Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[toctheyounger]

Yeah this is for sure playable. Not sure what it swaps out for yet myself, but it's definitely worth a try. Universal Automaton stays for me, just on account of being a combo piece with Liliana, Untouched by Death.

Also, I totally did not click Mists of Lórien was a sorcery. Makes it a ton less desirable. Ah well. I think it'll be good in a control shell, but maybe not here.

[Reya]

What do you plan to swap out for this? Universal Automaton?

I run Dreadmalkin so it's an easy swap for my list

[pzbw7z]

Yeah this is for sure playable. Not sure what it swaps out for yet myself, but it's definitely worth a try. Universal Automaton stays for me, just on account of being a combo piece with Liliana, Untouched by Death.

U.A. also plays nicely with Haakon. Being loopable with both altars is pretty spicy.

[ChocoDude]

True. I forgot about that. I haven't played my Varina stack in a while.

[ChocoDude]

Too bad this isn't a zombie. http://www.mythicspoiler.com/mkm/cards/ ... hound.html

[Reya]

I'm sure some people here will try this card. Could be good if your build is more on the agressive combat oriented version, rather than the low curve combo version.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, I think this kind of fits better than most of the lords you could run, as well as Coat of Arms. You could even play around it for your off turns with Rhystic and Mystic if you so chose.

[toctheyounger]

What do you guys think of Case Of the Uneaten Feast? Seems like at least on par with Liliana, Untouched by Death to me. Less to pay up front, we can almost certainly solve it right away, the only real issue the solve trigger resolving at beginning of end step. At that point you can activate the enchantment at any time (though I can only assume it doesn't alter the timing with which you can play your creatures).

I'd been looking at it for another deck, but I think it's a possibility here. If nothing else it makes a Haakon, Stromgald Scourge suite more useful.

[pokken]

What do you guys think of Case Of the Uneaten Feast? Seems like at least on par with Liliana, Untouched by Death to me. Less to pay up front, we can almost certainly solve it right away, the only real issue the solve trigger resolving at beginning of end step. At that point you can activate the enchantment at any time (though I can only assume it doesn't alter the timing with which you can play your creatures).

So I'm not sure but my reading of Case is that the cards would lose it the moment they leave the graveyard so you couldn't loop with it. Kinda like "Creatures you control gain haste until end of turn" from an instant, any creature that leaves and comes back would lose haste.

But I might be reading it wrong.

[Rframpt]

What do you guys think of Case Of the Uneaten Feast? Seems like at least on par with Liliana, Untouched by Death to me. Less to pay up front, we can almost certainly solve it right away, the only real issue the solve trigger resolving at beginning of end step. At that point you can activate the enchantment at any time (though I can only assume it doesn't alter the timing with which you can play your creatures).

So I'm not sure but my reading of Case is that the cards would lose it the moment they leave the graveyard so you couldn't loop with it. Kinda like "Creatures you control gain haste until end of turn" from an instant, any creature that leaves and comes back would lose haste.

But I might be reading it wrong.

I believe you are right on that one Pokken. Both them going to the battlefield and the graveyard would make them "new" instances of themselves. And like you mentioned we would not be able to loop the creatures. Liliana, Untouched by Death says you are may cast Zombies spells for the graveyard this turn. Where this Case Of the Uneaten Feast says the creatures gain the "you may cast this creature from the Graveyard this turn" feels like it is more akin to cards like Past in Flames.

[toctheyounger]

Welcome back pokken! Hope your hiatus treated you well.

I believe you're right. The way the card is worded is specific to the creatures in your graveyard as it resolves, so presumably new creatures, or new instances of the same creatures, would not have the same ability. It's a shame, but I guess I can see why they framed it that way. We might be surprised, but I doubt. I guess we know more when comprehensive rulings are released.

[ElTuberias]

What is your opinion on Soul Enervation. I think it might be worth a try at least. Although it is a little too high on the mana cost.

[pzbw7z]

What is your opinion on Soul Enervation. I think it might be worth a try at least. Although it is a little too high on the mana cost.

This is probably better for Mono-B or Dimir. We have, it seems to me, sufficient low-cost pingers.

[toctheyounger]

What is your opinion on Soul Enervation. I think it might be worth a try at least. Although it is a little too high on the mana cost.

This is probably better for Mono-B or Dimir. We have, it seems to me, sufficient low-cost pingers.

Agreed with pzbw7z here, sadly. I think this is most likely to be used once we're at the point of setting up reanimation loops, or doing Haakon things or Gravecrawler things. The chances are, you already have everything you need to end the game at that point, or can find it in the process. Card isn't terrible by any stretch, it just hurts for not being a creature and for costing what it costs.

I could see it being a good addition to a Tormod, the Desecrator list somewhere though.

[Rframpt]

Unfortunately, it is also 4 mana. As we also have access to white we could have potentially recurred it with many of the white bring a permanent back. I do agree that it is a nice addiction to Tormod, the Desecrator maybe one where Tormod is partner with some other partner

[ElTuberias]

I may try it anyway my pod uses to much bojuka bog, and it could be some kind of answer.
Also thinking of adding Stifle against bojuka bog.

Any other suggestion against graveyard hate.

