Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger Tokens

[tstorm823]

Closest you'll probably get is Walking Ballista and running Cathars' Crusade, Breach loop to put counters on it and deal damage that way.

If you're on etb's, Pandemonium or Warstorm Surge gets the job done. What's nice about Kyren Negotiations is that you also benefit from what you have on board already and multiplies if you have mass untappers.

[MeowZeDung]

Negotiations is also useful just as another outlet for your chump blockers to deliver value right before they get squished if you don't need the spirit mana or your chumping with other tokens. Also salvages a bit in response to an opposing wrath.

[MeowZeDung]

Well... after a bunch of hemming and hawing about it while I was at work today, I've decided I'm going to tack on a couple more changes onto the most recent batch, which hasn't even physically taken place yet since I'm waiting on a few cards to ship.

Additional changes

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

OUT (3)

1 Mission Briefing

1 Vandalblast

1 Buried Ruin

IN (3)

1 Narset's Reversal

1 Turnabout

1 Needle Spires

Approximate Total Cost:

[mention]tstorm823[/mention] really got me thinking about the combo of Bonus Round into Turnabout into Narset's Reversal today. With these three cards and 9 mana (7 if Kykar is on the board, and as low as 4 if I have the spirits to spare) I can generate a loop that will create infinite mana, infinite storm, and, if Kykar or another token engine is in play, infinite etb triggers. I have been pretty outspoken about my desire to make this deck powerful, but not "un-fun to play against except in a competitive setting", and too many combos or too powerful of combos will make it cross the line. However, both this and the breach/inquiry loop seem to me to be very "fair" combos.

First, I need the requisite mana, and 9 mana is a lot. Second, I have to stick Bonus Round before I do anything else, which opens me up big time to opposing interaction that will certainly make an appearance once I start looping if any such interaction is available or I haven't REALLY slammed the door with Silence first. Third, it's a three card combo that I'm not tutoring for since I don't run Mystical Tutor or anything similar, and Gamble is hardly reliable if you are trying to get three specific cards in hand.

MOST importantly, however, is that all three cards are fantastic in the deck on their own and don't NEED to cross paths to be worth casting.

Mission Briefing → Narset's Reversal - Both pitching cards to the yard and playing cards out of the yard have become the task of Underworld Breach, Past in Flames, and their support cards pretty exclusively at this point. Briefing is still good value, but I think Reversal will be more. [mention]toctheyounger[/mention] summed it up nicely, so I'll just quote:

It's great for copying things you want from other people, upping your storm count, doubling down on High Tide and stealing ramp from green players

...and that's IN ADDITION to the combo it enables. Double blue is not always easy in the deck since I usually want to keep going with more spells and U/W mana is limited, but since I'm replacing one UU spell with another, I'm not further straining my manabase.

Vandalblast → Turnabout - Vandalblast is never really "bad", but I don't regularly face any big, scary artifact decks in my meta, so the ceiling is usually blowing up someone's T1 sol ring or wiping 4-5 rocks from the table if I'm lucky. For specific artifacts that I need to remove I have some better options that Sunforger can grab. Once more I'll quote someone, [mention]tstorm823[/mention] this time, for a summary of why Turnabout is a great inclusion:

[it] situationally impersonates Twiddle, Fog, Seething Song, High Tide, Unwinding Clock, Sleep, or Masako the Humorless depending on your needs. It's still 2 blue and can't be Sunforgered, but it's 2 blue that replaces itself.

...again, all goodstuff that's IN ADDITION to the combo. The only downside I see here is that I'm adding a UU spell to the deck, so I'll have to see how that goes, but as tstorm says, it does replace itself some of the time.

Buried Ruin → Needle Spires - I think I've cracked Ruin once since I've been playing Kykar. It is in the list to buy back Skullclamp and Eldrazi Monument, the latter of which is no longer in the deck (for now at least). If I was popping it off left and right the colorless source would be justifiable, but since I'm not I may as well get colored mana and some utility out of the slot.

I feel really good about the Celestial Colonnade inclusion, and with the new loop that includes Turnabout to untap lands before moving to combat plus Jeskai Ascendancy, Cathars' Crusade, and Valor in Akros, another manland with double strike could be a massive beating by itself. On top of that, the manlands typically survive wraths, so it is conceivable that I get to do this with a relatively clean board and get past the problem of not having evasion. I also haven't ruled out running Rogue's Passage someday, so there's that. . .

Creating this thread was one of the best EDH related things I've done. Seriously, thank you all for the discussion, advice, and card recommendations.

[Nimbaway]

Buried Ruin → Needle Spires - I think I've cracked Ruin once since I've been playing Kykar. It is in the list to buy back Skullclamp and Eldrazi Monument, the latter of which is no longer in the deck (for now at least). If I was popping it off left and right the colorless source would be justifiable, but since I'm not I may as well get colored mana and some utility out of the slot.

The main target for Buried Ruin would probably be to get back Sunforger, though can see why it potentially gets cut. With the new loop we're already chucking a lot of cards in the bin, so while getting something back sounds good by that point it's unlikely that we need them anymore.

