[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 3 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
went 1-2 drop. I could really tell I hadn't been on MTGO in months as I was awful at clock management and clicking through everything.

In regards to the Omnath deck, I definitely didn't understand this type of deck but it still feels really good, It seems like one of those decks where you can just steamroll wins due to the sheer power of the deck without playing well. My win was against Bant stoneblade and I got really ahead. I lost to tron 0-2because of not being able to interact with their plan g1 and probably would have benefited from paying attention to what lands they revealed g2. R3 lost the mirror 1-2, the games I lost were because I couldn't find out how to claw back into it.

Again, I guess my final thoughts are the deck seems like it can just win through snowballing advantage through a lot of the good cards from the past 2 years
At least you had the guts to go out and try. Seems like some tough things happened. I didn't even know that Tron still existed in Modern. I was curious if E Tron still exists?

Who knows? You may have won the rest. So maybe the deck was still very good; too good in fact?
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

I'm not the best one to ask about E Tron existing anymore, I haven't played modern on mtgo much at all except for that one event. It was an fnm event hosted by a store not far from me, so that one instance of it could have been someone playing it either because they actually owned it online or they just knew it the best.

I probably could have played better that night but I'm still glad I played the deck. I actually enjoyed it even though it's kinda mostly the best rare and mythic cards from the past 2 years

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 years ago

As a side note, I was perusing MTGGoldfish just now, and outside of Uro decks, this seems to be one of the cheapest eras Modern has ever seen. Using the top decks on the Meta page...

Uro decks avg cost: $1,230
Non-Uro Decks avg cost: $694

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Post by Albegas » 3 years ago

I have to wonder how much of that is driven by a lack of demand for physical cards. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I'll be (pleasantly) shocked if the US is having IRL tournaments come June or July. I don't know how quickly COVID affected demand for physical cards initially, but after roughly 9+ months of shutting down IRL tourneys, there must be some sort of toll on demand. This is entirely speculation, so I'd genuinely love to be corrected, but everything I know about economics leads me to believe that anything that isn't a Commander staple or a low supply Commander champ is being kept cheaper by COVID, and the second WotC reopens IRL tourneys, we'll see a noticeable spike in paper prices.

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 years ago

Albegas wrote:
3 years ago
I have to wonder how much of that is driven by a lack of demand for physical cards. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I'll be (pleasantly) shocked if the US is having IRL tournaments come June or July. I don't know how quickly COVID affected demand for physical cards initially, but after roughly 9+ months of shutting down IRL tourneys, there must be some sort of toll on demand. This is entirely speculation, so I'd genuinely love to be corrected, but everything I know about economics leads me to believe that anything that isn't a Commander staple or a low supply Commander champ is being kept cheaper by COVID, and the second WotC reopens IRL tourneys, we'll see a noticeable spike in paper prices.
I think that's a big part, but also just... no one seems to care about Modern. There's random MTGO challenges, but literally nothing else. No live tournaments, no commentary, nothing to digest and consume, no hype, no support. A few random streamers with a couple hundred followers randomly jamming Leagues. And that's about it. How the mighty have fallen.

Whenever we do get back to normal, I figure Modern will be so warped and changed by whatever new nonsense is coming (and likely a ban of something from the Uro decks) that it's terrifying to buy into anything in paper. Like you said, a lot of people are buying into Commander (myself included), but I haven't touched anything remotely Modern-related since well before COVID. lol.

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

I feel that lack of interest in modern is a huge thing. The format has felt bad for so long that even the most die hard modern players are starting to lose interest in the format. There has been so many cards that are just absurd such as field, Uro and now Omnath as well. Not to mention cards before that and all the bans previously. I mean lack of ability to play paper magic has an affect on prices for sure but the format seems to be in a tough spot for sure

Once covid is controlled and we can return to paper, I think Wizards will have to do something to restore interest in the format (pioneer too, because that format fell from grace fast. But that's a whole different discussion, in a different place)

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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

I expect once we start seeing paper event again we might see a shift or ban to the Uro decks. 90% of Uro's existence has been since covid has been in full swing. I feel once we get more populace and data from paper events, Uro might be in trouble.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 years ago

For risk of furthering the "Boomer" meme, "I don't even recognize Modern anymore." With so. many. busted. cards. coming out in the past two years, there have been so many fundamental shifts that it was just exhausting to keep up with. Couple that with the removal of GP/SCG coverage pre-COVID, COVID itself, and the issues with bannings. Like, not just bannings after bannings, but long periods where something SHOULD have been banned, and wasn't. Then several things banned. Then this constant unease about "what's going to be banned next?" It's just exhausting. And as someone who has been loving this Uro/Omnath deck, I definitely live with that fear of "when is it going to be banned? And which card are they going to hit?"

