[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)
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Been thinking about what to do about modern, and I just can't come up with much. The mh2 domination is something we will have to live with.
As for fixing the format, I don't see pairs and single bans doing anything. They have made the format more interactive, of course, but in doing so have created a huge gap between the top 5 decks and the next 20, and a chasm between homebrews and real decks.
The power level of modern is huge, but the traditional safety valves of Legacy are fewer.
I think the ability to attack mana is really missing in Modern, when you see 4c decks running blood moon on the board, you know something fishy is going on. Simply put, if you have access to all the best cards and smooth mana your deck will be top tier baring egregious nonsense like underworld breach in Legacy, or in modern, Murktide. Legacy has wasteland, and can ritual or sol land out a t1 trinisphere or opposition agent. Modern lacks that stuff to slow games to a crawl. In 12 years of modern 5/5 dudes with drawbacks became 6/6s with huge upsides, yet suppression field has seen no improvements.
Murktide is interesting- and ragavan probably sticks out across the format as a card that was a mistake. But it would take w6, ragavan, murktide, and others to bring the format to earth.
As for fixing the format, I don't see pairs and single bans doing anything. They have made the format more interactive, of course, but in doing so have created a huge gap between the top 5 decks and the next 20, and a chasm between homebrews and real decks.
The power level of modern is huge, but the traditional safety valves of Legacy are fewer.
I think the ability to attack mana is really missing in Modern, when you see 4c decks running blood moon on the board, you know something fishy is going on. Simply put, if you have access to all the best cards and smooth mana your deck will be top tier baring egregious nonsense like underworld breach in Legacy, or in modern, Murktide. Legacy has wasteland, and can ritual or sol land out a t1 trinisphere or opposition agent. Modern lacks that stuff to slow games to a crawl. In 12 years of modern 5/5 dudes with drawbacks became 6/6s with huge upsides, yet suppression field has seen no improvements.
Murktide is interesting- and ragavan probably sticks out across the format as a card that was a mistake. But it would take w6, ragavan, murktide, and others to bring the format to earth.
No, it isn't, No RL would be a grim format.
The RL has some beautiful Legacy cards like Tabernacle that make Legacy tick. Removing them would make the format a pale knock off.
Far better for Legacy to enjoy Force of Will and Modern to get Force of Negation, maintaining distinct identities.
No RL Legacy is just a hollowed out shadow land.
The RL has some beautiful Legacy cards like Tabernacle that make Legacy tick. Removing them would make the format a pale knock off.
Far better for Legacy to enjoy Force of Will and Modern to get Force of Negation, maintaining distinct identities.
No RL Legacy is just a hollowed out shadow land.
I'm in favor of reprinting reserve list cards but nevermind legacy, even modern is in trouble. Of the 2 card stores near me, the one hasn't fired a modern tournament in over a year. Edh is doing good, and online pokemon card sales are good, and that's about it. Furthermore, managers tell me the playerbase began eroding after the faithless looting ban.
- motleyslayer
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I'd say modern is still by far the most popular tournament format. EDH is still super popular by nature, but modern sees a lot of interest. I guess there aren't a lot of people going to modern RCQs from my area, but people will go to modern FNM in large numbers. We'll also see multiple cars going to Face to Face Opens in Toronto
- motleyslayer
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I'm hoping a W6 or Omnath ban. I would even take an errata on evoke so you can't blink the elementals
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Id be happy with an omnath ban and a companion ban/errata while keeping wren and six and expressive iteration, but anything could happen tomorrow. Hopefully, they just unban multiple cards. Id prefer to see how the 4color decks evolve without Omnath more than anything though,
Oh boy, Yorion is banned.
Enough? Not enough?
In a way I get the argument Wizards are making that the meta game is diverse when you look at the different decks and the top of the meta decks have a fairly low overall percentage of the meta. But at the same time, is it really in a good state when the top meta decks are pretty much all the same modern horizon cards in some variation?
When I got back into Magic, I used to look at modern decks and think it was funny and a bit cool when a new card was actually good enough to be used in modern. But now I look at decks and see what old cards are good enough to still be viable if you want to not get annihilated. I'm like "oh cool and old card!"
Enough? Not enough?
In a way I get the argument Wizards are making that the meta game is diverse when you look at the different decks and the top of the meta decks have a fairly low overall percentage of the meta. But at the same time, is it really in a good state when the top meta decks are pretty much all the same modern horizon cards in some variation?
When I got back into Magic, I used to look at modern decks and think it was funny and a bit cool when a new card was actually good enough to be used in modern. But now I look at decks and see what old cards are good enough to still be viable if you want to not get annihilated. I'm like "oh cool and old card!"
