Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger Tokens

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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Glad to hear you got the win off of spirit mana and teferi! Brutal, yes. Friendly, casual play, no :crazy:

My experience has been that I never really need to cast Kykar more than 2-3 times. Usually I'm able to get enough advantage the first two times to have the rest of the deck carry me along at a more affordable rate. However, that's b/c I have quite a few token engines independent of Kykar. Since that's not the case for your list, Kykar is supremely important. I would definitely run the beacon in that case, and maybe even look at some stuff like Gods Willing and brave the elements to go with emerge unscathed and Boros charm, or more counterspells.

On a separate note, all the card recommendations in the last few posts really have me thinking. I just have too many good cards to test and not enough slots. I absolutely can NOT go down another land, but I think I'm convinced I need to try out mandate of peace in Brudiclad's place. The hardest part of tuning is always making cuts.
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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
The hardest part of tuning is always making cuts.
This is so true, and even more so when you add more colors!

One of the things I've started doing with each game I play is to jot down a few small notes about some of the cards that made an impact in the game. Then, the more times a card shows up in my notes, the more I can judge it (good or bad). You can also jot down something you wish you had more of, or something you're weak against. For example, I noted several times how my Scarab deck wanted a Snapcaster Mage, so after seeing the pattern form, I added one. It's certainly not a foolproof plan, but it could help you identify some patterns to sort through all the fluff.

Another thing I've noticed lately is that Kykar and (his or her?) token army is pretty good at defending planeswalkers, especially the cheap ones that have recently come out. Specifically, I'm looking at adding Dack Fayden and Teferi, Time Raveler, but I'll consider any of the three-mana guys.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
4 years ago
Kykar and (his or her?)
I'm not a vorthos, and I don't know if there's any lore around Kykar as a character in the MtG story. I will probably always go with "it" though. . . because we're talking about a Bird Wizard that poops spirits and then kills them for food for crying out loud.
OCPunisher wrote:
4 years ago
I'll consider any of the three-mana guys.
Narset, Parter of Veils is great for choking the rest of the table on cards if you can keep her alive. If you want to explore walkers in Kykar, I wouldn't rule out Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Narset Transcendent at 4 mana for the card advantage and removal/rebound utility. Apparently even Teferi's ultimate isn't out of the question with spirits to protect him, atleast in WizardMN's meta.

Honestly, I don't think a powerful superfriends build is out of the question with Kykar precisely because the spirits keep the walkers fairly safe. If you're curious about some possibilities, check out [mention]darrenhabib[/mention]'s awesome Kenrith twins primer for some great ideas for a start, at least from an Izzet angle.

The basic idea is that a Will K. activation makes walkers (Rowan, in particular) cheaper, and you can then play various walkers that create mana (chandras) or untap rocks/lands (ral, mono u teferi, tezzeret). In darren's build it's all meant to be optimized around Rowan emblem(s) to get double activations so you can just chain cost reduced walkers with all that mana they make.

Obviously without the twins in the command zone you would lose a lot of consistency, but you would still have good ol' Gamble to... errrr... hopefully smooth things out and find Rowan, and spirit mana could functionally serve a similar role as Will's cost reduction activation.

Adding white gives you some serious lifegain, some removal, and spirit buffing from Ajanis/Elspeths/Serra, The Wanderer gives more PW protection and some powerful board control, Venser, the Sojourner can reset a walker and enable a lethal alpha strike.

I won't be building it, but I would be curious to see what someone would come up with!
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Post by darrenhabib » 4 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
OCPunisher wrote:
4 years ago
Kykar and (his or her?)
I'm not a vorthos, and I don't know if there's any lore around Kykar as a character in the MtG story. I will probably always go with "it" though. . . because we're talking about a Bird Wizard that poops spirits and then kills them for food for crying out loud.
OCPunisher wrote:
4 years ago
I'll consider any of the three-mana guys.
Narset, Parter of Veils is great for choking the rest of the table on cards if you can keep her alive. If you want to explore walkers in Kykar, I wouldn't rule out Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Narset Transcendent at 4 mana for the card advantage and removal/rebound utility. Apparently even Teferi's ultimate isn't out of the question with spirits to protect him, atleast in WizardMN's meta.

Honestly, I don't think a powerful superfriends build is out of the question with Kykar precisely because the spirits keep the walkers fairly safe. If you're curious about some possibilities, check out darrenhabib's awesome Kenrith twins primer for some great ideas for a start, at least from an Izzet angle.

