Zedruu the Greatest of All Time

[Zyren]

Has anyone thought about adding All Will Be One and Vexing Puzzlebox? My group absolutely hates knowledge pool and was thinking of replacing it with all will be one. There's a lot of 4-5 card combos with it already in the deck. Crystalline Crawler , walking archive, and Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper already work pretty well with it for generating counters. Vexing puzzlebox can also late-game fetch a combo piece we're missing if its an artifact.

That sounds like a reasonable strategy to pursue, but I wouldn't consider Knowledge Pool and All Will Be One as the same category of card. All Will Be One is a lot more like Pandemonium, not only because of the targeted damage aspect, but also because on its own it does absolutely nothing. Synergy pieces are great, especially ones that kill opponents, but you only get so many of those before things get clunky, even when drawing like 4 cards a turn. A hand that's something like Eye of the Storm, Barren Glory, and Pandemonium and a few lands just doesn't do anything at all, and All Will Be One fits right in that category. Knowledge Pool isn't like that, it's not an empty topdeck, it can give you immediate access to 6-12 more cards as options (as well as messing with other people's plans), replacing it with a pure synergy piece that offers nothing on its own is asking for clunkier play.

If anything, I'd look at Vexing Puzzlebox as replacing Knowledge Pool, and then find your least favorite big do-nothing synergy piece as the second card to cut for All Will Be One.

Thanks for the response. I took what you said and started doing some brainstorming. With the print of Quintorious Kand, it makes pulling knowledge pool out even harder, So i might keep it in. I agree that pulling pandemonium for all will be one is the better move. I was considering putting in the following package:

All Will Be One
Vexing Puzzlebox
Astral Cornucopia
Dismantle
Archangel of Thune
Darksteel Reactor

Archangel of thune + opalescence + all will be one + jeskai charm is an infinite combo triggered on gaining life. All will be one will do damage when the counters are generated, then gain life from lifelink. the angel will gain counters on the life. Repeat until everyone is dead.

vexing puzzlebox + saheeli / dismantle + darksteel reactor + MoM. tap / untap vexing puzzlebox until you have at least 20 counters. turn vexing puzzlebox into a copy of darksteel reactor with saheeli or dismantle it and put the counters on the reactor. This could technically be a 3 card combo if you roll a natural 20. I think a critical hit deserves that 3 card combo?

dismantle + darksteel reactor + eye of the storm + 5 instant / sorcery triggers off eye of the storm. darksteel reactor needs to be in play with at least 1 charge counter on it. if you cast dismantle on it 5 times, it'll go from 1 => 2 => 4 => 8 => 16 => 32 counters and will win the game. 2 counters requires only 4 triggers.

Archangel of thune + precursor golem + dismantle + darksteel reactor. When dismantle targets a golem, you can move those counters onto the golem thats getting targeted next. the final golem can dump those onto darksteel reactor or something like astral cornucopia to make a DIY azor's gateway. If you give the golems indestructible, the don't die, keep their counters, and dismantle also generates the counters for the next golem. You'll need 7 counters on the golems to pull off a win with darksteel reactor.

Theres also other combos with all will be one where it takes pandemonium's place. like crystalline crawler bouncing.

I've thought about how I can get more lifegain triggers for the archangel without sacrificing the consistency of the deck. There's the new Quintorious Kand. Theres Kwain, Itinerant Meddler, Seraph Sanctuary, Sun Droplet, and Shabraz, the Skyshark. I'm not sure if sun droplet or shabraz are good enough for the deck.

Thoughts on the direction here? I haven't had a chance to play with the changes yet. I realize darksteel reactor is a pretty dead card outside of winning with it. I'm not sure what to take out yet. I want to keep barren glory in as well.

