Have you ever wanted to play a Magic format where a playset of Bazaar of Baghdad is considered a staple?
No?
Too bad!
A while ago, on MTGS, Club Flamingo invented a hilarious and wonderful format where you were not allowed to use mana to pay for a spell's mana cost.
This mana-deficit format became colloquially (and affectionately!) known as "Hobo Magic".
"But Diz, how am I supposed to play the game if I can't spend mana to cast spells?"
Lucky for you, there are a myriad of tricks you can use to get your spells out! Alternate costs with keywords such as Suspend, Ninjutsu, Dash, and Channel are all allowed by Hobo rules. If you can cheat an Omniscience in, as another example, or pay 2 life to cast something like Gitaxian Probe, this also allows you to circumvent the "no mana spent to cast your spells" rule. Even Hogaak would be allowed, per his ability! As long as you're not paying the spell's mana cost to put it on the board, it's fair game, according to Hobo rules. With some help from friends formerly of Club Flamingo and/or MTGS admin status, I was able to dredge (teehee) up the official banlist!
The Hobo banlist is:
-Ante cards
-Black Lotus
-Blazing Shoal
-Bridge from Below
-Dread Return
-Mox Emerald
-Mox Jet
-Mox Pearl
-Mox Ruby
-Mox Sapphire
-Narcomoeba
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Some keywords and phrases that will help you get started with building Hobo decks:
Affinity (as long as Affinity reduces the cost to 0)
Aftermath
Assist (if you can discount the colored mana pips and convince another player to pay for the rest of your card)
Bestow
Blitz
Cascade
Channel
Cleave
Convoke (as long as Convoke reduces the cost to 0)
Cycling
Dash
Disturb
Dredge
Escape
Embalm
Emerge
Eternalize
Flashback
Forecast
Foretell
Hideaway
Improvise (as long as you aren't spending mana in addition to what Improvise has paid for)
Madness
Miracle
Morph
Ninjutsu
Overload
Phybrid/Phyrexian mana (as long as only life is paid to cast the spell)
Prototype
Prowl
Raid
Spectacle
Splice
Surge
Suspend
Unearth
Cards that read "rather than pay this spell's mana cost"
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This may not be an all-inclusive list of the mechanics which work with Hobo - if there are any I missed, please feel free to post them below, and I'll be happy to review them to see if they comply with the format (and subsequently edit those into this post)! Additionally, if you feel a card should be banned due to power level, please suggest it (including a reason!) and I will take it into consideration.
When I can find time to post some example decklists, down the line, I will do so. If any of you are inspired and want to come up with your own decklists for the format, please feel free to post them below - I'd love to see this format gain traction, again!
Also, due to the absurd nature of the format (and the price of Bazaar), proxying your decks is welcome, if not outright encouraged!
Happy Hoboing!
Hobo: The Return!
Question: are alternative costs, such as Admiral's Order, allowed to be paid with mana to cast a spell? Likewise Mistvein Borderpost.
Since you're paying {cost} rather than paying "this spell's mana cost" - but you're technically "paying mana" to cast a spell.
Thus, would the wording be:
You can't spend mana to pay a cost to cast a spell.
Which would make the above, Dash, and others illegal.
Or would the wording be:
You can't spend mana to pay a spell's mana cost.
In which case the above and Dash are legal.
Since you're paying {cost} rather than paying "this spell's mana cost" - but you're technically "paying mana" to cast a spell.
Thus, would the wording be:
You can't spend mana to pay a cost to cast a spell.
Which would make the above, Dash, and others illegal.
Or would the wording be:
You can't spend mana to pay a spell's mana cost.
In which case the above and Dash are legal.
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.
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SquirrelToken
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So Prototype is also good?
Yes, I believe Prototype falls within the spirit of Hobo rules, as well.
I have updated the OP to reflect this.
