Varina, Esper Zombie

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Post by pzbw7z » 1 year ago

In: Out: This lowers the curve a little and should provide a little card draw and while the swapped out creatures can produce extra bodies, the swapped in creatures need only resolve to produce extra bodies. Colossus and Rider seem as if they should work, but usually haven't for me. I've had a big Colossus a time or two and they scare people enough to sometimes spend removal, but this isn't a combat deck anyway.

Petition is too often a five-mana spell, which isn't too cool. I do love a tutor, but I also love some card draw. Tocasia's Welcome seems as if it will be fun.

I considered cutting Death Baron and Zombie Master as well, but I just couldn't decide which one.

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Post by pzbw7z » 1 year ago

I had disrespected Tombstone Stairwell a little lately and it reminded me tonight why we love it!

The Zombies had a very respectable board-state, but one of the opponents was getting out of hand, so I cast Living Death with only Sidisi, Undead Vizier and Death Baron in the graveyard after swinging with the team at the threat. Sidisi pulled out Wayward Servant which I cast followed by Stairwell.

With a nine bodies in the 'yard, Servant finished the game pretty quickly. A somewhat novel use of Living Death leading to an nice finish!

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Post by pzbw7z » 1 year ago

Tocasia's Welcome got a try out yesterday; with Varina making tokens on opponents' turns and later Tombstone Stairwell making Zombie tokens as well, it drew a fair few cards. It's still dubious in my mind, but it's good to know it can work if things align. It's mostly a place holder now for Plumb the Forbidden which I haven't been able to round up yet.

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Post by pzbw7z » 1 year ago

Fleshbag Marauder and Relentless Dead took over a game last Friday until somebody rudely reanimated about twelve dragons. Unfortunately, my subsequent attempt to combo kill everyone was thwarted.

Still, it was fun sacrificing the Dead and putting Fleshbag back onto play over and over. The cool kids don't seem to like Fleshbag, but I kind of dig him!

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Post by pzbw7z » 11 months ago

Fleshbag Marauder came up huge again tonight. A game was down to two of us and he had an imposing board state. I had Rooftop Storm and I was able to drop Liliana, Untouched by Death played Fleshbag over and over until he had nothing in play. This was necessary because he had a green creature that kept him from dropping below seven life. After all the creatures are gone, I could combo kill him.

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Post by pokken » 11 months ago

Edicts are very strong in modern commander where people are trying to run more rocks and fewer more impactful creatures. I have seen a single flesh bag absolutely end a game more than once.

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Post by pzbw7z » 10 months ago

In: Out: The new cards are both sacrifice outlets, which can be handy. They also lower the curve a little. Culling provides a little gas, and Plumb seems more generally useful than Windfall; the later can be situationally bad. Twisty has been occasionally quite useful, but he's usually just a card that gets pitched to Varina's looting ability - which isn't all bad, but I hope the ritual will be more generally useful.

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Post by pokken » 10 months ago

Be sure to let me know how Culling the Weak is. I have really thought hard about Songs of the Damned and Culling the Weak at times given how goo dCrypt of Agadeem has been.

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Post by pzbw7z » 10 months ago

pokken wrote:
10 months ago
Be sure to let me know how Culling the Weak is. I have really thought hard about Songs of the Damned and Culling the Weak at times given how goo dCrypt of Agadeem has been.
I play it in Prosper which has about half as many creatures irrespective of tokens and it's frequently useful there; it should be very reliable in Varina. Songs of the Damned is well worth consideration as it can have huge pay outs at times. Another Crypt of Agadeem-like ability is certainly appealing.

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

I'm reviewing cards, starting with creatures. If anyone is paying attention, I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

