Samwise Gamgee: Power, Potatoes, and Promises

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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

Everyone is in love with the JunkFood deck staring Frodo, Adventurous Hobbit and Sam, Loyal Attendant, but me I'm all about Samwise Gamgee as the sole star of the show. Sam gives us an exchange rate I find appetizing (pun intended) - every creature we play gives us a food, and every 3 foods rebuys us a historic card. While that historic card can be any legendary card (including planeswalkers!), Saga, or Artifact, clearly the best thing is to rebuy a legendary creature, since recasting that creature puts another Food back in! This deck was all about finding ways to make this economy even more robust:

- Bill the Pony, Treebeard, Gracious Host, and Farmer Cotton are critical cards because they are Legends that come with more food. Bill and Treebeard actually make enough food to be rebought ad nauseam! Farmer does so as well at X as low as 2, making him the best of this trio as he just keeps growing and scaling - at X = 5, he rebuys himself and another card, at X=8 he rebuys two other cards, etc., etc.

- I was also on the lookout for cards that trigger Sam and double Sam's triggers. Sadly, my budget meant right now that's just Peregrin Took which makes each creature, himself included, into TWO foods. As soon as they're in stock and budget allows, hopefully I'll add to this with Gandalf the White, Mondrak, Glory Dominus, and Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines (in roughly that priority order). Doubling Season makes an appearance, however, as just a super strong card for the deck.

- With my budget and SLC's stock of cards styming that, the next stop is to get more than just a rebought legend from all our food. Academy Manufactor is the big star here, turning each Food into a Clue and a Treasure in addition. Rosie Cotton of South Lane is the next best card, turning each food into a +1/+1 counter (actually each token, so she's great with some other cards in the deck too). Merry, Warden of Isengard gives us a free 1/1 dork. Trail of Crumbs is awesome here as well, as it doesn't care if we sac the food to Sam's ability or its own, and can draw us a ton of cards. Similarly critical, Jaheira, Friend of the Forest and Inspiring Statuary turn food we have laying around waiting to be cooked into mana. Again I'm missing a few great cards here - Elanor Gardner got sold out fast, or she'd be in the list for sure. Also sad to not have been able to nab a copy of Idol of Oblivion or Bennie Bracks, Zoologist.

- Sam is the heart of the deck, just as he's the heart of the films and books, and keeping him around is key. Fortunately, there are legends that do that. Saffi Eriksdotter and Boromir, Warden of the Tower are the strongest of them - Saffi because she will get an extra "trigger" out of Sam potentially if she protects anyone else, Boromir because he protects our whole board and incidentally hoses cheaty combo and copy decks. Lena, Selfless Champion is a less efficient Boromir that's still good. Arwen, Mortal Queen is another less efficient card but one that's really fun with Doubling Season. Gilraen, Dúnedain Protector is even less efficient, but has some properties as a manasink with some of our strong EtB cards. Related to this are graveyard recursion cards like Samwise the Stouthearted and Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle which let us yank cards out of the 'yard.

A running thing you may notice there is that every card I just mentioned can be recurred by Sam, making this deck insanely resilient, and almost all of those cards also trigger Sam, making the deck consistent. The rest of the deck is filled with some standard removal, draw, and ramp (with an emphasis on creatures, especially Legendary creatures, and other Historic cards), a few fun-ofs, some Lifegain payoffs since I often find I have more than enough Food to be able to afford saccing that food for life and triggers, and a few finishers.

In terms of actually winning - well, that's not my strength! I built an engine to drive forever, not to end the game ya'll. But there's a few avenues.

- Go big by making a few creatures massive with Rosie Cotton of South Lane (likely fueled by a Farmer Cotton loop), Nettlecyst, and Field-Tested Frying Pan, or by the text of Treebeard, Gracious Host and Lathiel, the Bounteous Dawn. Samwise himself, as your commander, is a great target for those cards but so are Treebeard, Lathiel, Aragorn, Company Leader, Banquet Guests (which might just get massive enough to win without help!) and Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles.

- Go wide by making a massive army, likely with Farmer Cotton, Lena, or Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit looped over and over. Those dorks are small, but can be made large with Motivated Pony or lethal by volume by giving them double strike off a timely War of the Last Alliance or making them all functionally unblockable thanks to Odric, Master Tactician leading the charge.

