Best Commander for a "Fires of Yavimaya" Shell?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » 3 years ago

I've been feeling nostalgic for Fires of Yavimaya ever since @TheAmericanSpirit's Flametongue Kavu thread last week. For those who weren't around in 2001, the idea of the deck was quite simple - use the Haste conferred by Fires of Yavimaya alongside the raw power of the creatures of that era (many of whom either hit way above their weight class due to Fading or had awesome EtB abilities) to mow down opponents before they could mount a reasonable defense. Also powerful was the incredible tempo of mana dorks with haste, as they effectively were "free". The deck was "good" pre-Planeshift largely because Blastoderm and Saproling Burst, drawbacks though they had, were so gross - Burst, in particular, was "the fix", allowing a perfect curve of smacking opponents for 12 hasty damage on turn 4 with a board that said "wrath or die" (A dork turn 1 or 2 into a Fires turn 2 or 3 allowed for turn 4 burst removing 3 counters for 12 power). This was also sometimes known as the "Blackjack" play, as a lack of blocks or interaction meant you were taking a smooth 21 in five turns. The deck became truly great after Planeshift - Flametongue Kavu was a backbreaking two-for-one that put immense pressure on opponents and ensured they'd be super dead even if they did manage to find removal + blockers after the initial Blastoderm or Saproling Burst Blitzkrieg. Such aggressive power was unprecedented. A sample decklist would be...

Fires of Yavimaya

Approximate Total Cost:

A few other common additions were Kavu Titan, Ancient Hydra, Jade Leech, River Boa, and Urza's Rage. There was also the occasional heavier white splash for Rith, the Awakener and sideboard Orim's Thunders or Aura Mutations, and the more occasional black splash for Terminate, Pernicious Deed, and Darigaaz, the Igniter.

My favorite FNM-only variant utilized Shivan Wurm on the topend to re-buy FTK for maximum carnage. Even more casual players occasionally used Horned Kavu and/or Sparkcaster as well. Other players would sometimes slow the deck down, either with those Elder Dragon splashes or with a Two-Headed Dragon top-end.

The deck was definitely a product of its time - the rotation to Invasion/Odyssey block standard brought even better green cards like Wild Mongrel and Call of the Herd, but ultimately the deck wasn't unfair enough in a world of Psychatog/Upheavals or chain wishing off of Mirari's Wake mana or madnessing around turn three Arrogant Wurms. Even so, it was little Hawk's first serious FNM deck and first taste of really playing Real Magic for Winners.

Obviously a lot of that stuff isn't that exciting now. We can get 12/12s for five with a lot less effort than Burst required using stuff like Ghalta, Primal Hunger, and we can play any number of 5/X for fours that don't have hideous drawbacks...and all of that is just barely good enough for Standard, nevermind a 40 life format where nuking someone for 21 on turn 5 is just not enough.

Even so, I kinda want to try it - Wort, the Raidmother is boring me so I itch for a green/red Commander that can scrap with the best of them. As a "core", let's extrapolate - for a 100 card deck to be "in the spirit of fires", we'd ideally want 4-7 sources of mass-haste, and maybe 10-13 mana dorks to take advantage of that tempo, plus 10-13 haymakers (which I am defining as a CMC 4-6 card that either hits for 5+ or has a huge EtB effect). As a rough starting point, my shell would be...

Fires 2020

Mass Haste: 5

1 Fires of Yavimaya

1 Hammer of Purphoros

1 Rhythm of the Wild

1 Ogre Battledriver

1 Samut, Tyrant Smasher

Mana Dorks: 10

1 Arbor Elf

1 Gyre Sage

1 Wood Elves

"Haymakers": 10

1 Flametongue Kavu

1 Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion

1 Polukranos, World Eater

1 Acidic Slime

1 Saproling Burst

1 Ghalta, Primal Hunger

1 Quartzwood Crasher

1 Shivan Wurm

1 Bane of Progress

1 Combustible Gearhulk

Approximate Total Cost:

The question from there is...who is the commander?