As a quick trip down memory lane, I went and looked up everything banned in Modern since 2019...
KCI, Bridge from Below, Hogaak, Faithless Looting, Oko, Mox Opal, Mycosynth Lattice, Once Upon A Time, and Arcum's Astrolabe, and effectively ALL companions via errata.

In that same time frame, multiple "Modern Staples" have been banned in multiple other formats: Field of the Dead, T3feri, Uro, Omnath, add Wrenn and Six (banned in Legacy), and you literally have all the key cards in the deck I'm playing right now. This is to say nothing of the complete destruction of the ALL top Pioneer Decks at one point (hey, remember Pioneer???) in banning Kethis, Inverter, Breach, and Walking Ballista in one fell swoop.

It's so breathtakingly hard to be motivated to spend any money on this game anymore. Which feels SUPER weird and SUPER depressing, considering Hasbro has repeatedly said how last year was the most profitable they have ever seen Magic. :woozy: :sweat: :explode:

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Post by The Fluff » 3 years ago

Uro still "protected" by corona, so the titan has no fear of ban.
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Post by drmarkb » 3 years ago

Albegas wrote:
3 years ago
I have to wonder how much of that is driven by a lack of demand for physical cards. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I'll be (pleasantly) shocked if the US is having IRL tournaments come June or July. I don't know how quickly COVID affected demand for physical cards initially, but after roughly 9+ months of shutting down IRL tourneys, there must be some sort of toll on demand. This is entirely speculation, so I'd genuinely love to be corrected, but everything I know about economics leads me to believe that anything that isn't a Commander staple or a low supply Commander champ is being kept cheaper by COVID, and the second WotC reopens IRL tourneys, we'll see a noticeable spike in paper prices.

As an inhabitant of finance circles, I can confirm that the demand for physical cards has shot up. No two ways about it - it is at an all time high, prices are sky rocketing in a way that is truly terrifying, thrilling and unprecedented. Now this might come as a shock to many here, but it is truth. Beyond truth. I mean I could show everyone the graphs, but there would be no point, we are talking gains thousands upon thousands, just head onto the finance sites and look around.

Cradle, Mox d, Dual lands (real ones), Tabernacle, Moat, Gilded Drake, Nether Void, The Abyss, Eureka, Chains, original Moxen, the remaining power nine, Sanctum, Workshop, Bazar, need I go on. Not just the reserved list cards, either. Add to that original printings of Sylvan, City of Brass, Mishra's factory and you get the drift. Beta is quietly going berserk while your modern collections plummet. This is the most overheated physical MTG economy I have ever seen, and I have been at it a while. I don't want to sound like the infamous Rudy, but your Japanese limited edition planeswalker double arseholed extended art foil etched with an artists finger still attached to it? Worth the square root of sod all, people. You were had. Mugged. You bought your collectors boxes on release- congrats- the toilet is over there and you just flushed away hundreds you could have saved by buying singles. In five years, your cards won't be worth much either. Today's mtg is designed for snowballing games of EDH. The cachet of old school art or whatever won't apply to today's mass produced low quality card stock product, and likely never will..


