Sefris of the Kind of Obvious Ways

[yeti1069]

I will hold judgement until I see it in action at least once. You are correct that I almost never cast a big creature spell when I can loot a couple times and get it into play for free. Even if I had the mana, I'm usually dumping it for dungeon triggers and casting smaller utility pieces. But I do use mana regularly, and having 3 of anything can be pretty good if I drop a mana rock and have a followup play. I would totally Tortured Existence back a Radiant Solar if I could have 3 of them! Some of my favorite cards are legendary though

Let me know how it works out. Maybe throw in a tutor or two to bring it up more often? Tutors would also play well with it.

I'm skeptical of it doing anything besides making copies of a mana rock or looter. That's not to say doing so wouldn't be beneficial, but just not enough value to warrant the slot, nor reanimating it/casting it over other options.

[PrimevalCommander]

Well my reanimation targets are not as immediately impactful as yours, so I would completely understand it's lack of inclusion in a more optimized list. I'm playing Buried Alive, Rune-Scarred Demon, and about 18 ways to loot through my deck. So I would expect to see it in the next game or two it gets played. Shouldn't take too many tries. I pull this out for low power games where I can grab this over maybe a Eternal Dragon, or Hoverguard Sweepers if I have a hand that could capitalize on the copy effect. If not, I leave it in the GY and get something else.

Things I would be happy to have extra copies: Shriekmaw, Mulldrifter, any Initiative creature, Thorough Investigation, Oversold Cemetery (not in yet), Cathar Commando, Priest of Fell Rites, Midnight Pathlighter, pretty much any little value piece is good in multiples and can come down off a double-spell turn pretty easily.

[yeti1069]

Well my reanimation targets are not as immediately impactful as yours, so I would completely understand it's lack of inclusion in a more optimized list. I'm playing Buried Alive, Rune-Scarred Demon, and about 18 ways to loot through my deck. So I would expect to see it in the next game or two it gets played. Shouldn't take too many tries. I pull this out for low power games where I can grab this over maybe a Eternal Dragon, or Hoverguard Sweepers if I have a hand that could capitalize on the copy effect. If not, I leave it in the GY and get something else.

Things I would be happy to have extra copies: Shriekmaw, Mulldrifter, any Initiative creature, Thorough Investigation, Oversold Cemetery (not in yet), Cathar Commando, Priest of Fell Rites, Midnight Pathlighter, pretty much any little value piece is good in multiples and can come down off a double-spell turn pretty easily.

That's true about the value pieces. Maybe I'm being too hard on the card, but at 6 mana, and itself not doing much without further mana/setup... Curious to hear your results.

How has Thorough Investigation been?

[PrimevalCommander]

How has Thorough Investigation been?

It's been... fine... Nothing to write home about. I just use it because I can get extra venture triggers on other players' turn by sacing the clue. I added Tivit, Seller of Secrets as an additional clue-maker. But as-is, 1 clue per turn cycle which cost to get the card is not impressive. Requires both Dungeon synergy and additional clue making to start to look like it's worth the mana. We are in the best draw colors, so you don't really play it for the draw. You play it for the theme because you can get a little extra venture at instant speed. Would be worlds better if I could get 1 clue per player attacked, like is common with some other attack triggers like this.

Bash fest complete: It will probably have a permanent spot as card advantage + extra venture triggers. An on-theme draw engine that doesn't completely suck See Dungeon Map as another example like this

I also had Immovable Rod in my list, but lost the card and haven't cared enough to buy another one.

[Petar_Enev]

Few new additions from the recent sets:

Likeness looter has been an amazing looter with graveyard copy ability. Not suitable for ETB but great for copying board state effects like Elesh Norn, Serra's Emissary, Toxrill, Doom Whisperer, Radiant Solar.

Cruel Somnophage // Can't Wake Up The sorcery part triggers Seffris and then you have a really cheap beater. Nothing spectacular but I like to have cheap efficient cards. Still testing it.

Boromir, Warden of the Tower is another board protection effect that randomly stops all kind of Cascade & Free spells. Yes, I know you think you need just 1-2 of these but my meta is very hostile against Sefris and I play 6 creatures with this effect. Very happy with them so far.

Breach the Multiverse A game-braking reanimation spell, always 4 for 1, and triggers Seffris. Very hard to be stopped in response since it chooses creatures, don't target them.

[yeti1069]

Few new additions from the recent sets:

Likeness looter has been an amazing looter with graveyard copy ability. Not suitable for ETB but great for copying board state effects like Elesh Norn, Serra's Emissary, Toxrill, Doom Whisperer, Radiant Solar.