[tstorm823]

Thanks for the response. I took what you said and started doing some brainstorming. With the print of Quintorious Kand, it makes pulling knowledge pool out even harder, So i might keep it in. I agree that pulling pandemonium for all will be one is the better move. I was considering putting in the following package:

All Will Be One
Vexing Puzzlebox
Astral Cornucopia
Dismantle
Archangel of Thune
Darksteel Reactor

Archangel of thune + opalescence + all will be one + jeskai charm is an infinite combo triggered on gaining life. All will be one will do damage when the counters are generated, then gain life from lifelink. the angel will gain counters on the life. Repeat until everyone is dead.

vexing puzzlebox + saheeli / dismantle + darksteel reactor + MoM. tap / untap vexing puzzlebox until you have at least 20 counters. turn vexing puzzlebox into a copy of darksteel reactor with saheeli or dismantle it and put the counters on the reactor. This could technically be a 3 card combo if you roll a natural 20. I think a critical hit deserves that 3 card combo?

dismantle + darksteel reactor + eye of the storm + 5 instant / sorcery triggers off eye of the storm. darksteel reactor needs to be in play with at least 1 charge counter on it. if you cast dismantle on it 5 times, it'll go from 1 => 2 => 4 => 8 => 16 => 32 counters and will win the game. 2 counters requires only 4 triggers.

Archangel of thune + precursor golem + dismantle + darksteel reactor. When dismantle targets a golem, you can move those counters onto the golem thats getting targeted next. the final golem can dump those onto darksteel reactor or something like astral cornucopia to make a DIY azor's gateway. If you give the golems indestructible, the don't die, keep their counters, and dismantle also generates the counters for the next golem. You'll need 7 counters on the golems to pull off a win with darksteel reactor.

Theres also other combos with all will be one where it takes pandemonium's place. like crystalline crawler bouncing.

I've thought about how I can get more lifegain triggers for the archangel without sacrificing the consistency of the deck. There's the new Quintorious Kand. Theres Kwain, Itinerant Meddler, Seraph Sanctuary, Sun Droplet, and Shabraz, the Skyshark. I'm not sure if sun droplet or shabraz are good enough for the deck.

Thoughts on the direction here? I haven't had a chance to play with the changes yet. I realize darksteel reactor is a pretty dead card outside of winning with it. I'm not sure what to take out yet. I want to keep barren glory in as well.

I would personally look at Puzzlebox + Darsksteel Reactor + Dismantle as a 3 card combo, but I don't think it's too strong a strategy that you're going to be disappointed if/when you pull it off. Running Darksteel Reactor and Barren Glory in the same deck is certainly nowhere near "too strong" territory. It's definitely greedy.

I've played a few different life gain packages in here, and Drogskol Reaver is definitely worth a look if you're building that direction.

I do like the interesting uses of dismantle you have here. Combo uses for removal spells are always welcome.

[Ryujin76]

Thanks for the response. I took what you said and started doing some brainstorming. With the print of Quintorious Kand, it makes pulling knowledge pool out even harder, So i might keep it in. I agree that pulling pandemonium for all will be one is the better move. I was considering putting in the following package:
*snip*

The counters matters package you propose is very cool (and will live rent free in my head for the foreseeable future). Dismantle is a card I have not really looked at before, but I kind of love it. Mentioned previously somewhere in this thread, Rise and Shine could replace March of the Machines to add more counter synergy.

Darksteel Reactor doesn't do anything by itself, it does act as a combo piece for existing packages. The indestructible lets it participate in Arcbond combos, as well as being a relatively safe card to donate away. Also as you mentioned, it has cute synergy with "destroy for value" cards like Cavalier of Dawn. Mirrorweaving yourself an army of Sphinxes for 20 upkeeps is most definitely overkill and I'm here for it.

A counterpoint I have though is regarding the mentioned vexing puzzlebox + saheeli / dismantle + darksteel reactor + MoM combo. Since you can have the puzzlebox building counters long (probably not that long to build 20 counters) before you deploy the other pieces, it can lead to a surprise 3 card combo where you just drop the reactor and saheeli/dismantle once the puzzlebox is sufficiently puzzled. Edit: Whoops did not see the response by tstorm above. But yeah I think the most difficult thing about Darksteel Reactor is finding a cut, since it definitely falls in the Pandemonium category of cards discussed previously.

Regarding the lifegain package, have you considered Aetherflux Reservoir? Plays well with all the casting synergies and can be a potential wincon.

[Zyren]

I'll have to think about drogskol reaver and Aetherflux Reservoir . They are both very good cards, but I'm not sure if slotting them would help the deck more because i would probably lose other combos / synergies from cards I would have to take out. It's a hard balance. Rise and Shine seems really strong. Definitely a tradeoff between losing some synergies with stuff like coveted jewel, a donate target, etc but those counters can be explosive.