The basic idea is that a Will K. activation makes walkers (Rowan, in particular) cheaper, and you can then play various walkers that create mana (chandras) or untap rocks/lands (ral, mono u teferi, tezzeret). In darren's build it's all meant to be optimized around Rowan emblem(s) to get double activations so you can just chain cost reduced walkers with all that mana they make.

Obviously without the twins in the command zone you would lose a lot of consistency, but you would still have good ol' Gamble to... errrr... hopefully smooth things out and find Rowan, and spirit mana could functionally serve a similar role as Will's cost reduction activation.

Adding white gives you some serious lifegain, some removal, and spirit buffing from Ajanis/Elspeths/Serra, The Wanderer gives more PW protection and some powerful board control, Venser, the Sojourner can reset a walker and enable a lethal alpha strike.

I won't be building it, but I would be curious to see what someone would come up with!
I'd be quite happy to have Kykar at the helm of a Superfriends build.

Now [mention]OCPunisher[/mention] said the "three mana" planeswalkers, but it's important to note that things like Teferi, Temporal Archmage can in many ways be considered a two mana planeswalker or even no cost with a mana source that provides two or more.
Similarly Tezzeret the Seeker with a healthy amount of artifact mana in the deck is often more like a three mana walker.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance is a pseudo two mana planeswalker, and Teferi, Hero of Dominaria with enough instants in the deck is a three mana planeswalker.

Other walkers I like in a Kykar build would be Tamiyo, the Moon Sage as her [-2] could draw you a lot of cards with targeting yourself with your own Spirits, but also the emblem is something you can work up to with your Spirit blocking potential.
Narset Transcendent is also a perfect fit with a powerful emblem and great card advantage.

You could run Will & Rowan Kenrith in the deck, but if you're trying to build up to emblems you do need pay off cards, and my primer has supporting cards to this idea. However the 2-for-1 deal you get with the partnership is very enticing in your 99 and Will ability for cost reduction can set up you brilliantly in subsequent turns.

Narset, Parter of Veils goes better with the symmetrical draw effects like Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, Timetwister, Time Spiral.

That's all you need in my opinion, these (the ones I've listed) and Teferi, Time Raveler and Dack Fayden as already mentioned, and you have yourself a pretty clear planeswalker build. I've found you don't need to go overboard with the number of them, you have a distinct plan of aiming for the ultimates and emblems of some of them, and you have a way of protecting them with the Spirits.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Alrighty, some more fine tuning, and then in theory I'll leave it alone for a while. . . but we all know that isn't true :crazy:



Ghost Quarter > Emergence Zone - My meta isn't overflowing with overpowered lands, so sticking with only Strip Mine for LD is probably ok. Usually I'm just blowing up a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Cabal Coffers, and it's much more rare that I'm facing down a Dark Depths or Westvale Abbey that are threatening to flip. There are no Valakut's or Gaea's Cradles in my meta thankfully. As such, I feel fine getting some more utility out of a land slot and Emergence Zone lets me flash in a token engine.

Time Wipe > Slaughter the Strong - Both are color intensive, but StS is cheaper overall and still leaves Kykar untouched as long as Eldrazi Monument isn't in play plus saves me 4 mana since I don't have to re-cast Kykar from my hand. I don't like that I'm giving my opponents options, but I think its an ok tradeoff since Slaughter gets around indestructible and protection while Time Wipe does not.

Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer > Nin, the Pain Artist - I'm sad to see Brudi go since the haste and token copying was cool and useful, but he is pricey and I can definitely use more raw card advantage. Nin will have plenty of expendable targets to fry with her ability at instant speed and net me a bunch of cards, and the emergency removal "mode" may prove useful.

Gitaxian Probe > Opt - This switch happened a few weeks ago, but somehow I missed it in the thread. I'm looking to upgrade to instant speed wherever I can without sacrificing too much value.

Serum Visions > Telling Time - Once again, I'm looking to upgrade to instant speed wherever I can to get pseudo-hasty spirits by generating most of them on opponents' end steps. I'm not sure if Impulse or Telling Time is the better choice here, but I'm going to give TT a whirl. It doesn't dig as deep as Impulse, but it sets up my next draw. The risk is that 2/3 cards are duds and setting up your next draw does no good. Impulse has the opposite problem though, where 4/4 of the cards may be gas and you have to bury 3 of them.

Chart a Course > Perilous Research - In hindsight, Chart was a bad include, but in my defense I didn't know Perilous Research existed. I think it's better than a lot of other 2 mana options here just because it gives card advantage, which I need more of.

