Grothama, All-Devouring - The Maw of Oblivion

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SquirrelToken
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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

Another month, another set has come out. Well, two, actually. Jumpstart 2022 exists, and so we'll look at that as well as New New Phyrexia.

Runadi, Behemoth Caller affects 9 relevant cards in my deck (I didn't count creatures with MV 5, because one +1/+1 counter seems lame). It's also a mana dork on 3, which perfectly curves into turn 4 Grothama, except I don't want to do that most of the time. But there are a bunch of other 5-drops, so a mana dork on 3 is still OK. And it grants the biggest of the beaters Haste. It's at least worth a look.

Benevolent Hydra could be a big creature? Pass. We don't have counter synergy, and we're not looking for Kraklin 4.0.

Bloated Contaminator - While it's nice and over rate, a 4/4 for 3 doesn't make the cut here. Can't kill Grothama, nothing to see. Move along.

Cankerbloom - Not the worst utility card, by a long shot. I don't have a ton of counters in the deck, so I don't think that the last mode is going to do much, but if you're on a more planeswalker-heavy build or you've got more counter synergy, then go ahead and try it over something else.

Carnivorous Canopy - Same thing, really.

Conduit of Worlds - Lets us regrow a permanent every turn (the first half may as well be blank). Could take the spot from Noxious Revival.

Evolved Spinoderm - This is basically Nasty Blasty, and we don't run that. Pass.

Nissa, Ascended Animist - I was lucky enough to open her in my prerelease pool, and she took over every game in which I drew her. So my experience is a little colored in her favor, but all of these abilities seem like things that we want to do. Play her for 7, 6, or 5. Crank out tokens, nuke opposing toys, or ult and overrun. I'm definitely going to try to find a spot for her in this build.

Noxious Assault - I only have one of the "make a token army" cards left, so I don't think that this has a place in my deck, but if you're leaning towards a more tokeny build with Broodhatch Nantuko and Druid's Call, I don't hate it, if you're already running Triumph of the Hordes.

Ruthless Predation - In the words of Mon Mothma, "Admiral Ackbar, please."

Tyrranax Rex - LOLwhat? 7: Kill Grothama. I dunno, it's nice but is it better than any of the big green fat that we already have? I don't think so - a lot of what we already have is indestructible or regenerative, meaning it survives to beat face another day while also one-shotting Grothama.

Tyvar's Stand - Indestructible, Hexproof, AND gets bigger? Yes please. This is everything that I like about Gaea's Gift except that it can also let one of our smaller critters kill Grothama and survive, in addition to being surprise protection from getting Grothama murdered. Definitely coming in.

Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus - This one's a bit of a head-scratcher. She can be indestructible, which is very nice, but she can never kill Grothama on her own, BUT she can punch the Wurm and then sac her after blockers or something so we get a solid mitt of new cards. Note that you can activate the ability even if she's already indestructible, so you can just sac the Wurm. I'd like to try her out; I think that she helps with Plan B, which is "beat face with a ton of Green fat".

So actually a pretty impactful winter. Nissa and Zopandrel definitely, Tyvar's Stand for sure, Conduit of Worlds and Runadi are maybes. I don't know what's coming out yet, but I wanted to get this written up before my children drove every single coherent thought from my skull.

What do you all think? If there's anyone still reading this, let me know what cards you're considering from the last couple sets that make your cut, what's coming out, and why.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

So I had someone ask for my decklist and figured I ought to share how my list differs from Kyra's. I started to type up a reply but then felt that it would be helpful to the Hug Slug community if I just posted my list and comments here:

Here's what it looked like a couple weeks ago:
Decklist

Wincons

Approximate Total Cost:

I think that on the chopping block for me are:
Nature's Claim is thinking about getting replaced with something else that smashes stuff. I feel slightly prejudiced against Druid's Call and Broodhatch Nantuko because I've never drawn them early. I may have grabbed them one of the times that I drew 30 cards in a turn, but by then they're completely obsolete and I'm winning with something enormous. I'd like to see a game where I run them out on turn 2/3, and then smash Grothama into them on turn 6. Dragon Throne is also a card that just makes my team huge, but I don't have a huge team, just a team of some huge beaters, so it's never really done work for me. Crop Rotation should really stay in - if I draw a million cards, then it finds me Reliquary Tower.