I was looking at possibly adding Deekah, Fractal Theorist or Chrome Host Seedshark. They are both similar to saheeli in terms of generating tokens, but generate a lot of counters at the same time. I'm hoping to have a final decklist ready within the week that i can start testing.

[ihatemaryfisher]

The counters matters package you propose is very cool (and will live rent free in my head for the foreseeable future). Dismantle is a card I have not really looked at before, but I kind of love it. Mentioned previously somewhere in this thread, Rise and Shine could replace March of the Machines to add more counter synergy.

Darksteel Reactor doesn't do anything by itself, it does act as a combo piece for existing packages. The indestructible lets it participate in Arcbond combos, as well as being a relatively safe card to donate away. Also as you mentioned, it has cute synergy with "destroy for value" cards like Cavalier of Dawn. Mirrorweaving yourself an army of Sphinxes for 20 upkeeps is most definitely overkill and I'm here for it.

I've never seen Dismantle before. It and Darksteel Reactor can synergize with Bonus Round, Narset's Reversal , or Reverberate to double its counters multiple times. If you're running Liquimetal Torque then Dismantle becomes extremely opportunistic, taking down somebody's Managorger Hydra or Forgotten Ancient etc. I would also love to cast it on The Ozolith.

Radiate is always in the back of my head as I think about new combos in this deck. Dismantle +Radiate +Darksteel Reactor + 16 counters on artifacts around the board is a fun opportunistic combo. Rise and Shine makes it easier, I suppose.

[tstorm823]

The more I think about it, the more I can see myself trying out some of this, but probably just without Vexing Puzzlebox.

[Zyren]

Radiate seems really fun. I was planning on adding Liquimetal Torque since the synergy with dismantle, saheeli, and a couple other cards are really nice.

Hmm, I'm starting to really like Shabraz, the Skyshark over Aetherflux Reservoir and Drogskol Reaver as a life gain source. I feel like life gain per card is way easier than whenever you cast a spell or attack. There's also a 3 card loop with Shabraz, the Skyshark , All Will Be One, and Swans of Bryn Argoll to get as many draw cards (and life) as you want until you find a win condition to make it 4+ cards.

Resourceful Defense can act as a backup for dismantle, but it's not as useful as in a dedicated charge counter deck since the only reliable way to make many charge counters is with Vexing Puzzlebox.

the new card The Millennium Calendar is kinda hilarious because of synergies with Sphinx of the Second Sun but i think Darksteel Reactor is a better wincon.

[Ryujin76]

I'll have to think about drogskol reaver and Aetherflux Reservoir . They are both very good cards, but I'm not sure if slotting them would help the deck more because i would probably lose other combos / synergies from cards I would have to take out. It's a hard balance. Rise and Shine seems really strong. Definitely a tradeoff between losing some synergies with stuff like coveted jewel, a donate target, etc but those counters can be explosive.

I was looking at possibly adding Deekah, Fractal Theorist or Chrome Host Seedshark. They are both similar to saheeli in terms of generating tokens, but generate a lot of counters at the same time. I'm hoping to have a final decklist ready within the week that i can start testing.

I've always wanted to play with the Phyrexian Shark. Incubate tokens allow for fun shenanigans like turbo flipping Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun or boardwiping with March of the Machines and Mirrorweave. However, I just know that tracking the incubate tokens is going to cause headaches, and headaches are only reserved for combos.

With LCI coming out soon, I'm prepping for some changes in my own list. Was wondering if anyone here has tried Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse in place of one of the other flash enablers? The easy transformation allows it to do turbo Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun, and the cost reduction opens up some combos like Venser, Shaper Savant + Cadric, Soul Kindler + Relic of Legends or Lore Drakkis + Leave // Chance + some cheap creature + enough mana rocks.

[Zyren]

I'll have to think about drogskol reaver and Aetherflux Reservoir . They are both very good cards, but I'm not sure if slotting them would help the deck more because i would probably lose other combos / synergies from cards I would have to take out. It's a hard balance. Rise and Shine seems really strong. Definitely a tradeoff between losing some synergies with stuff like coveted jewel, a donate target, etc but those counters can be explosive.

I was looking at possibly adding Deekah, Fractal Theorist or Chrome Host Seedshark. They are both similar to saheeli in terms of generating tokens, but generate a lot of counters at the same time. I'm hoping to have a final decklist ready within the week that i can start testing.

