Zedruu the Greatest of All Time

[tstorm823]

Also, I've been wanting to try Scheming Fence as a low-cost mirror of fate combo piece/interaction. Maybe this is a good place to try it out.

Oh, that is clever. I'll be thinking about that one for a bit, cause that's hits all the right notes: possible interaction, possible mana dork, possible combo piece. There's gotta be something cooking there.

Edit: Just thought of Pendant of Prosperity as a pretty slick synergy with Scheming Fence, for anyone who might be playing that card.

[Burningnomad]

Random question for you tstorm or anyone else. What other commanders if any do you play that you attach the same mentality to? I've been wanting to try to build my own list and was just curious what else you play that goes with the same playstyle.

[tstorm823]

Random question for you tstorm or anyone else. What other commanders if any do you play that you attach the same mentality to? I've been wanting to try to build my own list and was just curious what else you play that goes with the same playstyle.

All my other decks end up with a distinct ethos. I've tried to build a jund deck of similar playstyle a couple times, but it always ends up a totally different experience, the current version being mostly shaman tribal.

Part of building this deck the way it is has been shoving too much into one pile that it loses any focused identity like tribal or storm or burn, even if its had elements of these things at times. I kinda just shove all the things I want to play into this one pile, and that doesn't leave a lot left for a second pile of the same type, and my other decks inevitably end up focusing in on a specific play pattern instead.

[Burningnomad]

So are all your other decks more conventional compared to zedruu? I'm mainly asking because looking at your deck and making my own version and stuff was/is a super fun time deck building. Is there any mentality or generalized goal you keep to keep other decks also fresh? Also besides zedruu who are your top 2 or 3 commanders out of pure curiosity.

[tstorm823]

I'm not sure I'd say more conventional, just more thematically focused. They can all be pretty well described with a couple general themes, unlike Zedruu's hug-combo-tempo-chaos-clone-storm-doomsday fiesta.

My second longest standing deck is Olivia, Mobilized for War, where Olivia is a discard outlet to bin fatties so that I can reanimate them for cheap, and then she gives them haste, and then I slam in with something silly like Hellcarver Demon. It's really fun for when you want to be the attacker early. It's an aggro reanimator deck.

Third in line is Mathas, Fiend Seeker, which gives people creatures with things like Forbidden Orchard, punishes them for having creatures with things like Rakdos Charm, and otherwise plays a bunch pillowforts and removal. It's a midrangey, highly political deck.

Fourth is a 5-color deck that's had a rotating cast of generals. It's currently Jodah, the Unifier. The only cards in the deck are legendary creatures and lands, some of which are the banding lands like Adventurers' Guildhouse. It's a legend-only battlecruiser deck.

Fifth is the current incarnation of my jund deck, lead by Yurlok of Scorch Thrash. It's got a variety of subthemes since I wanted to build it like parallel Zedruu: there's mana doubling, Earthquake effects, graveyard to hand recursion, shaman tribal, and some funny interactions with Vigor and Hostility . But when it actually comes down to playing, it's pretty much just a ramp deck with burn as the top end.

Last deck I have built, only ever played a few times so far, is Shorikai, Genesis Engine, with a couple Kamigawa subthemes. It's mostly creatureless, playing lots of instants, with all the reasonably useful arcane spells I could fit. Then Shorikai makes tokens, which I can Polymorph (or splice Reweave) into the few big creatures I am playing, about half of which are spirits (considering going all spirit for fun), and one of which is The Unspeakable. And then the rest of the deck is board wipes and counterspells. It's like spirit and arcane control.

All I do to keep things fresh between decks is just try not to overlap strategies too much. I've had as many as 12 decks assembled at a time back when basically every set inspired me to build something new, but I'm pretty happy with my 6 different styles, where I can adjust to what the table is lacking pretty well (when I'm not just playing Zedruu).

[Flem1000]

That Shorikai deck sounds really interesting, mind sharing a decklist if you have one?

[tstorm823]

That Shorikai deck sounds really interesting, mind sharing a decklist if you have one?

I do not have one written out anywhere, but neither do I have meaningful time spent playing it to tell you if it's actually good or fun in the long run.