Vigor is in my list and not Kyra's, and I wanted to call out just how much of a blowout it is. In my first game with this list, I slammed Vigor turn 6 and attacked with Grothama and Ghalta. They each ended up being 22/22. It's ludicrous and will win you games. It's a must-remove for your opponents.

Top four cards in this deck (no particular order):
Psychosis Crawler
Vigor
Berserk
Greater Good

These cards win games. Full stop.

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Kyra Warsong
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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

Ahhh, the ironiest thing is I literally just messaged you with my thoughts on ONE 😅 I missed Tyvar's Stand tho, which is embarrassing because one mana instants are MY THING (TM), although it's not really a one mana instant.

One quick point of order, I do in fact run Vigor and have since the first draft of this deck; and it is definitely one of the most backbreaking cards in the deck, not to mention one of the coolest interactions with Grothama 🥰 if you don't run it seriously consider it, well worth the $12.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

Additionally I'd like to say your list is delightful 🥰 I'm interested to hear how Monster Manual is working for you? I kinda like it and want to give it a try.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

Kyra Warsong wrote:
1 year ago
Additionally I'd like to say your list is delightful 🥰 I'm interested to hear how Monster Manual is working for you? I kinda like it and want to give it a try.
Sadly, haven't drawn it yet.

I'm going to have to see if my friends will let me start with one testing card in my opening hand every game, so that I can see how well they work. I love the randomness of the format, and how I don't usually see the same cards twice, but it does make it hard to playtest when the card I want to try ends up on the bottom.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

Had another game with Grothama the other night. It actually went more like a "normal" Grothama game, with me playing über-cautiously and running out Grothama strictly as a draw spell. I got an early Selvala into Hunted Troll, and while I did find myself on the receiving end of some faerie token beatdown, I played Grothama, attacked with the Troll, fought and regenerated, and drew ten cards - almost all lands. Fortunately, one of them was a Crop Rotation so I was able to trade one of my Forests for a Reliquary Tower. I did it again the next turn, then found Psychosis Crawler. The following turn, I ran out the Crawler with 20 cards in my hand, drawing a card from Selvala and dinging my opponents. I played Unnatural Growth and attacked with a few big creatures. One of them fought Grothama, and I drew 24 more cards, including Berserk, and that was game.

In the bottom 20 cards of my library that I never saw? Monster Manual, Runadi, and Nissa. Why is it always the new cards that I never draw (I have not yet acquired Tyvar's Stand [seriously, how hard is it to open an uncommon from a couple prerelease events?] and Zopandrel)?

I do like the idea of adding more Trample to the deck. Shadowspear is probably top of my list for that.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

I had two games with Grothama last weekend. One of them started with "Land, Sol Ring," and finished accordingly. I mean, really, what deck DOESN'T vomit out goodness if it's two turns ahead of the rest of the table? Entwined Tooth and Nail for Big Fat, GG. Game two was more interesting. I drew and played Runadi, and he was ... fine? I got some extra counters on stuff, he didn't give anything haste, he was basically just a mana dork. What was insane was the Defiler of Vigor. I flopped that Snake (Wurm?) onto my playmat and my opponent said "Ohhhh, that's kill on sight. I've seen what that can do." OK, cool. Turns out, the part that I thought would be important - the mana discount - wasn't, terribly. I just dumped a bajillion counters onto my team and turned them sideways. "Here you go. Green permanent spells." I'd really discounted that secondary ability as trinket text, but it gets the job done! After those two games I'm even more interested in making things Tramply. I think I'm going to try to trade for that Shadowspear (maybe LOTR will make a box topper of it called Aiglos).