I've always wanted to play with the Phyrexian Shark. Incubate tokens allow for fun shenanigans like turbo flipping Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun or boardwiping with March of the Machines and Mirrorweave. However, I just know that tracking the incubate tokens is going to cause headaches, and headaches are only reserved for combos.

With LCI coming out soon, I'm prepping for some changes in my own list. Was wondering if anyone here has tried Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse in place of one of the other flash enablers? The easy transformation allows it to do turbo Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun, and the cost reduction opens up some combos like Venser, Shaper Savant + Cadric, Soul Kindler + Relic of Legends or Lore Drakkis + Leave // Chance + some cheap creature + enough mana rocks.

I think Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse could be pretty good. I have a lot of creatures in my deck so I was thinking of replacing Cavalier of Dawn and Tidal Barracuda with Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse and Dance of the Manse. Dance of the manse can be great late game in getting your cards back and also acting as a replacement for Opalescence and March of the Machines to combo out. It can also be a cheap sorcery to pitch to possibility storm / eye of the storm / knowledge pool if those are online.

some interesting combos I've come across while doing some research:

Nine Lives + Fractured Identity + Angel's Grace + mass removal like Cleansing Meditation or Catch // Release.
Nine Lives + Fractured Identity + Angel's Grace + Shadowspear + Detention Sphere .
Nine Lives + Fractured Identity + Angel's Grace + Opalescence + arcbond + some way to trigger 3+ damage to a creature .

Cast nine lives. Cast angels grace and then fractured identity to give all your opponents a nine lives. Then, use one of several ways to destroy all your opponents nine lives.

alternatively, you could copy nine lives twice with replication technique and donate 3 of them away with zedruu. or use Opalescence and make multiple copies with mirrorweave or saheeli.

@tstorm823 i know you like your removal spells that are combo pieces. here you go. I also know you don't care for nine lives much but maybe this might convince you? I think Fractured identity is a very powerful card in this deck. Its removal, its sort of group hug, it can cause a lot of chaos, and its a combo piece.

Angel's Grace + Chance for Glory + Unbender Tine / Thespian's Stage + Mistveil Plains + River Song / Sunforger

River song: Cast angel's grace and chance for glory. put both on the bottom of your library with mistveil plains. Draw both next turn with river song (assuming you can draw 2+ cards a turn). Rinse and repeat.

Sunforger: fetch and cast chance for glory with sunforger. fetch and cast angel's grace with sunforger. use mistveil plains + unbender tine to put both back in your library. next turn rinse and repeat.

Regenerations Restored is also a pretty fun card with River Song and Fractured Identity. Give all your opponents a regenerations restored and they get pinged every turn by river song. if river song is sufficiently large, it could be a game ender in 1 round. Its also a life gain source and a counter source. you can use Resourceful Defense to move the time counters onto something like Trenzalore Clocktower to gain a turn and possibly draw 7 if you have river song out. unfortunately Midnight Clock uses hour counters and not time counters.

[Zyren]

Ok, this is what I've come up with so far...

Zedruu counters

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander(1)

1 Zedruu the Greathearted

Creatures (17)

1 Gilded Drake

1 Scheming Fence

1 The Reality Chip

1 Chrome Host Seedshark

1 Lore Drakkis

1 River Song

1 Vedalken Plotter

1 Walking Archive

1 Crystalline Crawler

1 Golden Guardian // Gold-Forge Garrison

1 Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse

1 Swans of Bryn Argoll

1 Archangel of Thune

1 Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper

1 Precursor Golem

1 Shabraz, the Skyshark

1 Sphinx of the Second Sun

Planeswalkers (3)

1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer

1 Quintorius Kand

1 Venser, the Sojourner

Artifacts (14)

1 Astral Cornucopia

1 Shadowspear

1 Arcane Signet

1 Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun

1 Howling Mine

1 Liquimetal Torque

1 Pentad Prism

1 Inspiring Statuary

1 Pendant of Prosperity

1 Relic of Legends

1 Vexing Puzzlebox

1 Font of Mythos

1 Coveted Jewel

1 Knowledge Pool

Enchantment (12)

1 Regenerations Restored

1 Detention Sphere

1 Dictate of Kruphix

1 Jeskai Ascendancy

1 Nine Lives

1 Resourceful Defense

1 March of the Machines

1 Opalescence

1 All Will Be One

1 Possibility Storm

1 Mind Over Matter

1 Eye of the Storm

Instants (11)