GRUUL:
Xenagos, God of Revels: Xenagos is the 600 lb Goat-God-Man in the room; he's clearly awesome as a commander of a deck like this. While awkward with classic Blastoderm and Saproling Burst, he functions as a pseudo-"Fires" effect out of the command zone while also ensuring our silly little beatdown plan scales to the format. He's resilient, he's powerful, and...he's a bit boring? I tried him a while ago and was underwhelemed. Sure, that was right when he released and I wasn't explicitly paying homage to my favorite archetype of yesteryear, but still. I'd like to see if anyone else is up to snuff. He will almost assuredly be in my 99 if he isn't commander though.

Radha, Heir to Keld - Provides a mana dork in the command zone to ensure smooth curving.

Gallia of the Endless Dance - Makes changelings attractive as she gives them haste; allows for some hand-fixing once the Saproling Burst fix is in.

Ulasht, the Hate Seed - cute if we want to go full self-bounce.

Neyith of the Dire Hunt - New and shiny. Some say she's just a worse XenaGod, but she does let us do fun/interesting things with Guild Feud and Ulvenwald Tracker and is super awesome with Ezuri's Predation. She also makes stuff like Thorn Mammoth or Territorial Allosaurus into more interesting pseudo-FTKs.

I wouldn't look seriously at another Gruul Commander, but let me know if you really think Grand Warlord Radha or whoever deserves a look :p.

NAYA:
Rith, the Awakener - mentioned for historical accuracy, but clearly if we go Selesnya the choice is...

Samut, Voice of Dissent - Fires in the command zone + some fun to be hand with Exert or Tap Abilities.

JUND:
Darigaaz, the Igniter - mentioned for historical accuracy. Clearly, however, the pick would be...

Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - talk about an EtB trigger and ability to "punch-out" people! Or....

Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - Boring and done to death, takes the deck into aristocrat direction, but has to be mentioned because he's so good. Also, has some funny "synergy" with Saproling Burst and Blastoderm and Fires...so there's that....

TEMUR: I am intrigued by Temur for the ability to run Temur Ascendancy as a "fires" + "draw" effect and lean harder on self-bounce with Crystal Shard, but have no clue who the commander would be. I'm too poor to go get Animar, Soul of Elements, Illuna, Apex of Wishes is a bit silly, Surrak Dragonclaw is a bit vanilla...maybe Yasova Dragonclaw with a "sac and steal" subtheme?

Five Color: With Golos, Tireless Pilgrim?

What do you guys think?

Serenade · Post by **Serenade** » 3 years ago

I wouldn't discount Grumgully, the Generous since most critters are non-Human. Not sure if you'll run Doubling Season for Burst and riot.

Tahngarth, First Mate has good stats and is unblockable with menace (Gruul War Chant).

But I'd probably run Gruul Yasova.

Post by **pokken** » 3 years ago

This deck already exists I think in mono green Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma - while he doesn't give haste he lets you flood the field with 4 mana 6/6s.

rujasu · Post by **rujasu** » 3 years ago

I have a fun Grand Warlord Radha build with Fires and other similar effects, but it's more of an elfball combo deck that just throws in the Fires effects to make for more fun/degenerate combos. The cheaper Radha would definitely make your deck more consistent, if that's what you're looking for.

Mono-green Goreclaw is an entirely different deck, but Goreclaw could be a card in a deck like this.

Mookie · Post by **Mookie** » 3 years ago

If your primary goal is to beat down with hasty fatties, I'll chip in my support for Samut, Voice of Dissent. While my own deck is primarily focused on tap abilities, I can attest that having Samut available to consistently grant haste to your team is a massive buff to Etali, Primal Storm, Sun Titan, and pretty much any other creature you want to attack with. I've actually been contemplating making a second, beatdown-focused Samut deck for ages.

After Samut, I'd probably lean towards Xenagos, God of Revels. A bit different focus due to the nature of Xenagod's trigger - you get more benefit for buffing creatures with evasion or trample than you get for buffing mana dorks or non-evasive creatures like Inferno Titan. Still a solid choice though.

