The Community Deck Build Project!

[RxPhantom]

I'll yay Rakdos Carnarium but nay on Sulfurous Mire. Are we just looking to enable Den of the Bugbear and Dwarven Mine?

I'm just going to nominate Sulfurous Springs for today. I further motion that lands are looking pretty good and that we're close to done. I think the rest of these slots should be basics, unless we missed something that's too good to omit.

[3drinks]

I was going to say the same, we have room for ten basics which based on our pips is a 7-3 mountain over swamp split (43 R vs 25 B).

I think sulfurous mire is better than most the duals we have here with it's typings that most our lands lack. But players greatly underrate these because of a fear of tap lands (yet will slam terramorphic expanse in all their decks 🙄). Similarly, we still need a canyon slough.

Blightstep/Seartep Pathway yay - 2 nay - 2
Rakdos Carnarium yay - 1 nay - 0
Sulfurous Mire yay - 0 nay - 1

[duducrash]

Personally not a fan of bounce lands if there is not benefit trom picking the land up. Pathways are okay I guess, mosty in faster formats.

Nay pathway, nay carnarium

Yay mire.

My pick for the day is Desert of the Glorified in place of a swamp

For the spell redux consideration, whenever that happens id like to mention Brass's Bounty

[aliciaofthevast]

I know we're about to wrap but I'd be remiss if I didn't offer Desert of the Fervent with Desert of the Glorified. Both have the desert thing going on but also cycle.

I need convincing in the pathway to understand why I'd play this. It's not like river of tears that would let me get either color, idk, I'm just not sold on this card being worth anything.

In this deck it's better than a basic, right? Unless I'm missing some kind of swamp/mountain synergies that are in the deck already, I don't know why we wouldn't run this.

It's because it's a nonbasic that only adds one color. I like my duals to actually provide both colors as needed.

[kirkusjones]

The pathways aren't duals, though. They're conditional lands. Play the side you want as needed. And they come into play untapped. I'm not saying they're great by any means, but for a two-color deck with no fetches and no basic land synergies, we could do way worse.

[RxPhantom]

I like Pathways in two-colored decks only. They're not good enough for more than that, but I'd say they're very good here. When it comes to tap lands though, I think we have enough, which is why I previously nayed Sulfurous Mire. I might yay Temple of Malice. Maybe.

I know I started the whole desert thing with Survivors' Encampment, but I'm not sure about the ones that enter tapped. We seem to already have a lot. I'd like to hear others' thoughts.

[kirkusjones]

Even with rituals and stuff, I feel this deck is pretty mana hungry and having too many CIPT lands is going to be a speedbump to our plan. This is a long way to say nay on the cycling deserts.

[RxPhantom]

We only have room for ten basics? Ugh. Don't like that. Nay to the cycling deserts. I'm going to reverse my vote on Carnarium to a nay.

I was going to say the same, we have room for ten basics which based on our pips is a 7-3 mountain over swamp split (43 R vs 25 B).

I think sulfurous mire is better than most the duals we have here with it's typings that most our lands lack. But players greatly underrate these because of a fear of tap lands (yet will slam terramorphic expanse in all their decks 🙄). Similarly, we still need a canyon slough.

The land types are great, but I don't think they matter in this particular deck. We're not running any fetches or land ramp. I think I'd rather run a basic.

[duducrash]

The mountain typing is somewhat relevant in the deck

[3drinks]

The Pathway did officially get axed, in a wonderful sea-saw of back and forth. I love that, love how contested they are among player perspectives.

If we're going to deny the cycling deserts, then I'm at least going to dig my heels in for Canyon Slough. I think the benefits in a type dual that can be pitched latre is a worthwhile tradeoff. Filibuster! Filibuster! Filibu -- *gets shot*. Okay, I'll shut up. Still, that's a conversation we're having tomorrow.

Rakdos Carnarium yay - 0 nay - 2
Sulfurous Mire yay - 0 nay - 1
Desert of the Fervent yay - 0 nay - 2
Desert of the Glorified yay - 0 nay - 2

[kirkusjones]

The mountain typing is somewhat relevant in the deck

EDIT - Dwarven Mine/Dragonskull Summit/Foreboding Ruins.