1 Angel's Grace

1 Firestorm

1 Stifle

1 Electrodominance

1 Arcbond

1 Chance for Glory

1 Jeskai Charm

1 Mirrorweave

1 Turnabout

1 Vanish into Memory

1 Leave // Chance

Sorceries (9)

1 Dance of the Manse

1 Shatterskull Smashing // Shatterskull, the Hammer Pass

1 Dismantle

1 Role Reversal

1 Fractured Identity

1 Replication Technique

1 Mind's Desire

1 Time Spiral

1 Sea Gate Restoration // Sea Gate, Reborn

Land (33)

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Arid Mesa

1 Azorius Chancery

1 Boros Garrison

1 Cascade Bluffs

1 Celestial Colonnade

1 City of Brass

1 Command Tower

1 Deserted Beach

1 Forbidden Orchard

1 Gemstone Mine

3 Island

1 Izzet Boilerworks

1 Magosi, the Waterveil

1 Mistveil Plains

1 Mountain

1 Mystic Gate

1 Mystic Monastery

1 Path of Ancestry

2 Plains

1 Raugrin Triome

1 Reliquary Tower

1 Rugged Prairie

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Stormcarved Coast

1 Temple of Enlightenment

1 Temple of Epiphany

1 Thespian's Stage

1 Trenzalore Clocktower

1 Volcanic Island

Approximate Total Cost:

I tried to add as many combos as I removed with the cards i took out. It's hard to count with the amount of crazy stuff going on with these decks. I went over a lot of the combos I added in the previous posts I made over the last few days. I will be playtesting this (with a quintorious proxy) the next time i get together with friends.

[Sefir]

There's also a 3 card loop with Shabraz, the Skyshark , All Will Be One, and Swans of Bryn Argoll to get as many draw cards (and life) as you want until you find a win condition to make it 4+ cards.

Not only drawing your entire deck is rightly considered a 3-card winning combo, but also this wont work, since All will be One targets only opponents/opponents stuff.

Nine Lives +.....

While the deck does have its fair use of semi-useless stuff for the shake of fun (Hi Barren Glory), a) Nine Lives will give everyone on the table, ESPECIALLY the one we gifted it, the initiative to kill us on sight with all their resources (this is why we dont play "evil gifts" Zedruu), b) generally most tables will find it extremely unfun (I know, I know.... the deck also uses cards like Possibility Storm), c) Yes, killing an opponent with Zedruu+Nine Lives is a 2-card combo in most people's eyes. Fractured Identity is a nice card to play though.



From all the other cards mentioned here, I mostly loved the creative use of Dismantle, especially alongside with Vexing Puzzlebox, a card I am looking more and more. I am not even thinking about their use alongside Darksteel Reactor, but with things like Everflowing Chalice or Pentad Prism. Even freakin Walking Archive. The problem is that Dismantle is a bit narrow, even for this deck's standards and, most importantly, a Sorcery. As for Puzzlebox, having a 3-cmc mana rock that can give me 40 mana if Saheeli and a Pentad Prism or whatever are also in play is something worthy to think about my list too.
All Will Be One is a great card as well, but it requires very specific build for it to work properly, not just 2-3 unique 4-card combos....

[Ryujin76]

There's also a 3 card loop with Shabraz, the Skyshark , All Will Be One, and Swans of Bryn Argoll to get as many draw cards (and life) as you want until you find a win condition to make it 4+ cards.

Not only drawing your entire deck is rightly considered a 3-card winning combo, but also this wont work, since All will be One targets only opponents/opponents stuff.

This can be easily fixed with Zedruu donating the swans, making it a 3.5(?) card combo (not sure if Zedruu herself counts as a full card cause of her being always available in the command zone)

I do agree with Sefir that while Nine Lives is a very interesting and cool card, it does slot itself firmly in the "bad gifts" pile and will probably draw more hate than is worth it. That being said, Zedruu is freedom, so definitely get a few games in with it to see how it plays (and report back so I can collect more ideas).

The only real "bad gift" I have thought of playing would be Illusions of Grandeur, as it can be grabbed from the graveyard with the newly added Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse, bounced with the Vensers (the wording on Venser, the Sojourner allows you to blink a donated illusions which is super cute), give a burst of life for Aetherflux Reservoir and good ol Mirrorweave + Opalescence + some way to pop them.