- Frodo Baggins getting you to level 4 of The Ring turbo quickly can also contribute a fair chunk of chip damage.

Note again that almost every card mentioned there is recurrable by Sam, and most of them trigger Sam - resilient and inevitable.
Samwise the Brave

Commander: 1

Planeswalkers: 1

Approximate Total Cost:

Very open to feedback! I do have to order chunks of this deck, and have decided Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines is a budgetary bridge too far (Mondrak may be too, we'll see). The maybeboard:
Last edited by Hawk 10 months ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Anointed Procession probably is just a cheaper Doubling Season most of the time I think (same with Parallel Lives).

I'm pretty sure this is a Reveillark deck too, as old school as that is

If you have one, Earthcraft is exceptional in looping decks as it acts a lot like Phyrexian Altar while being just good when you're not looping too.

It'd probably be pretty easy to turn a Phyrexian Altar into infinite mana, of course :P

Chord of Calling likely to be a useful tutor since it'll be free a lot of the time and probably has some cool use. I

Neat start for a deck :)

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

This looks pretty cool.

The mass +1/+1 counters stuff look like nonbos (of a sort) with your suite of sweepers. I feel like you could either lean away from the counters or use more thorough sweepers, no? In my clerics deck, I've opted for temporary buff effects--Goldnight Commander, for instance--to keep the team under the wrath thresholds most of the time, while still being able to pump my weenies to lethal size when needed. Conversely, if you're gaining life frequently enough, would Archangel of Thune make sense here, even if it doesn't directly interact with the food or historic themes?

This is very much looks like the sort of deck I enjoy (engines, board states, resilient, utilizing the graveyard for value), but also, like some of my decks, looks like it may have trouble closing out the game. How do you find this plays out?

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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

pokken wrote:
10 months ago
Anointed Procession probably is just a cheaper Doubling Season most of the time I think (same with Parallel Lives).

I'm pretty sure this is a Reveillark deck too, as old school as that is

If you have one, Earthcraft is exceptional in looping decks as it acts a lot like Phyrexian Altar while being just good when you're not looping too.

It'd probably be pretty easy to turn a Phyrexian Altar into infinite mana, of course :P

Chord of Calling likely to be a useful tutor since it'll be free a lot of the time and probably has some cool use. I

Neat start for a deck :)
Thanks!

True for Procession, Lives, Earthcraft, and Altar - all out of budget. Somehow I've got a spare Doubling Season laying around, so that's why that's here, but my only Procession is in use in Ratadrabik of Urborg and I own zero copies of the rest. If Elesh Norn is on the borderline of my budget at ~$25-$30, those are right out.

Chord of Calling is a great call. I imagine that's my best tutor, even better than Eladamri's Call, because it'll be free and directly onto the battlefield.

Reveillark is interesting. I love the card a lot, and when evoked it's at least 3 food (one for 'lark, two for the cards it recurs). I like all that, but don't love that 'lark itself can't be pulled back by Samwise. I'll add it to the maybeboard.
yeti1069 wrote:
10 months ago
This looks pretty cool.

The mass +1/+1 counters stuff look like nonbos (of a sort) with your suite of sweepers. I feel like you could either lean away from the counters or use more thorough sweepers, no? In my clerics deck, I've opted for temporary buff effects--Goldnight Commander, for instance--to keep the team under the wrath thresholds most of the time, while still being able to pump my weenies to lethal size when needed. Conversely, if you're gaining life frequently enough, would Archangel of Thune make sense here, even if it doesn't directly interact with the food or historic themes?

This is very much looks like the sort of deck I enjoy (engines, board states, resilient, utilizing the graveyard for value), but also, like some of my decks, looks like it may have trouble closing out the game. How do you find this plays out?
Ah, but this is a Hawk special - why include win cons when I can just durdle harder? Durdling hard enough is enough of a win :grin:

You are probably right about the wipes. I think Battle is on-theme enough I want to try it, but I think Dusk // Dawn is likely not where I want to be despite it being one of my pet cards - like you said it nonbos with my +1/+1 counters, and Dawn is hopefully not gonna have a lot of work to do if Samwises and friends are doing their jobs. I think that I actually want to try just good ol' vanilla Wrath of God and see if I can utilize some sick Boromir/Darien plays to blow up the world while keeping a board.

