Zone Exchange

Legend
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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

Card Name (Rare)
6
Artifact
T: If both targets are still legal as this ability resolves, exchange target historic permanent card a player controls with target historic permanent card in their graveyard. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)

1. Can "exchange" do this?
2, I used "historic permanent card" for the first target because I want the wording to prevent the ability from being able to target tokens. Does it?
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

1 - the rules for this are covered in 701.10. Exchange.
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701.10. Exchange

701.10a A spell or ability may instruct players to exchange something (for example, life totals or control of two permanents) as part of its resolution. When such a spell or ability resolves, if the entire exchange can't be completed, no part of the exchange occurs.
Example: If a spell attempts to exchange control of two target creatures but one of those creatures is destroyed before the spell resolves, the spell does nothing to the other creature.

701.10b When control of two permanents is exchanged, if those permanents are controlled by different players, each of those players simultaneously gains control of the permanent that was controlled by the other player. If, on the other hand, those permanents are controlled by the same player, the exchange effect does nothing.

701.10c When life totals are exchanged, each player gains or loses the amount of life necessary to equal the other player's previous life total. Replacement effects may modify these gains and losses, and triggered abilities may trigger on them. A player who can't gain life can't be given a higher life total this way, and a player who can't lose life can't be given a lower life total this way (see rules 119.7–8).

701.10d Some spells or abilities may instruct a player to exchange cards in one zone with cards in a different zone (for example, exiled cards and cards in a player's hand). These spells and abilities work the same as other "exchange" spells and abilities, except they can exchange the cards only if all the cards are owned by the same player, and they can exchange the cards even if one zone is empty.

701.10e If a card in one zone is exchanged with a card in a different zone, and either of them is attached to an object, that card stops being attached to that object and the other card becomes attached to that object.

701.10f If a spell or ability instructs a player to simply exchange two zones, and one of the zones is empty, the cards in the zones are still exchanged.

701.10g A spell or ability may instruct a player to exchange two numerical values. In such an exchange, each value becomes equal to the previous value of the other. If either of those values is a life total, the affected player gains or loses the amount of life necessary to equal the other value. Replacement effects may modify this gain or loss, and triggered abilities may trigger on it. A player who can't gain life can't be given a higher life total this way, and a player who can't lose life can't be given a lower life total this way (see rules 119.7–8). If either of those values is a power or toughness, a continuous effect is created setting that power or toughness to the other value (see rule 613.4b). This rule does not apply to spells and abilities that switch a creature's power and toughness.
This exact use case doesn't appear to be covered - the rules discuss exchanging permanents and cards in zones (ex: Harness Infinity), but it doesn't discuss exchanging cards between zones. However, a similar use case does appear to be covered by Aura Swap:
702.65. Aura Swap
702.65a Aura swap is an activated ability of some Aura cards. "Aura swap [cost]" means "[Cost]: You may exchange this permanent with an Aura card in your hand."
702.65b If either half of the exchange can't be completed, the ability has no effect.
2 - this doesn't work, because permanents aren't cards. You'll need to say 'target nontoken historic permanent' and 'target historic permanent card'.

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Post by user_938036 » 2 years ago

Taking a clue from goblin welder you want to front-load what your targets are then put in the if they are still legal when it resolves. It's just easier to read that way. You're also going to want to go with "own" rather than "control". They can only exchange between zones if they own the cards because they can't put other players' cards into their graveyard.

t: Choose target nontoken historic permanent and target historic permanent card in a graveyard both owned by the same player. If both targets are still legal as this ability resolves, that player exchanges those cards.

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Lorn Asbord Schutta
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Post by Lorn Asbord Schutta » 2 years ago

May I ask why "exchange" is used at all after the "both targets are legal" clause? Because I have got an impression that "exchange" already requires both targets to be present, lest it fizzles.
Moreover, I would take the clue from the aforementioned Goblin Welder - this card used "exchange" in its first printing, but later they changed to this more cumbersome template for some reason. I do not know why, but I can wager that it is related to the ambiguity of what happened to the permanent on the battlefield - did it die, thus triggering all relevant abilities? Unless there is some specific reason why you would not like to have a sacrifice component in here, I suggest to change this to Welder template.

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Post by Legend » 2 years ago

Lorn Asbord Schutta wrote:
2 years ago
May I ask why "exchange" is used at all . . . ? . . . Goblin Welder . . . used "exchange" in its first printing,
I was experimenting with the idea of exchanging cards between zones. Guess I was 24 years late. haha Will revert to Goblin Welder template.
“Comboing in Commander is like dunking on a seven foot hoop.” – Dana Roach

“Making a deck that other people want to play against – that’s Commander.” – Gavin Duggan

"I want my brain to win games, not my cards." – Sheldon Menery

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