Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[pokken]

I think even lean decks should play gary. He's very good at closing games and the massive lifegain is important to have on tap for a deck that is going to be swinging out and shields down a lot of the time. It's the best curve topper. I'm not going to say I wouldn't cut it ever, but so far it's been very good at closing games that I can't combo in.

I should add that the more fair your low curve deck steers the better Gary is, as Gary can let you spread damage from your anthemed dudes out and them finish everyone at once with a gary or double gary. So the more anthem creatures you're on the more gary good, usually.

[Rframpt]

Good day folks.
Been following the development of Varina and I have been wondering: Did anybody have any experience with the Foretell cards such as, Comic intervention, Haunting voyage, Rise of the dread marn and Mystic Reflection?

As my curve have most of my creatures in the 3 mana slot with few creatures above that I think the Foretell might be good setup cards for later turns

[pokken]

Did anybody have any experience with the Foretell cards such as, Comic intervention, Haunting voyage, Rise of the dread marn and Mystic Reflection?

I still run cosmic and it's very good. Foretelling it gives you another 2 drop and the you can sit on it forever if needed, or use it as a ramp spell, etc, etc.

[pzbw7z]

Haunting Voyage looks pretty bad to me, the others look fine. Cosmic Intervention seems to be the best of the bunch.

[toctheyounger]

Agreed, i think if we're on anything its Cosmic. Doubles as ramp and resilience which is really nice. Everything else is kinda average. Reflection is a great card but I don't feel like there's a ton of great targets for us here, so its not something I have my eye on personally.

[toctheyounger]

So, someone mentioned Ad Naus a few weeks back. I wondered if anyone had tried it out? I've done a little goldfishing and I can generally grab an average of maybe 20 odd cards if not more without bleeding myself out. I think its probably worth an add in the long run.

[pzbw7z]

So, someone mentioned Ad Naus a few weeks back. I wondered if anyone had tried it out? I've done a little goldfishing and I can generally grab an average of maybe 20 odd cards if not more without bleeding myself out. I think its probably worth an add in the long run.

I wrote a rough draft list that includes it but I don't know for sure I even want to play the new list. I think the total MV is a little high for an Ad Nauseam deck yet.

Varina Tryhard list

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Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Varina, Lich Queen

Planeswalkers

1 Liliana, Untouched by Death

Creatures

1 Carrion Feeder

1 Changeling Outcast

1 Cryptbreaker

1 Foulmire Knight

1 Gravecrawler

1 Shambling Ghast

1 Stitcher's Supplier

1 Universal Automaton

1 Corpse Knight

1 Relentless Dead

1 Shepherd of Rot

1 Tidehollow Sculler

1 Undead Augur

1 Wayward Servant

1 Acererak the Archlich

1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge

1 Liliana's Standard Bearer

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Plague Belcher

1 Vengeful Dead

1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel

1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier

Artifacts

1 Chrome Mox

1 Jeweled Lotus

1 Lotus Petal

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mox Amber

1 Mox Opal

1 Mana Vault

1 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Sol Ring

1 Springleaf Drum

1 Arcane Signet

1 Fellwar Stone

1 Talisman of Dominance

1 Talisman of Progress

1 Wishclaw Talisman

1 Phyrexian Altar

1 Bolas's Citadel

Enchantments

1 Mystic Remora

1 Rhystic Study

1 Rooftop Storm

Instants

1 An Offer You Can't Refuse

1 Culling the Weak

1 Chain of Vapor

1 Dark Ritual

1 Silence

1 Swan Song

1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Cabal Ritual

1 Countersquall

1 Imp's Mischief

1 Negate

1 Tainted Pact

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Ad Nauseam

1 Gush

Sorceries

1 Imperial Seal

1 Reanimate

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Diabolic Intent

1 Feed the Swarm

1 Buried Alive

1 Doomsday

1 Grim Tutor

1 Mnemonic Betrayal

1 Praetor's Grasp

1 Sevinne's Reclamation

1 Windfall

1 Living Death

1 Peer into the Abyss

Lands

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 City of Brass

1 Command Tower

1 Exotic Orchard

1 Fetid Heath

1 Flooded Strand

1 Gemstone Caverns

1 Godless Shrine

1 Hallowed Fountain

1 Mana Confluence

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Morphic Pool

1 Mystic Gate

1 Polluted Delta

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Sea of Clouds

1 Spire of Industry

1 Sunken Ruins

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Urza's Saga

1 Vault of Champions

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Watery Grave

1 Windswept Heath

Approximate Total Cost:

[toctheyounger]

So, someone mentioned Ad Naus a few weeks back. I wondered if anyone had tried it out? I've done a little goldfishing and I can generally grab an average of maybe 20 odd cards if not more without bleeding myself out. I think its probably worth an add in the long run.