The discussion certainly has me considering adding Bonus Round to my list as well, with Mission Briefing being the card taken out. I'm personally not going to add Turnabout to the deck yet. I try to avoid infinite loops when I can, but should the deck require a bit more power I can add it in later. Right now, I'm looking to use Bonus Round / Narset's Reversal with Frantic Search, since I'm already running that for using with Breach. It's limited to the amount of cards in my library, but builds storm and tokens so might be enough to get there.

[MeowZeDung]

Just a quick note to my future self here so I don't forget: Faces of the Past is a magic card. I think a Kykar deck built around the Opposition, Kyren Negotiations, Intruder Alarm, Jeskai Ascendancy enchantment package would love the additional treat.

[MeowZeDung]

I've played the deck 3 times since the THB changes, and frankly they were rough games that I mis-played, though I did manage to win one. No full game reports this time, just some general thoughts:

- I've only seen one out of the two combos, and that only once, which I consider a good thing since I don't want this to become a dedicated combo build. When it did happen, it won me the game:
Underworld breach + burning inquiry +kykar until I discarded impact tremors and the locust god, escaped them both, and machine gunned the table when I continued the loop.

- Cards I added to support the combos have been valuable in isolation, which is great news. Inquiry gave me an emergency dig for land once, and a storm 3 brain freeze set me up for a powerful past in flames the following turn. Breach + frantic search 3-4 times to sculpt my hand was great. I was most worried that idyllic tutor would feel like an obligatory "go get breach", but I found myself using it early in a game last night to fetch anointed procession, which was the mvp for me in a game I narrowly lost.

- Sunforger. I'll never stop singing this thing's praises. Expensive to use, but worth it, especially since it creates more spirits which help pay. Silence. Mandate of peace. Absorb. Boros charm. Honor the fallen. Chaos Warp. Swords to Plowshares. Path to Exile. It does it all, and often protects itself.

- 3 player game. Render silent opponent A's first spell. Cast silence on opponent B's upkeep. That was fun. 10/10 would recommend.

- Speaking of mandate of peace, it has been a home run in something like 6 of the 8 or 9 games I've played since adding it. Great card.

- Hour of reckoning is stupid good. Free to cast mostly-one-sided board wipe. Mmmmm.... tasty.

- Mirrorweave is a card I'm learning to be patient with. The blowout potential is utterly ridiculous and not hard to set up, so it's best to sit on it until just the right moment. The painful lesson occurred when I weaved an opponent's world shaper speculatively hoping to mill some lands on attack and put them in play after combat damage, and I got... one. Unfortunately nothing else spicy went to the yard either.

- I feel the deck could use more lifegain, and 2 life is all that kept me from winning a game last night. There are several options available, but I'm not sure if any are worth it: Sephara, sky's blade, jeskai charm, blind obedience, authority of the consuls. The charm goes with sunforger and had some other applications in a pinch. Just food for thought.

- Didn't see either combo last night, but as opponent's notion thief reminded me that breach/inquiry is far from bulletproof.

- chain of vapor is a card recently pointed out to me as a way to play breach multiple turns. Not sure it's worth including though since Sevinne's Reclamation already does that and more.

-Slaughter the strong was a dead draw last night in a situation where any other wipe would've been clutch. Not giving up on it yet, just worth noting.

[kirkusjones]

Finally got around to putting my Kykar build together. Got to play it today and had a blast, despite some misplays. I learned quickly that It that Betrays really messes with the LED/Breach loop, but Sudden Substitution came to the rescue.


Creatures
Thassa's Oracle
Young Pyromancer
Emry, Lurker of the Loch
Guttersnipe
Talrand, Sky Summoner
Monastery Mentor
Anger
Murmuring Mystic
Elsha of the Infinite
The Locust God

Planeswalkers
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
Teferi, Time Raveler

Enchantments
Underworld Breach
Jeskai Ascendancy
Anointed Procession

Artifacts
Mana Crypt
Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Grinding Station
Talisman of Creativity
Talisman of Conviction
Talisman of Progress
Phyrexian Altar
Aetherflux Reservoir

Instants
Pact of Negation
Swan Song
Flusterstorm
Mystical Tutor
Thought Scour
Brainstorm
Swords to Plowshares
Argivian Find
Enlightened Tutor
Silence
Dovin's Veto
Reality Shift
Telling Time
Brain Freeze
Mana Drain
Mandate of Peace
Counterflux
Intuition
Frantic Search
Force of Negation
Chaos Warp
Generous Gift
Mirrorweave
Sudden Substitution
Settle the Wreckage
Force of Will

Sorceries
Ponder
Preordain
Vandalblast
Gamble
Faithless Looting
Burning Inquiry
Paradigm Shift
Grapeshot
Bonus Round
Sevinne's Reclamation
Idyllic Tutor

Lands
Command Tower
Reflecting Pool
Glacial Fortress
Clifftop Retreat
Sulfur Falls
Sacred Foundry
Hallowed Fountain
Steam Vents
Plateau
Tundra
Volcanic Island
Scalding Tarn
Arid Mesa
Flooded Strand
Misty Rainforest
Wooded Foothills
Bloodstained Mire
Marsh Flats
Polluted Delta
Windswept Heath
Mystic Sanctuary
Ash Barrens
6 Island
4 Plains
3 Mountain

Looking to make room for Path to Exile and Supreme Verdict. Idyllic Tutor might become Muddle the Mixture, but more playtesting needs to be done. Other than that, really happy with the deck.