- motleyslayer
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Yorion, Sky Nomad being banned wasn't what I was expecting and probably just isn't enough. I feel Omnath and/or W6 being banned would have been better. Omnath was a bigger payoff and W6 enabled the deck to be efficient. Maybe I just really hate being able to go Omnath on t5, play a fetch and sac t to play another elemental
Banning Yorion is the smallest step they could take to nerf 4/5c soup. Good thing is the deck is on their radar. W6 is unsustainable. The more cards are released, the better he gets because he glues all the best cards into 1 pile. I feel like they will ban Omnath before banning W6 though.
Problems yet to be solved:
- Elemental + undying/flicker effects
- Omnath
- W6
- Ragavan
- UR (Expressive Iteration)
The best way to deal with the elementals is to errata them like they did with Mox Diamond back in its day. If W6 goes, then Omnath is probably safe to stay. Expressive Iteration will see a ban and Ragavan, well I like what he does for the format. He forces interaction but it is too punishing when unanswered, They should ban it and release a nerfed version and compensate everyone. You can send your Ragavan to receive a new copy.
Problems yet to be solved:
- Elemental + undying/flicker effects
- Omnath
- W6
- Ragavan
- UR (Expressive Iteration)
The best way to deal with the elementals is to errata them like they did with Mox Diamond back in its day. If W6 goes, then Omnath is probably safe to stay. Expressive Iteration will see a ban and Ragavan, well I like what he does for the format. He forces interaction but it is too punishing when unanswered, They should ban it and release a nerfed version and compensate everyone. You can send your Ragavan to receive a new copy.
- motleyslayer
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I feel that the easiest way to prevent people from abusing the evoke costs of the elementals is an errata of evoke to have to sac them as they etb rather then when they etb. That way you can't flicker them/use undying effects
It's super hard to compensate people for having their decks banned logistically. You'd have to figure out who had them, what is an acceptable amount of time frame to have bought them within and how to get them the money, let alone how much. With arena, its super easy to just give the wildcards back as a wild card always has the same value
It's super hard to compensate people for having their decks banned logistically. You'd have to figure out who had them, what is an acceptable amount of time frame to have bought them within and how to get them the money, let alone how much. With arena, its super easy to just give the wildcards back as a wild card always has the same value
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The Fluff Le fou, c'est moi
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what a surprise.. I come back here after awhile, and now Yorion is banned. 5 cmc creature too strong now?
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // Clearing 4 domain with Qiqi
want to play a control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread
Free 5 cmc creature. Doesn't cost you a card.
Was not surprised that they banned yorion, obviously the wrong ban on a cheap card.
EI has not gone in Legacy, where it is beyond ban worthy in a Brainstorm Ponder Murktide Drc world (citing Leyline binding as a reason for no ban was especially obnoxious as it is nearly unplayed). W6 and Ragavan are expensive, less likely to eat a ban in Modern than cards like Yorion and EI
Soup needed a ban, but Yorion helps a bit.
At least they did
Was not surprised that they banned yorion, obviously the wrong ban on a cheap card.
EI has not gone in Legacy, where it is beyond ban worthy in a Brainstorm Ponder Murktide Drc world (citing Leyline binding as a reason for no ban was especially obnoxious as it is nearly unplayed). W6 and Ragavan are expensive, less likely to eat a ban in Modern than cards like Yorion and EI
Soup needed a ban, but Yorion helps a bit.
At least they did
- motleyslayer
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I feel 2 huge problems with modern right now are the triomes being fetchable and how evoke works as a mechanic. The fact that you can use any blink type effect (counting the black effects that can get them back as well) with the sac from evoke on the stack is really good. Triomes make 4c good stuff piles also super easy now
Triomes are low-key a problem. On the surface they look bad, coming in tapped and the cycling being so overcosted. But they're a ramped up version of the amonkhet cycle lands. And they can be fetched on a turn where you don't need the untapped land, minimizing the impact of coming in tapped.
- motleyslayer
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the etb tapped aspect of triomes isn't actually that bad because of the fact you can just fetch when you don't need the mana. Abundant Growth really minimizes the impact of their etb tapped
No worries with Triomes, but evoke and blink is annoying in a world where there is very little counter play to it. Countering, and killing in response, which need mana open, and torpor orb effects which are not main deckable. The format could really do with a Humilty......
- motleyslayer
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yeah a big problem with the evoke elementals is playing around when they can blink it/play an Undying Malice type effect. Especially with a Grief because they can either take your counter or removal or play the spell to get it back in response