I was thinking of Vexing Puzzlebox as a whole counters package with the other cards, but it does fit in the current list by itself quite nicely. Along the way, I forgot that the floor for that card is just a 3cmc mana rock, which is perfectly fine. Just kind of wish it didn't tutor.

[Sefir]

There's also a 3 card loop with Shabraz, the Skyshark , All Will Be One, and Swans of Bryn Argoll to get as many draw cards (and life) as you want until you find a win condition to make it 4+ cards.

Not only drawing your entire deck is rightly considered a 3-card winning combo, but also this wont work, since All will be One targets only opponents/opponents stuff.

This can be easily fixed with Zedruu donating the swans, making it a 3.5(?) card combo (not sure if Zedruu herself counts as a full card cause of her being always available in the command zone)

Ah, yes, ofc you are right on that. Or Mirrorweave. Now it fits the bill.

I was thinking of Vexing Puzzlebox as a whole counters package with the other cards, but it does fit in the current list by itself quite nicely. Along the way, I forgot that the floor for that card is just a 3cmc mana rock, which is perfectly fine. Just kind of wish it didn't tutor.

I have personally semi-abandoned the no-tutor clause in the deck since I have tried Oath of Lieges (a wonderful gift that allows everyone on the table to play, thus improving gameplay experience. A pet card of mine) in the past and nowdays I run Land Tax. But, honestly, the Puzzlebox tutor will happen maybe once per game after many turns so it is very passable. Even tstorm was using Nahiri, the Harbinger for a while that does have a search ability in her ulti.

[Ryujin76]

I have personally semi-abandoned the no-tutor clause in the deck since I have tried Oath of Lieges (a wonderful gift that allows everyone on the table to play, thus improving gameplay experience. A pet card of mine) in the past and nowdays I run Land Tax. But, honestly, the Puzzlebox tutor will happen maybe once in a game after many turns so it is very passable. Even tstorm was using Nahiri, the Harbinger for a while that does have a search ability in her ulti.

Very good points, 100 charge counters does take a while to build into even with all the untap shenanigans in the deck. I guess I'll be on the lookout for a copy next time I visit a card store (just what I needed for Zedruu, more cards in the pile)

[benjithegreat]

With LCI coming out soon, I'm prepping for some changes in my own list. Was wondering if anyone here has tried Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse in place of one of the other flash enablers? The easy transformation allows it to do turbo Azor's Gateway // Sanctum of the Sun, and the cost reduction opens up some combos like Venser, Shaper Savant + Cadric, Soul Kindler + Relic of Legends or Lore Drakkis + Leave // Chance + some cheap creature + enough mana rocks.

I have played about 30 games with Heliod, the Radiant Dawn. It honestly is very powerful, and I run it over both Leyline and Vedelkan Orrery. It's a bit more expensive mana wise, but having the cost reduction on every spell is so huge. With Howling Mine effects, people naturally wanting to draw cards, and Time Spiral/Temporal Cascade, Heliod enables lots of shenanigans. My playgroup now properly respects it and usually tries to counterspell or kill it on site, and I can't blame them.

[ihatemaryfisher]

It's probably worth somebody compiling and posting about all the possible flash enablers. I'll start with all the ones I've seen people mention:

Permanents
Leyline of Anticipation*
Vedalken Orrery *
Tidal Barracuda *
Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage
Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse
Shimmer Myr
Gandalf the White

Non-permanents
Electrodominance*
Borne Upon a Wind
*most popular

Flash enablers draw a lot of suspicion, and typically do nothing the turn they're played. Shoutout however to Tidal Barracuda—which my opponents LOVE (so far). It's like giving them a trial version of the Zedruu deck. It's also fun to outmaneuver my opponents even when they have flash.

I was disappointed by Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse. When it went off, it worked, allowing me to dump my hand onto the board. But it's a 7-mana investment to get there and felt like win-more. I rarely got the enchantment resurrection.

[Sefir]

Shoutout however to Tidal Barracuda—which my opponents LOVE (so far). It's like giving them a trial version of Zedruu the Greathearted. It's also fun to outmaneuver my opponents even when they have flash.