Increasing Vengeance > Bonus Round - Ooooook. This swap might be the most questionable. I'm downgrading to sorcery speed and adding to my curve here, and Bonus Round is a symmetrical effect which is quite risky, but I think the ceiling on it is soooooooo high that it's worth it. The copies don't generate tokens, but I think the turns I play Bonus Round will generate such insane value anyway. I mean, how do I not remove multiple problem permanents and sculpt a perfect hand after playing Bonus Round in this deck? Plus, it's just a really freakin fun card :cool:

Aetherflux Reservoir > Silence - I dislike winning with Reservoir enough that I'm willing to risk putting more pressure on Impact Tremors and Goblin Bombardment to deliver as my only non-combat win conditions in order to free up a slot. I decided to finally invest in a copy of Silence and I think it's perfect in this deck. Shutting down the scariest opponent on their upkeep, or protecting myself by resolving it on my upkeep on a turn I plan on going off seems great. The floor for this card is : trigger token generators, bait out a Counterspell. Even that is good!

Unbreakable Formation > Mandate of Peace - Sigh. I've talked up formation a bunch in this thread, and I still think it's good in this deck, but cuts are brutal and I'm not so blinded by my fondness for it that I don't see how it is clunky and situational and "win-more". Mandate, on the other hand, is a total blowout. The more I thought about it, the more I realized this one card does so much. I can cast it: 1) after my attackers have connected for a 2 mana Silence to protect my second main 2) when an opponent swings at me for lethal as a Fog AND a Silence for their second main 3) as a Counterflux for removal and flash creatures that also hits abilities (!) if things go south for me with the stack during combat. Then of course there's the cherry on top of token generators triggering on the cast!



On a separate note, let's talk new cards! Or, more specifically, card. There's only one that's been spoiled so far that has me excited for this deck:



Oh, baby!

This card + Frantic Search OR Faithless Looting + spirit mana can keep going for a while if I've already got a decent amount of cards in the yard. I think the nut is to sac Emergence Zone on my opponent's end step to flash out Breach and then go nuts with a Search/Looting chain. Flashing it out this way gets around the "beginning of end step clause" and gives me access to it after I untap for my turn as well :cool: Of course, that is best case scenario thinking, but just consider some of the other cards this pairs amazingly with:

Bonus Round - stack this a couple of times to copy everything else I cast a bajillion times
Opt - sculpt that hand
Gamble - sculpt that hand and keep the chain going by filling the yard
Visions of Beyond - draw, draw, and draw some more
Brainstorm - Would multiple Jace, the Mind Sculptor activations in a turn be good? I dunno.
Preordain - Scry me a river.
Ponder - I'm a regular Michelangelo with all this hand sculpting.
Perilous Research - I'm not tired of drawing cards yet.
Boros Charm - Burn someone out, kill several walkers, or give multiple huge prowess monks or 4/4 angels double strike.
Role Reversal - Steal all the best things.
Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares - Kill 'em All! (except for ours, of course)

Last but not least, this thing recurs all of our token engines and goodstuff! I predict numerous victories via Underworld Breach > recur Impact Tremors and some engines > chain cantrips.

So, it's obviously good and a slam dunk inclusion. The question is what does it mean as far other changes in the deck? Should it swap out directly for Past in Flames, or should they both be in the list? They don't play nicely together, but they are so strong that it's hard to think of omitting either. If it comes down to just one though, I think Underworld Breach is the pick.

I think this leads me to some easy cuts once I get a copy of Breach: Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, and Mystic Retrieval work against it and will have to go.

However, what to include that plays nicely with Breach and the rest of our gameplan? That's a bit tougher. There are dozens of cards that synergize with it in Jeskai colors. Here's some lists we can start thinking about and discussing:

Going off with Underworld Breach + spirit mana + a full yard: Going off with Underworld Breach + a full yard: Options for getting cards into the graveyard: I recognize that there are some janky cards in those lists that almost assuredly won't make it anywhere near the cut, but I'd rather start by looking at a VERY broad range of cards and then narrow it down from there. The first subset we can probably eliminate from contention are the ones that are do-nothings if they don't have the exact setup provided by Underworld Breach and some other pieces. I will go through all of these with a finer tooth comb when I have time and follow up with a much narrower list of candidates, but I wanted to post the loooooong lists to get feedback from y'all :cool:

I will also say that Breach has me thinking a lot about Laboratory Maniac. Even without Breach I find that I churn through a lot of my deck. Adding Lab Man and something like Tome Scour or Burning Inquiry (copied with a Bonus Round or five perhaps?) + Underworld Breach seems good.