The thing is, Modern is cheap because nobody, but nobody, sees the cards as going up, and people are worried- the format has enforced rotation, and people can see Pioneer and Modern in competition post Covid, they don't know which will win, or if both can coexist. Anyone with hopes that Modern will be the next Legacy and Legacy becomes vintage is seriously deluded. Legacy won't go anywhere. Its player like it and they make money holding onto the cards. Meanwhile holding on to your £40 bobs and another printing will see them hit 10. They see reprinted staples nerfed frequently, and obsolescence kicks in with every new Uro, and the few rare reprints that really hold prices or created more demand (the original masters set Tammy effect) are EDH/Legacy staples Force of Will. Modern is truly horrible to have money in- the core sets inevitably add in some good old cards year on year, slashing prices, and rotation . Nobody is playing physical modern, and we do not know if Modern prices will recover or be nerfed to be as cheap as Pioneer. People are webcamming commander because as a "casual" format, cheating is not an issue in friendly playgroups. Ditto Legacy has some paper discord Legacy being jammed because people like the format and it is often played low stakes as a community format. Modern has always been a competitive format with expensive cards. Demand is low so Modern prices are low- great to buy in, but if you need to keep shelling out to make decks competitive, and if depreciation of staples continues, it makes it a financial millstone.
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Post by Simto » 3 years ago

All that said, I sure miss playing modern FNM :(

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Post by Tzoulis » 3 years ago

Ulka wrote:
3 years ago
I expect once we start seeing paper event again we might see a shift or ban to the Uro decks. 90% of Uro's existence has been since covid has been in full swing. I feel once we get more populace and data from paper events, Uro might be in trouble.
The Fluff wrote:
3 years ago
Uro still "protected" by corona, so the titan has no fear of ban.
Field of the Dead is a major problem that drives off other Midrange/Control decks, not Uro from everything I've seen. When 5C Niv lists are using Golos + FotD, you know something's wrong. Despite the hate Uro generates - understandable don't get me wrong, with how efficient and fast aggro decks are it's the only way for control to keep up, while FotD helps them laugh at the midrange and mirror matchups. UW is fine, hell UW Spirits is awesome atm, but they can't keep up with FotD specifically.
Simto wrote:
3 years ago
All that said, I sure miss playing modern FNM :(
I think I'm approaching a full year of not attending an MtG paper tournament. :(

I wanna brew with the Kaldheim angels, but I don't see the point since we'll be probably opening up in summer.

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Post by drmarkb » 3 years ago

Simto wrote:
3 years ago
All that said, I sure miss playing modern FNM :(
Who doesn't...?
Sadly most of my local modern fnms were on the way out prior to the pandemic......might get the odd one firing. One store here has a legacy/standard/commander split, with modern pushed out to Thursdays by pioneer, another standard/draft/modern and yet another commander/commander/whatever you can get to fire as a casual, which has been pioneer as often as legacy as often as modern.
They all do big pre-release weekends too.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 3 years ago

Tzoulis wrote:
3 years ago
I think I'm approaching a full year of not attending an MtG paper tournament. :(
My last tournament was March 12, 2020, so I'm coming up on it in a bit over a month as well.

I have played some Cube and Modern at friend's houses though.
drmarkb wrote:
3 years ago
Simto wrote:
3 years ago
All that said, I sure miss playing modern FNM :(
Who doesn't...?
Sadly most of my local modern fnms were on the way out prior to the pandemic......might get the odd one firing. One store here has a legacy/standard/commander split, with modern pushed out to Thursdays by pioneer, another standard/draft/modern and yet another commander/commander/whatever you can get to fire as a casual, which has been pioneer as often as legacy as often as modern.
They all do big pre-release weekends too.
I did ... so much too.

But I feel like I have lost that will to compete in Magic. It's also been somewhat depressing seeing the collection I sold increase $8K over the past 5 months. Some prices, especially reserve list, are EXPLODING right now. This may be the situation that people talked about where the prices are unsustainable and it comes to a halt all of a sudden? Cooped up people are just stocking up on cardboard right now.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 years ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
3 years ago
Tzoulis wrote:
3 years ago
I think I'm approaching a full year of not attending an MtG paper tournament. :(
My last tournament was March 12, 2020, so I'm coming up on it in a bit over a month as well.
I don't know when mine was, and since DCI numbers are no longer a thing, I can't even go back and check... :please:

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 3 years ago

cfusionpm wrote:
3 years ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
3 years ago
Tzoulis wrote:
3 years ago
I think I'm approaching a full year of not attending an MtG paper tournament. :(
My last tournament was March 12, 2020, so I'm coming up on it in a bit over a month as well.
I don't know when mine was, and since DCI numbers are no longer a thing, I can't even go back and check... :please:
Yeah, honestly that was one of the changes that there was literally 0 upside to doing (AFAIK). I'm really not sure why they did that.