It can be a hit n miss on my experience, depending on the opponents. I remember when I first playtested it, my opponents used to kill it on sight based on their fear of the Silence effect in my turn (and kinda rightfully tbh...). It took me about a year to start playtesting it again, against the very same playgroup, and the card is rarely a target anymore.

[Ryujin76]

It's probably worth somebody compiling and posting about all the possible flash enablers. I'll start with all the ones I've seen people mention:

Permanents
Leyline of Anticipation*
Vedalken Orrery *
Tidal Barracuda *
Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage
Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse
Shimmer Myr
Gandalf the White

Non-permanents
Electrodominance*
Borne Upon a Wind
*most popular

Flash enablers draw a lot of suspicion, and typically do nothing the turn they're played. Shoutout however to Tidal Barracuda—which my opponents LOVE (so far). It's like giving them a trial version of Zedruu the Greathearted. It's also fun to outmaneuver my opponents even when they have flash.

I was disappointed by Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse. When it went off, it worked, allowing me to dump my hand onto the board. But it's a 7-mana investment to get there and felt like win-more. I rarely got the enchantment resurrection.

Since you mentioned Shimmer Myr, I would like to add to the list

Liberator, Urza's Battlethopter
Skittering Cicada
Emergence Zone

I don't see myself trying any of these out, but it's always fun to look at alternatives.

[Sefir]

After some playtesting with Vexing Puzzlebox, I have decided to stay away from it. While it is a cool card in theory (and with a very cool name too), the fact is that rolling a dice every time you tap it, just spends time. And yes, there might be Saheeli, Sublime Artificer shenanigans or Dismantle shenanigans or you might have All Will Be One on the table. But In most games, the dice roll will do absolutely nothing. It will not even reach the tutor ability. It just adds to the clock and this is something I dont think I want to do. Perhaps it is different if you have multiple effects to abuse the counters or multiple dice rolls (Replication Technique it? Turn it a creature and then Mirrorweave?) to speed up the process, but as it stands in my list, it will just make the game more unfun for the entire table. Thus, my advice for whoever wants to use it is this: Either go all-in with counters and use it (like Zyren's list) or not use it at all.

[tstorm823]

@tstorm823 i know you like your removal spells that are combo pieces. here you go. I also know you don't care for nine lives much but maybe this might convince you? I think Fractured identity is a very powerful card in this deck. Its removal, its sort of group hug, it can cause a lot of chaos, and its a combo piece.

No dispute from me on any of that. It's also pretty goofy with a couple Precursor Golems in play. I'm just not interested in Nine Lives personally, but I'm sure you'll have a fun time with Fractured Identity.

River Song / Sunforger

River Song is 1000% the more interesting of the two options. I know it requires a bit more setup than just Sunforger, but I have difficulty imagining opponents being excited by an "infinite tutor out infinite extra turns" victory. Using Mistveil Plains with River Song is both delightful and color-combo specific.

This can be easily fixed with Zedruu donating the swans, making it a 3.5(?) card combo (not sure if Zedruu herself counts as a full card cause of her being always available in the command zone)

I definitely count that as a full 4th piece. Even if Zedruu is always available, paying the mana to donate and having an opponent you can target who can't sacrifice the donation is in total pretty restrictive.

I have personally semi-abandoned the no-tutor clause in the deck since I have tried Oath of Lieges (a wonderful gift that allows everyone on the table to play, thus improving gameplay experience. A pet card of mine) in the past and nowdays I run Land Tax. But, honestly, the Puzzlebox tutor will happen maybe once per game after many turns so it is very passable. Even tstorm was using Nahiri, the Harbinger for a while that does have a search ability in her ulti.

Oh, the tutor part of Vexing Puzzlebox I have no problem with. If the search is something as specific as "basic land" or requires many turns of setup, it's not the kind of tutor that people don't like. The issue of tutors is that they give people immediate access to a versatile toolbox of cards which takes away a lot of the good variance in the game. Vexing Puzzlebox is neither a "solve any problem" search effect nor an easy effect to activate in the first place.

My problem with Vexing Puzzlebox is that we are discussing it in basically 3 different modes:
1) It's a manalith that might sneak out an artifact for free, but rarely, and requires a bunch of effort to track
2) We have it with All Will Be One, so it basically taps to kick Urza's Rage, which probably ends up aiming at creatures since even averaging 10 damage a turn is too slow against 3 opponents, so really we've created something more like an Avatar of Woe.
3) We use Dismantle to put the counters on Darksteel Reactor and win the game with a 3-card win-the-game combo.