[MeowZeDung]

@kirkusjones Nice! I'd suggest cutting reality shift for path to exile and argivian find for supreme verdict, or better yet for this deck imo, flood of tears, time wipe, or especially tragic arrogance and hour of reckoning! I think you're dealing with a spikier meta though, so I get the desire for a no questions asked sweeper.

---

I actually got to play a quick, very casual 1v1 last night. The opposing deck was pretty weak unfortunately, so I barely count it as an actual game, but I will say that winning with two swings from my flying army then an x=16 electrodominance was fun

I did learn that Sevinne's reclamation + a fetch or two is a nifty source of ramp. In my case it was terramorphic expanse and expanse + a cycled ash barrens on the flashback.

[MeowZeDung]

I got to play Kykar two nights this week, lucky me! Victory again last night, but it was much closer this time:

- I kept a hand with two lands and a rock, but unfortunately didn't hit a third land by t3, so I had to burn through BOTH Preordain and telling time to find one. T4 rock #2 + kykar into t5 Faithless looting + an early hour of reckoning because Gishath, Sun's avatar had gone off big time.

- Sevinne's reclamation proved once again it has good utility beyond buying back underworld breach. Last night I pitched it and sunforger with Faithless looting and flashed it back to get sunforger and a freshly sacrificed strip mine

- Speaking of sunforger, it was an all star... again... I had to convince the other players that I only have one copy in the deck since I've had it in my last 3-4 games despite not tutoring for it Also had to reassure them that it's not busted because it costs 8 mana to get my first spell out of it, and 5 for each after that. Nevertheless, it dug up path to exile at one point, and then settle the wreckage in response to a lethal opposing alpha strike for a win on the crack back.

- I had valor in Akros in hand for the first time and was excited to test it out, but then promptly drew Cathars' Crusade So, I went with the strictly better option, which combined admirably with saheeli, sublime artificer and kykar to produce fat ghosts and robots

---

I think I'll make some small tweaks before my next game. Specifically, fast/have lands out for ravnica bounce lands and wandering fumarole. The addition of turnabout and the combo it goes in, plus the ascendancy effects, makes these changes seem like a no-brainer tbh.

I'm also strongly considering a replacement for divine visitation. Powerful as it is, it interferes with spirit mana and is the only token engine, except for maybe the Locust God, that I'd rather not have in the early game. Usually I don't want it until around 1-2 turns before a lethal attack step. So, some candidates to test in it's slot that I'd love feedback on, in no particular order:

• sephara, sky's blade
• Blind obedience
• Fact or Fiction
• Stroke of genius
• Rhystic study
• Nin, the pain artist
• Expansion // explosion
• Dovin's veto
• Counterspell
• Fight to the death
• Deflecting palm
• Jeskai charm
• Izzet charm
• Anger
• Authority of the consuls
• Mad ratter
• Nadir kraken

[MeowZeDung]

I've just completed a big update to the OP, especially the card choice discussion and deck strategy section, which now includes a subsection for the 2 new combos I've added since THB came out. I will be applying for Primer status here shortly, fingers crossed!

Also, a few changes to the manabase and one spell swap:

2/9/20

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

OUT (7)

1 Plains

1 Island

1 Mountain

1 Prairie Stream

1 Spirebluff Canal

1 Inspiring Vantage

1 Divine Visitation

IN (7)

1 Wandering Fumarole

1 Azorius Chancery

1 Izzet Boilerworks

1 Boros Garrison

1 Nimbus Maze

1 Rogue's Passage

1 Expansion // Explosion

Approximate Total Cost:

Spirebluff Canal, Inspiring Vantage, Prairie Stream → Bouncelands - Adding the ravnica bouncelands because they play nice with Turnabout.

Basics → Rogue's Passage, Wandering Fumarole, Nimbus Maze - I do hesitate to shed basics, but I think Nimbus Maze will be a dual more often than not, Fumarole gives another manland to play nice with Ascendancy effects and Turnabout, and Rogue's Passage has won me a lot of games with other decks and is one of the criminally underrated utility lands IMO. We'll see how they all perform.

Divine Visitation → Expansion // Explosion - Visitation is powerful, but the fact that it messes with spirit mana and breach/inquiry have me lower on it lately. E//E is massively versatile and gives me another sweet mana sink for infinite mana from the Turnabout combo that can kill one player with damage and a second by forcing them to draw their library +1.

[OCPunisher]

+1 for Nimbus Maze, should be a Tundra more often than not.
+1 more for Expansion // Explosion, checks a lot of boxes for just one card.