That being said, my tournament was very easy to remember for several reasons. My mtg friends told me that the Coronavirus is real and that I was risking many lives by going to the tournament. But I believed the politicians who made it look not so serious. Only nowadays, do I really know how dumb I was to go to that tournament.

Then the other reason I remember the tournament was that I ran Elementals. I was 3-0 (2-0 vs. 2 very good competitors) at the time in Round 4, but E Tron wiped the floor with me (normally an easy matchup) to put me at 3-1. In Round 5, a Jund player at 4-0 had a chance to knock me out and potentially get his teammate in. He wrecked me in game 1, but after taking a vicious hit on turn 5 in Game 2, I swung back for 18 exact lethal damage. He was pretty surprised, but I also then eeked my way through the final game, thanks to 2 Risen Reef drawn after he made me discard my first one on turn 1. Then I beat the E Tron player from earlier and split the 4 Scalding Tarn with the Dice Factory player who I beat in Round 2. Two Scalding Tarns were enough reason for me to go to this tournament. Fun times. :grin:
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Amulet, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by Aazadan » 3 years ago

cfusionpm wrote:
3 years ago
As a side note, I was perusing MTGGoldfish just now, and outside of Uro decks, this seems to be one of the cheapest eras Modern has ever seen. Using the top decks on the Meta page...

Uro decks avg cost: $1,230
Non-Uro Decks avg cost: $694
I just ordered some paper cards recently. I honestly do not understand the paper market anymore, nothing was priced like what I was expecting. It's not that all cards are down, just the opposite. A ton of cards have gone way up, including some new ones and some old ones. But, what I would expect a card to be worth, and what it is worth is considerably off. Nothing is in the ballpark of what it used to be.
motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
I feel that lack of interest in modern is a huge thing. The format has felt bad for so long that even the most die hard modern players are starting to lose interest in the format. There has been so many cards that are just absurd such as field, Uro and now Omnath as well. Not to mention cards before that and all the bans previously. I mean lack of ability to play paper magic has an affect on prices for sure but the format seems to be in a tough spot for sure
The format looks different but it seems balanced. You've got a few pillars right now, Omnath is the best deck but not by a huge stretch. Other than Omnath, you've got Uro decks (yes, Omnath plays Uro too, but it's easily replaceable there rather than a core part of the strat), and you've got field of the dead decks, shadow decks, and red or red/black aggro decks, plus humans. Then there's old standbys like humans and tron which are still good.

Aggro, combo, control, and midrange are all current represented as viable decks. There's a few highly played pillar cards like Mystic Sanctuary, but while the cards have shifted, it feels like it's got similar diversity to the days of Twin, Pod, Delver, Jund, and so on being on top. I mean, even Cruel Ultimatum is playable right now.

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

I'd probably like the format a lot more without Uro in it but other than that I don't think I'd change much else (except for maybe dryad, I don't really like that card). The titan/field decks don't bother me much but maybe I'm in the minority for that. I kinda like seeing the random titan decks tbh

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 years ago

I almost feel like Field of the Dead is a bigger problem than Uro. Like, Uro is dumb, but what makes the Uro decks powerful is the lands/Zombies backup plans. Primeval Titan also abuses it. And I'm curious how (relatively) strong either Titan would remain without the pesky land.

Either way, I'll likely be cashing out my mtgo acct soon. Almost all my money is in Uro Omnath. I'm just too fearful to be left holding the bag when something is eventually banned, and I just am not playing enough to justify keeping $1700 worth of digital cards.

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Post by Aazadan » 3 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
I'd probably like the format a lot more without Uro in it but other than that I don't think I'd change much else (except for maybe dryad, I don't really like that card). The titan/field decks don't bother me much but maybe I'm in the minority for that. I kinda like seeing the random titan decks tbh
From what I've seen watching streams, I'm not actually convinced cutting Uro would increase diversity. I do think the card is unfun and oppressive, as hard to interact with snowball mechanics frequently are, but I think it's holding a lot of the format up right now. I'm not sure if it's because the meta is less competitive so we're not seeing the cracks, or if it's "balanced", but it seems to have a decent amount of diversity and archetype representation right now.