I don't like any of those options. They all work, they just don't appeal to me. The idea of donating Swans so that All Will Be One can hit it is infinitely more appealing to me, and I wouldn't mind a more counters-matter approach to make Crystalline Crawler pop. I just don't see myself getting joy from Puzzlebox.

[Sefir]

My problem with Vexing Puzzlebox is that we are discussing it in basically 3 different modes:
1) It's a manalith that might sneak out an artifact for free, but rarely, and requires a bunch of effort to track
2) We have it with All Will Be One, so it basically taps to kick Urza's Rage, which probably ends up aiming at creatures since even averaging 10 damage a turn is too slow against 3 opponents, so really we've created something more like an Avatar of Woe.
3) We use Dismantle to put the counters on Darksteel Reactor and win the game with a 3-card win-the-game combo.

I don't like any of those options. They all work, they just don't appeal to me.

I don't like these options either, but I was mostly considering it as a manalith that can turbocharge the deck alongside Saheeli, Sublime Artificier+Pentad Prism/Astral Cornucopia/Everflowing Chalice, but I realized it is a very specific situation that is simply not worth it (mostly for the dice time consuming reasons), despite the fact that "just a Manalith" is a high floor.

[tstorm823]

I don't like these options either, but I was mostly considering it as a manalith that can turbocharge the deck alongside Saheeli, Sublime Artificier+Pentad Prism/Astral Cornucopia/Everflowing Chalice, but I realized it is a very specific situation that is simply not worth it (mostly for the dice time consuming reasons), despite the fact that "just a Manalith" is a high floor.

That might be use for my old buddy (that I never did much with) Myr Welder, which would be able to take on both Pentad Prism and Vexing Puzzlebox's abilities.

[IAMAfortunecookieAMA]

All I do to keep things fresh between decks is just try not to overlap strategies too much. I've had as many as 12 decks assembled at a time back when basically every set inspired me to build something new, but I'm pretty happy with my 6 different styles, where I can adjust to what the table is lacking pretty well (when I'm not just playing Zedruu).

Hey tstorm, do you have any of these lists online? I would really like to see Yurlok especially but I always enjoy seeing your deckbuilding style so i'm interested in the others as well. Cheers!

[tstorm823]

Hey tstorm, do you have any of these lists online? I would really like to see Yurlok especially but I always enjoy seeing your deckbuilding style so i'm interested in the others as well. Cheers!

Not really. I have a version of the banding list on this site in a thread I don't maintain, and a version of Olivia on mtgsalvation in a thread I've not maintained for even longer.

That being said, I can probably type them up (or just a few) in here sometime this week when I've got a free couple hours at home.

I would say Mathis and Yurlok are decks with potential to be like Zedruu with enough love and care, they've got interesting confluences of ideas melding together, they just never got the years of me playing them like 5 days a week while constantly thinking "that's a fun idea, I wonder if I can fit that in Zedruu" until I ran out of space in the deck and had to start really refining them. The other 3 (Olivia, Shorikai, and 5-color Banding) I would not say are built like this deck at all. The gameplans with those are very straightforward. Also, I think next time I do a big mix-up, 5 colors is going to be Naya instead, and Shorikai deserves a replacement, cause bad control with polymorph in it interests me exactly as little as either bad control decks or polymorph decks do, as it turns out.

[Sefir]

I have decided to give Heliod, the Radiant Dawn // Heliod, the Warped Eclipse a chance. While I do believe that the mana needed to turn him into a superbuffed Leyline of Anticipation is overcosted, I think I might have evaluated the card wrong. The enchantment recursion can be equally or even more important if used correctly. Apart from the obvious combos that need flash, Heliod can also have its own combo along with Wormfang Manta, Tishana's Tidebinder and one of my favorite cards ever that I always wanted to put in the deck but could not find a suitable combo for it, Parallax Wave (mind you, I have stopped running Opalescence a long time ago, thus no 2-3 card infinites). And since I am not considering Heliod for its back side (again, the option is welcome), he will not take a spot of my other 2 flash enablers (Leyline and Tidal Barracuda). I need to cut something else, but this is a pleasant headache.