One-MV Creatures:
Carrion Feeder This guy is a rock star. Sacrificing is the name of the game.
Champion of the Perished This guy is okay. He does scare people and often draws removal but his potential size isn't really part of the game plan. It can be fun to accumulate hundreds of counters just for giggles, but he's actually one of the least important one drops.
Changeling Outcast The ability to trigger Varina without fear is a solid plus for this guy. He's a Knight in addition to a Zombie, so synergy with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge as well as all of the Zombie-related abilities makes this guy very solid.
Cryptbreaker This guy is a superstar, easily one of the best Zombies in any weight class.
Foulmire Knight Mostly this guy is a Knight as well as a Zombie, which is probably enough to be considered solid. Deathtouch is often relevant and the possibility of drawing a card even if at a slightly high mana cost is a bonus.
Gravecrawler This guy needs no justification. If anything, he's too good for casual. If he is, it's tough, he's staying in the list. :)
Shambling Ghast His ability to combo with Liliana, Untouched by Death is more than enough to secure his spot in the list.
Stitcher's Supplier This guy is the most dubious one drop in the list. We like cards in the graveyard, but I like to pick which ones go. I doubt I'll cut him, since I really need more one drops, not less, but if a one drop gets cut or swapped, it's probably this guy.
Universal Automaton He's a Knight and a Zombie, which alone is good enough. He also can be cast with colorless, which allows him to combo with Ashnod's Altar as well as Phyrexian Altar. That bumps his stock up even higher.

The one-drops are pretty solid, some are spectacular, the worst of the bunch is probably Stitcher. I don't have any others in mind that I feel I must add. Putrid Imp is one that I see sometimes.

The two-drop list will drop soon. Stay tuned if you're interested.

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

Here goes the two drops:

Binding Mummy This guy is neat. He makes Varina's Zombie ability a very useful defensive feature. Tapping a fattie on its controller's turn is priceless.
Corpse Knight This guy is probably the best card in this deck. It's win-con #1. Buried Alive gets all of the combo pieces except the Altar. Without Haakon, this guy is not number one, but Haakon makes this guy so very good.
Lazotep Chancellor This guy looks good on paper, but he hasn't done anything for me yet. He's only a two drop with a potential upside, so he probably stays for now.
Lazotep Reaver This card always makes two bodies which is very good for multiple reasons, not least of which is it means two EtB triggers.
Razorlash Transmogrant We can usually recur this guy at BB, which is very handy as we want to cast creatures. This is good enough for a spot. Moreover, he is also easy on the mana when cast from hand and, in theory, can be looped with Ashnod's Altar with an assist from Liliana, Untouched by Death.
Relentless Dead This guy can do stuff. I've used him to recur Fleshbag Marauder before which can provide effective board control. With enough mana and a sac outlet, he allows any EtB to be abused. In practice, it doesn't work out terribly often, but he's still only two to cast and Menace sometimes helps getting risk free Varina triggers. He's good enough for a spot.
Shepherd of Rot This guy can win games. With Varina's lifegain, Ol Shep' can do work.
Tidehollow Sculler I'm really skeptical if this guy is worth running in a casual deck. I know, "Information", "Hand hate". . . I'm a lazy magic player I guess.
Wayward Servant Rock star. He'd be the best card in the deck if Haakon didn't tip the scales in favor of Corpse Knight, but this guy is a hero!
Undead Augur Another star player. Cards are what it's all about.

Chancellor hasn't ever really worked out for me, but he should be able to do some work. His potential is good enough for a two drop for him to stay for now. Tidehollow I could cut even though I know I'm undervaluing him. I'm not sure there's a two drop I'd rather have, but Withered Wretch is one that appeals to me. Ten is a pretty comfortable number of two drops for me.

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Post by yeti1069 » 9 months ago

I'm not so heavily focused on comboing in Varina, and am not running Haakon, but Foulmire, Automaton, and Stitcher both look pretty mediocre. Chancellor never seemed like the thing I'd want to be spending mana on. Razorlash can come back in for cheap, which makes it a decent card to pitch to Varina, but is otherwise a crappy vanilla creature that can't block. I don't know that the recursion ability is valuable enough to warrant the result. Lazotep Reaver I dropped--the two bodies was solid, and means an additional card off Varina, but it felt low impact otherwise.

I like Tidehollow. Sometimes you want to go for a play, but there's a player at the table who may have interaction--this may clear the way. Being recurable is also nice. One of the worst things to happen after a mass reanimate is a board wipe before you can use the new troops, but if this is among the reanimated creatures your chances of coming back around intact go up.

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

Ashnods altar Varina and chancellor go absolutely apeshit. Attack with 5 triggers that's 5 etbs 5 deaths (or a nearly free 6/6 at worst). If you want you can also use the floating mana to make more Varina dudes as well.

It generates a few neat infinites with putrid imp as well (ashnods imp chancellor and a draw effect). Zombie infestation also.