Well, that was a lot, but please let me know what you think!
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Pardon the double post, but I can't help but zero in on some combos that are popping out at me. Not sure how many, if any, are worth including, but I'd be remiss if I didn't consider them.

Assuming Underworld Breach and Kykar, Wind's Fury are in play, and I have at least three cards in the graveyard apart from the target spell, the following loop becomes available:

Escape/cast Lightning Bolt, sacrifice a spirit for , escape Lightning Bolt, repeat until I clear the board and make all the tokens I want, run out of cards to exile from my graveyard, or win.

Assuming Underworld Breach, Laboratory Maniac, and Kykar, Wind's Fury are in play, and I have at least three cards in the graveyard apart from the target spell, the following loops become available:

Escape/cast Burning Inquiry, sacrifice a spirit for , escape Burning Inquiry by exiling the three cards it had me discard previously, repeat until I mill opponents or my self for a Lab Man win. I can do the same with Goblin Lore, but it is not infinite and I could run out of mana before winning.

Escape/cast one of the below, sacrifice a spirit for if necessary, escape one of the below, repeat until I run out of blue mana or win via mill/Lab Man
Escape/cast Grinding Station OR have Magus of the Bazaar in play and not summoning sick, escape/cast Twiddle OR Dream's Grip OR Burst of Energy, repeat until I run out of blue/white mana or win via mill/Lab Man.

This is just the "win on the spot" stuff I could come up with at first analysis. If I just want to go the value route or enabling combat and mass card draw route via things like Shadow Rift, Expedite, and Defiant Strike there's almost no end to the possibilities.

Edit: Forget about Laboratory Maniac. If I go for this combo, I think the way to go is to change the cantrip suite to stuff like Thought Scour, Mental Note, and Careful Study so I have plenty of cards to escape before I resolve Underworld Breach. That way I can get the Burning Inquiry/Breach/Kykar loop going until I draw and discard Tome Scour or Compelling Argument. Then I escape one of those two spells a few times targeting my opponents until they have less cards in their libraries than I do, and then I continue the Inquiry loop :cool: If I go this direction, I'll need to keep Mystic Retrieval after all so I can get back Underworld Breach if I self mill it. Retrieval's flashback makes it so that I can get the Breach back even if I mill them both. nvm, I forgot breach is an enchantment for a second. Sevinne's Reclamation does the trick!
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Post by shermanido37 » 4 years ago

You guys did it and have convinced to build a deck of Kykar alongside my Ephara.
It'll take me a while to get the optimal cards, but here are some which I really think will pull their weight:

Dictate of Heliod - coolest combat trick ever. Along the same lines is Force of Virtue, except that card can be cast for free. Seems like a great option if you don't have Eldrazi Monument.
Helm of Possession - we have tiny replaceable tokens, opponents likely have giant scary creatures. What's not to like? Along the same lines, Sudden Substitution can swap our spirits for awesome noncreature spells, or swap useless cantrips of ours for opponents' giant creatures.
Opposition - another way of dealing with scary creatures by utilizing tiny tokens.
March of souls - a pet card of mine that I always wanted to play in a token deck, and here it even creates relevant tokens for Kykar! Oh baby.
Sword of the Animist - great way to utilize tokens to get a lot of Mana into play.

I'm also abusing the Frantic Search and Rewind mechanics with some cool lands. Dowsing Dagger and Primal Amulet look like they'll do great work.
I'll recommend Sephara again, as cheap wrath insurance that comes with a relevant body.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Welcome! The more the merrier!

There are lots of great anthems in all three colors to go in kykar along with dictate if you want to go an enchantress route. Don't forget Jeskai Ascendancy, Berserkers' Onslaught, Impact Tremors, Goblin Bombardment, and Kyren Negotiations if you're building around enchantments. Intruder Alarm as well if you really want to abuse Opposition and Kyren Negotiations.

Cultural Exchange is a fun one if you want more steal effects.

Sephara is sweet, but I don't think I can justify freeing a slot for her in my current build that's already bursting at the seems with cards to choose from. Non - spellslinger build though, absolutely.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Alrighty, I know I just made changes, but here's my initial thoughts on more changes I might make once the new set comes out (which may change if we get more goodies of course) :



13 cards is a significant rebuild, but I think Breach is worth it. Essentially with this new configuration I'd be playing with the yard a lot more looking to set up huge Breach or Past in Flames turns, made even better with Emergence Zone or Leyline. I think this setup could simultaneously advance the normal swarm gameplan while also setting me up for the Inquiry/Breach combo.

