[Group Think] Grothama, All-Devouring

[3drinks]

After the success of a community effort towards the Rebel Yell deck, I realize that was a lot of fun so let's do it again, this time with a critically underplayed commander that is sorta jank, but sorta unique; Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper! The aim is to be multiplayer conscious and not go into an archenemy situation ever so, despite the obvious synergy that Humility|tmp would provide, let's go ahead and leave that at home.

I'm thinking as a lands deck, we're shooting for 48 - 52?

Let's shift to the big 10/8 wurm for five, Grothama, All-Devouring!

Multi-Conscious Noyan Dar

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander (1)

1 grothama, all-devouring

Engine

1 dragon throne of tarkir

1 tawnos's coffin

1 mossbridge troll

1 temur sabertooth

1 heroic intervention

1 darksteel plate

1 greater good

Cost reducers

1 emerald medallion

1 rhonas's monument

1 goreclaw, terror of qal sisma

Mana

1 vernal bloom

1 nature's lore

1 three visits

1 skyshroud claim

1 ondu giant

1 silverglade elemental

Finisher

1 vigor

1 bellowing tanglewurm

1 genesis wave

Approximate Total Cost:

[MeowZeDung]

You're restricted on land ramp in these colors, but there are still good options.

Wayfarer's Bauble, Sword of the Animist, and Walking Atlas are the most straightforward. Burnished Hart is worse imo, and Solemn Simulacrum is also questionable in a deck that needs lots of instants and sorceries. Dreamscape Artist also ramps and works well with landfall if you want to do some nonsense with something like Hedron Crab and Planar Birth. Felidar Retreat is a good way to get bodies in play without using many spell slots on creatures. Terrain Generator, Myriad Landscape, and Drownyard Temple are shoe ins imo. You'll probably have some amazing utility land a la Mystic Sanctuary or Emeria, the Sky Ruin that you can fetch up with Expedition Map. Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin, Treasure Map // Treasure Cove, Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale, and Thaumatic Compass // Spires of Orazca are also ways to stuff more "lands" in the deck. Extra turns are technically ways to get more lands in play, but won't make you friends.

As for instants and sorceries that help with the land plan, Sevinne's Reclamation can ramp up to three times and has other utility. Settle the Wreckage lets you recycle creature lands right after damage for more landfall triggers. Gift of Estates keeps lands flowing. This is probably a Compulsive Research deck. If you are doing Second Sunrise / Planar Birth nonsense, then Read the Runes is a great draw spell. High Tide, Turnabout, Snap, and Frantic Search are your friends, and Narset's Reversal lets you reuse one or borrow someone's Cultivate. Mission Briefing and Flood of Recollection let you High Tide again, or Archaeomancer + Ephemerate let you loop every turn cycle and buyback a critical spell repeatedly.

As for politics/mp focus, a well timed Mirrorweave has dumb amounts of utility.

[illakunsaa]

I played a Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper deck on xmage. The deck had mostly cantrips and spells that remove all nonlands. Usually the best strategy was to just put all the counters on a single land (Darksteel Citadel ) and then cast Planar Cleansing.

I don't get what synergy there is with humility?

[3drinks]

I don't get what synergy there is with humility?

You animate a few lands then humility for the overwhelmingly favourable state, even if it does turn off the commander. Everyone has 1/1s and you have 1/1s with +1 counters on them.

I had also expected a heavy cantrips approach since they help you hit the land drops while proc'ng the commander.

[illakunsaa]

I don't get what synergy there is with humility?

You animate a few lands then humility for the overwhelmingly favourable state, even if it does turn off the commander. Everyone has 1/1s and you have 1/1s with +1 counters on them.

I had also expected a heavy cantrips approach since they help you hit the land drops while proc'ng the commander.

Seems kinda bad. Spreading your counters makes you very vulnerable to creature wraths and humility also means that your lands lose the ability to tap for mana.

Humility basically says "People hate you, your commander does nothing and you just Beast Withined your lands". Seems kinda risky if you ask me.

[Haman]

Tradewind rider? not sure if it would work.. the risk of animating too much lands is high.

MVP you might be interested = View from above, vanish into memory, Spiritual Asylum, planar birth, cartographer hawk spellseeker
Trinket mage - to get Expedition map, ozolith sol ring and Soul guide lantern

Noyan has always been a tough nut to crack. It's Casting cost is high... To protect it , u need to reach 6 to 7 mana with counterspells...or any protection spells. Sometimes you used up too much of the cantripping spells and left with counterspells in hand... u need to find the balance there.