I wrote a rough draft list that includes it but I don't know for sure I even want to play the new list. I think the total MV is a little high for an Ad Nauseam deck yet

Varina Tryhard list

Show

Hide

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander

1 Varina, Lich Queen

Planeswalkers

1 Liliana, Untouched by Death

Creatures

1 Carrion Feeder

1 Changeling Outcast

1 Cryptbreaker

1 Foulmire Knight

1 Gravecrawler

1 Shambling Ghast

1 Stitcher's Supplier

1 Universal Automaton

1 Corpse Knight

1 Relentless Dead

1 Shepherd of Rot

1 Tidehollow Sculler

1 Undead Augur

1 Wayward Servant

1 Acererak the Archlich

1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge

1 Liliana's Standard Bearer

1 Midnight Reaper

1 Plague Belcher

1 Vengeful Dead

1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel

1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier

Artifacts

1 Chrome Mox

1 Jeweled Lotus

1 Lotus Petal

1 Mana Crypt

1 Mox Amber

1 Mox Opal

1 Mana Vault

1 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Sol Ring

1 Springleaf Drum

1 Arcane Signet

1 Fellwar Stone

1 Talisman of Dominance

1 Talisman of Progress

1 Wishclaw Talisman

1 Phyrexian Altar

1 Bolas's Citadel

Enchantments

1 Mystic Remora

1 Rhystic Study

1 Rooftop Storm

Instants

1 An Offer You Can't Refuse

1 Culling the Weak

1 Chain of Vapor

1 Dark Ritual

1 Silence

1 Swan Song

1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Cabal Ritual

1 Countersquall

1 Imp's Mischief

1 Negate

1 Tainted Pact

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Ad Nauseam

1 Gush

Sorceries

1 Imperial Seal

1 Reanimate

1 Demonic Tutor

1 Diabolic Intent

1 Feed the Swarm

1 Buried Alive

1 Doomsday

1 Grim Tutor

1 Mnemonic Betrayal

1 Praetor's Grasp

1 Sevinne's Reclamation

1 Windfall

1 Living Death

1 Peer into the Abyss

Lands

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Arid Mesa

1 Bloodstained Mire

1 City of Brass

1 Command Tower

1 Exotic Orchard

1 Fetid Heath

1 Flooded Strand

1 Gemstone Caverns

1 Godless Shrine

1 Hallowed Fountain

1 Mana Confluence

1 Marsh Flats

1 Misty Rainforest

1 Morphic Pool

1 Mystic Gate

1 Polluted Delta

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Sea of Clouds

1 Spire of Industry

1 Sunken Ruins

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

1 Urza's Saga

1 Vault of Champions

1 Verdant Catacombs

1 Watery Grave

1 Windswept Heath

Approximate Total Cost:

My main list is 2.42 without lands (thank you Moxfield). Besides I think we can spare the life between Varina, Gary and Wayward Servant. Having 35 life to throw into Ad Naus is pretty huge and I don't think you'd need too much of a departure to do well with it personally. Its also probably not that critical to have it or not, but it'll speed up your wins if you can make it work.

Also, Springleaf Drum. Its probably better here than Sol Ring. Why had I not thought of it?

[pzbw7z]

Also, Springleaf Drum. Its probably better here than Sol Ring. Why had I not thought of it?

I played Modern Affinity for years until WotC killed it. Springleaf Drum was a big part of that package. I'd been considering it for a slot in Prosper before and one of the cEDH database lists just recently added it so I got on board too. Sometime I need a little validation.

I should slot one into Varina - the real list. I mean, why not?

[pokken]

Also, Springleaf Drum. Its probably better here than Sol Ring. Why had I not thought of it?

It's going to be worse than Lotus Petal often enough that I don't think I'd bother personally.

Every mana rock is worse than Diregraf Ghoul in the low curve deck like, 90% of the time.