Inkeyes22 · Post by **Inkeyes22** » 3 years ago

XenaGod was the first thing that I thought of when I read the title. It is probably the "right" choice, per say, but thinking about which deck I might want to face, my choices would be Gallia or Samut.

Gallia would help you reload, and there is often someone with shields down. I like when there is an aggro deck to keep the game moving. That might be a weird thing for a mostly Esper mage to say, but when everybody is just building up waiting for someone to break parity it can be a much longer game of everybody "draw-go" which is my job ya'll. I think Gallia would force you into difficult decisions, but it would also reward tight play more than most other builds.

I think W would add some good anthems to help hit harder, Samut also can help you take out the life-gain deck in short order. I can see you doing crazy things with Luminarch Ascension

TheAmericanSpirit · Post by **TheAmericanSpirit** » 3 years ago

If you go temur, maelstrom wanderer is fires & 2 freebies in the cz

Sinis · Post by **Sinis** » 3 years ago

Radha, Heart of Keld, perhaps? Or is that too land oriented?

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

Obviously Xenagos, God of Revels is just Fires of Yavimaya in the command zone...but yaaaawn.

If you actually break down that Fires of Yavimaya constructed deck, its not just about hitting hard, but about control as well. Thornscape Battlemage and Flametongue Kavu to remove anything on the board, and really only the Blastoderm is the dumb stompy.

So if you wanted to emulate the entire deck more, then in my opinion its more about utility creatures that can turn into heavy hitters. You've nailed it with the Bane of Progress in your list, serving duty as removal and ability to put pressure on opponents.

If you wanted a commander that emulated the actual deck more then..
Zacama, Primal Calamity is the example of doing the things with stompy and removal. But as I've done a primer on Zacama it tends to suggest other synergy (combo) and at 9 mana isn't exactly the early pressure you'd want.
Omnath, Locus of Rage also creates stompy creatures, while providing a Flametongue Kavu feel with being able to potentially deal 3 damage to clear blockers. But again tends to lead into rather generic builds around it.
Shattergang Brothers is another control general. You can get 3-for-1 deals (in a 4 player game) so has a sort of correlation with Flametongue Kavu and Thornscape Battlemage. You can turn your mana dorks into fodder later on into the game, which has nice synergy there.

I'm brewing a Neyith of the Dire Hunt budgetish build and I think it has a lot in common with Flametongue Kavu.
Sure I have lots of fight cards, but there is also Neyith ability to make opponents block, and I'm specifically looking at using a few firststrike creature to make sure that it kills opponents creatures and not yours.

Dunharrow · Post by **Dunharrow** » 3 years ago

Pathbreaker Ibex and Balefire Dragon are great with haste.
So is Etali, Primal Storm.

I will say that Maelstrom Wanderer can be a fires deck, and you don't even need fires. It's like fires and fatties in the command zone.

But I think that if you want to really be a fires deck, you should be gruul.

Of the ones you listed, I would say Xenagos or Radha. I actually think I would want Radha, Heart of Keld though. She helps you hit land drops and she helps you draw action. Or Zilortha, Strength Incarnate which I think is more in-line with the old fires deck.

My only issue with Xenagos is that the strategy becomes less 'Fires' and more multiple combat phases and trying to one-shot people.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » 3 years ago

Thanks for all the comments! I think the frontrunners for me are...

- Shattergang Brothers: I didn't originally have them on my radar, but darrenhabib's post was very persuasive. The Bros are a fine 4 CMC card, they create virtual 3-for-1s at will with their abilities, and they allow me to utilize my early ramp dorks and smaller utility dorks (Ravenous Chupacabra, Flametongue Kavu, and Reclamation Sage and what have you) to clear a path for my bruisers to rumble and mangle folks. They also provide a good way to extract just that last little ounce of #value out of stuff like Saproling Burst, Deadwood Treefolk, and any other fading/vanishing cards I elect to run. Oh, and they make for fun times with mirroring effects like Twinflame that are also on my radar. And even better, I may be able to get away with my favorite shenanigans of Pattern of Rebirth and Gamekeeper and Yavimaya Elder trickery. All of this with an ability expensive enough that it won't feel like I'm "building it wrong" to not be a pure aristocrat deck; "Fires" feels like a fine direction for it. Just all around seems like a grindy hasty blast.