I am a bit worried about winning though, for real. I toyed with including stuff like Shield of the Oversoul and All That Glitters to try to Voltron off with Sam, or including Triumph of the Hordes for the cheese of it. Motivated Pony is an option that's on-theme, as would Blossoming Bogbeast. Right now this deck is more or less totally reliant on drawing the Cottons (Rosie and Farmer) to actually win. That, or slowly chunk people down with Angel of the Ruins.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 10 months ago

I picked up a Jaheira, Friend of the Forest in anticipation of maybe building a token/food deck, but Sam looks much more fun. I really like what you have going here. This is going on my brew list.

Time of Need is flavorful tutor that should find pretty much anything you need to complete an engine. Along with the other Legend tutors gives you strong legend synergy in the otherwise boring tutor suite.

Blossoming Bogbeast looks great for this deck. Crack a couple clues and you get +8/+8 :)

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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
10 months ago
I picked up a Jaheira, Friend of the Forest in anticipation of maybe building a token/food deck, but Sam looks much more fun. I really like what you have going here. This is going on my brew list.

Time of Need is flavorful tutor that should find pretty much anything you need to complete an engine. Along with the other Legend tutors gives you strong legend synergy in the otherwise boring tutor suite.

Blossoming Bogbeast looks great for this deck. Crack a couple clues and you get +8/+8 :)
Good call-outs. I am making a slight tweak before I order I think:

CUT:
- Aragorn, Company Leader: Frodo, Boromir, and "The Ring Goes South" are just not enough "Tempts" to reliably use him, and he's just a marginal Sam-able sidegrade to something like a Botanical Brawler if I'm not Tempted by the Ring constantly. Even when drawn with Frodo - a 3/3 First Strike Deathtouch that also makes Sam a First Strike Deathtouch is neat, but nothing game-breaking. Sad from a flavor perspective.
- Banquet Guests: Will usually be a 5/5 or 6/6 for cheap. That's strong, but we can do better. Not being recurrable by Sam, and being a bad target for other reanimation effects, hurts what would otherwise be an intriguing beatstick for the deck.
- Nissa, Voice of Zendikar: A generic goodstuff card that isn't as synergystic as I'd like.
- Dusk // Dawn based on @yeti1069's advice.
- Saradoc, Master of Buckland: I am just not convinced this is where we want to be? This is a close cut and I may make a game-day decision on this versus Ellyn below.

ADDS:
+ Blossoming Bogbeast as another way to just win
+ Lathiel, the Bounteous Dawn as a less resilient but more flexible alternative to Treebeard as a win-con card.
+ Ellyn Harbreeze, Busybody as another dig/draw effect
+ Chord of Calling as a tutor
+ Wrath of God as a sweeper

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Post by Mookie » 10 months ago

Any consideration for Clock of Omens? I recognize you're not going heavy on non-food artifacts, but it's some nice redundancy for Inspiring Statuary if you have any mana rock. I'll call out Karn, Legacy Reforged and Nettlecyst for similar artifact-synergy reasons.

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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

I'm not sold on Clock of Omens - the deck has only two true rocks and I'm honestly not convinced that Signet wouldn't be better replaced by Wood Elves or an additional 1-drop mana dork like Llanowar Elves (which triggers Sam), Wayfarer's Bauble (which can be recurred by Sam), or Farseek/Nature's Lore since they're just so darn efficient.

Karn, Legacy Reforged is tempting - except for that pesky "no nonartifact spells" clause. I can see an alternate build of Sam that's more of a Tempered Steel swarm deck where Karn is great, but this take on the build isn't the home. Plus if I can get my mits on Karn he's going straight into Daretti. Blinkmoth Urn is closer, but ultimately I'd rather free up a copy of Mirari's Wake for the deck.

Nettlecyst is an intriguing call though. All That Glitters just missed the cut but this is an All That Glitters that is Sam-able and even makes dork tokens that might matter with other cards in my deck. Definitely giving it a thought.