Cruel Somnophage // Can't Wake Up The sorcery part triggers Seffris and then you have a really cheap beater. Nothing spectacular but I like to have cheap efficient cards. Still testing it.

Boromir, Warden of the Tower is another board protection effect that randomly stops all kind of Cascade & Free spells. Yes, I know you think you need just 1-2 of these but my meta is very hostile against Sefris and I play 6 creatures with this effect. Very happy with them so far.

Breach the Multiverse A game-braking reanimation spell, always 4 for 1, and triggers Seffris. Very hard to be stopped in response since it chooses creatures, don't target them.

I can't recall whether I got a copy of the new Looter and put it in the deck yet or not, but that's the intent. Copying a Serra's Emissary in the yard does nothing since you miss the opportunity to choose a card type.

Somnophage looks ok, but it has no evasion or useful abilities, so unless the board is clear for attacks, it can be chumped all day.

Boromir looks solid. I've been trying to get a copy of Jirina--every time I put it in my cart at my LGS and go to pick it up, they refund me for not having it--but Boromir is better in most ways, I think. Protecting your whole board, the passive stax effect, and even the tempt are useful.

Breach is very good. It's a consideration here. Right now, my copy is in Captain N'ghathrod.

[Petar_Enev]

You're right about Serra.

Somnophage also probably not worth it but you can treat it as 4 mana creature with ETB that triggers Seffris (most of the time).

Two new cards I'm goinng to test and seem good:

Roaming Throne - Useful Just like other clone effect that can make 2nd copy of Seffris. The big advantage here is Ward 2 which makes it much more hard to remove. Also the colorless mana cost is much more easy and it can trigger your other Human / Wizard abilities at the same time.

Palantir of Orthanc - scry 2 is not bad but what I really want I drawing the card after. I think it will be easy to pick up on low life players and threaten them with your big spells. Also may be I want to trigger Seffris? I think that after 3 counters this will be really hard to not give you a card. May be it's too slow.

[PrimevalCommander]

Palantir looks cool, but I don't think we need it in when we have the highest quality draw options in the game. I'd probably be looking to play it in decks without to help shore up the draw slots there. Alternatives will depend on the type of list you are building, but there are quite a few creatures that we can loop with the ability to draw cards at several different mana values. In my experience with the looter heavy build, having everything I need on a creature is more valuable as I can get more Sefris triggers by discarding them and reanimate at instant speed. I do so much looting, I'm thinking about Containment Construct as a very cheap way to get extra value out of my looters. Works on lands too.

Of course it is a solid draw option, and any opponent would be foolish to deny you the draw after the first rotation or two. So it should be quite reliable after that. But if an opponent denys even 1 draw, then it becomes a Phyrexian Arena that is easier to cast.

[Chromaticus]

A buddy of mine was walking me through his new The Ancient One deck- reanimator for really big drops. I started thinking about the card for this deck. Thoughts?

I was also thinking about the fetchable surveil suite for this deck. ETBT, but could get a Sefris trigger off a fetch.

[yeti1069]

A buddy of mine was walking me through his new The Ancient One deck- reanimator for really big drops. I started thinking about the card for this deck. Thoughts?

I was also thinking about the fetchable surveil suite for this deck. ETBT, but could get a Sefris trigger off a fetch.

I think spending 6 mana to loot once, and then mill isn't where I want to be, but I'm also trying not to do much milling here.

The surveil lands are 100% going in.

[yeti1069]

Definitely going to have to start forcing a conversation at the beginning of spelltable games on what everyone is looking at power-wise. I joined a game labeled "8ish," figuring that's gunning at high-power, and picked up Sefris, even though I felt like I'd be a bit on the low side for that.

Welp, I saw Ur-Dragon, angels, and some Warhammer commander that doubles X spells and abilities. Kept a 2-land hand (), a Sol Ring, Rona, Herald of Invasion // Rona, Tolarian Obliterator, Nezahal, and Syr Konrad, and something else, figuring Rona would help get me to black mana. Turns out I was ok, as I got an Arcane Signet on t3, which allowed me to cast Sefris, then looted with Rona to start the engine. From this point on, I was all systems go, so...we all know how this game went.

The only highlights I'll mention were the X-spell dude cast a Jaya's Immolating Inferno for x=9, copied twice, with the original being uncounterable. I sacrificed Glen Elendra to counter a copy, trigger Sefris, complete the dungeon, and then reanimate Glen Elendra (it had already been used once) to counter the other copy, so we all just took 9. If I had known how little anyone else would have done all game, I would have taken the 27 and seen it as a way to speed things up. The other notable moment was using the Phandelver trigger to give Balefire Dragon -4/-0 making it both easily blocked, and not a threat to anything on my board--this was also the sum total of interaction all game.