[Rumpy5897]

Nice read, didn't go through the thread, but here's some minor construction food for thought:

• Impulse seems like it'd be better than Telling Time. Goes deeper, you get to keep one and ship the rest. Sometimes there might be interesting stuff to keep, but it feels like it'd be safer to not run the risk of sticking chaff on top.
• Awaiting an Arcane Signet reprint is a dangerous game. That said, I feel the crazy hype for it has died down a bit (I only run it in one of my decks). Still, a fiver is not a particularly insane price for it, and it's a nice functional piece for the deck

[MeowZeDung]

Nice read, didn't go through the thread, but here's some minor construction food for thought:

• Impulse seems like it'd be better than Telling Time. Goes deeper, you get to keep one and ship the rest. Sometimes there might be interesting stuff to keep, but it feels like it'd be safer to not run the risk of sticking chaff on top.
• Awaiting an Arcane Signet reprint is a dangerous game. That said, I feel the crazy hype for it has died down a bit (I only run it in one of my decks). Still, a fiver is not a particularly insane price for it, and it's a nice functional piece for the deck

Thanks for checking it out!

I go back and forth in my mind about several of the available cantrips, and those two in particular. Both are great, and I suppose I'm currently running telling time to avoid the feel bad of choosing between two great cards which to keep and which to ship. There are enough shuffle effects that the difference is probably marginal either way though, so maybe the only truly relevant factor is how deep they dig. When I view it in that light, impulse is obviously better. It's a switch I'll keep mulling over until my next update.

Sigh. Signet. I'm basically holding out to see if it's in the ikoria decks, and if not I'll get one as a single and swap thought vessel out for it.

[darrenhabib]

I've been playing my own Kykar, Wind's Fury build lately, and been winning almost every game. Its budgetless and geared towards cEDH.

I will say that it doesn't have the Divergent Transformations combo, basically because the card is NOT available online. Yes MTGO has a lot of cards that were never developed. I'm still waiting for them to make Mairsil, the Pretender.
Anyway it would be good to mention a Divergent Transformations combo that is possible for deck makers.
Because of Kykar ability to create creatures, you can have a deck that only has two creatures to be sure that they are Tooth and Nailed.
The current "go to" creatures are Elsha of the Infinite and Spellseeker, where Seeker gets Enlightened Tutor which is used to find Sensei's Divining Top. This is of course infinite draw with Kykar, Wind's Fury in play creating a Spirit for mana to recast the Top.

As far as my own build, its completely creatureless, except for the commander itself. The main reason I built the deck in the first place was to really use Underworld Breach to its finest. This card has fast become the commander card for combo/value town.
Then I also wanted to really make use of another cool card in Wild Research. Just a pet Jeskai card of mine that can be built around.

So here is the list, and I've named it "Kykar Breach" after Underworld Breach.

Kykar Breach

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Kykar, Wind's Fury

Enchantments

1 Land Tax

1 Mystic Remora

1 Underworld Breach

1 Wild Research

1 Rhystic Study

1 Smothering Tithe

1 Kindred Discovery

Artifacts (mana)

1 Chrome Mox

1 Mox Amber

1 Mox Diamond

1 Mana Crypt

1 Lotus Petal

1 Lion's Eye Diamond

1 Mox Opal

1 Mana Vault

1 Sol Ring

1 Azorius Signet

1 Arcane Signet

1 Fellwar Stone

1 Izzet Signet

1 Talisman of Conviction

1 Talisman of Creativity

1 Talisman of Progress

Artifacts (other)

1 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Skullclamp

1 Torpor Orb

1 Isochron Scepter

Instant or sorcery (counterspells)

1 Mental Misstep

1 Dispel

1 Flusterstorm

1 Swan Song

1 Stifle

1 Pyroblast

1 Arcane Denial

1 Dovin's Veto

1 Mana Drain

1 Force of Will

Instant or sorcery (removal)

1 Chain of Vapor

1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Path to Exile

1 Vandalblast

1 Wear // Tear

1 Cyclonic Rift

1 Heliod's Intervention

Instant or sorcery (cantrips)

1 Gitaxian Probe

1 Brainstorm

1 Opt

1 Ponder

1 Preordain

1 Faithless Looting

1 Frantic Search

1 Dig Through Time

Sorcery (symmetrical draw)

1 Timetwister

1 Windfall

1 Wheel of Fortune

1 Time Spiral

1 Commit // Memory

Instant or sorcery (tutors)

1 Gamble

1 Enlightened Tutor

1 Mystical Tutor

1 Merchant Scroll

1 Intuition

Instant (other)

1 Silence

1 High Tide

1 Dramatic Reversal

1 Snap

1 Argivian Find

1 Brain Freeze

Planeswalker

1 Narset, Parter of Veils

Lands (30)

1 Command Tower

1 City of Brass

1 Tundra

1 Hallowed Fountain

1 Mystic Gate

1 Volcanic Island

1 Steam Vents

1 Fiery Islet

1 Cascade Bluffs

1 Plateau

1 Sacred Foundry

1 Sunbaked Canyon

1 Mystic Sanctuary

5 Island

1 Plains

1 Mountain

1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 Flooded Strand

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Polluted Delta

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Windswept Heath

1 Wooded Foothills

Approximate Total Cost:

Alright so "what is the win condition?". Well this is where I have the most fun with this deck is because it falls right into align with what I like to do is build decks with the least amount of "win conditions" and focus on advantages instead. If you look at my Zacama list I have a single land as the way to actually kill opponents, and that is always good enough given that the rest of the deck functions as intended.

