Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[toctheyounger]

I got one game in tonight, it was pretty uneventful, fighting way out of my weight class. I had a great opener of multiple 2-drops including Gravecrawler into Phyrexian Ghoul and Phyrexian Altar and Sevinne's Reclamation in hand but...Urza had a Counterspell on a Isochron Scepter.

I think I need to just not bring this out vs. those decks, it's way too much power level wise.

Yeah, that might be a tiny bit too top tier. I feel like the optimum Varina could hang at like a 8.5-9, but not a 10.

[toctheyounger]

I should say though I do really like gaming as the underdog. The only thing thatd really stop me trying for cedh beats is the lack of funds and premium tech to compete for speed/permission on the stack.

[pokken]

Yeah, that might be a tiny bit too top tier. I feel like the optimum Varina could hang at like a 8.5-9, but not a 10.

Yeah I think varina could hang at that power it just wouldn't be super fun. I'm happy with my build except maybe a couple interactive pieces and maybe tutors.

The problem is mainly that varina doesn't super contribute to the combos and it's hard to get enough dudes in there with the interaction requirements.

I think it's possible you could build a deck focused on making varina zombies with her ability but that is really substantially different. And probably just worse than tymna who generates easier ca with better creatures.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, that might be a tiny bit too top tier. I feel like the optimum Varina could hang at like a 8.5-9, but not a 10.

Yeah I think varina could hang at that power it just wouldn't be super fun. I'm happy with my build except maybe a couple interactive pieces and maybe tutors.

The problem is mainly that varina doesn't super contribute to the combos and it's hard to get enough dudes in there with the interaction requirements.

I think it's possible you could build a deck focused on making varina zombies with her ability but that is really substantially different. And probably just worse than tymna who generates easier ca with better creatures.

Tymna is just more efficient. I think Varina could be pretty lean and mean but it would be hard going at the top of the format. I assume you'd want a consultation/oracle win con or similar but it feels like you'd need to reliably have swathes of zombies attacking or a way to massively speed up the churn through the deck either way. Feels doable but still suboptimal to something like opus thief or whatever anyway. But hey, the heart wants what the heart wants and if you wanna run her at that level it seems possible, just not with a stellar win rate.

[plaganegra]

I got to play a game last night and won a very decisive victory!

I went first, had weathered wayfarer and never got to use it... /sad lol. Never got to do any land manipulation.

The deck played as would hope. I was able to sort of curve out with zombies and swing with varina for value in thee arly game. Nobody wanted to block my stitcher's supplier or my Tainted Adversary. I got a ton of value out of my cycling, getting a free silversmote ghoul on T5 and filling my yard with a bunch of zombies in the mid game.

I cast Necroduality and all I can say is WOW - this card is powerful. Doubled so many things the turn I cast it since I used mana vault and crypt of agadeem to generate a ton of mana that turn and played like 4 zombies after the enchantment. Duality was blown up before it got back to my turn again, but I got to double an undead augur which ended up drawing me a ton of cards the next turn when I dropped tombstone stairwell. I was creating 17 zombies a turn with a wayward servant out but the next player board wiped so it saved everyone from dying, before the turn cycle was over. Ended up drawing 20 cards off of Augur and nuking everyone for 20 with the servant with only the first tombstone trigger. The remaining turns nobody did anything with their zombies. It got back to me and I cast Empty the laboratory for 17 (again, crypt of agadeem coming up big) and hit gray merchant and 15 other zombies (ran out of zombies in my deck) to finish everyone off.

Probably one of the most thematic and satisfying victories I have every had with the deck! My deck snowballed just the way I wanted it to. With everything I was doing just adding to the pile of bodies both on the field and in the GY. It took no time at all to hit critical mass with a few very powerful zombie effects to pull a very easy victory. I dont even remember what my opponents were trying to do because around T5 I became the archenemy and it didnt even matter.

3 stars of the Game: Necroduality, Tombstone Stairwell, Crypt of Agadeem
Honorable Mention: Empty the Laboratory

I think the game ended somewhere around Turn 9 with a giant explosion of zombies.

Necroduality emphasizes the value of cards like silversmote ghoul which copy on ETB. I got to do that once before duality was blown up. Just insane value if duality can stick. It is a "blow up on sight" card for your opponents and should be.

I did not get my Haakon in time to put it in the deck and try him out. However I think for the first time since I started working on Varina I am completely satisfied with my list and how my deck plays. After adding Haakon I probably wont make any changes until new relevant cards get printed…

[ChocoDude]

Wow! Such a glowing review. Care to share your current decklist?

[pzbw7z]

So, Necroduality, Gravecrawler and Phyrexian Altar = all the B you can eat?

EDIT: I suppose you could sac some of the copies for U or W if you had a mind to.