[PrimevalCommander]

I've found when Sefris is left on the table for several turn cycles, the engine really gets humming and can be difficult to disrupt. Even when looping generic big flyers with some value. Now, point a little disruption his way and you can slow me down long enough to get ahead. Funny thing is, only one person in my playgroup knows this, and I don't play Sefris in the higher powered games where removal is plentiful. So I usually get to have a good bit of fun even if I get hit with a couple board wipes. I usually hold back a looter to restart the engine when Sefris comes back down. I'm thinking about playing some other basic reanimation outside of Sefris for when my engine is offline, but so far I've done alright. I have a small selection of counterspells and protection pieces to help protect my board which helps greatly.

[yeti1069]

I've found when Sefris is left on the table for several turn cycles, the engine really gets humming and can be difficult to disrupt. Even when looping generic big flyers with some value. Now, point a little disruption his way and you can slow me down long enough to get ahead. Funny thing is, only one person in my playgroup knows this, and I don't play Sefris in the higher powered games where removal is plentiful. So I usually get to have a good bit of fun even if I get hit with a couple board wipes. I usually hold back a looter to restart the engine when Sefris comes back down. I'm thinking about playing some other basic reanimation outside of Sefris for when my engine is offline, but so far I've done alright. I have a small selection of counterspells and protection pieces to help protect my board which helps greatly.

Yeah, I've had the same experience.

Interestingly, I actually played against a Sefris deck last night.

I was running Osigr, and we were also facing an aggressive Boros deck and an aggressive Selesnya deck. Sefris started very slowly--I exiled their Tortured Existence early, and they did nothing else but cast Sefris and Lightning Greaves, then recast Sefris after a board wipe. I annoyed the table a little with some light stax and interaction, but the Selesnya deck wrathed the board to set me and the other aggro deck back. I got out Portal to Phyrexia a could turns later to set back the two aggro decks as they were building back up. Sefris finally got down a discard outlet and was starting to venture--I'm really not a fan of the cheap creatures that do nothing but pitch cards, since they do nothing for you without Sefris out, and then are card disadvantage with 0 real upside. This one discarded for a small (+0/+2?) buff. Anyway, Sefris rocketed ahead over two turns, bringing in Tivit, a copy of Sefris, and Avacyn, which got Greaves, and then I got hit for 14 damage (going to 4), because they (rightly) perceived me as their biggest threat. Sefris also had stocked their yard with an eldrazi, and Elesh Norn MoM, and some other big stuff. I told the table I could do a lot about Sefris' board. Boros aggro avoided killing me, Selesnya cast Scavenging Ooze and passed. I targeted the Angel of the Ruins...and Scooze exiled it in response. I asked why, and he said, "I could, and I'm not winning anyway, so why not?" So frustrating; he didn't even have any targets for the Angel. I was going to exile the Greaves and something Boros had maybe, then use Osgir to make 2 Duplicants to exile both the Sefris clone and Avacyn, and then blow up the board. Instead, I just scooped.

[yeti1069]

Played a game tonight that featured another Sefris deck. Considered changing to another deck, but I'd already shuffled up and had a hand. I'd asked everyone if they were playing interaction and they all said they were...just none of it came until it was kinda too late.

I will say the other deck had Hama Pashar, Tomb of Horrors Adventurer, and Ravenloft Adventurer, which all put in work. ToHA's most relevant triggers were making 2 Revenlofts, so I had to jump through some hoops to remove them before I started having my stuff exiled, and later he cast a Time Wipe I tried to counter, but he pointed out that he had 3 copies, and I was like...oh.

Hama is such a good value, I just feel like I'd rather have something that ventures or provides its own value, rather than enhancing the engine.

My Syr Konrad and Archfiend of Despair both got exiled, but they had some some real damage. Then the other Sefris got their own Archfiend after hitting me for 15, so I went to 12. Thankfully I could board wipe on my turn, then cast a Burning Rune Demon, getting Body Double and Karmic Guide. Body went to hand and on my next turn I swung in with the Demon, then played Body to copy the other Sefris' Archfiend in their yard, killing them with the EOT trigger.

[PrimevalCommander]

Hama Pashar, Ruin Seeker never "got there" for me. Whenever she was out, the extra scry, or treasure, or card didn't push me ahead or feel worth the slot. I have seen an online game that was turbo-ing through The Undercity and Hama was going better there. But when I'm typically doing Phandelver, the value is not in the room triggers, but in Sefris triggers. I like having more looters that help get extra dungeon triggers, rather than making each one twice as good. Advance Dungeon > Double Tap on each room for me.