- Samut, Voice of Dissent: White offers a ton - powerful EtB/LtB creatures like Sun Titan and Reveillark, great "army in a can" effects, anthems to help my little dorks hit above their weight class. I also get to run Thornscape Battlemage - not sure I will, but I could! Also one thing I neglected but that dareenhabib again pointed out was a more controlling approach; many Fires decks ran stuff like Earthquake to close out games but also to sweep away weenies while their own Birds and Chimeric Idols and Blastoderms were immune, and then following it up with a (hasty) Burst or a FTK to close the door. With mass haste I could lean on boardwipes especially tempo-positive ones like Hour of Revelation or even Wrath of God and then followup with a powerful hasty threat to put pressure on faster than my opponents can recover and defend themselves (I can potentially double-down on this with Blind Obedience if I want to be really rude). I also can be happy with my first list of haste outlets without needing to consider weaker cards like Fervor, Anger, or Mass Hysteria since I'll have mass-Haste in the Command Zone.

Both of these have the advantage of me not necessarily needing to buy any new cards, which I can't say of Zilortha, Strength Incarnate, Nyeith, Maelstrom Wanderer, Angry Omnath, Korovold, or Radha 3.0 (this removes them from the running I think). Yasova Dragonclaw and Radha, Heir to Keld aren't totally out of the running, but on the face of it I worry a bit on both. Yasova Dragonclaw could ignore the blue and "just" be a 4/2 Trampler with an occasionally relevant threaten effect...but that might feel "wrong", to have the option to be running counterspells and bounce spells and not be doing so. Radha, Heir to Keld stays most true to the letter of a Fires of Yavimaya law...but I think Samut or the Bros can be closer to its spirit while also forming a cohesive, scalable plan that won't just lose 100% of its games in modern EDH. Also it's a small thing, but I love me some 1-CMC dorks in this deck - Naya and Jund open a few up (Avacyn's Pilgrim or Elves of Deep Shadow and Deathrite Shaman), and there are no such options in Gruul or Temur.

BeneTleilax · Post by **BeneTleilax** » 3 years ago

korvold

ilovesaprolings · Post by **ilovesaprolings** » 3 years ago

Ghired, conclave exile is awesome with mass haste

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » 3 years ago

ilovesaprolings wrote: ↑
3 years ago
Ghired, conclave exile is awesome with mass haste

Oooh, I hadn't thought of that - but if Samut is Fires of Yavimaya in the command zone (mass haste) and Shattergang Brothers is FTK in the command zone (a decent body for 4 CMC that is also a living virtual card advantage engine), than Ghired is probably Saproling Burst in the command zone - 10+ damage of violence for just 5 CMC as long as you can enable him with Haste first. That's VERY tempting and I'll have to ponder it, thanks!

Inkeyes22 · Post by **Inkeyes22** » 3 years ago

Sounds like you need to run Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa/Vial Smasher the Fierce or Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper/Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and get some 4c action going on. One of my favorite decks was Dark Naya Zoo... maybe mash them up?

I don't remember the deck list, and I can't find one that ran Dark Confidant, but here is a sample list:

Martin Juza PT Austin 2009

4 Arid Mesa

1 Blood Crypt

1 Godless Shrine

4 Marsh Flats

1 Mountain

1 Steam Vents

4 Kird Ape

4 Steppe Lynx

4 Tarmogoyf

4 Wild Nacatl

SIDEBOARD

Approximate Total Cost:

darrenhabib · Post by **darrenhabib** » 3 years ago

I went and made a list of creature cards that I thought fitted my idea of the perceived deck archetype.
That is mainly creatures that have combat bonuses, or ways to kill permanents.