So the way you win is by milling out your opponents with Brain Freeze. Once you've milled most of your own library to fuel the Underworld Breach you build up enough storm that by the time you cast it on your opponents, you only need to cast it between 2 or maybe 3 times maximum on an opponent. By the time you get to the last opponent(s), 2 times is enough, and honestly even if it was a table of 8 players you'll have all the mana and escape 3 cards you need to mill people out.
You can also get all the mana you need via some cards like, Dramatic Reversal or combining High Tide with Frantic Search/Snap or even Lion's Eye Diamond.

Now if a player just so happens to have the Eldrazi Titans in Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, because they are triggers that go onto the stack, you can just cast Stifle which will be in your graveyard for casting with Underworld Breach.

Most people would just play Thassa's Oracle as the sort of shortcut to victory, but I like not having to dedicate a slot when it is not needed, and also Torpor Orb is in the deck to stop opposing similar strategies.

As I said Wild Research was the other card that I really wanted to exploit, and there are a few tricks in using it well.
Land Tax helps with making the odds of discarding the card you want less.
But if you go for Underworld Breach as the enchantment and it gets discarded, then you can go for Argivian Find as an instant to try and get it back.
There is also Hall of Heliod's Generosity to put Underworld Breach back on top.
The great thing with Hall of Heliod's Generosity and Underworld Breach is that you can use Breach in a turn where you simply want value from a card or two, and you know you have access to it later down the line, when you want to combo.

So for example an Intuition package I look to use when I specifically ready for Underworld Breach combo; Underworld Breach, Hall of Heliod's Generosity, Argivian Find, which means that no matter I'll be able to get the Breach.

Wild Research is then excellent, because say I tutor for Brain Freeze and it gets discarded, I can still cast with the Underworld Breach.

I actually thought that the Wild Research was going to be a "cute but not really that good" in the deck, more like my own personal flavor, but actually once I got better at playing with it, its been an all-star, winning a lot of games by setting up with it. You just need to be patient and wait till you've got a good threshold of cards in hand, and with the backup plays you really can get all the combo pieces you need with it, which Jeskai does have the weakest 3 colors for tutoring, given Black and Green are the best at searching for cards.

There are a bunch of Wheel effects (draw 7) and these are used to keep refilling your hand after deploying a lot of artifact mana. Even though most of them shuffle your graveyard into your library, the Underworld Breach is NOT about trying to fuel your graveyard through the course of the game.
Its about creating a storm turn where you then cast Brain Freeze on yourself in a big turn, and then you have all the cards you need.
Of note Wild Research can search for Commit // Memory if you wanted to try for a new lot of draw. Note you can empty your hand to make sure it goes to graveyard. Unfortunately Echo of Eons is only a sorcery, so you can't search it the same way with Wild Research, that is why I don't have it in the deck.


After reading your thread, I was not aware of the Burning Inquiry combo which is cool I could definitely add it to my list.

[MeowZeDung]

After reading your thread, I was not aware of the Burning Inquiry combo which is cool I could definitely add it to my list.

The cool thing about it IMO is that on the one hand it is a "predictable" and infinite combo, but I'm rarely if ever going to win with it in isolation: I'm almost always using it just as a massive dig and storm generator into some other win condition. The first win I got with it was digging until I escaped The Locust God and Impact Tremors, and a couple nights ago it was Brain Freeze to mill my opponent out. I personally appreciate the randomness and variety. It's also workable with Goblin Lore, but not infinite unless you have Anointed Procession out to double up on the spirit mana. The card advantage offsets this a bit though, and I may try including it someday. I'm glad my work was informative!

Thanks for sharing your list and experience with it. I'm glad to see that Kykar is getting some cEDH love and not just Narset and Elsha!

I have always really been intrigued by Wild Research, but never tried it out. An overcosted but reusable Gamble with restrictions is. . . wacky if nothing else That's cool that you built around it a bit and have been having success with it. I'll probably do the same eventually, being a Jeskai nut, but I don't think my style of Kykar build is the deck for it. Have you considered Sevinne's Reclamation as another way to get Breach back with Research should the Argivian Find backup plan also fail? Gotta love that flashback. Hall of Heliod's Generosity is a land I'll probably pick up and include eventually since it also buys back the Ascendancy effects if the situation calls for it. I do enjoy that Intuition setup

cEDH also isn't my cup o' tea, but I do like reading about it every now and again! Intuition, Enlightened Tutor, Spellseeker, and Sensei's Divining Top are great cards, just not fun to play with/against except for competitively imo, though I know many fine players disagree with me strongly on that point. Top has obvious synergy with Kykar, but I ran into this problem with my The Locust God list where I'd fall into the same play pattern every game with Skullclamp + Ashnod's Altar and tutors for them. I want to avoid the same here. I may change my mind someday as power creep impacts the format. We'll see.

Similarly, while I love me some Oath of Druids and Sneak Attack type nonsense in cube drafts, I don't think I would ever play Divergent Transformations except as a way to turn some tokens into Monastery Mentors and The Locust Gods. Just personal preference.