If I was going 100% on Initiative for Undercity triggers, I would definitely find a spot for Hama since Undercity rooms are much better and the final payoff also much better.

Midnight Pathlighter on the other hand, which is also a 2/3 venture creature, but cost 1 more mana, has been AMAZING since it gets me very relevant evation and up to 3 extra venture triggers on my turn. One of my favorite venture enablers in my list. Barrowin of Clan Undurr wishes it could venture as hard as Pathlighter

[yeti1069]

Hama Pashar, Ruin Seeker never "got there" for me. Whenever she was out, the extra scry, or treasure, or card didn't push me ahead or feel worth the slot. I have seen an online game that was turbo-ing through The Undercity and Hama was going better there. But when I'm typically doing Phandelver, the value is not in the room triggers, but in Sefris triggers. I like having more looters that help get extra dungeon triggers, rather than making each one twice as good. Advance Dungeon > Double Tap on each room for me.

If I was going 100% on Initiative for Undercity triggers, I would definitely find a spot for Hama since Undercity rooms are much better and the final payoff also much better.

Midnight Pathlighter on the other hand, which is also a 2/3 venture creature, but cost 1 more mana, has been AMAZING since it gets me very relevant evation and up to 3 extra venture triggers on my turn. One of my favorite venture enablers in my list. Barrowin of Clan Undurr wishes it could venture as hard as Pathlighter

That was basically my feeling with Hama, although I found the doubled rooms to be valuable. Usually it was an additional treasure, another drain, and another drawn card, but giving something -8/-0 for a turn cycle, or two things -4/-0 was worthwhile. I still get those last occasionally if I can power through 5 rooms in a turn. Pathlighter is responsible for many of those instances. Ultimately, I agree with you re: Hama--I'd rather work on venturing more, rather than venturing slightly better. In this last game, I just could NOT get into The Undercity. It was introduced, I got the Initiative, and even got a couple of my 'take the initiative' dudes, but every time I tried, I ended up venturing normally with a clear dungeon first.

I wanted Barrowin to be worth running, but never felt like it did what I needed it to. Would have maybe been playable if it had ANY keyword to help with combat.

Oh, also of note from that last game, I very rarely had more than 1 creature in the yard at a time. Even though I was looting from turn 3 onward, I had other ways of getting creatures out of the yard, so I often had literally 1 choice for Sefris' trigger. I think I recurred Ertai Resurrected 5+ times that game.

[yeti1069]

So, with my 2-mana looter count going up, I'm cutting all my mana rocks except for Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, and Sarevok's Tome. Going to see how that goes. I feel like I'm rarely even casting mana rocks after turn 2, although they help get all 3 colors online by turn 3. I was already down to only 3 other rocks besides these, so I don't expect it to be a huge difference.

[yeti1069]

So far, the looters instead of mana rocks plan has been working out well.

Got turn 2 Malcolm, which never got stopped, and at 4 counters discarded and reanimated Sheoldred, Whispering One.

I almost feel like I should drop the counter spells from this deck. I feel like I'm leery to use them when opponents have been fighting an uphill battle to slow or stop me at all, finally find some sort of answer...and I say "nope."

[PrimevalCommander]

Malcolm, Alluring Scoundrel

Looks like a good fit here. Similar to Looter il-Kor ,but with a better trigger. I could probably use Malcolm, but I like my looters to activate on opponents' turns so I get more venture triggers. Not that you are not running plenty of those too.

I finally pulled out my Oversold Cemetery and put it in for Faithful Mending, since the one-shot loot wasn't as impactful, even with flashback. With my land cyclers, looters, evoke, and others, this should be active by the midgame. Though I have had the problem of not finding any of those and looping the only creature in my GY 2 or 3 times. Last time it was Jirina, Dauntless General coming back from Sefris' trigger because it could keep my stuff alive.

Dogged Detective has now jumped back up on my buy list since Master of Death did amazing last time I saw it with all the looters.

[yeti1069]

I prefer the instant speed looters too, but figured the possibility of casting something for free was worth trying out. In this game at least it was fantastic. I actually used Tortured Existence to return Sheoldred from my graveyard to hand in response to Malcolm's trigger.

I've added Jirina but haven't seen her yet.

Oversold could be decent, though I've been in the same spot as you just looping one creature.

The Detective (who isn't a detective) looks pretty lackluster to me. Depends on opponents' actions.

[PrimevalCommander]

Made a couple changes to my decklist.