--

OK, so i did some thinking about this, and:

If you look at thse sequencing for drum, it goes:
1 - drum
2 - 2-drop, tap drum for a 1 drop
3- varina, tap a guy, swing for 1 trigger
4 - swing for 3 triggers, have 3-4 mana up

vs our 'ideal' sequence
1 - dude
2 - dude
3- dude
4 - varina, 3 triggers

So Drum actually does sometimes accelerate us meaningfully without needing to have an extra body to feed it.

I'll recant and say it could be very good! Definitely worth testing.

[Falkenbach]

Would it not hurt if you can not sequence exactly how you discribe it?

I am considering Gleaming Overseer andVizier of the Scorpion as they both enter with a second body. Sadly they enter at the 3 mana spot which is already crowded and they offer only evasion to your tokens.. I am already running Lazotep Reaver which also make me have more varina triggers.

[toctheyounger]

I mean I think just giving us colored mana gives us better options than either Sol Ring or Arcane Signet, the latter purely for us being much less likely to be taking a turn off for a rock. Even if it doesn't always get us there early game it means we can look tapped out and still hold up one for a Swords or a Swan or whatever.

@pokken you keep mentioning Diregraf Ghoul. Isn't Hunted Ghoul generally a strict upgrade? I mean as far as low grade zombies go anyway.

[pokken]

All things considered 2 is a lot more than 1 .

[pokken]

Would it not hurt if you can not sequence exactly how you discribe it?

I am considering Gleaming Overseer andVizier of the Scorpion as they both enter with a second body. Sadly they enter at the 3 mana spot which is already crowded and they offer only evasion to your tokens.. I am already running Lazotep Reaver which also make me have more varina triggers.

It definitely makes 3 mana zombies a lot worse in your curve if they're your first zombie but I think either a 1 or 2 mana zombie plus drum is usually better than an extra cheap zombie? Not sure.

I think it is worth a try in the sol ring spot for low curve builds.

[pzbw7z]

Mana rocks and rituals help power out multi-spell turns or high-MV spells early. Springleaf Drum is not the best rock but it makes use of a creature with Summoning sickness to make mana. As long as creatures are coming into play fairly regularly, it should be gas. It's also dirt cheap, which is something.

[Falkenbach]

Would it not hurt if you can not sequence exactly how you discribe it?

I am considering Gleaming Overseer andVizier of the Scorpion as they both enter with a second body. Sadly they enter at the 3 mana spot which is already crowded and they offer only evasion to your tokens.. I am already running Lazotep Reaver which also make me have more varina triggers.


It definitely makes 3 mana zombies a lot worse in your curve if they're your first zombie but I think either a 1 or 2 mana zombie plus drum is usually better than an extra cheap zombie? Not sure.

Sorry i did not really understand what you meant 😅
Atm i run 6 one drop zombies/ 9 two drop zombies / 10 three drop zombies
Yeah the more i think about it the more i see the drum doing work early game. Not sure if i can find a spot for it tho

[toctheyounger]

Would it not hurt if you can not sequence exactly how you discribe it?

I am considering Gleaming Overseer andVizier of the Scorpion as they both enter with a second body. Sadly they enter at the 3 mana spot which is already crowded and they offer only evasion to your tokens.. I am already running Lazotep Reaver which also make me have more varina triggers.

It definitely makes 3 mana zombies a lot worse in your curve if they're your first zombie but I think either a 1 or 2 mana zombie plus drum is usually better than an extra cheap zombie? Not sure.

I think it is worth a try in the sol ring spot for low curve builds.

Agreed about Sol. Colorless mana is almost useless to us unless it comes from an altar as part of a combo or similar. I think I'm gonna be on Drum now.

I think in terms of sequencing its going to depend on the pod and such, how viable attacks are etc. I see it as less of a turn off from proactive play than Ring or Signet though, which is really, really good.

[Rframpt]

hey Folks hope you are doing well. I was wondering that your opinion on how many mass reanimation spell you should run in a Varina deck. Mine isn't nearing as low to the ground as many of the once I have seen here, but I has made me wonder what you all think is the optimal

[pzbw7z]

hey Folks hope you are doing well. I was wondering that your opinion on how many mass reanimation spell you should run in a Varina deck. Mine isn't nearing as low to the ground as many of the once I have seen here, but I has made me wonder what you all think is the optimal

I have two mass reanimation spells. Many run three, but I have three tutors so I feel two is enough.