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wildfire393
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Do Jumpstart cards (like Chemister's Insight) really qualify? The Jumpstart ability lets you cast it from your graveyard by discarding a card <in addition to its normal costs>. You're still paying the actual mana cost of the spell.
This is presumably also why Retrace (Oona's Grace) is not on the list.
This is presumably also why Retrace (Oona's Grace) is not on the list.
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Lorn Asbord Schutta
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It follows somewhat a manaless dredge and traditional Ichorid decks in game plan, but is obviously stumped without Bridge from Below, Dread Return and Narcomoeba. The deck ideally should be on draw, pass the turn 1 and discard to the hand size putting either Nether Spirit if there is one in hand, or a dredge creature to start filling graveyard. The inclusion of cost creatures is there to keep us from being aggroed-out should we not hit enough Ichorid and Nether Shadow to put pressure even after turn 3 or 4. There is also Slaughter Pact as a means to push through any blockers to close the game out.
Probably not the best version of Ichorid even for in the context of Hobo, but I like my chances.
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wildfire393
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Seems interesting, but I think it needs some work. Traditional Manaless Dredge runs Phantasmagorian as the first thing you want to discard. This lets you discard the rest of your hand at will (at least, three cards at a time; remember you can hold priority and activate again to discard another 3) and get the ball rolling very quickly. You probably also want Bazaar of Baghdad as it's legal and an absolutely disgusting way to get dredge rolling. A few more Dredge creatures (at least Golgari Grave-Troll) are likely warranted. I'm not sure the free guys are any good, but if you're gonna run them, at least pack Vengevines to take advantage of the free creature casts. Lion's Eye Diamond may be good as well as a free way to discard your whole hand.Lorn Asbord Schutta wrote: ↑1 year ago
It follows somewhat a manaless dredge and traditional Ichorid decks in game plan, but is obviously stumped without Bridge from Below, Dread Return and Narcomoeba. The deck ideally should be on draw, pass the turn 1 and discard to the hand size putting either Nether Spirit if there is one in hand, or a dredge creature to start filling graveyard. The inclusion of cost creatures is there to keep us from being aggroed-out should we not hit enough Ichorid and Nether Shadow to put pressure even after turn 3 or 4. There is also Slaughter Pact as a means to push through any blockers to close the game out.
Probably not the best version of Ichorid even for in the context of Hobo, but I like my chances.
This is a fair point and I have removed the keyword from acceptable mechanics by which to cast spells in Hobo.wildfire393 wrote: ↑1 year agoDo Jumpstart cards (like Chemister's Insight) really qualify? The Jumpstart ability lets you cast it from your graveyard by discarding a card <in addition to its normal costs>. You're still paying the actual mana cost of the spell.
This is presumably also why Retrace (Oona's Grace) is not on the list.
Thanks for coming up with this! I'd be interested in seeing how this played against my Reanimadness and Suspend decks.Lorn Asbord Schutta wrote: ↑1 year ago
It follows somewhat a manaless dredge and traditional Ichorid decks in game plan, but is obviously stumped without Bridge from Below, Dread Return and Narcomoeba. The deck ideally should be on draw, pass the turn 1 and discard to the hand size putting either Nether Spirit if there is one in hand, or a dredge creature to start filling graveyard. The inclusion of cost creatures is there to keep us from being aggroed-out should we not hit enough Ichorid and Nether Shadow to put pressure even after turn 3 or 4. There is also Slaughter Pact as a means to push through any blockers to close the game out.
Probably not the best version of Ichorid even for in the context of Hobo, but I like my chances.
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FoxHybrid
Guardian - Posts: 32
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This is sort of a tempo/agro deck that looks to use zero cost creatures to ninjutsu out ninjas turn 2 and onwards, biggest game winners are going to be Moonblade Shinobi for making tokens that will enable more ninjutsu and Silver-Fur Master for buffing the whole team.