Thoughts?
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Post by Serenade » 4 years ago

What's your defense to GY removal?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
Welcome! The more the merrier!

There are lots of great anthems in all three colors to go in kykar along with dictate if you want to go an enchantress route. Don't forget Jeskai Ascendancy, Berserkers' Onslaught, Impact Tremors, Goblin Bombardment, and Kyren Negotiations if you're building around enchantments. Intruder Alarm as well if you really want to abuse Opposition and Kyren Negotiations.

Cultural Exchange is a fun one if you want more steal effects.

Sephara is sweet, but I don't think I can justify freeing a slot for her in my current build that's already bursting at the seems with cards to choose from. Non - spellslinger build though, absolutely.
There was a YouTube video (can't remember the name right now) that actually made an entire Kykar deck out of anthem spells.
Serenade wrote:
4 years ago
What's your defense to GY removal?
This deck doesn't really care too much about its graveyard. If it's there, great, and if not, we can still get a lot of velocity out of having dangerous permanents on the table that can snowball out of control.
Last edited by OCPunisher 4 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Silence effects and counter spells. The deck wouldn't absolutely require the yard to win, either. Swarm and tremors/bombardment are still available.

Edit: crosspost. This is a response to [mention]serenade[/mention]
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Well, we're nearing the end of Theros spoilers and I'm really not excited about much for Kykar except for Underworld Breach and Idyllic Tutor to go with it. That's ok though, because Breach is really going to be great for the deck unless I am badly mistaken.

The main reason I'm posting is to make a note of an interaction (or non-interaction, rather), mostly for myself so I don't forget :crazy: While Electrodominance does allow me to circumnavigate timing rules - for example I could cast Slaughter the Strong or Bonus Round off of Electrodominance on my opponent's turn if I wanted to, even though they are sorcery speed - it does NOT overrule the combat-step-only clause of Mandate of Peace. Here I was thinking that it did because one says "cast" but the other says "play" EDIT: they both say cast, I just can't read apparently. I'm glad I learned the easy way instead of the hard way, ie resolving Electrodominance for X=2 on an opponent's upkeep and playing Mandate of Peace for free only to have it be undone by the ruling.

I'm also starting to think about upgrades to the deck that I want to make over the long-term that will almost assuredly remain great even with new cards constantly coming out. Primarily I think this pertains to mana/ramp/fixing with the following: I really hate spending substantial $ on mana. I find lands and ramp/fixing to be the least exciting and fun cards, but the most essential, so it feels like a big dumb paywall just to play magic well. Ugh. Aaaaaaaanyhow, I'd like some feedback on what order you all think it would make the most sense to start picking these up in. I'm hoping for a Tarn/Mesa reprint in the Zendikar set later this year, and I don't think it's unreasonable for us to see Islet/Canyon/Signet in a commander set, but who knows if that would be this year or not. I'm a lot less optimistic about Vista/Passage/Gate/Talisman, but it is possible. Tithe is on the reserved list, and I think the cycle Sea of Clouds was part of will probably not see a reprint anytime soon, if ever.
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Post by shermanido37 » 4 years ago

Fiery Islet and Sunbaked Canyon are actually dirt cheap compared to their real worth right now, in my opinion. Horizon Canopy was at about 60$ IIRC before the mass reprints of it.
Same for the izzet filter, Cascade Bluffs. If you've looked at Mystic Gate you've seen how expensive filter lands get, and they are well worth their price.
Prismatic Vista and Fabled Passage, however, are two lands that are unlikely to ever be cheap to acquire, so prodigal they are not on my radar. I also think that the Sea of Clouds cycle of lands is overpriced and refuse to acquire it in principle.

Let me tell you that I think there is absolutely no chance for a fetchland reprint in Zendikar. Pioneer is a format that exists on the bottom of no fetchlands and it's doing exceedingly well. However, I do sniff a possibility of fetchland and talisman reprints in the upcoming Commander Draft set in the spring, and I'm pretty damn sure Arcane Signet -another card I refuse to acquire for now - will be there.
I can personally attest to the power of Tithe. Card single handedly makes risky hands keepable.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

I have the Izzet and Boros filters already, but don't want to get the azorius one unless it's price drops, especially since azorius comes with some "extra" lands compared to the other two guilds, like irrigated farmland and prairie stream.

I think talisman + signet + some other rock need to take the place of the three diamonds in my list, but I'm not settled on what the third should be. Felwar Stone and Thought Vessel curve me into T3 Kykar, but I wouldn't mind Chromatic Lantern as a single 3 cmc rock to smooth out mana issues. One bottleneck I sometimes hit is running out of white or blue mana, and lantern helps out big time.