There's a few major pillars in the format, and a good deck needs to be doing one or more of them. When you start knocking those pillars down a format can collapse. Uro, Omnath, Field, Teferi, Mystic Sanctary are what I think those pillars are in Modern at the moment. A deck doesn't have to do one of them, but most good decks are doing at least one of them.
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 years ago

cfusionpm wrote:
3 years ago
I almost feel like Field of the Dead is a bigger problem than Uro. Like, Uro is dumb, but what makes the Uro decks powerful is the lands/Zombies backup plans. Primeval Titan also abuses it. And I'm curious how (relatively) strong either Titan would remain without the pesky land.

Either way, I'll likely be cashing out my mtgo acct soon. Almost all my money is in Uro Omnath. I'm just too fearful to be left holding the bag when something is eventually banned, and I just am not playing enough to justify keeping $1700 worth of digital cards.
I feel that titan wouldn't be able to have such absurd value engines late game or be able to just easily build gross board states or recover as well without field.

I can't blame you for not wanting 4c omnath in its current state rn though, deck seems like a ban waiting to happen
Aazadan wrote:
3 years ago
motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
I'd probably like the format a lot more without Uro in it but other than that I don't think I'd change much else (except for maybe dryad, I don't really like that card). The titan/field decks don't bother me much but maybe I'm in the minority for that. I kinda like seeing the random titan decks tbh
From what I've seen watching streams, I'm not actually convinced cutting Uro would increase diversity. I do think the card is unfun and oppressive, as hard to interact with snowball mechanics frequently are, but I think it's holding a lot of the format up right now. I'm not sure if it's because the meta is less competitive so we're not seeing the cracks, or if it's "balanced", but it seems to have a decent amount of diversity and archetype representation right now.
I can definitely understand that but I think that just getting rid of uro (maybe field too) would be a good way to see what else is actually a problem. But I guess that has its own problems

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Post by Aazadan » 3 years ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 years ago
I can definitely understand that but I think that just getting rid of uro (maybe field too) would be a good way to see what else is actually a problem. But I guess that has its own problems
See my edit. The last time Modern got burned to the ground, what rose back up out of the ashes was rather ugly. The current crop of decks is what appeared on top of that. Banning those major cards at the moment is probably a bad idea. I do think that I would be likely to feel differently if the meta were more competitive right now though. A lack of competition can cover up a bunch of cracks, and I'm pretty sure we're not seeing how far any of those cards can be pushed as a result and it's highly likely that one or more of those cards is too oppressive with an optimally built deck for it.

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 years ago

I guess I don't always have to play money.dec lol. I'm not gonna lie, it was pretty fun to win a game with 0 permanents in play.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5196/G06hT1.png

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Post by Aazadan » 3 years ago

Not a fan of taking content from other websites but I'll link it anyways since I think this is relevant to my earlier point that Modern has some diversity right now.



The league season just ended here's what the top 10 players played, in order:
D&T.
Spirits.
3Gifts Storm.
MonoR Obosh.
Sultai/Temur Control.
Rakdos midrange/Shadow.
4c Omnath
Eldrazi Tron.
Hammer Time.
UR Prowess

That's quite a bit of diversity represented. Blue is definitely the dominant color but all archetypes are represented. This meta definitely revolves around a handful of pillars like I said before but what you do with those pillars can vary wildly.

I'm also starting to pick up paper cards again. Probably not the best financial decision, but I'll get to start playing in a few more months hopefully so I'm getting the decks together that interested me. Got bant ephemerate, some of the time warp nonsense decks, and yawgmoth. I feel like decks such as ephemerate are filling the role that jund used to fill in being a good midrange deck that just beats the opponent through value, so it's a natural pivot for me. Oh, and still wracking my brain trying to figure out a new pod deck. It's a lot harder to make semi tribal chains than I thought it would be, and I'm kind of rusty at it, while trying to stay away from a Devoted Druid combo to do it (since I figure that's already good, so not worth thinking about further).

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 years ago

I actually went to sell out of my Uro Omnath, and noticed everything was already down in value. I guess this is why (League seasons). Decided to continue to hold either way. When is the next season to start? So I can time when I want to offload?

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