[toctheyounger]

Very pleasing to hear that about Duality. It was always possible for it to be a winmore inclusion, but its nice to know that it games hard: its the most expensive card I've bought since MH2 came and I grabbed a couple fetches and its nice to know the credit went to a good place.

I had some game time myself last week, and it was a real grinder (not the app). Went up against Grismold, the Dreadsower, and while none of the rest of the decks mattered, this one was a tough match up when this deck had a slow start. Its just a constant on board threat that can really hammer you. Essentially he cropped on my win con as I spent a great degree of the game with Tombstone Stairwell rotting in my hand. I got things right down to the wire and I was happy with my sequencing (its so important for Varina), but the game did really reinforce some of my picks for stuff that I need to drop.

I'm still without updates myself, but I do have orders to pick up. I finally managed to get a Shambling Ghast and a few other curve droppers too which is nice, and I, too, will likely add the wayfarer, crypt and coffers package. In for a penny, in for a pound I guess. Theres a couple other recent cards I've yet to grab in Tainted Adversary and Champion of the Perished, but I'm sort of happy to wait for those a little anyway. I've got most of the curve droppers I want, these are sort of surplus to some degree.

As an aside I'm tossing up pulling apart my Dralnu, Lich Lord list which would free up a Fierce Guardianship, Entomb and possibly some other stuff, I forget. Its a shame, but I just don't play it often and I've got too many lists to keep up to snuff anyway so it might end up just getting pulled apart. If I do, Varina will almost certainly be the primary benefactor.

[plaganegra]

Wow! Such a glowing review. Care to share your current decklist?

This is what I played with, except I had in Mikaeus and Grimgrin for Leyline and Haakon. Grimgrin was an important sac outlet in the game, so I might have to add him back in actually...

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander:

1 Varina, Lich Queen

Creatures:

1 Carrion Feeder

1 Champion of the Perished

1 Changeling Outcast

1 Cryptbreaker

1 Foulmire Knight // Profane Insight

1 Gravecrawler

1 Stitcher's Supplier

1 Weathered Wayfarer

1 Apprentice Necromancer

1 Binding Mummy

1 Corpse Knight

1 Lazotep Chancellor

1 Nightscape Familiar

1 Relentless Dead

1 Shapesharer

1 Shepherd of Rot

1 Snapcaster Mage

1 Tainted Adversary

1 Undead Augur

1 Wayward Servant

1 Death Baron

1 Diregraf Colossus

1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge

1 Headless Rider

1 Master of Death

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Mirror Entity

1 Plague Belcher

1 Prized Amalgam

1 Silversmote Ghoul

1 Zombie Master

1 Corpse Augur

1 Repository Skaab

1 Tormod, the Desecrator

1 Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver

1 Wonder

1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Mana Rocks:

1 Chrome Mox

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mox Diamond

1 Sol Ring

1 Arcane Signet

1 Ashnod's Altar

1 Phyrexian Altar

Interaction:

1 Pact of Negation

1 Swan Song

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Anguished Unmaking

1 Winds of Abandon

1 Toxic Deluge

1 Devastating Mastery

Utility:

1 Entomb

1 Buried Alive

1 Intuition

1 Empty the Laboratory

1 Sevinne's Reclamation

1 Living Death

1 Patriarch's Bidding

1 Zombie Apocalypse

Enchantments:

1 Land Tax

1 Leyline of Anticipation

1 Necroduality

1 Tombstone Stairwell

1 Kindred Discovery

Lands (35):

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

1 Phyrexian Tower

1 Unholy Grotto

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Flooded Strand

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Polluted Delta

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Prismatic Vista

2 Island

2 Plains

4 Swamp

1 Godless Shrine

1 Watery Grave

1 Scrubland

1 Tundra

1 Underground Sea

1 Cavern of Souls

1 Command Tower

1 Mana Confluence

1 Crypt of Agadeem

1 Dimir Aqueduct

1 Morphic Pool

1 Vault of Champions

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt

Approximate Total Cost:

[pokken]

Grimgrin was an important sac outlet in the game,

I really think you guys who play Grimgrin, Corpse-Born should give Phyrexian Ghoul a try 3 mana is a LOT less, and the ability to just blast someone for 20 is real. The Nantuko Husk dudes have bene really good.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah I'm not convinced Grimgrin is a must. Hes a tank that can target down threats but he feels like he wants to be in a different deck, possibly his own. I could believe that Nantuko Husk et al are more efficient, that stands to reason. The only real thing missing is the targeted removal.

Honestly if there were a functional reprint of Carrion Feeder I'd be very happy with that. End of the day its the outlet we're after, not the payoff.

[plaganegra]

Yeah I'm not convinced Grimgrin is a must. Hes a tank that can target down threats but he feels like he wants to be in a different deck, possibly his own. I could believe that Nantuko Husk et al are more efficient, that stands to reason. The only real thing missing is the targeted removal.