Stifle is a very clever workaround for the eldrazi titan/blightsteel mill issue that I didn't consider. I was thinking that Bribery was the best option if limiting yourself to just the mill win-con, or lab man/Thassa's Oracle for a self mill backup. Glad to see I was wrong and there are other options! Suddenly I feel silly for not seeing this and realizing that Nimble Obstructionist, Disallow, Tale's End, and Trickbind also work. Even still, I prefer having multiple win-cons in my less than cEDH powered list, although I love the idea of a self-imposed restriction of that sort!

Have you found that Dig Through Time still gives you enough breathing room for Breach? I cut it and Treasure Cruise both just because I felt they would interfere too much.

Not gonna lie, I'm jealous you get to run Mystic Sanctuary, but I just don't have the budget for all those fetches!

It's late now, but I'll probably re-read your post a few times in the next few days. Methinks I could glean some goodies from it!

EDIT: I'm really surprised at Heliod's Intervention in the list now that I think about it. Why this over Disenchant or Forsake the Worldly or Crush Contraband? Do you think the lifegain mode is worth running it over the others?

[darrenhabib]

Thanks for sharing your list and experience with it. I'm glad to see that Kykar is getting some cEDH love and not just Narset and Elsha!

Actually I think Kykar is the strongest among these 3, having experience with all of them. Mainly because the other 2 absolutely rely on them remaining in play, where as Kykar builds can function better if in command zone.

Have you considered Sevinne's Reclamation as another way to get Breach back with Research should the Argivian Find backup plan also fail? Gotta love that flashback. Hall of Heliod's Generosity is a land I'll probably pick up and include eventually since it also buys back the Ascendancy effects if the situation calls for it. I do enjoy that Intuition setup

I have considered Sevinne's Reclamation, would be a fine addition, but unfortunately its a sorcery so can't specifically tutor it up with Wild Research.
But being able to Brain Freeze the Underworld Breach into graveyard is something that could be done, although just because the flashback is 4w I'd be a bit wary about specifically trying to combo that way.
Not impossible however.

Stifle is a very clever workaround for the eldrazi titan/blightsteel mill issue that I didn't consider. I was thinking that Bribery was the best option if limiting yourself to just the mill win-con, or lab man/Thassa's Oracle for a self mill backup. Glad to see I was wrong and there are other options! Suddenly I feel silly for not seeing this and realizing that Nimble Obstructionist, Disallow, Tale's End, and Trickbind also work. Even still, I prefer having multiple win-cons in my less than cEDH powered list, although I love the idea of a self-imposed restriction of that sort!

The thing is the the stock value of Stifle has gone up tremendously in cEDH with Thassa's Oracle being 90% of the way to win in the format at the moment. As another 1 mana play to stop that combo I'm happy to be playing it anyway.

Have you found that Dig Through Time still gives you enough breathing room for Breach? I cut it and Treasure Cruise both just because I felt they would interfere too much.

Very happy to be playing it, and I haven't yet run out of cards when using Underworld Breach, not even close.
As I was saying it's not like you stock your graveyard to setup for the Breach, the way its played is via casting a lot of spells, and then using Brain Freeze multiple times on yourself to basically put your entire graveyard into your library..or actually literally.
So during the course of the game you are fine exiling your graveyard to the Dig Through Time.
The other thing is that there are a lot of shuffle graveyard into library draw cards in Timetwister, Time Spiral, Commit // Memory so I don't value stocking the graveyard during the course of the game, as there is a good chance of casting one of these leading up to a combo turn. So in this way again are fine with exiling graveyard to Dig Through Time first to get value before it all goes back in.
The reason I've been big on it is that it's another tutor-able card by Wild Research, and there are times that you just want to draw into action first before going for combo wins.

EDIT: I'm really surprised at Heliod's Intervention in the list now that I think about it. Why this over Disenchant or Forsake the Worldly or Crush Contraband? Do you think the lifegain mode is worth running it over the others?

Its probably overkill, but I have won games off the back of it, just a blowout in some spots. Although specifically in cEDH its pretty weak against the Flash+Hulk combo in that they don't really play out many enchantments and artifacts.
Never used it for the life-gain, although in one game I was close to doing it against a Purphoros, God of the Forge, but I ended up comboing before they could finish me anyway.
If I was to cut it, it would just be for some other goodstuff combo/counterspell, rather than specifically removal. Actually I'll probably just play Sevinne's Reclamation in that slot.

[MeowZeDung]

I have considered Sevinne's Reclamation, would be a fine addition, but unfortunately its a sorcery so can't specifically tutor it up with Wild Research.
But being able to Brain Freeze the Underworld Breach into graveyard is something that could be done, although just because the flashback is I'd be a bit wary about specifically trying to combo that way.
Not impossible however.

I keep forgetting about Research only getting an instant or enchantment

In cEDH I can see why the flashback cost on Reclamation might be prohibitive and open you up to a massive blowout from a counterspell, but I've found it to be fine out here in the wilderness of offline "fair" metas

Very happy to be playing [Dig Through Time], and I haven't yet run out of cards when using Underworld Breach, not even close.
As I was saying it's not like you stock your graveyard to setup for the Breach, the way its played is via casting a lot of spells, and then using Brain Freeze multiple times on yourself to basically put your entire graveyard into your library..or actually literally.
So during the course of the game you are fine exiling your graveyard to the Dig Through Time.

