[ELD] Drown in the Loch (Carlos Romao)

[Rumpy5897]

[Dusk]

As a mill player this has my interest.

[pierreb]

Counter and removal rolled into one? That seems a control dream card.

It does nothing early, but is powerful in the mid-/lat game.

Edit: I wish the art had more contrast to it. It's a bit too muddy, I'dprefer if it had a bit more punch.

[lookingupanddown]

Wonder if this is worth playing in fetchland-heavy Modern. Definitely worth testing.

[The Fluff]

this looks good. With creepy disturbing art as well.

[CommanderMaster999]

Definatly testable in modern with the fetchlands and you usually need them to get to q-3 cards in the yard (except for tron)

[The N82O Molecule]

here is what I want to do with this card in hand

me: play a island
them: fetch land, fetch
me: archive trap
me: play a swamp, pass

end scene

[Dusk]

here is what I want to do with this card in hand

me: play a island
them: fetch land, fetch
me: archive trap
me: play a swamp, pass

end scene

I can't wait to do that to people

[pierreb]

here is what I want to do with this card in hand

me: play a island
them: fetch land, fetch
me: archive trap
me: play a swamp, pass

end scene

Main problem is that archive trap does nothing for you except enable this other card. I guess you can play a playset of surgical extraction and try to destroy their game plan...

[Taleran]

Can you respond to this being on the Stack by Delving a Dig Through Time to counter it?

[Dusk]

Can you respond to this being on the Stack by Delving a Dig Through Time to counter it?

It wouldn't counter it, just make it less effective. So anything that removes cards from the graveyard makes this worse

[Wallycaine]

Can you respond to this being on the Stack by Delving a Dig Through Time to counter it?

It wouldn't counter it, just make it less effective. So anything that removes cards from the graveyard makes this worse

It could counter it, assuming that you can delve enough to make the target illegal. Granted, it would technically get countered by the game rules, but that's a distinction without a difference (the majority of the time). But yes, you can prevent Drown in the Loch from killing/countering something by removing the cards from your graveyard before it resolves. It will check target legality twice, once when it is initially cast, and once when it resolves. This does mean that if you Delve, you opponent also gets a chance to respond and try to get cards in your yard.

[Hawk]

This seems good. Ghastly Demise saw some fringe play in its day and sees occasional pauper play now. Generally speaking hitting CMC instead of Power/Toughness is a better deal - it means you can always blow up tokens even against an empty 'yard, and can blow up things that are enchanted/equipped (VERY relevant in this incoming standard).

Keying off OPPOSING graveyards is interesting and different as you have less control over it, and that means that this can probably never be a 4-of as you can't rely on it by itself outside of a mill deck. But I can see this as a 1 or 2-of in whatever BUx control lists exist post-rotation.

[Mookie]

This card seems pretty meh in a vacuum to me, because you usually won't have that much control over your opponent's graveyard. It could be good lategame, but I want my removal and countermagic to be less conditional. It might see play as a 2-of in some slower control decks in Standard that expect the game to go long, but I wouldn't play that many more of these.

If you have a lot of support for it because you're playing a mill deck, this becomes more attractive. I'm not familiar enough with mill decks in Modern or Standard to know whether they would want this - my main concern would be that it isn't a mill spell itself, but it may have enough power to justify its inclusion.

As for EDH.... there are enough unconditional counterspells and unconditional removal that I don't think I would consider it for most decks, but I'm sure people will still test it in mill decks.

[OuttaControl]

As a modern midrange player (in particular, a Sultai midrange player) this card excites me very much. Just eyeballing the meta, about 60-70% of archetypes use fetches, and many decks have early interaction that causes their graveyard to fill up quickly. Midrange decks can also force cards into the opponent's graveyard with Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Thought Scour in the early game.

What I'm very excited about is how this card solves one of midrange's biggest problems: drawing the wrong half of your deck against the wrong opponent (ex: drawing removal against storm, or drawing discard vs. Humans). This card interacts with cards in the opponent's hand as well as what's already on the battlefield. Also, a 2-mana maindeckable counter spell would be a first for midrange and greatly increase it's potential.

I realize that this is a bold prediction, but I predict for modern, Drown in the Loch will be as powerful as Assassin's Trophy due to it's low mana cost, easy condition to meet and play around, and versatility as a hard counter and hard removal spell. We haven't seen these powerful modal effects before on one playable spell before, and it's exactly what the midrange/control decks needed.

[The N82O Molecule]

this card doesn't solve any mill issues, its just coincidental that mill super powers the effects.

I think this card is strong though, and hope that we see "opponent graveyard threshold" as a way to downcost cards. it reads beautifully in blue black