Honestly if there were a functional reprint of Carrion Feeder I'd be very happy with that. End of the day its the outlet we're after, not the payoff.

The Husks are definitely leaner, but I still think Grimgrin is meaner. 2 more mana for reusable targeted removal on a zombie with a similar "pump" effect cannot be overlooked. Every time I take out grimgrin I put him back in lol. He fills a lot of holes for 5 mana. I wish he was not 5 mana though lol. He could have easily cost less and had weaker stats since he does nothing without support... Alas

Anyway I actually use the removal. Having a zombie that can target nuke things is valuable. I am open to trying out the ghoul though. Hard decision for me

[toctheyounger]

Yeah I'm not convinced Grimgrin is a must. Hes a tank that can target down threats but he feels like he wants to be in a different deck, possibly his own. I could believe that Nantuko Husk et al are more efficient, that stands to reason. The only real thing missing is the targeted removal.

Honestly if there were a functional reprint of Carrion Feeder I'd be very happy with that. End of the day its the outlet we're after, not the payoff.

The Husks are definitely leaner, but I still think Grimgrin is meaner. 2 more mana for reusable targeted removal on a zombie with a similar "pump" effect cannot be overlooked. Every time I take out grimgrin I put him back in lol. He fills a lot of holes for 5 mana. I wish he was not 5 mana though lol. He could have easily cost less and had weaker stats since he does nothing without support... Alas

Anyway I actually use the removal. Having a zombie that can target nuke things is valuable. I am open to trying out the ghoul though. Hard decision for me

It is a tough decision for sure. Switching from the more expensive to the cheaper does sacrifice some versatility. I feel like a deck as low to the ground as pokkens is probably going to move too quickly to bother with targeted removal once per turn, but there's metas out there where it comes in handy. I'm off Grim as an inclusion myself, but I could see it for others for sure.

As an aside I forgot to mention I finally got some meaningful gameplay in with Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver. I really like him. I think he fits quite well in an aristocrat style build and gives several avenues for advantage. The decayed tokens do kind of suck, but they are zombies. Being able to not lose tempo post board wipe and still swing with 7 zombies for a full hand Varina filter is great, and then if you have bleeders in play you get a no mess sac trigger for life swings too. Its a really compact and efficient advantage engine. I think he's generally going to be best with a sacrifice heavy deck but he's worth the inclusion in that area for sure.

[plaganegra]

Oh, I forgot to mention in my report, Shapesharer I believe is worth including in most people's lists. Being able to become anything on the field is fantastic. I copied a drain effect one turn with it before it died, but you could copy the best threat, do some combat tricks, double an effect you need to win, etc. It is so versatile and I think is one of the better 2 drops in my list. I don't like the strange art in my zombie deck but I am over it after playing with the card a few times now. It is a Zombie, after all...

[kirkusjones]

I had some game time myself last week, and it was a real grinder (not the app). Went up against Grismold, the Dreadsower, and while none of the rest of the decks mattered, this one was a tough match up when this deck had a slow start. Its just a constant on board threat that can really hammer you. Essentially he cropped on my win con as I spent a great degree of the game with Tombstone Stairwell rotting in my hand. I got things right down to the wire and I was happy with my sequencing (its so important for Varina), but the game did really reinforce some of my picks for stuff that I need to drop.

I never thought about Tombstone Stairwell in Grismold. Dropping that after a Toxic Deluge or Massacre Wurm would be bonkos. Dropping it with just a few critters in opponent's graveyards is a great play too…I'm going to have to pick one up. Thanks!

[ChocoDude]

Wow! Such a glowing review. Care to share your current decklist?

This is what I played with, except I had in Mikaeus and Grimgrin for Leyline and Haakon. Grimgrin was an important sac outlet in the game, so I might have to add him back in actually...

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander:

1 Varina, Lich Queen

Creatures:

1 Carrion Feeder

1 Champion of the Perished

1 Changeling Outcast

1 Cryptbreaker

1 Foulmire Knight // Profane Insight

1 Gravecrawler

1 Stitcher's Supplier

1 Weathered Wayfarer

1 Apprentice Necromancer

1 Binding Mummy

1 Corpse Knight

1 Lazotep Chancellor

1 Nightscape Familiar

1 Relentless Dead

1 Shapesharer

1 Shepherd of Rot

1 Snapcaster Mage

1 Tainted Adversary

1 Undead Augur

1 Wayward Servant

1 Death Baron

1 Diregraf Captain

1 Diregraf Colossus

1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge

1 Headless Rider

1 Master of Death

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Mirror Entity

1 Plague Belcher

1 Prized Amalgam

1 Silversmote Ghoul

1 Zombie Master

1 Corpse Augur

1 Repository Skaab

1 Tormod, the Desecrator

1 Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver

1 Wonder

1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Mana Rocks:

1 Chrome Mox

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mox Diamond

1 Sol Ring

1 Arcane Signet

1 Ashnod's Altar

1 Phyrexian Altar

Interaction:

1 Pact of Negation

1 Swan Song

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Anguished Unmaking

1 Winds of Abandon

1 Toxic Deluge

1 Devastating Mastery

Utility:

1 Entomb

1 Buried Alive

1 Intuition

1 Empty the Laboratory

1 Sevinne's Reclamation

1 Living Death

1 Patriarch's Bidding

1 Zombie Apocalypse

Enchantments:

1 Land Tax

1 Leyline of Anticipation

1 Necroduality

1 Tombstone Stairwell

1 Kindred Discovery

Lands (35):

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

1 Phyrexian Tower

1 Unholy Grotto

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Flooded Strand

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Polluted Delta

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Prismatic Vista

2 Island

2 Plains

4 Swamp

1 Godless Shrine

1 Watery Grave

1 Scrubland

1 Tundra

1 Underground Sea

1 Cavern of Souls

1 Command Tower

1 Mana Confluence

1 Crypt of Agadeem

1 Dimir Aqueduct

1 Morphic Pool

1 Vault of Champions

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt

Approximate Total Cost:

Looks like you've got 101 cards in there.

[plaganegra]

@ChocoDude trying to edit lists after making changes lol... diregraf captain comes out.

[toctheyounger]

I had some game time myself last week, and it was a real grinder (not the app). Went up against Grismold, the Dreadsower, and while none of the rest of the decks mattered, this one was a tough match up when this deck had a slow start. Its just a constant on board threat that can really hammer you. Essentially he cropped on my win con as I spent a great degree of the game with Tombstone Stairwell rotting in my hand. I got things right down to the wire and I was happy with my sequencing (its so important for Varina), but the game did really reinforce some of my picks for stuff that I need to drop.

I never thought about Tombstone Stairwell in Grismold. Dropping that after a Toxic Deluge or Massacre Wurm would be bonkos. Dropping it with just a few critters in opponent's graveyards is a great play too…I'm going to have to pick one up. Thanks!

It isn't cheap, fwiw, but the card is just stupid. It'd do great things in a Grismold deck I'd say.

[kirkusjones]

It isn't cheap, fwiw, but the card is just stupid. It'd do great things in a Grismold deck I'd say.

I've got a ton of store credit after letting my LGS go through my binders, plus the art is sweet AND old-bordered. I'm going to go pick one up today.

[yeti1069]

Just got to cast Overcharged Amalgam using Havengul Lich's ability to counter a 1-sided boardwipe targeting me after I Living Death'ed. Felt pretty damn good. to Disallow every turn.

[yeti1069]

Also, note to self: don't play Gary without a sac outlet when playing against Esix, Fractal Bloom. Was doing pretty well, targeted down one of last two opponents who had been hitting me with grave hate, removal, and counterspells all game, since Esix had been kind of slow, and easily removed his big board states a few times, but wasn't thinking about his ability to make a LOT of token copies at once. Had him down in the single digits, then died to him making 6 copies of my Gray Merchant.

[toctheyounger]

Also, note to self: don't play Gary without a sac outlet when playing against Esix, Fractal Bloom. Was doing pretty well, targeted down one of last two opponents who had been hitting me with grave hate, removal, and counterspells all game, since Esix had been kind of slow, and easily removed his big board states a few times, but wasn't thinking about his ability to make a LOT of token copies at once. Had him down in the single digits, then died to him making 6 copies of my Gray Merchant.

He is one of those creatures that ought not to stay in play without a way to control his trigger for other people. I had this happen with another deck the other day. I was playing Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded and another mono red deck played out a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. They were missing a piece from their combo, so when my turn came around I just took it with my Zealous Conscripts and that was that. I guess at the least you can't really be too bummed if you lose to your own stuff.

[yeti1069]

Yeah, I didn't mind too much because he'd had an opportunity to copy Terror of the Peaks 4 times earlier, and had missed the play, which would have killed me and one of the other players, so getting as far as I had was gravy.

[pzbw7z]

So, how badly do you guys hate Beseech the Queen in this deck? Six is the max CMC in my deck but I think I'd be tutoring for Tombstone Stairwell quite often.

How do you feel about tutors in general? Needed? How many? Not so much? Which ones do you like? Any of the cheap ($$$) ones?

[yeti1069]

So, how badly do you guys hate Beseech the Queen in this deck? Six is the max CMC in my deck but I think I'd be tutoring for Tombstone Stairwell quite often.

How do you feel about tutors in general? Needed? How many? Not so much? Which ones do you like? Any of the cheap ($$$) ones?

Is there a reason you aren't playing a better tutor?