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

Okay, quick thoughts on MOM. I'm great! I am very attractive and do good work.

I'm a mom. That's the joke.

Anywho, cards:

The two that I have my eye on from this set are Ancient Imperiosaur and Surrak and Goreclaw. Ancient Imperiosaur doesn't look great for us at first blush, and I don't know that we play enough creatures to be convoking with any kind of regularity, but it is worth noting that with even one creature this big dinosaur can kill Grothama. Two creatures, a 5 mana creature that ices Grothama, and if we go 3+ it gets progressively better. I don't know that we should be relying on it because the floor is extremely subpar. Nextly, Surrak and Goreclaw are delightfully two cards I have at various times toyed with in this deck before. 6 mana should be a big game for us, and giving all our creatures haste, trample, and extra power feels... Good? Of the two I'm much more excited about Surrak and Goreclaw and should very much like to see if they're good enough.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

Small addendum to MOM: I'm interested in trying Invasion of Ikoria. It feels like a slightly better Green Sun's Zenith for one additional mama that also just has an 8/8 that gives our monsters penetration stapled to it. Yes there is a joke there and I am far too saintly to make it 😇

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Post by DagwooD2199 » 1 year ago

Absolutely new to the page. (I found it just a few days ago) been working on big wurm about a year tho. Thoughts and criticisms are welcome. (No hurt feelings here) just want to join the community and push this further.

[COMMANDER]
1 Grothama, All-Devouring

[PLANESWALKERS]
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

[CREATURES]
1 Apex Altisaur
1 Arbor Elf
1 Broodhatch Nantuko
1 Defiler of Vigor
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
1 Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Mossbridge Troll
1 Pathbreaker Ibex
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Saber Ants
1 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
1 Silverback Elder
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Stonehoof Chieftain
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Vigor
1 Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus

[ARTIFACTS]
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Emerald Medallion
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 The Great Henge
1 Thought Vessel

[INSTANTS]
1 Ancient Animus
1 Beast Within
1 Berserk
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Momentous Fall
1 Prizefight
1 Ram Through
1 Return of the Wildspeaker
1 Tamiyo's Safekeeping

[SORCERIES]
1 Blizzard Brawl
1 Cultivate
1 Hypergenesis
1 Life's Legacy
1 Natural Order
1 Nature's Lore
1 Prey Upon
1 Rampant Growth
1 Rishkar's Expertise
1 Savage Punch
1 Traverse the Outlands

[ENCHANTMENTS]
1 Burgeoning
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Druid's Call
1 Garruk's Uprising
1 Greater Good
1 Kenrith's Transformation
1 Unnatural Growth
1 Wild Growth

[LANDS]
1 Castle Garenbrig
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Rogue's Passage
32 Snow-Covered Forest

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

I think you missed the decklist tag on your post.
DagwooD2199 wrote:
1 year ago
Absolutely new to the page. (I found it just a few days ago) been working on big wurm about a year tho. Thoughts and criticisms are welcome. (No hurt feelings here) just want to join the community and push this further.
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:


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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

DagwooD2199 wrote:
1 year ago
Absolutely new to the page. (I found it just a few days ago) been working on big wurm about a year tho. Thoughts and criticisms are welcome. (No hurt feelings here) just want to join the community and push this further.
Hi DagwooD, welcome to the Cult of the Slug! Looking at your list, I see my four top Grothama cards, so I'd say you're off to a good start. I also see a lot of mana dorks, which are a totally meta call - I'm not so much running any, but I think that you're fine doing so if it helps you get off the blocks faster. You're also running a ton of Fight cards, which, I'm not gonna lie, aren't really my thing, nor Kyra's either. She put it way better than I could in the O.P. "She's not 'the fight Commander' just because she has the word 'fight' printed on her, and in fact if you use this to make Grothama fight your opponent's creatures, you'll be handing them cards." I get that we're running out a lot of big green fat, and THOSE things can fight opponents' creatures to clear away blockers, or to smush utility creatures, but ... we're running lots of big green fat. All we have to do is find some Trample somewhere and turn things sideways. My suggestion would be to trim the fight a bit and focus on finding a way to kill Grothama. I only see three creatures in your list that can come down and kill her: Ghalta, Stonehoof, and Mossbridge. You're going to want more. Greater Good is a great start, but you're looking to guarantee that you can cash her in for cards.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 1 year ago