IN Oversold Cemetery >> OUT Faithful Mending. Mending not netting any cards didn't do much when I have several repeatable looters.
IN Seasoned Dungeoneer >> OUT Tomb of Horrors Adventurer. Never saw it in action, but I'm a little heavy on the 6+ creatures and Dungeoneer gets a lot of praise here. Main problem is Dungeoneer cannot pick a price point. At $4.00 its a bit of a strain on my budget cap, but I have a little room left. I like having several 4-drops that trigger Initiative so I can get Sefris set up and get into the Undercity with a looter ready to start venturing.

Went back and looked at my list on page 4 and saw Barrowin of Clan Undurr still in, but Mindleech Mass not in, so I had even more beef in the list.

Gosh, why is Thorough Investigation almost $3 now? My budget list gained about $8 in inflation over the past quarter

[yeti1069]

Made a couple changes to my decklist.

IN Oversold Cemetery >> OUT Faithful Mending. Mending not netting any cards didn't do much when I have several repeatable looters.
IN Seasoned Dungeoneer >> OUT Tomb of Horrors Adventurer. Never saw it in action, but I'm a little heavy on the 6+ creatures and Dungeoneer gets a lot of praise here. Main problem is Dungeoneer cannot pick a price point. At $4.00 its a bit of a strain on my budget cap, but I have a little room left. I like having several 4-drops that trigger Initiative so I can get Sefris set up and get into the Undercity with a looter ready to start venturing.

Went back and looked at my list on page 4 and saw Barrowin of Clan Undurr still in, but Mindleech Mass not in, so I had even more beef in the list.

Gosh, why is Thorough Investigation almost $3 now? My budget list gained about $8 in inflation over the past quarter

Let me know how Oversold goes. I feel like it's going to be too slow/not impactful enough, but I could be wrong on that. I suppose it's kind of like a Master of Death that requires a little set-up. Just not sure how often that set-up cost will be an issue.

I think you'll like Seasoned Dungeoneer. I especially like that it makes it much easier to reclaim the initiative, gives a psuedo-surveil/psuedo-draw (explore trigger) and provides another way of getting damage through--you can even get a commander damage kill if you're dropping counters on Sefris.

How has Mindleech Mass been? I've been debating picking it up for my Captain N'ghathrod deck, but 8 mana is a lot, and 6/6 trample isn't an inspiring stat line for that cost, even if the effect is cool.

[PrimevalCommander]

How has Mindleech Mass been? I've been debating picking it up for my Captain N'ghathrod deck, but 8 mana is a lot, and 6/6 trample isn't an inspiring stat line for that cost, even if the effect is cool.

I put Mass in because I had one from the battlecruiser days, but I don't think I have gotten to hit anyone with it to trigger it in several outings. So I would temper expectations on the Mass. I don't find myself actively looking to tutor it or reanimate it when I have my other "value beaters" available. People get more scared about Mass than they do Zetalpa, Primal Dawn since your not stealing cards from their hand. They don't seem to like that, can't say I blame them

It would be on-theme for Nghathrod, but if I was expecting to pay the full mana cost, I wouldn't .

[yeti1069]

How has Mindleech Mass been? I've been debating picking it up for my Captain N'ghathrod deck, but 8 mana is a lot, and 6/6 trample isn't an inspiring stat line for that cost, even if the effect is cool.

I put Mass in because I had one from the battlecruiser days, but I don't think I have gotten to hit anyone with it to trigger it in several outings. So I would temper expectations on the Mass. I don't find myself actively looking to tutor it or reanimate it when I have my other "value beaters" available. People get more scared about Mass than they do Zetalpa, Primal Dawn since your not stealing cards from their hand. They don't seem to like that, can't say I blame them

It would be on-theme for Nghathrod, but if I was expecting to pay the full mana cost, I wouldn't .

Thanks for the input.

Yeah, Cap'n isn't getting discounts on anything unless I toss in something like Urza's Incubator, but I think I'm on fewer than 20 horrors at this point, so that doesn't seem like a great fit, and I'm pretty evenly split on and so the Medallions aren't going in, either. As for people not liking it, well, no one likes anything Cap is doing (mill, stealing cards, etc...), so that's par for the course. Mindleech is both on- and off-theme in that the deck is aimed at using everyone else's resources a bit, but does so from the yard, not their hands. On the whole, I feel like the curve for the deck is already too high; I'll likely skip the Mass then.

[Mutinee]

Made a couple changes to my decklist.

IN Oversold Cemetery

I use Phyrexian Reclamation, but I'm wondering if the Oversold Cemetery might be a better choice.

I've recently started playing Sefris, have loved it so far. Would appreciate any feedback anyone has on my list. My current deck.

Edited to add: My playgroup doesn't really do infinites, so I've left out all the common ones like Abdel, Acerak, Reveilark, etc.