[Flem1000]

That's fair. I was mostly just curious since I have speculated on making a deck with Kamigawa mechanics and themes in the past

[Mesn20]

Stumbled upon this primer whilst looking for inspirstion to create a deck centered around trickery, redirection and control! Reading through this primer I've talked myself into trying out this new playstyle after a year playing magic only with an upgraded horrors precon....a lot to learn.

Had to sign up to ask, have you considered Mystic Reflection as a second to Mirrorweave. Its the card that pushed me to look for something new, and thought it would be a good fit in your list...

[ihatemaryfisher]

Stumbled upon this primer whilst looking for inspirstion to create a deck centered around trickery, redirection and control! Reading through this primer I've talked myself into trying out this new playstyle after a year playing magic only with an upgraded horrors precon....a lot to learn.

Had to sign up to ask, have you considered Mystic Reflection as a second to Mirrorweave. Its the card that pushed me to look for something new, and thought it would be a good fit in your list...

I've been working on a card package involving Eater of Days, Mystic Reflection and/or Infinite Reflection, and something like Alliance of Arms in order to skip your opponents' turns.

Everyone's seen a combo to take infinite extra turns. But I have yet to see a combo that skips an infinite number of your opponents' turns.

[ihatemaryfisher]

So are all your other decks more conventional compared to zedruu? I'm mainly asking because looking at your deck and making my own version and stuff was/is a super fun time deck building. Is there any mentality or generalized goal you keep to keep other decks also fresh? Also besides zedruu who are your top 2 or 3 commanders out of pure curiosity.

I also created a Zedruu-style jund deck, following tstorm's advice, using Lord Windgrace as commander. It involved synergies with wheels, land animation, burn, and discard. It had combos like:
Volcano Hellion + Brash Taunter + Tainted Strike;
Volcano Hellion + Whip of Erebos + Toralf, God of Fury // Toralf's Hammer;
Toralf, God of Fury // Toralf's Hammer + Tainted Strike + Blasphemous Act;
Playing Breath of Fury on a land after playing Natural Affinity;
Hostility + Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro + burn spells;
Generous Patron + Archfiend of Ifnir + Skirge Familiar

It was fun, but felt too clumsy with not enough instant-speed interaction. Now I'm working on a changeling deck with combos like Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, Artificial Evolution, and Notorious Throng.

[tstorm823]

Had to sign up to ask, have you considered Mystic Reflection as a second to Mirrorweave. Its the card that pushed me to look for something new, and thought it would be a good fit in your list...

I thought about it only briefly when it released, and other than intriguing interactions with Precursor Golem, never actually really brainstormed what I would do with it. It's definitely interesting, and perhaps Lore Drakkis is another reason to do so.

[Sefir]

Had to sign up to ask, have you considered Mystic Reflection as a second to Mirrorweave. Its the card that pushed me to look for something new, and thought it would be a good fit in your list...

I thought about it only briefly when it released, and other than intriguing interactions with Precursor Golem, never actually really brainstormed what I would do with it. It's definitely interesting, and perhaps Lore Drakkis is another reason to do so.

If someone wants a second Mirrorweave, Sakashima's Will would have been the card to choose imho.

Everyone's seen a combo to take infinite extra turns. But I have yet to see a combo that skips an infinite number of your opponents' turns.

Wormfang Manta is one of my favorite creatures in my version of Zedruu and I use it in many combos. The interaction with Infinite Reflection has also been mentioned.

[Sefir]

So are all your other decks more conventional compared to zedruu? I'm mainly asking because looking at your deck and making my own version and stuff was/is a super fun time deck building. Is there any mentality or generalized goal you keep to keep other decks also fresh? Also besides zedruu who are your top 2 or 3 commanders out of pure curiosity.