Yes! Thopterjutsu was a pretty popular archetype when Hobo was originally introduced.FoxHybrid wrote: ↑1 year ago
This is sort of a tempo/agro deck that looks to use zero cost creatures to ninjutsu out ninjas turn 2 and onwards, biggest game winners are going to be Moonblade Shinobi for making tokens that will enable more ninjutsu and Silver-Fur Master for buffing the whole team.
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wildfire393
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A few suggestions:FoxHybrid wrote: ↑1 year ago
This is sort of a tempo/agro deck that looks to use zero cost creatures to ninjutsu out ninjas turn 2 and onwards, biggest game winners are going to be Moonblade Shinobi for making tokens that will enable more ninjutsu and Silver-Fur Master for buffing the whole team.
1) 18 0-drops may be excessive. At 10, you'll have one basically every hand. At 12-15, you've got some insurance. At 18, you're likely going to be drawing two at a time and a third by turn 3-4 which will dilute your actual draws. Also, even if you do want them, 4 Rograkh is going to sometimes leave you with hands where you have two and the legend rule stops you from playing one, so I wouldn't run more than 3 here.
2) Likewise, you probably have a few too many ninjas (and maybe not the correct ones). Ingenious Infiltrator and Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow are going to be your best two as they draw cards and scale up with your other ninjas. Moonblade is good for making evasive tokens, definitely, but Mistblade, Silencer, and Skullsnatcher seem more iffy - if you need removal to punch through, and all your removal is Ninjutsu guys, you're going to have a lot of trouble. I think 4x of Infiltrator, Yuriko, Partisan, and Moonblade is a good start, and maybe try a few Mist-Syndicate Naga as a way to generate extra Ninjas to boot.
3) By freeing up 3-6 0-drop slots and 4-6 ninjas, you open yourself up to being able to run some other interaction. A few removal spells you can cheat-cast would be great, consider Snuff Out, Sickening Shoal, Contagion, or Snapback. You may also consider a few free counterspells like Daze, Force of Will, Force of Negation, or Disrupting Shoal. The higher MV options here play particularly nicely with Yuriko.
4) Your landbase could almost certainly use some tweaking. You're rarely going to be using your mana on turn one, so a few ETB tapped duals or fixing lands could help make sure you have exactly what you need later. Creeping Tar Pit seems like a particularly good choice here as it's also an unblockable creature you can potentially use later-game to restart your ninjutsu chains if you face removal, and you can literally get copies for under a quarter these days so it's not like it's a budget-breaker. Other manlands like Faerie Conclave, Blinkmoth Nexus, or Hive of the Eye Tyrant could also be good, though they don't have the fixing Pit does. Some MDFC lands could also be solid here, even if you're never going to cast them, they pitch to your free spells, so depending on your configuration of those you may be interested in some number of Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt, Sea Gate Restoration // Sea Gate, Reborn, or other potential blue MDFC lands to fill spots on your curve for Disrupting Shoal.
5) A final option to consider would be packing an Urza's Saga package. This is a bit more expensive budget-wise, but it gives you a powerful land that can generate threats/ninjutsu-bounceables and find flexible cards with its third chapter - Shadowspear, Aether Spellbomb, Retrofitter Foundry, Tormod's Crypt, and Ornithopter/Memnite are all reasonable finds for that chapter.
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Lorn Asbord Schutta
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60 lands
Utility
Approximate Total Cost:
The main idea is to get a hand with the main duo, even mulling aggresively for it, then on turn three swing with a flying, indestructible 20/20.
The other manlands are there to lower pressure via blocking if necessary or to provide an alternative win condition (Inkmoth Nexus via poison, Lair of the Hydra via being just big) should we lose all Marits. Nexuses are the cheapest flying manlands, while Lair scales well.
Locuses either give us more cushion against aggro, or more importantly fuel Lair/Wolf Run, potentially even allowing us to use Dark Depths without Vesuva.
Thespian's Stage is here to give another shot at copying Dark Depths. If we have 3 or 4 Cloudposts we can turn it into Locus to further increase the mana gain.