[3drinks]

My mind hasn't been able to focus on this. Reading this other feedback has dampened my interest, and I'm kinda just moving over to Grothama, All-Devouring as said multiplayer conscious deck. I've always been intrigued by the big wurm and I got a sneaky suspicion it's going to be a much more welcome sight at the table than something Azorious. Or even just in general as players perceive being able to profit off the big guy's draw.

[3drinks]

Updated the OP with the change. Premise stays the same though.

[Ruiner]

A friend of mine played Grothoma a while back and whenever he dropped Vigor it was pretty awesome to see. I'd highly recommend giving it a shot.

[3drinks]

A friend of mine played Grothoma a while back and whenever he dropped Vigor it was pretty awesome to see. I'd highly recommend giving it a shot.

Oh yeah that guy exists haha. Man that takes me back. I'm concerned that this turns off Grothama's ability to draw cards though? Bit of anti synergy though the effects are certainly very apparent.

[Ruiner]

It's been a while since my friend played the deck but he also ran cards like Greater Good and similar effects to be able to get the card draw off of Grothoma whenever he wanted which really seemed to work out well. Vigor did tend to make his field get crazy threatening.

[3drinks]

Right, ofc greater good is the goat sac outlet here. It doesn't change Vigor from shutting the wurm off though. Grothama needs to be dealt damage and Vigor specifically prevents that.

[Ruiner]

Oh yeah totally. Vigor seemed worth it in spite of the slight nonbo with the second ability in all of the games I saw the two on board together. The synergy with the first ability got a little crazy.

[TheAmericanSpirit]

Dude, just came to say that the Vigor/Grothama synergy is the real deal. We're talking hundreds of damage, forget lethal, this is death thrice over. I wouldn't make it a lynchpin as to keep the deck friendly, but mathematically, there is no better finisher for this general than ol' Viggo.

[3drinks]

Point taken, you've convinced me.

Edit: with cost reducers, am I correct in assuming that, say I had Goreclaw and Gargos on the board, I could cast a hydra (let's use Feral Hydra for simplicity sake) for × = 6 for g?

I think I got that right.

[Wallycaine]

Point taken, you've convinced me.

Edit: with cost reducers, am I correct in assuming that, say I had Goreclaw and Gargos on the board, I could cast a hydra (let's use Feral Hydra for simplicity sake) for × = 6 for g?

I think I got that right.

Goreclaw won't apply to (the vast majority of) hydras. Goreclaw cares about the spells power in your hand/on the stack, not what it'll be on the battlefield (for cost reduction, anyways). So in your example, you'd be able to cast it for 2G with X = 6.

I thought I remembered a primer for Grothama, so I figured I'd point it your way as well: viewtopic.php?t=23109, since it should be a good place to root through for ideas, at least. Some interesting options: Hunted Troll can attack the same turn Grothama comes down, kill her for 8 cards, and even regen if you have the spare mana. Broodhatch Nantuko, on the other hand, won't contribute much to Grothama killing (though as long as you have them fight first, can add a spare card draw to something else killing her), but will make a boatload of insects for you. And Stonehoof Chieftain can make it so your creatures live through beating Grothama for cards like a piñata.

[3drinks]

Oh, right, they're still 0/0 on the stack. Still, Gargos is pretty savage and these are things the big wurm are surely happy with.

I'm really not sure I like the troll. Giving four clampable bodies is a huge drawback but I guess in the spirit of a multiplayer conscious deck....and it furthers feeding someone the idea that they might keep up and leverage our wurm as well as we do. Hmmm. This may be the first time I've actually considered this. Look at me leveling up my multiplayer abilities and such 👀😂

[Ruiner]

Ulvenwald Tracker is probably worth a consideration in this deck as a fairly solid 1 drop that gives you non-combat ways of getting Grothoma to fight one of your own creatures in response to a board wipe. It is pretty decent at helping pick off opposing threats and utility creatures as well.

[Rumpy5897]

I'd like to direct your attention to the site's existing excellent Grothama primer for inspiration.

I'm not sure Grothama is what you're after if you're trying to build a "multiplayer conscious" deck. I played the bugger for a bit after BBD came out, and the gameplay pattern is that you use the commander as a crazily huge draw spell and drop fistfuls of stuff onto the table. It's a pretty strong and quick deck, my very unpolished take on it consciously running some suboptimal choices was extremely dominant in the group and never made it to paper.

I still think you should have stuck with Falthis and Toggo. Is it really that impossible to avoid running the global board mow forever stuff?