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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

Have updated the decklist for what I'll actually, finally, be getting to playtest this weekend. Lots of concessions made for what I could afford and find at my LGS, so sadly the deck is missing Gandalf the White, Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines, Mondrak, Glory Dominus, Panharmonicon, and Blossoming Bogbeast. Trying to compensate with Motivated Pony, Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles, and Odric, Master Tactician as other win-con cards and I bit the bullet on Eladamri's Call and Chord of Calling as some tutors to find the deck's best cards.

I also went to 38 lands which feels nutso in a deck with something like 40 cards that cost 3MV or less, but in my goldfishing I was finding that the deck rarely runs out of cards, has lots of mana sinks, and really wants to keep hitting its land drops.

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Post by yeti1069 » 10 months ago

I've been upgrading the Food and Fellowship deck with Frodo & Sam, which has a lot of overlap here. I found that Bennie Bracks, Zoologist was offering a little more value than Ellyn Harbreeze, Busybody most of the time. If I can make a token on 2 turns, the +2 cards was feeling a little better than the +1 out of 2-3. Plus, Bennie often comes down to or .

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Post by cheonice » 10 months ago

Have you considered Whitemane Lion? This feels like it could do some work.

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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

yeti1069 wrote:
10 months ago
I've been upgrading the Food and Fellowship deck with Frodo & Sam, which has a lot of overlap here. I found that Bennie Bracks, Zoologist was offering a little more value than Ellyn Harbreeze, Busybody most of the time. If I can make a token on 2 turns, the +2 cards was feeling a little better than the +1 out of 2-3. Plus, Bennie often comes down to or .
Oh yeah, there's another $20 card that gives me a bit of sticker shock and that my LGS was sold out of :pensive: . I have no doubt Bennie is one of the better draw effects in the deck if you can get him, probably blowing out everyone except Idol of Oblivion and even then it's close. I actually think I'm more likely to chase down Bennie than any other card on my want list besides Gandalf, especially since he's so great with Flash effects.
cheonice wrote:
10 months ago
Have you considered Whitemane Lion? This feels like it could do some work.
I honestly hadn't considered Whitemane Lion, although I'd be more likely to nab Stonecloaker I think for the flying body and incidental grave hate. Interesting call, and one I'll keep in my back pocket. I'm excited to test Gilraen, Dúnedain Protector actually since blinking is good in this list, so if I find it's as great as I think Lion and Cloaker may find a home here.

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Post by cheonice » 10 months ago

Hawk wrote:
10 months ago
cheonice wrote:
10 months ago
Have you considered Whitemane Lion? This feels like it could do some work.
I honestly hadn't considered Whitemane Lion, although I'd be more likely to nab Stonecloaker I think for the flying body and incidental grave hate. Interesting call, and one I'll keep in my back pocket. I'm excited to test Gilraen, Dúnedain Protector actually since blinking is good in this list, so if I find it's as great as I think Lion and Cloaker may find a home here.
Both are fantastic cards, if you care about etb. They get even better with cost reductions! I play bont in Ephara, God of the Polis to great success. @pokken has written quite a bit about these effects in his Ephara primer.

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Post by Hawk » 10 months ago

Got two games in this weekend. Both a bit weird as 3 player "attack left" games, but it was a test drive nonetheless.

Game 1 versus Narset, Enlightened Master (defending against) and Brimaz, Blight of Oreskos (attacking into): Narset ramped into turn 4 Narset, then Pathed the Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles I summoned to defend myself. Their first hit was just cantrips and rocks, but their second hit was burn and extra turn into more turns into...I died and Brimaz scooped at the start of Narset's 5th turn in a row. Hindsight 20/20 I tutored for Farmer Cotton to make a hoard of bodies, but should have tutored Boromir, Warden of the Tower and made Narset have removal they weren't cheating out. Learning #1: Know my toolbox better.