I personally try to make my decks as less conventional as possible.
I used to run a Phelddagrif 4-card combos with many different combos and flavor (like running and using in combos both Words of Wilding, Words of Wind and Words of Worship), but it ended up just having about a bunch of different variations of combos with either Crystalline Crawler, Intruder Alarm or Naru Meha, so I recently just remade it into a no-combo Hippo factory lifegain and I am very happy with it (there were a few other fun combos in it, f.e. Kiora's Follower+Maze of Ith+Darksteel Garrison+Vanish into Memory to draw my deck). I also had a Jund deck also on Zedruu's spirit (tried many different commanders on the helm, from Lord Windgrace to Soul of Windgrace to Adun Oakenshield), but I took it down in the end. The deck wanted to just discard lands and play Life from the Loam again and that was VERY time consuming for the table. This was NOT fun. (Some great combos in that deck though, like Shenanigans+Bone Miser+Skirge Familiar+Creeping Renaissance or. False Cure+Decaying Soil+Skyshroud Cutter+Ashnod's Altar).

The 11 decks I currently own are (from oldest to newest):
1. Zedruu 4-cards Puzzlebox, which is my own version of the deck based on tstorm's one ofc. It is my favorite deck and I dont see anything taking it off the top.
2. Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Egglands, a deck that wants to massively sacrifice all its lands and then massively recur them for value. I recently took out all landfall effects from it to make it spicier. It was inspired from the "Zedruu Lands" version that was briefly talked about in this thread as well. Even without landfall effects, it has some combos, due to Mystic Sanctuary loops.
3. Phelddagrif Hippo factory lifegain, a deck that wants to gift as many hippos as possible to gain value from it (no combos!) from Soul Warden effects, lifegain triggers, things like Sunstrike Legionnaire, manipulating the amount on creatures on the battlefield for things lik Oath of Druids or Defense of the Heart, etc. My 4th favorite deck right now.
4. Blex, Vexing Pest // Search for Blex Dredge. I only use the backside to fill my hand and gy. The deck's whole strategy is Step 1: Put all the library in the gy. Step 2. Cast a Praetor's Counsel/Harness Infinity. Step 3. Cast a Skirge Familiar/Cadaverous Bloom and use the billion mana to win somehow (Tortured Existence+Syr Konrad, the Grim is my prefered method)
5. Lord of Tresserhorn Zomblins. Zombies and Goblins. And ways to combine both races. There are combos like Skirk Prospector+ Liliana, Untouched by Death+Arcane Adaptation+whatever etb/ltb effect.
6. Dakkon Blackblade control. Basically a deck that has the most cards I feel nostalgia with from my earliest magic years (around the Merquadian Masques era). It haas cards like Spectral Lynx, Blinding Angel, etc.
7. Gluntch, the Bestower controlled Hug. Based on the concept of "every nonland card should give something to my opponents". My second favorite deck after Zedruu. Can be very political if I want to. Extremely fun, everyone loves it. Everyone questions why I give to their creatures all counters from Forgotten Ancient and then hit their heads realizing I have a Generous Patron in play. Eureka might be my favorite card of all time. Favorite moment, when an opponent played an Angel's Grace, but could not stop the draw from Divine Intervention.
8. Minsc, Beloved Ranger Aristocrats. A casual version of the cEDH Minsc deck, without the combos and the Protean Hulk. Still, many different lines and very fun in general.
9. Sliver Queen Enchantress. The deck has 0 "draw a card when you play an enchantment" effects, because I hate them. It also has 0 slivers apart from Queen herself and 0 infinite combos. But it has a bunch of weird enchantments that can result in very funny scenarios. Including Nefarious Lich+Transcendence+lose life effects like Unspeakable Symbol. My third favorite deck behind Zedruu and Gluntch

I also own a Hans Eriksson beatdown and a Cosima, God of the Voyage // The Omenkeel vehicles, but nowdays I consider these decks more my wife's than my own.

In general, I found out that 12 decks is the max I can have. After that, I end up not playing decks that I really want to play with. If I get to not play a deck for a long time, for me it is a sign that I do not enjoy it that much any more and it is time for it to change. This is why I try not to play strategies with a single focus that push a mechanic to the Xth degree, but rather having many different pieces that interact with each other, creating a different playing experience each time. For me this is the way to always have fun with my decks and rarely get bored with them. Ofc all decks need to have distinct strategies from one another. Also creativity matters a lot.

[jjjrrrgggnnn]

I'll chime in on this conversation.