[Rframpt]

I may try it anyway my pod uses to much bojuka bog, and it could be some kind of answer.
Also thinking of adding Stifle against bojuka bog.

Any other suggestion against graveyard hate.

For me it is about learning how to read your opponents. Knowing the colors they prefer to play and how likely they are at including graveyard hate in their decks. Next comes analysing your own play patterns. When you got blown out by graveyard hate was it due to you being too greedy with how much you threw in the yard? Was because there was no better target? Or has it been your primary wincon been doing a mass reanimation spell getting all the Zombies back, and that was your opponents scared?
The best tool I can offer is to learn how best to take the risks when you feel you can get the win. Learn how to sandbag those Zombies that are critical for you to get back should you get some graveyard hate thrown your way

[pokken]

What is your opinion on Soul Enervation. I think it might be worth a try at least. Although it is a little too high on the mana cost.

The main thing it suffers from is not being a zombie our reanimation is mostly zombies, so when you mass reanimate you get all the zombies that drain, which makes the Living Death effects much more potent. So i would not run it until you are running all the drain zombies (and I would consider Zulaport Cutthroat first, tbh, since again it's a creature and you can get it with Agadeem's Awakening // Agadeem, the Undercrypt / Living Death).

If you're worried about Bojuka Bog play more Land Tax // Kindred Discovery // Teferi's Ageless Insight and rely less on the yard. Deck really does not have to be superbly yard dependent and it's nice ot have other angles of attack. You can also use your mana to make zombies out of the cards in response so if you're worried about getting bogged it might be a good idea to keep mana up.

The Zombie Infestation lines also do not require or care about the graveyard particularly, and Wake the Dead // Rally the Ancestors are other cards that can discourage people from trying to sorcery speed get your bin. I've also considered playing Kozilek, Butcher of Truth since we have a few instant speed ways to get things into the bin (discard outlets, Entomb)


I should add: having the "one or more" clause really makes it %$#% against Bojuka Bog effects.

[ElTuberias]

I should add: having the "one or more" clause really makes it %$#% against Bojuka Bog effects.

I didn't notice the clause you are right.

Thanks for the advice.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, these two responses are pretty much on the money.

A lot of getting blown out by a bog is overcommitting to your yard. We can't help it to some degree, our commander loots. But Bog and Deathrite Shaman and Rest in Peace and all that stuff is usually sandbagged until your opponents think it's 'worth it', or see that one piece they want to get rid of for good. No one really wants to play out Bog for your land, as a land drop it's pure garbage. So ultimately it's a matter of reading the table and making sure you're not leaving yourself too vulnerable before you're ready to shoot your shot. It's a learned skill, but the more you pay attention to the wider table atmosphere the more you'll see it coming.

Varina's second ability is often overlooked, too. The exile for zombies effect is rough to use, but it's better than being blown out and having nothing at all to show for it. It's precisely for the situation where your stacked yard is getting bogged. Cut your losses, get board presence and make sure you're not losing everything.

And yeah, any variation on the Skullclamp/Zombie Infestation lines basically lets you sculpt your hand to win the next chance you get, any way you like. While it's not totally graveyard agnostic, it isn't required to reach the end point of your ideal hand.

[Rframpt]

Speaking of getting blown out that happen to me last night, when playing Varina. As I got too greedy with how much I added to my yard after a boardwipe and milling my Library with Altar of dementia. Sadly I didn't have the follow-up play of a mass reanimation spell, on my turn and the following opponents, exiled my graveyard which was close to half my library. Something to note is that all the decks I played against Alesha, Who Smiles at Death , Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, and Toxrill, the Corrosive, and I thought milling my opponents might be worse, but in hindsight the Control Toxrill should have been my target for milling.

Still, very enjoyable games, even if Varina didn't do nearly as well this time around

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, Toxrill, the Corrosive seems pretty toxic for this deck. I can only imagine if the slug hangs on for anything more than a turn cycle or two we are just s'd in the b.

Thanks for reminding me of needing Altar of Dementia in here. Pretty sure I've got a copy floating around, I think it'll put in work. I think the biggest holdback in the deck for me currently is just not seeing the cards I need to see quickly enough. I see one part of a combo line, but not the other two, I have reanimation but not an aristocrat, yada yada. I imagine it gets a ton easier with Intuition, but that card is just out of my budget. I'm hoping Beseech the Mirror helps, but it's early days testing that one.

[Rframpt]

Toxrill, the Corrosive is a pretty interesting matchup for my Varina deck. I got more control lines with hero of realm Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant. Noxious Ghoul to get rid of annoying 1/1, especially brutal when doing some mass reanimation. Added High Market to my list to be able to sac nevinyrral when he etb's and hopefully have one generic mana to get his death trigger first and the etb Zombies afterwards.
Besides everyone is on high alert when Toxrill hits the field as we are more of a creature heavy meta. So luckily I am not the only one who needs to deal with the growing infestation of slugs

[pzbw7z]

Does anyone like Get Lost? I'm not sure what I'd replace if I tried it. I think my copy will go to a Pioneer deck. It seems good there; here? Maybe not.

[Rframpt]

I do like Get Lost, and I migh end up cutting Void Rend for it. Though Void rend is nice as it gets through ward cards and wizards seem to love printing legends these days with ward stapled on them.