I agree about the Brain Freeze utilization with Breach, and that what you're looking to do is set up a huge storm turn. However, in my case where I have far fewer tutors and ways to get my hands on various combo pieces, I think I'll often find myself playing Breach just for value early in the game and buying it back with Sevinne's Reclamation later. Hence my concern with the delve spells. If I have both Breach and Brain Freeze available, it's a non-issue, but the times that I don't could be problematic in that I've delved away a big chunk of my yard and now have a dead draw in Breach.

[MeowZeDung]

This is a boring note for myself more than anything, but feel free to chime in with any thoughts or feedback.

Changes to make next update:
Telling Time → Impulse
Make room for Jeskai Charm???

Cards I need to pick up for this list:
Anger
Hall of Heliod's Generosity
Kindred Discovery
Arcane Signet, assuming no Ikoria precon reprint.
Talisman of Progress, assuming no Ikoria precon reprint.
Mystic Gate, assuming no Ikoria precon reprint.

[MeowZeDung]

I got a game in tonight where I got to play with some cards that have been added in recent updates and haven't seen tons of play in the list yet. Unfortunately the game was kind of poop soup for our heroic bird wizard, but I still gleaned some useful info!

- I had Narset's Reversal and Opt in hand by turn 2, and having nothing to copy when it was about to be my turn 3, I cast opt and saw Underworld Breach on the scry. I put it on the bottom since I didn't have anything in the yard yet and wanted to draw into some interaction. I drew Burning Inquiry I never saw Gamble or Idyllic Tutor to go get the breach back from the bottom of my library, and no shuffle effects came up either. The game played out in such a way that almost everything in my hand EXCEPT inquiry seemed essential, and I couldn't risk discarding any of it and replacing it with 1-3 random lands off the top, so inquiry remained an unlucky dead draw all game.

- The Narset's Reversal nailed a Farseek the next turn to go get an Irrigated Farmland since Hallowed Fountain was already out having been fetched on turn 1, and I had two red sources in hand already. It felt gooooood.

- Valor in Akros was in my opening hand and I was excited to test it out, so I kept even though I didn't have a mana rock or any other token engine. The unfortunate lesson I learned is that this effect is really at its best later in the game when I want to pump the team big and close things out. Unlike Cathars' Crusade it doesn't leave behind huge creatures permanently, and unlike Jeskai Ascendancy it doesn't let me sculpt an ideal hand. Game circumstances led to me never quite getting ahead, or even up to par with the other decks that got out to crazy fast starts, and Valor just didn't pull its weight when playing from behind. I'm not ready to yank it out yet, but I will keep this in mind for future mulligan decisions.

- Slaughter the Strong, Hour of Reckoning, and Tragic Arrogance all earned their pay tonight, playing out asymmetrically as they are meant to in this deck. Unfortunately my opponents' decks really did get out to such a fast start that even three wipes by ~turn 8 weren't enough to keep me in the mix.

- My big misplay was holding up two UW duals hoping to cast the Expansion half of Expansion // Explosion on an opposing draw or removal spell since I missed a couple land drops and just didn't have the mana to sink into a big Explosion. The mythical spell I was going to copy never appeared. What I should have done instead was hit the scary opponent with 15+ mana on their upkeep with the Silence I had in my hand.

Can't win em all.

[MeowZeDung]

I played a redemptive game last night:

A pretty normal start; t2 signet into t3 Kykar. t4 I played impact tremors, and the Gishath player had run out a Taurean Mauler, so suddenly my spellcasting seemed mighty relevant to the game. I held up my other 3 mana for the frantic search → render silent I had in hand. Nothing worth countering came up, so I just frantic searched hoping to draw into something that would give me value from untapping the lands, but no such luck. However, I did draw into Cathars' Crusade, which was more than enough of a consolation prize. Having learned my lesson from the game 2 days ago, I was already planning on the Valor in Akros I had in hand being one of my discards, and crusade made that even more certain.

The Alela, Artful Provocateur player had a couple of anthems out alongside a Archetype of Finality, and was feeling pretty safe during combat with big, deathtouching faeries, so they decided impact tremors was the biggest threat and put it under a Conclave Tribunal. I spent my Render Silent on a Goring Ceratops and effectively shut down something like 5-6 of Gishath's lands for the turn. A couple of turns later, after I had been smacked by Gishath and some dinos had joined the party, Alela hit Verdant Sun's Avatar with Cast Out and admitted that they didn't know whether preventing mass dino lifegain or +1/+1 counters via Cathars' Crusade was the right play there. It proved to be the linchpin decision of the game. Their board of flying deathtouchers led them to choose the avatar over the crusade.

I had built up an army of 7-8 spirits over the last couple of turns, and the oldest batch of them had 4 counters on them at that point. Without the Verdant Sun's Avatar gaining them life, the Gishath player flipping over 7 dinos with Silverblade Paladin + Gishath, Sun's Avatar wasn't enough to save them, since they only had one source of flying/reach with Shifting Ceratops. Spirits went sideways and took them out.