Game 2: versus Yarok, the Desecrated (defending against) and Brimaz, Blight of Oreskos (attacking into again). This was a long, grindy game. I got a great early engine off of Peregrin Took and Rosie Cotton of South Lane and Treebeard, Gracious Host (tutored up Rosie with Call)...and then my board ate a Sunfall. Fortunately, I had a pile of food so even losing some of my best cards, I did respond by saccing King Darien XLVIII to keep him in the 'yard, saccing 6 food to draw two cards, and keeping 4 food banked. Yarok was mana screwed and taking a billion damage from Incubator Pods and a Wurmcoil Engine, and he just couldn't pressure me much at all after his early Jadelight Ranger got merced. That let me build back up, assembling a ludicrous board thanks to the interaction of Jaheira, Friend of the Forest, Farmer Cotton, and Skullclamp. Yarok got dropped to 1 but started to rebuild - but not enough to punch through my horde of 1/1s, especially not once Lathiel, the Bounteous Dawn came down to start pumping folks a bit from excess life gained from food. Yarok eventually scooped, wanting to see if Brimaz could find a win. I had just used War of the Last Alliance to tutor Odric, Master Tactician down, so they needed to kill Odric (who had Arwen, Mortal Queen and Lena, Selfless Champion ready to protec him so they'd need multiple layers of kill or one specific kill spell) or gain enough life to stop my horde. They calculated that with Vault of the Archangel they could go to 74 but not kill me or Odie, and I calculated that by cracking six foods before we went to their end step I'd be swinging in for 87 on my next turn with some Lathiel boosts plus the ~40 something Halflings and Soldiers I had laying around. Victory to Sam!

Sam, Farmer Cotton, the Clamp, and Jaheira ate removal multiple times in the endgame (Massacre Girl, Find // Finality, a naturalize, multiple Ravenous Chupacabra triggers thanks to Yarok and a Strionic Resonator, a Go for the Throat) but only that early Sunfall was exile removal and the only grave hate was a way-too-slow Bojuka Bog so every time I just kept coming back and the doompile of foods just kept growing. By the endgame Sam was going to be 8 mana on his next cast, but I ended the game with 35 food tokens (well, 29 - she scooped after I mathed it out but I would have needed to crack six to gain enough life to kill her dead).

Learnings overall:
- This deck absolutely did its thing, and is a dream to pilot. 38 lands was right. Overall I think I could make no changes and love playing it. That being said...
- Exile removal sucks so bad that I'm tempted to include Pull from Eternity as an answer. More realistically, given how good Gilraen, Dúnedain Protector was briefly before she ate removal herself, I probably really do want Whitemane Lion and Stonecloaker.
- The gap between my best cards (Jaheira, Peregrin, Rosie, Skullclamp, Farmer Cotton) and every other card is Grand Canyon sized, which implies more tutors would be good...but I already got a side-eye for finding Farmer Cotton twice in two games.
- I wish I had a more explosive way to just win. If any deck were to make me finally bite the bullet and pay the money for 'hoof or Finale of Devastation its this one. Having to wait a whole round for Odric, Master Tactician is forever-slow.
- It occurs to me once I get an engine thrumming that Aura Shards and Cathars' Crusade would be nutso in this deck, so I should probably consider adding them.

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Post by Hawk » 8 months ago

This deck has continued to perform well with no changes, but it's about to eat good with WOE. A few cards I have a strong eye on:

Night of the Sweets' Revenge: Jaheira and Statuary are among the best cards in the '99. This is worse than both of those since it doesn't trigger Sam and costs 1 more and can't be recurred by Sam...but it's still redundancy, and it has the consolation prize of just winning the game at 7+ foods. Seems like a slamdunk.
The Huntsman's Redemption: Seems super strong, obviously, as a delayed but recurrable Diabolic Intent of sorts. But this deck is getting archenemied sometimes for making doom piles of food and "playing the same", so I don't know if I'll add it. If you plan to play this at stores, it's probably an auto-include.
Welcome to Sweettooth: Seems interesting, but I actually have been sorta underwhelmed by a Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit so we'll see.
Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender: A strong scaling threat that both triggers and can be recurred by Sam and can be cracked to be a big life swing for someone like Lathiel or Treebeard is really, really good. A likely inclusion.
Gylwain, Casting Director: A solid "fun-of" but I like Aragorn, Company Leader for that slot.