Decklist

Artifact/enchanment

1 Thrashing Brontodon

1 Duergar Hedge-Mage

1 Gemrazer

1 Glissa Sunseeker

1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon

1 Knight of Autumn

1 Hellkite Tyrant

Any removal

1 Sawtusk Demolisher

1 Steel Hellkite

1 Terastodon

1 Woodfall Primus

1 Zacama, Primal Calamity

1 Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire

1 Cavalier of Dawn

Other

1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

1 Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma

Approximate Total Cost:

Now its important when you think about that constructed deck that at its essence its a mid-range deck. A lot of the cards I've listed are "big-fatties" and so gearing up the deck to be able to support them sort of steers away from the concept mid-range.

So we are really looking more at 4-5 cmc and more like 6-7 cmc for some high end cards.
If I had to say what "signature" cards come from this, it would be Soltari Guerrillas, Cyclops Gladiator, Odric, Master Tactician, Terror of the Peaks, Glorybringer with high-end being Inferno Titan, Steel Hellkite, Kogla, the Titan Ape.
So even though Drakuseth, Maw of Flames and Balefire Dragon are the obvious ways to kill opponents creatures, I've selected Odric, Master Tactician as the more challenging way, as you can turn your 3-4 drop creatures into removal, rather than trying to ramp into big-fatties.

I have to say other cards that really resonate to me are Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, Tectonic Giant, Surly Badgersaur, Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion for card advantages as well.

I like most of the artifact/enchantment removal with Thrashing Brontodon, Duergar Hedge-Mage, Gemrazer, Glissa Sunseeker, Knight of Autumn.
Sawtusk Demolisher can compliment Gemrazer and I also really like Cavalier of Dawn as a catchall.

So as I've been trying to suggest a mid-range approach, rather than over-the-top hard hitting creatures and attacks, I feel like there are some obvious choices.
Oracle of Mul Daya, Radha, Heart of Keld, Courser of Kruphix, Vizier of the Menagerie, Beast Whisperer.

As far as trying to turn more advantages from your one drop mana creature, Ohran Frostfang and Fireflux Squad are appealing.
You'd probably want at least one effect which pumps up your creatures. Craterhoof Behemoth is the obviously...yawn...sorry can't even finish that sentence.

Now you may have noticed that all my suggests are Naya wrg.
So candidates for the helm that I could think of are Samut, Voice of Dissent, Gahiji, Honored One, Ghired, Conclave Exile.
I'd personally go for Samut, Voice of Dissent as it creates more opportunities with attack bonuses.

But there is also an argument for playing black as well as it give you access to some cool cards like Wasitora, Nekoru Queen, Brutal Hordechief, Rankle, Master of Pranks, Tymna the Weaver to name a few.
If that was the case then I'd suggest Saskia the Unyielding as she can really kill opponents quickly, surprisingly so.

I will say that I still like Zacama, Primal Calamity in the 99, even though its 9 mana is not exactly "mid-range" the fact that it untaps your lands so is a "free play" for the turn is appealing..just saying I'm still a sucker at least one haymaker in the deck.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » 3 years ago

I think for budget reasons I am strongly leaning towards Samut, Voice of Dissent. I like getting an excuse to put my Combat Celebrantand Champion of Rhonasto good use, and I like the idea of having that haste in the command zone.

I think I'll start cooking up a list of "the deck as it will be built right now without having to go to my LGS or order off of a website". The big thing to me will be sequencing: in a perfect world the deck seems to want...

A mana dork into a mass-haste enabler into a midrangey threat into Samut into a haymaker or two midrangey "two for one" effects.

So we don't want a ton of stuff at 5 CMC. We do want a critical mass of one and two CMC ramp, ideally in the form of bodies. We absolutely want stuff like Beast Whispererand Vizier of the Menagerieto turn those dorks into effectively "free cards" once Samut is out. We want powerful proactive 4 CMC cards and we want 5-6 CMC cards with powerful combat effects. We don't want a ton of equipment, and we want a lot of our answers to be on bodies as well for incidental value and damage. We want very few 7+ drops. Sounds like a great template to me!

		Decks
wb teysa [primer] bw	bg tasigur [primer] gu	ug animar gr	ur mizzix ru	wu brago uw
rg samut [primer]gw	wu sharuum ub	uu thada uu	ub kess br	companion cube

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