimevalCommander]

@duducrash dang, gotta get one of those Loam's. Especially with the channel lands in your list. Probably one of my top 3 tutor targets, along with Altar of Dementia and Corpse Augur.

Unfortunately I do a lot more brewing than playing the last few years. And the last 3-4 gaming sessions I have been playing newer decks. But I can say the bounce lands are nice to have one or two in the list if you have the space. Generally if I'm triggering Kura, the Boundless Sky I'll throw a bounce land in the mix so I can get a spell land or two and make sure my land drops are accounted for. Otherwise I don't have enough repetitions to say the bounce lands are a slam dunk or just occasional value. I have picked up a Bojuka Bog before, but playing a tap land to pick up another tap land is severe tempo loss, but sometimes you gotta hit the GY deck several times to keep them down...

I just like commenting on your and @WizardMN's Karador lists since I don't have enough different to say about my own list to keep 3 of us on the front page. . So if my comments don't follow your game plan feel free to ignore. Got my list in my signature now for reference to any of my card mentions.

How reliable has Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire been for you? I have one in another deck but have not seen it yet. Wondering if I need one for Karador, though I don't have too much trouble with creature removal in that deck, so it may be overkill for me. I have an Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt in the maybe board, but after counting up about 13 other ways to manipulate creatures in the GY, I'm not sure I need that card either. And it is not tutorable as a land like Takenuma, Abandoned Mire and Boseiju, Who Endures.

[duducrash]

How reliable has Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire been for you?

I actually run the other Eiganjo Castle in this deck, that protects legends.its situational at best but does bring some nice Field of the Dead utility. I'd run Boseiju, Who Endures too, but currently dont own one

[PrimevalCommander]

Oops, I saw Eiganjo and mentally went to the channel version since it has interest to me.
Without Phyrexian Tower, I would recommend keeping High Market as a way to trigger GY stuff or get creatures in the GY for recast in the land slot. Especially with all the land manipulation you have, even if it dies or gets milled, it should be trivial to keep it in play. That is, only if you value the sac ability heavily. Keep an eye out for that.
What is The Shire doing for you other than incidental life gain?

[duducrash]

Oops, I saw Eiganjo and mentally went to the channel version since it has interest to me.
Without Phyrexian Tower, I would recommend keeping High Market as a way to trigger GY stuff or get creatures in the GY for recast in the land slot. Especially with all the land manipulation you have, even if it dies or gets milled, it should be trivial to keep it in play. That is, only if you value the sac ability heavily. Keep an eye out for that.
What is The Shire doing for you other than incidental life gain?

I think the next time I update this deck will have both Hermit Druid . Life from the Loam and Phyrexian Tower . I think I might want to put market back in. I'll goldfish some today. I'm not even sure how cool Fauna Shaman is.

Right now, The Shire is a fancy forest with the possibility of maybe gaining some life. I don't love or hate the card. I'm trying to keep an eye on it to see how often I'd rather it be a basic forest. but in this long grindy games the lifegain has been usefull a couple of times. I even considered Argoth, Sanctum of Nature briefly. Might do it actually. just a lil worried about the sheer ammount of taplands. on LOTR cards, Minas Tirith is also interesting.

I want to add more of the slow lands too. the Deathcap Glade and Shattered Sanctum

[PrimevalCommander]

I would have suspected with 5 drainers that also gain life your life total would be sufficiently padded throughout the game. My favorite life gain card apart from the very expensive Diamond Valley is Kokusho, the Evening Star since it doubles as a win condition in the late game when I can trigger it 2-3 times. Once usually keeps me going for a couple turns where it can return to give me another shot in the arm.

I'm jealous of your landfall theme here, as my Karador list originally had a heavier focus on land synergies that got removed over time. I got a Thalia and The Gitrog Monster and thought it might be a good value 4 drop to replace Solemn Simulacrum, but solemn is just so reliable as ramp + draw when I need it. I don't have the heart to retool 1/4 of the deck to jam a full land package in. With only Kura, the Boundless Sky and Life from the loam really keeping my hand full of lands, I'm not yet ready to jump to extra land drops in lieu of direct to play ramp. With all my self-mill a Ramunap Excavator would be the next logical step, which I might try here soon.

[duducrash]

@PrimevalCommander this deck became a lands matter by accident. But its perhaps my favorite part of the deck nowadays. Its nice because it works well with other ways the deck is built. Even With the newfound aristocratic push.

@TheGildedGoose Callous Bloodmage got me thinking about a new card Kutzil's Flanker

[duducrash]

Small tweaks

Out

Forest
Fauna Shaman
Corpse Knight

In

Kutzil's Flanker
High Market
Llanowar Wastes

Fauna Shaman is good, but I'm not sure I want that many tutors that have to wait and tap. I'm happy with Fiend Artisan at that spot. Wanted to come back to 40 lands, and bring back the market. Also, test the Kutzil's Flanker that I mentioned above

[duducrash]

small tweak in the manabase

Out with

The Shire

in with

Caves of Koilos

[duducrash]

Minor changes again as I prepare for an hermit druid shift.