[3drinks]

Here's a fun idea. Both our commander and background are viable with Obosh, the Preypiercer as companion. I bet we could retrofit the deck to support this.

[Myllior]

You'd pretty much need to start over to make Obosh work; practically half the deck (32 cards) is incompatible with using it as a companion. Not saying you can't do that, but it's a lot of work.

[3drinks]

You'd pretty much need to start over to make Obosh work; practically half the deck (32 cards) is incompatible with using it as a companion. Not saying you can't do that, but it's a lot of work.

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact. Dang I wish I would have remembered that at the start. The allure of having three extra cards to start the game with is strong.

[duducrash]

I feel like we are done with the first draft, right?

[3drinks]

For my submission today, because I gave it away and I'm going to die on this hill, I submit Canyon Slough. It's a typed dual for under $3 that isn't even awful if we see it late. There's no downside and for that it should be an easy include.

That's it, I don't even have a second submission. Just this one land.

Rakdos Carnarium yay - 0 nay - 2
Sulfurous Mire yay - 1 nay - 1
Desert of the Fervent yay - 0 nay - 2
Desert of the Glorified yay - 0 nay - 2
Canyon Slough yay - 1 nay - 0

I feel like we are done with the first draft, right?

People still need to confirm the rest of these, which has been an issue throughout this initial run.

[duducrash]

I yayed mire back upthread

Yay canyon slought.

Nay deserts of fervent and glorified (am I allowed to nay my own pick? I was conviced)

[3drinks]

Officially, the answer was to not vote your own picks, but given where we're at I'll go ahead and count that if no one else says it by the end of the day.

[kirkusjones]

Yea on the slough, nay on Mire and Carnarium.

[3drinks]

That officially nixes Rakdos Carnarium.

Sulfurous Mire yay - 1 nay - 2
Desert of the Fervent yay - 0 nay - 2
Desert of the Glorified yay - 0 nay - 2
Canyon Slough yay - 2 nay - 0

[duducrash]

Okay. So I'll just nay Desert of the Fervent for now, since I only picked Desert of the Glorified

[3drinks]

I took the liberty of organizing into roles and making an executive decision on hanger on cards since we've got a problem with votes it seems (which I'll address in the next one). Is this really where we want the finished product to end up?

Community Build v1.0

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Livaan, Cultist of Tiamat

1 Cultist of the Absolute

Role?