DagwooD2199 wrote:
1 year ago
Absolutely new to the page. (I found it just a few days ago) been working on big wurm about a year tho. Thoughts and criticisms are welcome. (No hurt feelings here) just want to join the community and push this further.
One thing that I wanted to ask about was your inclusion of Gaea's Cradle. You've got the Saber Ants and the Broodhatch going, so it does look like you're going to have some board presence, but it doesn't really feel like a "Gaea's Cradle deck", except that any deck that runs green may as well be a Gaea's Cradle deck. So my question is, how much do you usually end up tapping your Cradle for? I'd guess that if I ran it, it'd end up being about 3, which, again, is not BAD. It's just not "Oh, by the way, Chatterfang created fifteen squirrels this turn" good. Basically, if I drop a Cradle, I expect to pretty much become Public Enemy Number One, and a few extra mana just doesn't feel worth it.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 1 year ago

So my son is awake at 2:40 in the morning, so I'm here, playing with Magic cards and trying to manage my personal sanity.

@DagwooD2199, it seems like you're leaning into the EDHRec version of this deck; totally reasonable, that's how most decks start, I think! Unfortunately, it's not always a good indicator of what plays well with a particular general, and that's one of my favorite things about Grothama in particular; she's harder to build and pilot than she looks like at first blush!

I think I was inspired a little bit by Oathbreaker, where you have a commander and a signature spell in the command zone. It was this concept that got me used to the idea of having a sorcery in the command zone rather than a creature (in this case, a very flexible sorcery that is sometimes just a 10/8). Protecting Grothama is secondary to getting value from her yourself; ideally she will come down the turn after a big threat to draw you a copious amount of cards.

In my not at all humble opinion, I believe that this deck should go tall, not wide, and that your creatures should be cards you're comfortable pitching into the graveyard. You might be running all those mana dorks because you need early blockers, like Squirrel said, but you might also be running them because that's just what green decks do, and if that is the case, I think this might be a mistake. You may be better served by slightly more expensive creatures that grab lands and you can then slam into Grothama for a bit of added value. Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, Springbloom Druid, and Solemn Simulacrum are the sort of cards I'm talking about. Now I don't run most of these, because I feel like the sorcery versions of these cards are generally more efficient (ie Nature's Lore, Primal Growth), but I can see a version of the deck that runs these cards effectively.

Otherwise, I'd like to echo Squirrel, he's my trusted Grothama enthusiast and just a delight to talk to. He's got an extremely good handle on the deck. And thanks for giving her a try, in my opinion she's underrated and I dearly love a deck that takes some thinking to build and pilot well.

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Post by DagwooD2199 » 1 year ago

Ive binged watched a ton of cEDH content on youtube lately. So I'm noticing a super subtle trend that every deck is VERY commander dependant. Krark/sakashima doesn't do squat if krark isn't out. Kinnan doesn't do broken things without him, etc etc. If every deck that's commander dependant can't do the broken things without their commander, why are we not running as much instant speed creature kill as possible? Opponents play their commander, insta kill on sight while advancing our board or at least not losing parity. Get big wurm out asap, use fight spells before they get going and kill their plan before it starts. Thinking of dropping mana dorks for green stax pieces like collector ouphe (which can fight other dtax peces) and drop big momma to combo off. Thoughts?