Oh, and obviously Stroke of Midnight is going in every W/x deck.

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Post by pokken » 8 months ago

Couple cards I have found really strong in my kinda similar oketra deck:

Martyred Rusalka - not quite infinite, but very efficient and can even stuff Eldrazi
Helm of Possession - not my favorite play pattern but it does a ton of work at stopping some shenanigans.
Martyr's Cause - really efficient open sac outlet that let's you stuff a lot of combat and damage sweepers


Also, self-sac'ing dudes like Burnished Hart and Canoptek Wraith do a ton of work for me.

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Post by Hawk » 8 months ago

pokken wrote:
8 months ago
Couple cards I have found really strong in my kinda similar oketra deck:

Martyred Rusalka - not quite infinite, but very efficient and can even stuff Eldrazi
Helm of Possession - not my favorite play pattern but it does a ton of work at stopping some shenanigans.
Martyr's Cause - really efficient open sac outlet that let's you stuff a lot of combat and damage sweepers


Also, self-sac'ing dudes like Burnished Hart and Canoptek Wraith do a ton of work for me.
Interesting - I have been noticing that in many games I have such a pile of food because there's so little I want to recur, so I'm just waiting for someone to try to remove my stuff so I can buy it back with Sam. Skullclamp is my only real "sac outlet", and it only works on Farmer Cotton and a smattering of other cards in the '99. I have wondered if I've wanted some true sacrifice outlets to churn and burn my creatures for profit. All my copies of Cause are currently in use but I know I've got Rusalka kicking around somewhere....good suggestions!

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Post by Kingofsouls » 7 months ago

Have you thought about Loran of the Third Path instead of Reclamation Sage? She is a legend, and card draw.

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Post by Hawk » 7 months ago

Kingofsouls wrote:
7 months ago
Have you thought about Loran of the Third Path instead of Reclamation Sage? She is a legend, and card draw.
100% a problem of Budget - as soon as I can get a copy, 110% this is a 1-for-1 swap.

------------------------------------------
Dr. Who is looking to bring some powerful cards to this deck, if I'm so inclined...

- Astrid Peth is a slam-dunk and probably the best card previewed so far. Comes with two food if Sam's out, can make more food on attacking, and acts as a little bit of an extra Trail of Crumbs as well letting us draw lands or pump Astrid and prune our deck potentially filling the 'yard with more Sam targets. Just incredible and I wouldn't be surprised to find her jumping ahead of almost all the current "best cards in the deck".
- Jo Grant is a strong inclusion as well. Love the idea of being able to cycle creatures then buy them back with Sam. Probably too slow to be an auto-include, but it really tickles me to try it out.
- Sarah Jane Smith is solid. She's not quite as crazy as Peregrin Took but still a great way to get an extra artifact token out of a lot of the cards we cast. "Once per turn" is pretty meh, but it's rare for me to be casting a ton more than 1 historic spell per turn.
- Trial of a Time Lord is a super-charged, recurrable Grasp of Fate. I think it's a bit too cute for my tastes, but worth a look.
- The Night of the Doctor is probably too slow and fragile (we're gonna feel really stupid if we let Sam go to the 'yard with it and then it gets nuked before our next main phase), but a recurrable boardwipe has to get at least a bit of a look. I may test it over Austere Command.