Tithe is great, but it only fixes and I'm not sure what would come out for it. Also not sure if "pay $10+ to occasionally avoid a mulligan" is muy favorite proposition tbh.
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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

shermanido37 wrote:
4 years ago
Fiery Islet and Sunbaked Canyon are actually dirt cheap compared to their real worth right now, in my opinion. Horizon Canopy was at about 60$ IIRC before the mass reprints of it.
Same for the izzet filter, Cascade Bluffs. If you've looked at Mystic Gate you've seen how expensive filter lands get, and they are well worth their price.
Prismatic Vista and Fabled Passage, however, are two lands that are unlikely to ever be cheap to acquire, so prodigal they are not on my radar. I also think that the Sea of Clouds cycle of lands is overpriced and refuse to acquire it in principle.

Let me tell you that I think there is absolutely no chance for a fetchland reprint in Zendikar. Pioneer is a format that exists on the bottom of no fetchlands and it's doing exceedingly well. However, I do sniff a possibility of fetchland and talisman reprints in the upcoming Commander Draft set in the spring, and I'm pretty damn sure Arcane Signet -another card I refuse to acquire for now - will be there.
I can personally attest to the power of Tithe. Card single handedly makes risky hands keepable.
This is excellent analysis.
- Lands are always a good investment. They might not be sexy, but they open doors to new decks and make games more enjoyable with more consistent mana.
- All of the Canopy lands are dirt cheap right now and you should absolutely go out of your way to acquire four of each. Same goes for any filter land: $10 is a fantastic deal for a land that doesn't ETB tapped.
- Conversely, I pretty much assume that Prismatic Vista is just a figment of my imagination based on its price. Fabled Passage might become a reality once it rotates out of standard or gets reprinted nine more times, but until then I'll just stick to my OG fetches and the duals they find.
- I'm really hoping that Arcane Signet becomes the new Sol Ring in terms of being included in every commander product ever to get the price down. I'd probably buy it at $1-2, but not right now.
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Post by shermanido37 » 4 years ago

In Ephara I have plenty of ways to utilize its value.
Firstly since it's a 2 color deck, I have enough duals to ensure I can always fetch more with the card, and each dual is like a command tower. Secondly I can snap it for even more lands and cards in hand. Thirdly I have Forbid and Scroll Rack as a way to utilize all the cards I get from it. There's also Walking Atlas which is obviously powerful with a lot of lands in hand, and I really need to find a spot for it.

Chromatic Lantern is a must have in my opinion in any nongreen 3+ color deck. The consistency is real.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Well, with two strong opinions in favor of them, I'll prioritize getting fiery islet and sunbaked canyon asap. I'll probably also go ahead and swap out the three diamonds for felwar stone, thought vessel, and chromatic lantern, with the first two being placeholders until I upgrade to arcane signet and talisman of progress. Who knows when that will be. Sounds like next on the list is Mystic Gate... groan. Once a card hits the $20+ mark, I feel like it really needs to earn its keep, and I know filters technically do... but ugh...
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Just read an EDHRec article about our favorite Bird Wizard here. The decklist they posted is largely similar to mine, but in the differences I find a lot of generic "goodstuff" deckbuilding and not a lot of synergy and focused gameplan, which isn't my favorite. Still, it's worth a read. The best bit is where the author says something very similar to what I do in the OP of this thread about Kykar and how stinkin' flexible a commander this card is:
"I think my favorite aspect of Kykar, beyond his flow charts and figures, is his flexibility within the game itself. You don't have to pick a single lane during the deckbuilding process. You certainly can choose to, if it suits you; if you like Storm, throw all the Aetherflux Reservoirs and Thousand-Year Storms and Sentinel Towers into the deck as you like, and commit whole hog to that path. Or you can run the Favorable Winds and Intangible Virtues and lean completely into Jeskai: the Tokening. But you can also leave Kykar's door open just enough to allow all of these to coexist. Kykar can be built in such a way that you allow yourself room to switch tracks. Unable to attack with your tokens? Mizzix's Mastery a ton of spells for a huge blowout. Rule of Law preventing you from unleashing the Storm on your foes? The tokens are happy to help you punch your damage through."
I definitely agree with this and would say it's my favorite part of Kykar too! Piloting a spellslinger deck and token deck at the same time is a blast!
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

Spent some time today finishing more of the first post in the thread. I will wait for Theros to drop before I update the card discussion section, but after that it might just be ready for me to submit for primer status.