Out
Forest

in

Deathcap Glade

[duducrash]

I keep thinking about Insidious Roots . Any opinions?

[PrimevalCommander]

Insidious Roots is very interesting to me. My list loops creatures quite often, but I don't put a ton of value into the go-wide portion of this card. I don't have any pump or evasion granting abilities, and I wipe the board 2+ times per game. Maybe having a bunch of chump blockers on the field would allow me to wipe less and develop more.

If your playing several other token makers, I think this card looks great. Playing Craterhoof Behemoth / Moonshaker Cavalry makes the tokens more valuable. Even standard aristocrat shells get more value from the incidental plants. My list has neither of the two mentioned synergies, which leaves Insidious Roots probably not worth the slot. Though if I just had a few relevant token makers I'd play it for the ramp half and use the token half as gravy. Same if I have a little aristocrat action using the mana half as gravy. My list just can't see enough synergy from either half to warrant a card slot.

I just put in Field of the Dead in my list for some low-opportunity blockers, and if it performs well I'll give this another look to come in along side. I usually don't start looping creatures until the mid game, and usually only once per turn. If I wanted it mainly for the tokens, I've got Hallowed Spiritkeeper in the sideboard. Though adding both would give me a good token sub-theme, but then I'd want Craterhoof Behemoth to make them lethal, and then I'd want.... no, I better not. Too many ways to build Karador, not enough time to build and play them all

[duducrash]

@PrimevalCommander Field is amazing, mostly because of its inevitability. Rain or shine the tokens will sprout. Again and again. I trully love the card. Hallowed Spiritkeeper reminds of Sprout Swarm that used to be in every graveyard list a while ago.

Some changes

In

Life from the Loam
Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

Out
Snow-Covered Forest
Spore Frog

I have some cards on the way from a mail trade in aftermath analyst, the 2 green surveil lands and Archdruid's Charm . The cuts will be brutal!


Yavimayais both to enable greedier cards such as charm and for the eventual Hermit Druid that I'll eventually trade for or get it. Life from the loam is a long overdue addition, Spore frog was cut because sometimes it ended in some not so great play patterns/loops

[duducrash]

Some changes!

Out with the old

Forest
Plains
Yahenni, Undying Partisan - I might bring him back, but goes for now. If I were to run another sac outlet I think it would be the always expensive Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
Loran of the Third Path - Amazing card, but kinda weird not dying. I might bring back too, but I like more effects that sac
Carmen, Cruel Skymarcher - I like her, but trying some different reanimation

In with the new

Lush Portico - Surveil lands are amazing
Underground Mortuary - They trully are
Archdruid's Charm - never dead if you can manage the GGG. amazing card
Aftermath Analyst - Fills the yard, brings lands back. Good grindy card
Nethroi, Apex of Death - Can I even mutate this out of the yard with karador? Cool beast guy

[duducrash]

Big updates!

Out

High Market
Sylvan Scrying


In

Hermit Druid
Phyrexian Tower


There are still some updates I wanted to do, specially in the lands, but will hold for a while. Really happy with where the deck is at

[duducrash]

Manlands arent the best thing ever. That said

Cactus Preserve could work in karador because of the higher CMC. There is also a small Blossoming Tortoise synergy

[PrimevalCommander]

Cactus Preserve is one of the best manlands we have seen in a while, but I'm not sure what it does for Karador's strategy. I guess it can do some post-wipe beats with hefty 8/8 stat line, but I am not sure that it worth the land slot here when there are so many other utility lands looking for homes.

[pokken]

Cactus Preserve is one of the best manlands we have seen in a while, but I'm not sure what it does for Karador's strategy. I guess it can do some post-wipe beats with hefty 8/8 stat line, but I am not sure that it worth the land slot here when there are so many other utility lands looking for homes.

Could do some serious work in a Life from the Loam / Greater Good type scenario. Sac to good, dredge loam, loam back cactus is a pretty good engine :D

(pretty filthy powerful engine with Ramunap Excavator too actually, given Karador can protect the engine so well)

[PrimevalCommander]

Cactus Preserve is one of the best manlands we have seen in a while, but I'm not sure what it does for Karador's strategy. I guess it can do some post-wipe beats with hefty 8/8 stat line, but I am not sure that it worth the land slot here when there are so many other utility lands looking for homes.

Could do some serious work in a Life from the Loam / Greater Good type scenario. Sac to good, dredge loam, loam back cactus is a pretty good engine :D

(pretty filthy powerful engine with Ramunap Excavator too actually, given Karador can protect the engine so well)

Now you are speaking my language

[duducrash]

Cactus Preserve is one of the best manlands we have seen in a while, but I'm not sure what it does for Karador's strategy. I guess it can do some post-wipe beats with hefty 8/8 stat line, but I am not sure that it worth the land slot here when there are so many other utility lands looking for homes.

Could do some serious work in a Life from the Loam / Greater Good type scenario. Sac to good, dredge loam, loam back cactus is a pretty good engine :D

(pretty filthy powerful engine with Ramunap Excavator too actually, given Karador can protect the engine so well)