There are a lot of additional legendary creatures, artifacts, and sagas so far in the set, but none of them excite me to test like these three.
- The Caves of Androzani looks really soft as a control card compared to Trials of a Time Lord. It is cute with Aragorn, Company Leader but his days in my '99 are numbered as more and more great stuff gets printed and acquired by me. And we're unlikely/unable to run any doctors.
- The Girl in the Fireplace and Rose Tyler aren't doing anything we want to do.
- Peri Brown does intrigue me, but ultimately feels a bit too slow at 4 mana and a bit too "win-more"; she's awesome when we're looping Farmer Cotton or Lena, Selfless Champion but if we're looping those cards we're probably already winning.
- Tegan Jovanka is a good way to attack fearlessly with some of our smaller cards, but that's not really how I've been winning.
- The War Games isn't that great considering our lack of warriors.
- Wilfred Mott is glacially slow without time travel/proliferate trickery so I've gotta give him a pass.
- Ace, Fearless Rebel is easy to fuel for our deck, but just feels a bit too slow.
- City of Death is intriguing, but feels like a very expensive way to just make a pile of food or treasure. Given how underwhelming I've found Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit (whichs pays off much faster), this is probably a pass for me.
- Fugitive of the Judoon is another Doctor-centric card we don't care for.
- Graham O'Brien is a 2 MV legend that makes food...in a way that our deck will almost never exploit. Sorry Graham, not this time.
- Jamie McCrimmon could be a heck of a dumb beater in some versions of this deck, but we've got much better beaters. Banquet Guests is on its way out of my list and is infinitely better at face-smashing than Jamie.
- Susan Foreman is definitely not for us.
- The Curse of Fenric is a lot of words that might be good - it's an AoE Pongify that can later kill another card? Honestly just seems too weird to be good, especially when Trials of a Time Lord is in the same set and seems better to me at removal.
- The Moment is a card I'm not into; we already don't run Disk, Stone, Powder Keg etc, and this is generally slower if you aren't using Time Travel to juice it up.

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 7 months ago

I know some of them can be expensive depending on the card, but have you looked into some of the other life gain payoff cards? The ones that draw cards or make flying creatures? With your excess food tokens, cracking one or two here and there for extra cards and attackers might be a good backup plan or wincon. I think there are some budget options that do this a little less efficient than the flagship cards like Archangel of Thune and Celestine, the Living Saint.

Crested Sunmare easily flood the board with 5/5's
Dawn of Hope kinda slow on the card draw due to the activation cost.
Valkyrie Harbinger triggers herself, but 1 life higher than a single food token provides.
Angelic Accord probably not, but listed for comparison

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Post by Hawk » 7 months ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
7 months ago
I know some of them can be expensive depending on the card, but have you looked into some of the other life gain payoff cards? The ones that draw cards or make flying creatures? With your excess food tokens, cracking one or two here and there for extra cards and attackers might be a good backup plan or wincon. I think there are some budget options that do this a little less efficient than the flagship cards like Archangel of Thune and Celestine, the Living Saint.

Crested Sunmare easily flood the board with 5/5's
Dawn of Hope kinda slow on the card draw due to the activation cost.
Valkyrie Harbinger triggers herself, but 1 life higher than a single food token provides.
Angelic Accord probably not, but listed for comparison
You have a good point overall. This deck definitely needs more ways to "win", and a lot of the lifegain synergy cards already in the list like Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles and Lathiel, the Bounteous Dawn have proven very good. Going card by card...
  • Dawn of Hope is in the list, and is indeed a bit too slow for my tastes. I've honestly found The Gaffer a bit slow, and this has been even worse. It'll be cut as soon as I can get a card that's more efficient (hoping I can convince someone to get me a copy of Bennie Bracks, Zoologist for Christmas).
  • Celestine, the Living Saint was in my initial drafts and in goldfishing seemed just okay, but neither of my LGS have her in stock. I'm eager to test her if I can get a copy though, since she has something a lot of these other cards don't (a Legendary tag that makes her recurrable by Sam and tutorable by some of my tutors). Goldfishing was not kind to her but that was me playing against myself on Samut - not a real test. Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle has been incredible in live play scenarios, so Celestine is probably strong.
  • Archangel of Thune is likely very, very good in this deck even non-recurrable, but I'm not sure it's better than Cathars' Crusade which I want to test first and finally have a spare copy of. Price is also a bit much for my tastes. If I was going to drop $20+ on a card for this deck, it'd be tough to not make that investment on a more univesally powerful card (Craterhoof Behemoth) or a more flavorful, synergistic one (like Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines).
  • Valkyrie Harbinger and Angelic Accord both feel too much slower than their competition.
  • You're probably right that Sunmare would be solid given how good Gwaihir, Greatest of the Eagles has been thus far.

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 7 months ago

I'm surprised to hear The Gaffer has been underwhelming. Might need a couple more games to shine, but it reads like a shoe-in for this deck since we can get triggers on other players turn like Bennie Bracks.