Alela pointed frogify at the now 8/8 Kykar, but it was too little too late. I didn't need the spirit mana any more, and the crusade was about to get out of hand. They had lost several blockers staving off Gishath and the dino stampede, and could only block my biggest 3-4 attackers. I chained together Faithless Looting (twice), Telling Time, and Burning Inquiry to buff up dem spirits and swing for the win.

It was a solid win, but a single board wipe would have changed everything, likely in Alela's favor, and I didn't have a ton of gas in hand to rebuild with unfortunately. While I'm happy to have won, I have to acknowledge there was certainly some luck involved.

[Nimbaway]

Played the deck last night as well, though they weren't really good games for me. Opponents ran Atraxa Proliferate, Goreclaw Green Stompy and a Padeem artifact shenanigans. Aside from Atraxa not too high powered, but with Goreclaw it meant Padeem player usually flies under the radar until they lock the board up.

First game I simply flooded out the moment I got Kykar on board, giving the others too much advantage for me to get back in the game.

Second game was slightly more decent but just made me realize that my current build just has too many flaws. I had opted to run more counters and reactive spells and that's simply not what the deck wants, as either your wasting them on insignificant stuff or your just stuck with them in hand.

So will have to make some changes before bringing it back out, probably bring it closer to the lists featured here.

[MeowZeDung]

Second game was slightly more decent but just made me realize that my current build just has too many flaws. I had opted to run more counters and reactive spells and that's simply not what the deck wants, as either your wasting them on insignificant stuff or your just stuck with them in hand.

I went back and forth on whether to include Counterspell, Arcane Denial, and Swan Song early on in the life of the deck, but I found exactly what you say to be true. This deck wants to spellsling proactively. I've found just running the Sunforger friendly counterspells to be sufficient, and I even cut Dovin's Veto because it was narrower than the others, although that is likely a meta call. Combo heavy metas definitely want the Veto.

[MeowZeDung]

The primer tag looks good on you Kykar ol' buddy

The OP has definitely been shined up a lot in the last couple of weeks. If you're a Kykar fan who read it a while back, check it out again in its new and improved state.

[toctheyounger]

It is looking pretty tasty. Congratulations on the label, you did very nicely!

[WizardMN]

This is a boring note for myself more than anything, but feel free to chime in with any thoughts or feedback.

Changes to make next update:
Telling Time → Impulse
Make room for Jeskai Charm???

Cards I need to pick up for this list:
Anger
Hall of Heliod's Generosity
Kindred Discovery
Arcane Signet, assuming no Ikoria precon reprint.
Talisman of Progress, assuming no Ikoria precon reprint.
Mystic Gate, assuming no Ikoria precon reprint.

I think Impulse is an easy addition over Telling Time. It digs one deeper and you don't need to worry about a potential dead draw next turn (which, effectively, means it digs 2 deeper).

I have Jeskai Charm in my build and I have gotten close to cutting it a couple times. The first and third modes are decent, but I have other cards for the third mode and I have found the first is only marginally good. Your experience may vary, and by all means try it if you have the space, but I wouldn't necessarily try to force it in.

I definitely like Kindred Discovery for everything but the mana cost. But, it should draw a ton of cards. I might have to get one for my deck. Arcane Signet isn't bad either and the Talisman is a good choice.

Second game was slightly more decent but just made me realize that my current build just has too many flaws. I had opted to run more counters and reactive spells and that's simply not what the deck wants, as either your wasting them on insignificant stuff or your just stuck with them in hand.

I went back and forth on whether to include Counterspell, Arcane Denial, and Swan Song early on in the life of the deck, but I found exactly what you say to be true. This deck wants to spellsling proactively. I've found just running the Sunforger friendly counterspells to be sufficient, and I even cut Dovin's Veto because it was narrower than the others, although that is likely a meta call. Combo heavy metas definitely want the Veto.

I am on the other side of this coin, though I prefer reactiveness so I have some bias there. In fact, I have a lot of reactive spells in my deck. I generally play mine as more of a control shell that happens to give me a free token. Which I can then use later for some big mana spells. Even ignoring the differences in philosophy, I think a blue deck really wants counters either way and this deck wants those 3 counters especially. Arcane Denial and Swan Song are easy to cast and Denial draws us cards. I would easily go with Mana Drain over Counterspell but I think Counterspell is fine if budget is a concern. My deck doesn't currently run it since it is supposed to be somewhat "budget friendly" for a reason but I do run those 3 along with Disallow and Absorb.

To be fair, I don't currently run Sunforger though that is likely a mistake. So, I can definitely understand you wanting to have your counter magic able to be found with that. If I did include it, I would lean more into Absorb (already in mine), Ionize, and Counterflux, As long as you have something for situations where stack interaction is needed, such as an Entwined Tooth and Nail or a resolving Craterhoof Behemoth you should be good.

I wasn't sure I was going to keep my deck around, and I have not kept up with this thread as much as I should have because of that, but I have been finding Kykar to be exceptionally fun to play, even if mine is quite a bit different. I will likely get a thread for mine at some point so I can record my games with it.

Also, welcome to the elite group of "people who can type good and make pretty threads" Just kidding; congrats on the Primer status!