Feedback welcome and appreciated!
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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
Just read an EDHRec article about our favorite Bird Wizard here. The decklist they posted is largely similar to mine, but in the differences I find a lot of generic "goodstuff" deckbuilding and not a lot of synergy and focused gameplan, which isn't my favorite. Still, it's worth a read. The best bit is where the author says something very similar to what I do in the OP of this thread about Kykar and how stinkin' flexible a commander this card is:
"I think my favorite aspect of Kykar, beyond his flow charts and figures, is his flexibility within the game itself. You don't have to pick a single lane during the deckbuilding process. You certainly can choose to, if it suits you; if you like Storm, throw all the Aetherflux Reservoirs and Thousand-Year Storms and Sentinel Towers into the deck as you like, and commit whole hog to that path. Or you can run the Favorable Winds and Intangible Virtues and lean completely into Jeskai: the Tokening. But you can also leave Kykar's door open just enough to allow all of these to coexist. Kykar can be built in such a way that you allow yourself room to switch tracks. Unable to attack with your tokens? Mizzix's Mastery a ton of spells for a huge blowout. Rule of Law preventing you from unleashing the Storm on your foes? The tokens are happy to help you punch your damage through."
I definitely agree with this and would say it's my favorite part of Kykar too! Piloting a spellslinger deck and token deck at the same time is a blast!
I read that too! Kykar will always be the better choice vs Alela, but the article was a good read nonetheless.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

I don't know how I missed Heliod's Intervention until just now. Hmmm. . . it *could* be worth it. Instant speed, multiple targets, and an emergency lifegain mode, huzzah! "Destroy", and does nothing with Sunforger, boo! I think I'll pass for now, but I'm still going to get a copy since it may just end up being a white staple.

I keep looking over the spoilers in my spare moments and I just keep concluding that Underworld Breach and Idyllic Tutor are all I'm excited about for this deck. Am I missing something subtle, or even obvious for that matter? Omen of the Sea has the right idea, but isn't quite good enough. Stern Dismissal had me taking a second look, but I think I'm already running better removal even though for an instant is tempting.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

I got to play a fun game with my wife (Drana, Liberator of Malakir) and son (Gishath, Sun's Avatar) tonight! I can't remember all the details of a long game with multiple power swings in it, but I do remember the early game and sweetest highlights in detail:
Bird wizards and Dinos and Vampires, oh my!
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T1 → Terramorphic Expanse, fetch an Island
T2 → Fellwar StoneFaithless Looting
T3 → Kykar, Wind's Fury
T4 → Young PyromancerTelling TimeSilence on Drana's upkeep because she had gotten off to a tremendous start with Sol Ring and Mind Stone out on T1 and Drana, Liberator of Malakir out on T2. I think pumping the brakes for was appropriate, even though I would usually wait on Silence to secure the win or shut down an opposing combo.

This is the type of ideal start I look for. If I'm getting ready to untap for T5 and I've 1.) color fixed 2.) ramped 3.) filtered 4.) played Kykar early 5.) stuck a token engine 6.) triggered some token generation AAAND 7.) interacted with what my opponents are doing, then I am feeling GREAT. The deck has gotten consistent enough to hit 4-6 of these early game benchmarks almost every time and I'm loving it!

The mid-game is where I'm fuzzy on remembering all the details. Pyromancer was removed, so I replaced him with Murmuring Mystic and added Saheeli, Sublime Artificer a bit after that. Unfortunately, Gishath, Sun's Avatar punched through and flipped a pile of dinos which included Raging Swordtooth. That was not great at all for my medium sized token army, although Yahenni, Undying Partisan didn't mind at all.

I got into some sweet Sunforger action and searched up a timely Forsake the Worldly one turn, and Boros Charm another turn when a Thrashing Brontodon tried to destroy the forger. To be fair, I was threatening the third and final chunk of 7 commander damage at Gishath and his 7-8 dinos for my next turn, so I don't blame him for trying :cool:

After the charm saved the forger, Gishath smooth talked Drana and promised he wouldn't attack her next turn if she would nuke Kykar with Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet. I dug a little with some cantrips and found Eldrazi Monument which I hoped would somehow go unnoticed in my pre-combat main, but Drana knew what was up and pulled the trigger with Kalitas and I didn't get to kill Gishath, but rather got to look forward to facing down a herd of dinos (presumably the reason Drana wanted them kept around). Fortunately, I now had indestructible spirits and bird illusions alongside Murmuring Mystic, but UNfortunately Drana felt the need to kick a Blood Tribute pointed in my direction and bring her life total up to 45. Then on Gishath's turn I took a bunch of dino damage even after blocks going down to 1(!), but still had some play despite missing the last 2 or 3 land drops.