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Post by DagwooD2199 » 1 year ago

I really do feel like there is a niche unexplored place in the meta where we can attack that bullies the in between phases of most win cons. Like nature's claim on an underworld breach or a ram through on an opponents commander in response to a trigger. Really looking to retool the deck for a more controlly staxy kinda combo-ish finish with our big green baddies.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 11 months ago

I mean, you're not wrong, except that I don't think that "decks are commander-dependent" is really a subtle secret of the format. From my perspective, it's emblazoned large at the top of the sign. Now, if I were looking to stomp on other people's dreams and just murder opposing commanders as fast as possible, I'd run something like Gruulfriends 1.0, or Visara. I've played against Gruulfriends 1.0, and it's mana and damage-based removal from the command zone. Grothama basically got stuck in the command zone, and that's where the "Slug Sluggers" category of my deck helped me survive. Indestructible creatures and regenerating creatures helped me block until I could get the complete engine going all in one turn. I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not a cEDH player, and I don't expect Grothama to really run the rounds at a cEDH table. If you're looking to go mono-G Fight/Disrupt Their Plan, I'd run with Rhonas the Indomitable. Deathtouch and Indestructible, costs only 3. Every Fight spell removes a creature.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 11 months ago

It's also worth noting that removal spells are important but usually do next to nothing to develop your game plan. There was a period when I was playing as much removal as I could. I frequently found my hand full of removal and no gas. And remember, the commander doesn't matter if the player is dead.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 11 months ago

New set new cards! At first I was pretty low on Aftermath, but I think that Drannith Ruins might have legs, and is at least worth trying.

Small set small post.

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 11 months ago

Personal update, I guess? I'm grabbing a copy of God-Eternal Rhonas to replace my aging, sagging Seedguide Ash. She's all soft and rotting, the years have not been kind to some of my old favorites; back in the day a death trigger for 3 forests seemed like spectacular value but most of the time she sits around as an overcosted 4/4.

I mentioned this before, but this version of Rhonas has a spectacular benefit in that it only doubles power, not toughness, making everything better at fighting Grothama without putting her out of reach for anything with less than 8 power. Little things like this that usually make a card strictly worse but push it a little further in this deck.

I just want to reiterate how much I love this deck. The temptation with Grothama is just to build Stompy.dec, not that we don't stompy in our own way, it's just so satisfying to do it differently.

Also! This primer is the second result when you Google "Grothama edh primer" which feels good.

Aftermath only has like 1 green card /s so we're not gonna find much there for us. I briefly considered Animist's Might but ultimately I don't think it's worth a slot. Drannith Ruins does work for nearly every creature in the deck and is probably a slightly better (?) Oran-Rief the Vastwood, although in my experience that card almost never gets activated. Still, worth a try.

💖

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 10 months ago

All right, it's time to delve into Middle Earth, which, perhaps not surprisingly, doesn't have a ton for us. I'm going to touch on a couple I think might be worthwhile and hyperfocus on an uncommon no one else cares about.

Windswift Slice - I am not and never have been a fan of the Prey Upon variety of card, but this particular version might have legs. In a similar vein to the situational powerhouse Ram Through, Windswift Slice gives you a payoff for overshooting the target creature's toughness. We have about 17 creatures that enable this, including our commander. Now, as usual, the downside is significant: this is a dead card if you've not managed to stick a big creature. Ultimately I think this is a little too situational, but I may try it in lieu of Broodhatch Nantuko since I think it works a little more proactively with Grothama than the insect. Also put this in the basket of uses for Phyrexian Dreadnought as it's an instant, turning it into a 4 mana removal spell with a pretty good payoff.

Entish Restoration - So this is just a straight upgrade to Harrow! I think this pretty readily replaces Primal Growth, which is really best in a situation where you're sticking a little creature early and then trading up for two lands. We satisfy the 4 power condition pretty easily, and worst case scenario it's Harrow, which we already play as is.

Fangorn, Tree Shepherd - There's a lot to like about Treebeard, but the downsides are there too. He doesn't kill Grothama despite living through the fight. I love holding onto green mana between steps and phases and doubling mana from forests, I just don't think he furthers our game plan enough to warrant inclusion; we really want the top of the curve to interact with Grothama and he just doesn't seem to do that.