Over the years I've been playing Commander I've slowly been able to pinpoint what styles of play I enjoy and don't enjoy. This Zedruu list was my first commander deck, and I was very lucky to stumble upon the original thread and start my commander journey with Zedruu. I've more-or-less stuck to canon card choices from this thread, preferring to do my intensive personal brewing on my other decks.

One of the things that I really really love about this list is the toolbox nature of the deck, with a little imagination there's a solution to nearly every problem your opponents present hidden somewhere in the deck. Zedruu doesn't promote linear play patterns, and it never feels all-in on the combos, each game feels different which is a fun experience for both myself and the rest of my pod.

I've recently (and with much reluctance) removed the extra turns, instant and sorcery spell copying effects, most of the chaos cards, as well as Mirror of Fate, as I find them all a little difficult for my head to get around in the heat of a game. I'm thoroughly impressed with all these cards, but for me personally, I feel like I squander their power, so I'm taking a break from them. Instead, I'm added in Hunted Phantasm and Dowsing Dagger and going to look for other interesting ways to benefit from stocking my opponents with creature tokens.

I have three other decks, all of which are in some state of flux right now, I became a dad ( ) just over a week ago, and my time to think about Magic has fallen through the floor.

Vadrok, Apex of Thunder Just like Sefir, I took inspiration from the "Zedruu Lands" list for times gone by. This ended up being my most consistent and powerful deck. Still, I realised it was winning in an extremely linear way, assembling a variation of Zuran Orb + Second Sunrise + Vadrok, Apex of Thunder + Valakut Exploration / Hedron Crab. I recently added more combat-focused cards and a Wizard package to lean it away from being a combo-focused deck, but I think I need to be braver and trim down more of the original combo pieces to push it more into this 'toolbox' style that I'm really enjoying right now.

Queen Kayla bin-Kroog a 1-cmc, 2-cmc, and 3-cmc tribal deck with a discard and lifegain subtheme. I built this deck to be a more 'traditional' list. Recently I've fallen out of love with it, as it mainly revolves around trying to activate Kayla as many times as possible and poop as much value onto the board as possible and pray that I have protection in hand at the right time (the deck struggles keeping cards in hand as you're always discarding - Sefir recommended me Gustha's Scepter - hopefully that's a step in the right direction). I'm half considering rebuilding this list as a Zirda, the Dawnwaker

Ardenn, Intrepid Archaeologist & Tana, the Bloodsower - this list used to be a Sekki, Season's Guide but I felt too constricted playing mono-g. This is my current darling, it revolves around the combat step trickery which is a new one for me. Like Zedruu, it doesn't revolve around the command zone either and has a toolbox feeling, and doesn't lean into any specific archetype too hard.

[jjjrrrgggnnn]

I just read an article and it pointed out a cute synergy between Cadric, Soul Kindler and Flagstones of Trokair. As Flagstones comes into play untapped it can pay for its own Cadric trigger, and then the copy gets sacrificed at the end of the turn so you can ramp out Raugrin Triome (or any other Plains).

[tstorm823]

I just read an article and it pointed out a cute synergy between Cadric, Soul Kindler and Flagstones of Trokair. As Flagstones comes into play untapped it can pay for its own Cadric trigger, and then the copy gets sacrificed at the end of the turn so you can ramp out Raugrin Triome (or any other Plains).

I was going to comment on not being worth the expense, but I did not realize the price of that had dropped that far.

[Sefir]

Didn't realize it at first, but Hithlain Rope, apart from the obvious ramp and Zedruu passive draw, can also be used as a winning condition to draw your deck with infinite Turnabouts. Fits in the deck like a glove.

EDIT:

Also, I've been wanting to try Scheming Fence as a low-cost mirror of fate combo piece/interaction. Maybe this is a good place to try it out.

Oh, that is clever. I'll be thinking about that one for a bit, cause that's hits all the right notes: possible interaction, possible mana dork, possible combo piece. There's gotta be something cooking there.

Apart from the obvious Mirror of Fate "Doomsday" combos, Scheming Fence+ Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun+MOM+something that doubles your draw triggers = loot your deck is what came to my mind.