1 Swiftfoot Boots

1 Mark of Fury

Tokens

1 Lab Rats

1 Dreadhorde Invasion

1 Loyal Apprentice

1 Young Pyromancer

1 Bastion of Remembrance

1 Goblinslide

1 Ophiomancer

1 Sedgemoor Witch

1 Goblin Wizardry

Disruption

1 Suffer the Past

1 Disrupt Decorum

1 Baeloth Barrityl, Entertainer

Finisher

1 Tainted Strike

1 Blazing Shoal

1 Harmonic Prodigy

1 Haze of Rage

1 Temur Battle Rage

1 Soul's Fire

1 Chandra's Ignition

1 Insult // Injury

1 Embercleave

Extra Cards

1 Skeletal Scrying

1 Skullclamp

1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Deadly Dispute

1 Dreadhorde Arcanist

1 Plumb the Forbidden

1 Thrill of Possibility

1 Light Up the Stage

1 Reiterate

1 Efreet Flamepainter

1 Mizzix's Mastery

1 Past in Flames

1 Backdraft Hellkite

1 Etali, Primal Storm

Mana

1 Culling the Weak

1 Dark Ritual

1 Sol Ring

1 Arcane Signet

1 Cabal Ritual

1 Rakdos Signet

1 Birgi, God of Storytelling

1 Jeska's Will

1 Grim Hireling

1 Solemn Simulacrum

1 Storm-Kiln Artist

1 Mana Geyser

Removal

1 Tibalt's Trickery

1 Bedevil

1 Kolaghan's Command

1 Baleful Mastery

1 Price of Fame

1 Snuff Out

1 Murderous Cut

1 Wretched Confluence

1 Blasphemous Act

Land

1 Agadeem, the Undercrypt

1 Barbarian Ring

1 Bojuka Bog

1 Cabal Pit

1 Canyon Slough

1 Command Tower

1 Den of the Bugbear

1 Dragonskull Summit

1 Dwarven Mine

1 Foreboding Ruins

1 Graven Cairns

1 Ifnir Deadlands

1 Inkmoth Nexus

1 Kazuul's Cliffs

1 Kher Keep

1 Malakir Mire

1 Lavaclaw Reaches

1 Luxury Suite

1 Opal Palace

1 Ramunap Ruins

1 Scavenger Grounds

1 Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass

1 Smoldering Marsh

7 Snow-Covered Mountain

3 Snow-Covered Swamp

1 Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance

1 Sulfurous Springs

1 Survivors' Encampment

1 Tainted Peak

1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire

1 Valakut Stoneforge

Approximate Total Cost:

- I think we've got too many finishers.
- Removal suite is a bit light.
- We missed Seething Song, which I believe is stronger than a signet by a not-insignificant margin. Battle Hymn is also likely stronger, though not strictly so err, maybe not given this is just a Desperate Ritual unless we have more than three bodies.
- We have cards that don't fit cleanly into a category and/or make up a statistically insignificant percentage of their own category.
- We're loaded down with card advantage but not exactly the good kind of efficient draw, it's clunky and intended just to proc the commander.
- I think Hordeling Outburst is clearly superior to goblin wizardry.
- Is Charmbreaker Devils the better version of efreet flamepainter given it recurs on upkeep and shares a proc with Livaan?
- I think we could use a massive token spell, a la Goblin Offensive as a finisher. Likely superior to lab rats for the mana::use-case ratio. I also think both Goblin Rabblemaster and Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin would contribute well here as they're superior to other cards we currently have.
- My recommendation is this deck looks more like a burst deck than a gradual-build-up-over-time deck. As evidenced by not having a stellar board presence at all points in the game. It should be killing from nowhere.

This looks like enough discussion to stimulate for today.

[RxPhantom]

Ok ok ok. I'm going on vacation right now. About to start with a four hour drive. I have a lot to say, but it'll have to wait until tonight. I will stick up for Battle Hymn though, because I think it'll be easy for this deck to max out its potential. It also appears my nom for Sulfurous Springs was missed.

[kirkusjones]

Do we want some ways to enable haste, given that we're thinking a big burst of tokens? I definitely agree Seething Song deserves a spot in the deck. Does Grim Hireling do enough if we're thinking more "win out of nowhere" than chipping in for damage each turn with tokens? Same with Embercleave. Without mass haste, we lose the element of surprise and open ourselves up to getting wiped, which makes Embercleave less attractive. I guess we need to decide if the deck is about one big turn that wins the game or at least makes the outcome a foregone conclusion or one that rides incremental gains/value to an overwhelming position. I think making that call will help with deck revisions.

[3drinks]

Ok ok ok. I'm going on vacation right now. About to start with a four hour drive. I have a lot to say, but it'll have to wait until tonight. I will stick up for Battle Hymn though, because I think it'll be easy for this deck to max out its potential. It also appears my nom for Sulfurous Springs was missed.

I did miss it, but I think it's a foregone conclusion it'll end up in the list, much like the spell lands, so I'll go ahead and add it to the list now.

I think inciting conversation is a GOOD thing, so I'm all here for that discussion you want to add. 😎

Do we want some ways to enable haste, given that we're thinking a big burst of tokens? I definitely agree Seething Song deserves a spot in the deck. Does Grim Hireling do enough if we're thinking more "win out of nowhere" than chipping in for damage each turn with tokens? Same with Embercleave. Without mass haste, we lose the element of surprise and open ourselves up to getting wiped, which makes Embercleave less attractive. I guess we need to decide if the deck is about one big turn that wins the game or at least makes the outcome a foregone conclusion or one that rides incremental gains/value to an overwhelming position. I think making that call will help with deck revisions.

Given the nature of the commander, working with temporary pump, I think the natural progression to take it is the bursty out of nowhere vibe, not unlike a surprise RKO. This isn't gonna have staying power, so we need to knock people out quick before they realize what happened.

This is a great conversation to have going forward with the start of future community brews too. Whaddya know, like an AI we're learning ways to optimize this process in real time.