Legolas, Master Archer - I got very briefly excited by this card (it doesn't say 'creature you don't control!!') but came to the conclusion pretty quickly that Legolas is on an entirely different quest than we are. In another world where we're running budget combat tricks Grothama, I could potentially see Legolas being an all-star, but in this current and (in my not even slightly humble opinion) better build I think he doesn't have enough support to do more than a couple damage to Grothama.

Last March of the Ents - As much as I love this card, we're at the top of the curve here, and Rishkar's Expertise does this better and cheaper. 8 feels like a little too high on the curve for something this conditional. We have a few cards that do a similar thing, although of course they don't put everything into play. If anyone wants to try this, please do and let me know how it goes.

And... That's kinda it. I suppose it's not surprising, Lord of the Rings doesn't really have big green coded creatures other than ents, who are famously treefolk and have already been established as the 'big toughness' creature type. We did get a fantastic ramp spell and a potential removal spell with utility, which I think is an okay haul from the set.

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Post by SquirrelToken » 10 months ago

What do you think about Mithril Coat? Three mana for an instant-speed save Grothama. It doesn't advance our game plan at all, but it does shore up our weakness a bit and if we overextend it can cover our butts in the face of a wrath. Then for 3 mana, the next Slug Slugger can survive murdering the Hug Slug. I'm not interested in the card at Sorcery speed (looking at you, Darksteel Plate) but as a trick to save our bacon it seems much more palatable. I might take out Runadi, since I was thoroughly unimpressed the last time I played him.

Entish Restoration is a good call - I was definitely going to pick one up for Angry Omnath, but it'll do almost as much work here too. I realize that I previously came out with a hard anti-UB stance, and refused to play that Tyrranid, so picking up LOTR may seem hypocritical of me, but ... yeah. I could write a paragraph or two about why LOTR is such a better fit for Magic cards than really any other non-MTG IP, but we'll just go with "nertz to that, I don't care".

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 10 months ago

I think Mithril Coat... Might actually be worth a slot. I remember cutting Darksteel Plate ages ago because the cost was so bloated, but shortcutting that with the Coat seems like it might soften that cost enough to try it. Also I imagine that card is going to appreciate in value like Lightning Greaves did; especially since it's going to be quite difficult to reprint. Do I know what I'd cut for it? ...no, I do not 😅

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 10 months ago

An after action report on a line of play I didn't expect.

T4: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds in play. Land for turn = 4 mana. Cast Phyrexian Dreadnought. Activate Selvala with PD trigger on the stack, net 12 mana, draw card. Proceed to cast Temur Sabertooth draw card, Rhonas the Indomitable draw card, Sword of Feast and Famine, equip Rhonas with the Sword and leave mana up for a Sabertooth activation.

T5: Activate Selvala, get 7 mana, cast Surrak and Goreclaw, cast Birthing Pod, Pod Selvala for Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma, cast Ghalta, Primal Hunger for 2. Swing in for 35.

I won that game 😁

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Post by Kyra Warsong » 9 months ago

Took Grothama out for a spin this afternoon! It was so much fun, I got in five games, three of which I won! Some impressions/stories:

Consulate Dreadnought is just delightful. Boost it with Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma or sac Grothama to High Market after combat. I played it early in every game, and every game it did exactly what I wanted it to.

A very fun combo that fell into my lap: Mosswort Bridge had God-Eternal Rhonas hidden away, and I had Greater Good in play. I played Phyrexian Dreadnought and activated the bridge in response, doubling PD's power to 24, then sacrificed it to draw 24, discard 3.

I got a 98/46 Mossbridge Troll and killed two players in one go with a Ram Through. Surprisingly, I did not win that game.

Noxious Revival was so clutch so many times. I played it in almost every game

And of course, I won off a Psychosis Crawler draw.

I love this deck. It's just... so satisfying to play, there are so many sneaky little things that can be done to tip the balance in your favor.

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