[tstorm823]

Didn't realize it at first, but Hithlain Rope, apart from the obvious ramp and Zedruu passive draw, can also be used as a winning condition to draw your deck with infinite Turnabouts. Fits in the deck like a glove.

I can certainly imagine copying it with Saheeli, Sublime Artificer, activating the copy, and then watching it turn back into a Pentad Prism that self-donated. That being said, I'm still feeling extraordinarily pleased with my latest creation, and it'll be a bit til I get back into the experimental phase.

[ihatemaryfisher]

Ardenn, Intrepid Archaeologist & Tana, the Bloodsower - this list used to be a Sekki, Season's Guide but I felt too constricted playing mono-g. This is my current darling, it revolves around the combat step trickery which is a new one for me. Like Zedruu, it doesn't revolve around the command zone either and has a toolbox feeling, and doesn't lean into any specific archetype too hard.

Do you have a list for this? It sounds both similar and different from Zedruu and toolboxy in the best way.

[jjjrrrgggnnn]

Do you have a list for this? It sounds both similar and different from Zedruu and toolboxy in the best way.

Yes I do! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/qLTf7jEaWUifUJwolo2vxg It's a work in progress, but I'm getting close to something moderately stable.

Just trying to get my head around tweaking some of the equipment slots, to cards that have added utility equipping them to my opponents creatures as well as my own. And squeezing in a Komainu battle armor somehow.

Warning I run a sticker card.

[ihatemaryfisher]

Virtue of Knowledge was just spoiled, and a very cheap way to pull off a 2x Mirror of Fate combo. Beside that, it behaves similarly to Strionic Resonator, but also copies activated abilities:

e.g., flipping Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun (can it copy the land's mana ability?) or copying Magosi, the Waterveil's second activated ability

Edit: people are always suspicious when I play Strionic Resonator, thinking it's going to be an immediate combo. This being an instant gives it hidden potential

[tstorm823]

Virtue of Knowledge was just spoiled, and a very cheap way to pull off a 2x Mirror of Fate combo. Beside that, it behaves similarly to Strionic Resonator, but also copies activated abilities:

e.g., flipping Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun (can it copy the land's mana ability?) or copying Magosi, the Waterveil's second activated ability

Edit: people are always suspicious when I play Strionic Resonator, thinking it's going to be an immediate combo. This being an instant gives it potential beyond Strionic Resonator (or Lithoform Engine)

It being an instant makes it go infinite with Eye of the Storm pretty easily. I don't know yet if that is a good or a bad thing, as I think it's pretty much locked at a 4 card combo: Eye + Virtue + and instant or sorcery to get Eye's trigger on the stack + a spout that cares about triggering Eye and casting Virtue a million times.

It is kinda fun that the other side being a Panharmonicon is not the exciting part for us.

A second fringe interaction: adventures self-exile, so anytime after casting Vantress Visions, Mirror of Fate can pull it back. Conversely, we could cast the enchantment and then bounce that back to hand.

To answer the parenthetical question: no, it cannot copy mana abilities, they don't use the stack.

The other noteworthy card coming so far is Agatha's Soul Cauldron. I know lots of people are into that one and making it a combo card already, but it's abilities are color fix zedruu's donate, wacky combo nonsense, and targetted graveyard hate that can also double-up Mirror of Fate, in that order. Also, going back to previously played cards, putting Brash Taunter's activated ability on Swans of Bryn Argoll sounds pretty slick.

[ihatemaryfisher]

It being an instant makes it go infinite with Eye of the Storm pretty easily. I don't know yet if that is a good or a bad thing, as I think it's pretty much locked at a 4 card combo: Eye + Virtue + and instant or sorcery to get Eye's trigger on the stack + a spout that cares about triggering Eye and casting Virtue a million times.

I believe cards with adventure only have the characteristics of the adventure when on the stack. In exile, Virtue of Knowledge is not an instant card, and does not get copied with Eye of the Storm.

[tstorm823]

I believe cards with adventure only have the characteristics of the adventure when on the stack. In exile, Virtue of Knowledge is not an instant card, and does not get copied with Eye of the Storm.

You are correct, I was wrong.