However, the final turn cycle was the sweetest one for the heroic jeskai token deck! I equipped Sunforger and had to pass with something like 5 blockers back and just a few mana open, prepared to forger up Counterflux for the Exsanguinate or Malakir Bloodwitch I thought must surely be coming.

Drana had her commander with several counters, a 20/20 or so Yahenni, and a Kalitas on board with a bunch of mana open. She dropped a Rogue's Passage which represented lethal toward either me or Gishath, but not both. She made the decision, wisely imo, to try to take me out and reduce Gishath to 2 life by making Kalitas unblockable and swinging him at me and the other two at Gishath. Fortunately, I had Path to Exile ready for Kalitas and Drana's shields were completely down.

Gishath had a similar choice of sending 42 damage on board toward Drana, me, or splitting it up between the two of us. He cast some dino that triggered Elemental Bond and drew into Charging Monstrosaur, which meant he now had enough to outright kill Drana in one huge swing. Knowing I almost surely had something up my sleeve with Sunforger (I was primed and ready to go get Mandate of Peace, he wisely chose to send everything at Drana and hoped to flip something game-winning/stabilizing/lifegaining with Gishath's trigger. I unattached sunforger planning to get Chaos Warp to get rid of Gishath and his trigger, which would unfortunately leave Drana alive at a low life total and risk warping into some big scary dino. I thought it was worth it and figured I could take out both of them with my next combat unless Chaos Warp hit exactly Burning Sun's Avatar or Verdant Sun's Avatar. . . but then while I was searching my library for Chaos Warp I saw Mirrorweave. . . LULZ! I still had never resolved this thing and realized that I could just turn everything into Thundering Spineback with it, so I did! The dino gang smacked Drana for 96 damage and 0 Gishath triggers. From there it was just a matter of untapping for the turn and attacking with 3 Bird Illusions :cool:
Takeaways:

-10/10 would recommend winning with your life total at 1. It feels good.
-10/10 would recommend playing EDH with an 8 year old piloting a dinosaur deck. The unbridled joy on my boy's face when he flipped over so many big dumb dinos was priceless.
-Sometimes playing with Sunforger just feels like cheating. . .
-I still haven't resolved it, but I think Mandate of Peace was a significant upgrade for the deck. Just having it available as part of the forger package made me feel a lot more secure.
-God bless all the individuals that recommended Mirrorweave. That was stupid and fun.
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Post by OCPunisher » 4 years ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
I keep looking over the spoilers in my spare moments and I just keep concluding that Underworld Breach and Idyllic Tutor are all I'm excited about for this deck.
I must've misread the escape mechanic at first, because I assumed that it only worked once, the way Snapcaster Mage and other more traditional effects of this type work. Given the low casting cost and the ability to repeatedly cast something out of the yard, I'm much more inclined to try this one out.

Not interested in Idyllic Tutor over the one mana options.

You should probably send that game recap to Sheldon and the Rules Committee as a reminder of exactly why we play this format. It's a great reminder of the delicate balance between the casual and competitive sides of the format. Now I'm itching to play Mirrorweave.
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Post by MeowZeDung » 4 years ago

OCPunisher wrote:
4 years ago
MeowZeDung wrote:
4 years ago
I keep looking over the spoilers in my spare moments and I just keep concluding that Underworld Breach and Idyllic Tutor are all I'm excited about for this deck.
I must've misread the escape mechanic at first, because I assumed that it only worked once, the way Snapcaster Mage and other more traditional effects of this type work. Given the low casting cost and the ability to repeatedly cast something out of the yard, I'm much more inclined to try this one out.

Not interested in Idyllic Tutor over the one mana options.

You should probably send that game recap to Sheldon and the Rules Committee as a reminder of exactly why we play this format. It's a great reminder of the delicate balance between the casual and competitive sides of the format. Now I'm itching to play Mirrorweave.
I probably wouldn't even consider Breach if escape was single use, it would just be a much worse past in flames. The fact that I run tons of cheap spells means I'll be escaping multiple spells or one spell multiple times even when not comboing.

Idyllic isn't the best tutor, but I don't own enlightened, mystical won't get breach for the combo (or jeskai ascendancy, Goblin Bombardment, Impact Tremors for other paths to victory), and gamble has an obvious drawback but will remain in the deck.

It was a truly sweet game and I'm itching to play mirrorweave more :cool:
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