I would probably consider playing it even for value if I was running altars. Because the ability to generate double triggers off kindred discover for example or undead augur etc.

It's a very powerful card.

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

It's a shame that Stitcher's Supplier is so awesome in Rakdos or Grixis but so nearly useless without R. Am I missing a way to abuse this guy in Esper that's even close to Culling the Weak and Underworld Breach?

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

Stitcher's Supplier + Liliana, Untouched by Death + Phyrexian Altar will serve as an infinite since you can mill until you hit any other zombies. :)

It'll make Living Death + Repository Skaab loops go infinite eventually as well (since you'll mill into more dudes).

Hell just Skullclamp'ing it is real good. :)

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

pokken wrote:
9 months ago
Stitcher's Supplier + Liliana, Untouched by Death + Phyrexian Altar will serve as an infinite since you can mill until you hit any other zombies. :)
I probably should have seen this one. . . This is a line that makes me want to have Dread Return.

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

Okay, so there's a fair bit of consensus on one drops and two drops but not so much on three drops. I've cut way down on them since I started, but there are still a few weak spots. One has to go to make room for Putrid Imp. There may be more changes coming, and another three drop may have to go.

So here are the three drops:
Death Baron This guy seems like the most likely cut. Deathtouch is not irrelevant, but he still seems like the guy who contributes least to the game plan.
Fleshbag Marauder This guy is dubious, but SO much fun. I've had a number of good experiences with him including recurring him with Relentless Dead and board-wipeing with Rooftop Storm and Liliana, Untouched by Death.
Haakon, Stromgald Scourge Varina's best boy is just such a good fit.
Lord of the Undead This guy is cut-able; his ability seems useful, but I don't recall ever using it.
Midnight Reaper Cards are good.
Plague Belcher A cheap damage trigger. Not on the level of Wayward Servant or Corpse Knight, but solid. Better than Vengeful Dead or Diregraf Captain.
Zombie Master Also dubious. Swampwalk can win games but combat is not what we do best here.

At this point, I really think one of these guys needs to go to make room for the Imp, but I may wait until I've sorted through the four drops. Right now, Death Baron and Zombie Master are first and second, respectively on the cut list.

There are so many three drops that could be played that I don't even want to begin with it myself. I'm keen to hear what folks can't do without though.

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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

Of those I think Zombie Master is the worst, but Midnight Reaper was never good enough for me. Not drawing off Varina's ability makes it narrower than I'd like. Death Baron has also not been amazing for me, but I don't really care about hitting people so much as attacking :P

If I wanted any anthem effect I would run Undead Warchief first (since it combos with Universal Automaton and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge)

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

Four drops today:

Repository Skaab This guy is money. Being able to reload a heavy hitter such as Living Death is crucial.
Tormod, the Desecrator This guy's ability obviously synergizes well with Varina, but it's not really impactful enough to deserve a slot as a four drop. If I had more effects besides Varina that removed cards from the graveyard, maybe. As is, I've already cut this guy; I just haven't updated the list.
Wonder It's not a Zombie! But it's a highly useful card and with the ease we can bin it with Varina, I like it a lot. Making nearly risk-free attacks is more the point than actually getting damage through, but the latter is sometimes valuable too. Being able to block bad-guy flyers is nice as well.

Graveborn Muse appeals to me, but not doing anything immediately is a bummer; I much prefer my Zombies to have EtBs. Still, I might give this old girl a try.

So as a result of my review, I've cut Zombie Master and Tormod, the Desecrator in favor of Putrid Imp and Master of Death. I got both of the new boys in play last night and both seem to play as expected. Another one drop and another no-brainer pitch are both welcome.

I wonder what other Commanders prize cards that one wants to discard so highly? :)
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Post by pokken » 9 months ago

I don't like Wonder that much if you don't care that much about getting damage through; it's pretty rare that I am denied attacks to trigger varina somehow. Of your 4 drops, the only one I play is Repository Skaab -- Tormod is pretty strong, but kinda expensive if you're not on Crucible of Worlds and other stuff like that. We don't have *that* many ways to generate lots of incremental leaving graveyard effects. It's fundamentally a different deck I think.

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

Okay, five and up - this will be quick!