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Post by Hawk » 7 months ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
7 months ago
I'm surprised to hear The Gaffer has been underwhelming. Might need a couple more games to shine, but it reads like a shoe-in for this deck since we can get triggers on other players turn like Bennie Bracks.
It just rarely feels worth cracking food for life + cards at 2 mana a pop, and to draw on each person's end step is 8 which is a ton. I find I need cards most when I'm rebuilding after a wipe, where mana is tight. Where mana is free and I'm throwing away food for life is when I'm pumping for the win with Lathiel, at which point the Gaffer is a bit win more. I'm on like four games so far and drew him once, so grain of salt for sure, but given my lack of enthusiasm for the ol' Gaffer, anything slower than him is just right out in my book. As a result, Dawn of Hope isn't the first card I'm cutting when I go buy more singles like Gandalf, Bennie, Astrid, Night of the Sweets' Revenge, etc., but it's high on my list of cuts.

If one was curious what that list is:
- Field-Tested Frying Pan: Just forever slow, and not really where I want to be. Voltron hasn't been a way I've won yet, but if I were to win a Voltron game it's much easier to do with Nettlecyst or counters from Rosie, Lathiel, or Treebeard.
- Bill the Pony: Was so high on him as an "infinitely recurrable blocker", but other cards are just more efficient and even my modest tutor package has proven more than sufficient to find superior cards like Peregrin Took, Farmer Cotton, or Treebeard, Gracious Host fairly reliably. He does get better with more sacrifice outlets ,which is on my to-do list to add, but he's still pretty weak even then. The release of Astrid Peth (assuming she's cheap enough to acquire) totally kills this Pony.
- Banquet Guests: Just a dumb beater, and one that can't be recured by Samwise and plays poorly with Teshar.
- King Darien XLVIII, Eternal Witness, Merry, Warden of Isengard, Aragorn, Company Leader - these are all replacement-level cards. They're fine, and fun in the case of Aragorn, but not super powerful or efficient. They'll be the first to go as I get more powerful cards. EWit is particularly meh, since Sam gets back what I want so often for the most part. Aragorn is likely the last to go purely because he's fun even if he isn't actually that good.
- Dawn of Hope: This is about where this is at in the list; probably goes after Darien and EWit but before Aragorn or Merry.

------------
Our last round of previews mostly wasn't for Sam - Romana II got a look from me but feels too slow as she'd mostly just be making Food. But I'm weirdly into Displaced Dinosaurs as a finisher; "All my foods are now also 7/7s" just really tickles me.

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Post by Kingofsouls » 7 months ago

If I can intrude, I played my Samwise deck vs Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, Imodane, the Pyrohammer, and ,The Thirteenth Doctor and Yasmin Khan out of the box. One of the all Stars was Sergeant John Benton , digging until he bit it. Elesh Norn // The Argent Etchings was also pretty good, making combat involving you a nightmare and is also a wincon. Some good for though maybe?

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Post by Hawk » 6 months ago

Kingofsouls wrote:
7 months ago
If I can intrude, I played my Samwise deck vs Atraxa, Praetors' Voice, Imodane, the Pyrohammer, and ,The Thirteenth Doctor and Yasmin Khan out of the box. One of the all Stars was Sergeant John Benton , digging until he bit it. Elesh Norn // The Argent Etchings was also pretty good, making combat involving you a nightmare and is also a wincon. Some good for though maybe?
Awesome to hear from another "Potato enjoyer" :grin:

I have thought a lot about Sergeant John Benton, and I think for a deck deeper on +1/+1 counters and aggressive draws, he's not bad at all. He's likely better than Aragorn, Company Leader as a "fun-of". I'm archenemy often enough that "hey, let me bolt you so we can both draw 3" is a tough sell though, and he doesn't seem instrumental to me.

I know it's weird, but I also think that Elesh Norn // The Argent Etchings occupies a similar spot to War of the Last Alliance - they're both 4 MV recurrable cards that offer us a delayed chance at a massive alpha strike alongside some incremental value. Norn is probably a bit better than Alliance overall (triggers Sam more often, is a sac outlet, is a boardwipe, is a strong rattle-snake card), although it reads to me as not so much better as to be an urgent priority to make that swap.

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