Living Death is number one, IMO. Zombie Apocalypse is number two. If you want a third, Patriarch's Bidding is number three. All my opinions, of course.

[pokken]

I have two mass reanimation spells. Many run three, but I have three tutors so I feel two is enough.

Living Death is number one, IMO. Zombie Apocalypse is number two. If you want a third, Patriarch's Bidding is number three. All my opinions, of course.

Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt probably comes before bidding for me, it's not quite as powerful but being a land helps, and you can usually get a combo or close to a combo going with X=3 or X=4. X=5 will usually stabilize or kill with Gary.

hey Folks hope you are doing well. I was wondering that your opinion on how many mass reanimation spell you should run in a Varina deck. Mine isn't nearing as low to the ground as many of the once I have seen here, but I has made me wonder what you all think is the optimal

paradoxically, mass reanimations are better in fatter decks, since the mana gain is higher when you cast them. The midrange reanimator varina deck is looking to use a mix of cheap (or varina tokens) and expensive ones, then to loot away the expensive ones/fatties and reanimate a win. This shell doesn't even need to play as many big zombies but it's ideal since the better mass reanimations are type-restricted. Still, Twilight's Call and Living Death can do the job there.

Personally I just run the cheapish mostly one-sided mass reanimates because I can't afford the more expensive ones and my zombies are lower impact. I would probably run Return to the Ranks over a bigger one at this point since so many of my zomboes are cheap, if I needed another. but with Mystical Tutor available should probably run that before another mass.

Mass reanimation spells can be looked at as something like Genesis Wave -- a bomb card draw spell with mana ramp attached. They're a way to go over the top of bigger rampier decks by cheating

[Falkenbach]

I did some goldfishing today Springleaf Drum was actually amazing on generating mana , I am certainly convinced on keeping it in my deck for now so i can do some playtesting in real.

Wake the Dead had put in some great work for me aswell, I must say you need to have some ETB or die Zombies to make this even better.

I got my list on moxfield finally if any wanna give a look at it
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/pHfP6LhO3UmB0RanXAIt-w

[pzbw7z]

Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt probably comes before bidding for me, it's not quite as powerful but being a land helps, and you can usually get a combo or close to a combo going with X=3 or X=4. X=5 will usually stabilize or kill with Gary.

I can get behind that. One sided is better, generally, but Living Death's board wipe makes it stand out.

[Rframpt]

My Varina deck is going through a bit of a reconstruction, as I have been liking what you all have been putting up and not focused on a singluar strategy. So it became a bit of everything. Small creatures, big fatties, a bit tempo esper, reanimator, and all that Varina allows.

Currently trying to focus down on the Reanimator, aristocats style, making use of Varina's loot ability to gain advantage and sculpt my hand to suit whatever situation I might face

[toctheyounger]

I did some goldfishing today Springleaf Drum was actually amazing on generating mana , I am certainly convinced on keeping it in my deck for now so i can do some playtesting in real.

Wake the Dead had put in some great work for me aswell, I must say you need to have some ETB or die Zombies to make this even better.

I got my list on moxfield finally if any wanna give a look at it
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/pHfP6LhO3UmB0RanXAIt-w

Really glad to hear this about the drum. I'm convinced it'll be pretty decent here. It being one of the effects that ignores summoning sickness makes it immediately better than Arcane Signet to me.

Just had a look over your Moxfield list. How has Lethal Scheme been for you? I've been eyeing it for a spot here.

[Falkenbach]

I did some goldfishing today Springleaf Drum was actually amazing on generating mana , I am certainly convinced on keeping it in my deck for now so i can do some playtesting in real.

Wake the Dead had put in some great work for me aswell, I must say you need to have some ETB or die Zombies to make this even better.

I got my list on moxfield finally if any wanna give a look at it
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/pHfP6LhO3UmB0RanXAIt-w

Really glad to hear this about the drum. I'm convinced it'll be pretty decent here. It being one of the effects that ignores summoning sickness makes it immediately better than Arcane Signet to me.

Just had a look over your Moxfield list. How has Lethal Scheme been for you? I've been eyeing it for a spot here.

So far I have only used it twice, where one of the times I was lending my deck out to a friend. I would say its great spell but not amazing. The one time I used it I only had 1 creature to reduce the cost so it was a tiny little bit better heroes downfall. The friend I lend my deck cast it for free so for him it was great. Conclusion needs more testing