Gray Merchant of Asphodel Do I need to explain?
Sidisi, Undead Vizier Dubious, but I've made a conscious decision to play only bad tutors, or at least, not the staples, the good ones. I should make an exception for Diabolic Intent, since it's so on-theme. This is a swap - Intent in, Sidisi out - that I could get behind. Prosper has a copy of Intent and it's often bad there but I'd need to replace it with a another tutor. What the hell was I thinking? Sidisi is a rock star! Reanimating Sidisi is so awesome. Sidisi, Liliana, Untouched by Death and Rooftop Storm is bonkers!

There are many high-MV creatures that are more or less playable and I'm sure many of them are fun. But. . . I just don't think any of them have sufficient immediate impact for my deck.
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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

Okay, so the creatures are - more or less - sorted for now; I'm fairly settled on the numbers, ten one drops, ten two drops, thirty one total - though I wouldn't mind having at least one more, but I suspect I may ultimately have to drop one more.

There are a few I still consider dubious; these include:
Tidehollow Sculler Not a bad card by any means, but I'm not that fond of effects that take this much time and effort and I'd rather not fool with other peoples cards any more than I have too. I may test Withered Wretch in it's place, even though Wretch fools with other peoples cards to. I'm not sold on this, as I rarely have extra mana and I'm usually short, but a little gravehate is sometimes exactly what's needed.
Death Baron Deathtouch is often useful, but this guy doesn't really support the main plan, or even the secondary plan.
Fleshbag Marauder I have a soft spot for this guy, and he is sometimes a hero so he will not be the next cut.
Lord of the Undead The anthem is nearly irrelevant for me, and I just don't ever seem to want to use the ability. Still, it seems like a good ability. I went to a good deal of trouble to get this ability stapled to a land - Unholy Grotto.
Midnight Reaper This guy is just so much worse than Undead Augur, but I do love cards and he is a knight; he won't likely be the next cut either.
Wonder I still like this ability, but it doesn't support the main plans directly, or even indirectly really. Tangentially maybe?
Sidisi, Undead Vizier This card is just way too expensive for what it does, but I do want a few tutors and I'm committed to not playing the good ones. Sidisi rocks! No way I'd cut her. I'm thinking of rounding up a copy of Saw in Half to abuse with her.

Okay, that's a fairly long list of dubious cards that are supposed to have been sorted, but I'm not really very keen to ditch any of them and there aren't any Creature cards I'm just dying to try. In addition to the Wretch, I've thought about Graveborn Muse but a four drop that may do something next turn isn't terribly exciting. Murderous Rider // Swift End has a limited appeal, but it's not a strong appeal with both halves of the card slightly over-costed and the creature's Zombie cred significantly neutered. Who wants a Zombie that won't go to the graveyard? It's absurd.

Without Haakon, a number of the one drops in particular wouldn't be as appealing, but I don't know that there are better one drops to be had. Weathered Wayfarer is not here because he's human, which is probably not a good enough reason.

The same logic applies to Snapcaster Mage but humans are what they are and the deck is and shall remain Tribal Zombie. One Incarnation is about as far off tribe as I'm going.
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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

Quick note: Sidisi, Undead Vizier with Rooftop Storm in play is bonkers! I thought that Living Death was the correct play, but I decided to grab Liliana, Untouched by Death instead because I had Fleshbag Marauder in hand and I wanted to have some fun!

It turns out that was the correct play irrespective of fun - there are so many ways to win when you can tutor up and play every creature in your whole deck!

Sidisi will not be replaced.

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Post by pzbw7z » 9 months ago

Testing some different cards:
In Epiphany at the Drownyard, Keep Watch and Sauron's Ransom.
Out Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study and Tocasia's Welcome.

The Rhystic and the Fish are sometimes awesome, but sometimes pretty dead. Welcome can sometimes draw a few extra cards as long as there's fuel for Varina to make Zombies, but it's not really worth a slot.

Keep Watch is probably not good enough, but I got a copy for $0.10. It's an instant and it doesn't matter who's creatures are attacking so I think it's clearly better than things such as Pact of the Serpent. The real question is, is it better than Windfall?

The other two swaps I feel fine about, I think they will both be solid, if not spectacular.

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Post by pzbw7z » 8 months ago

Fierce Guardianship in for Dispel. I've got a copy of Swan Song lined up to replace Negate.

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