Kessig Wolf Run is here to help push though any kind of chump-blocking. The only other trample giving land is Skarrg, the Rage Pits, which do not have the pleasant scaling aspect.
Otawara, Soaring City and Boseiju, Who Endures are there for interaction, especially for mirror match, while Bojuka Bog gives us a solution against graveyard decks.
The fetch+dual package here is to provide mana for Wolf Run and channel lands and thin the deck at the same time. The basics are there as an insurance against removal that gives basics as recompensation. There could be a budget version using only Forests, Islands and Mountains as basics that could be searched via Terramorphic Expanse or New Capenna fetches.
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wildfire393
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Dark Depths + Vesuva, unfortunately, does not work. There's a reason Vesuva isn't banned in Legacy and yet nobody plays it over Thespians' Stage in the Dark Depth type decks.Lorn Asbord Schutta wrote: ↑1 year ago60 landsUtility
Approximate Total Cost:
The main idea is to get a hand with the main duo, even mulling aggresively for it, then on turn three swing with a flying, indestructible 20/20.
The other manlands are there to lower pressure via blocking if necessary or to provide an alternative win condition (Inkmoth Nexus via poison, Lair of the Hydra via being just big) should we lose all Marits. Nexuses are the cheapest flying manlands, while Lair scales well.
Locuses either give us more cushion against aggro, or more importantly fuel Lair/Wolf Run, potentially even allowing us to use Dark Depths without Vesuva.
Thespian's Stage is here to give another shot at copying Dark Depths. If we have 3 or 4 Cloudposts we can turn it into Locus to further increase the mana gain.
Kessig Wolf Run is here to help push though any kind of chump-blocking. The only other trample giving land is Skarrg, the Rage Pits, which do not have the pleasant scaling aspect.
Otawara, Soaring City and Boseiju, Who Endures are there for interaction, especially for mirror match, while Bojuka Bog gives us a solution against graveyard decks.
The fetch+dual package here is to provide mana for Wolf Run and channel lands and thin the deck at the same time. The basics are there as an insurance against removal that gives basics as recompensation. There could be a budget version using only Forests, Islands and Mountains as basics that could be searched via Terramorphic Expanse or New Capenna fetches.
Thespians' Stage + Dark Depths works because Stage becomes a copy of Depths while it's already on the battlefield. So it doesn't "enter the battlefield with 10 ice counters on it" because it's not entering the battlefield, and copying doesn't copy counters that are currently on the permanent. Vesuva, though, is entering as a copy of Depths, so it'll do everything a normal Depths does as it enters the battlefield, including gaining 10 ice counters.
There may be a way to get a mostly-lands deck to work, but it's likely going to involve a way to put additional lands onto the battlefield - you're just too slow without it putting in one land per turn. I can't quite figure out how to crack the nut of doing that around Hobo restrictions at the moment, but I'm sure there's some way. Maybe some kind of Bazaar of Baghdad into Flashback reanimation spells on Cultivator Colossus type list?
Roughly something like:
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:
40 lands is a far cry from 60, but this is likely your best bet for something like this. Bazaar is obviously your key card here, as it will let you loot into either Uro + 5 cards in graveyard or Colossus + Rites/Catacombs+5 cards in graveyard. Drownyard Temples and Riftstone Portals like to be in the yard and help fix mana/ramp you, and Urborg/Yavimaya make your pile of colorless lands able to make more colors. Squees are there so that you can refill your hand after discarding three several turns in a row. Sanitariums are backup (much weaker) Bazaars. Colosseum can fill in for late-game Bazaar.
This is obviously a rough draft and could use some tuning, but it should be pretty easy to do something like Cultivator Colossus into a double digit number of lands or just grind Uro value after a couple of Bazaar activations. LD and GY hate can definitely screw you over though, but you can sometimes just make Stage Depths work too without worrying too much about your GY.
