These questions are related to whether an effect of a spell/ability does or doesn't apply to objects created after (or given characteristics after) that spell/ability resolves.
If I cast Falter and it resolves, then a player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
If I activate Immobilizer Eldrazi and it resolves, then a player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
If I cast Goblin War Cry targeting an opponent and it resolves, then that player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
If I cast Display of Dominance and it resolves, then I play a land, can an opponent cast Dream's Grip this turn targeting that land?
If I control Veilstone Amulet and cast Raging Goblin, can that Goblin be targeted by an opponent this turn?
If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then activate Glaring Spotlight's sacrifice ability, then attack with a nontoken creature, (A) does the token generated by Basri's trigger have hexproof and (B) can that token be blocked?
If my Keeper of Keys' upkeep trigger resolves while I am the monarch, then I activate Basri Ket's -2, then attack with a nontoken creature, can the token generated by Basri's trigger be blocked?
If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then overload Teleportal, then attack with a nontoken creature, (A) does the token generated by Basri's trigger have +1/+0 and (B) can that token be blocked?
If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then cast Biomass Mutation, then attack with a nontoken creature, does the token generated by Basri's trigger have base p/t X/X?
If I activate Wakestone Gargoyle's ability and it resolves, then in that same turn a player attaches Deep Freeze to my Grizzly Bears, can the Bears attack this turn?
If I cast the Insult of Insult // Injury and it resolves, then another player activates Heartless Hidetsugu's ability, and in response I gain control of Hidetsugu by activating the ability granted by Chamber of Manipulation, is the damage of the Hidetsugu ability doubled?
Sorry if this is too many questions for one thread. Please direct me to the section of the comprehensive rules that describes when this scope does and does not include objects that are created after (or gain characteristics after) the spell/ability resolves.
Difficult scope-of-effect questions
Accepted Answer
In general, if a continuous effect of a resolving spell or ability---
In that case, no. This is because the effects of these spells and abilities modify the rules of the game, rather than change the characteristics or control of any objects. (Notably, effects that say certain creatures "can't block" don't add any abilities to those creatures.) Thus, their effects apply to the stated creatures even after their effects begin (C.R. 611.2c).
EDIT (Dec. 17): Correctness edit.
Go to full post- changes the characteristics or control of objects, the effect applies only to the objects that meet that effect's criteria when the spell or ability resolves, and doesn't apply to other objects even if they later meet the effect's criteria (C.R. 611.2c).
- does not change the characteristics or control of objects, the effect can apply to the appropriate objects even if they didn't exist (or didn't meet the effect's criteria) at the time the effect began (C.R. 611.2c).
- certain creatures "can't attack",
- certain creatures "can't be blocked", or
- certain permanents "can't be the target of" certain spells or abilities,
I assume you cast Falter or Goblin War Cry or activated Immobilizer Eldrazi's activated ability before blockers are declared.Settemio wrote: ↑3 years agoIf I cast Falter and it resolves, then a player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
If I activate Immobilizer Eldrazi and it resolves, then a player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
If I cast Goblin War Cry targeting an opponent and it resolves, then that player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
In that case, no. This is because the effects of these spells and abilities modify the rules of the game, rather than change the characteristics or control of any objects. (Notably, effects that say certain creatures "can't block" don't add any abilities to those creatures.) Thus, their effects apply to the stated creatures even after their effects begin (C.R. 611.2c).
Assuming you chose Display of Dominance's second mode: No, for the same reason as before -- that mode doesn't change the characteristics or control of any objects. Notably, that mode's effect is not the same as granting shroud or hexproof to any permanent.If I cast Display of Dominance and it resolves, then I play a land, can an opponent cast Dream's Grip this turn targeting that land?
No, for the same reason as before.If I control Veilstone Amulet and cast Raging Goblin, can that Goblin be targeted by an opponent this turn?
The token created with Basri Ket won't gain hexproof, but they won't be able to be blocked this turn. Under C.R. 611.2c, the set of creatures that gain hexproof, the "(c)reatures you control[led]" when Glaring Spotlight's last ability resolved, is separate from the set of creatures that "can't be blocked" due to that ability, which in general is the "(c)reatures you control" at the time blockers are declared.If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then activate Glaring Spotlight's sacrifice ability, then attack with a nontoken creature, (A) does the token generated by Basri's trigger have hexproof and (B) can that token be blocked?
No, for the same reason as for Glaring Spotlight's last ability.If my Keeper of Keys' upkeep trigger resolves while I am the monarch, then I activate Basri Ket's -2, then attack with a nontoken creature, can the token generated by Basri's trigger be blocked?
No and no, for the same reason as for Glaring Spotlight's last ability. Even here, the first part of the effect changes the characteristics of certain objects (so it won't apply to the token), and the second part modifies the rules of the game as applied to certain objects (so it can apply to that token).If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then overload Teleportal, then attack with a nontoken creature, (A) does the token generated by Basri's trigger have +1/+0 and (B) can that token be blocked?
No. The effect of Biomass Mutation changes the characteristics of certain objects (so it won't apply to the token here since it didn't exist at the time that spell resolved).If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then cast Biomass Mutation, then attack with a nontoken creature, does the token generated by Basri's trigger have base p/t X/X?
Yes. Wakestone Gargoyle's activated ability imposes an effect that modifies the rules as applied to "(c)reatures you control". In fact, the answer will be yes even if Grizzly Bears enters the battlefield under your control after the Wakestone Gargoyle ability resolves.
If I activate Wakestone Gargoyle's ability and it resolves, then in that same turn a player attaches Deep Freeze to my Grizzly Bears, can the Bears attack this turn?
Yes. Even here, Insult doesn't change the characteristics or control of any objects, so it applies to any "source you control" even if you didn't control it when Insult resolved.If I cast the Insult of Insult // Injury and it resolves, then another player activates Heartless Hidetsugu's ability, and in response I gain control of Hidetsugu by activating the ability granted by Chamber of Manipulation, is the damage of the Hidetsugu ability doubled?
EDIT (Dec. 17): Correctness edit.
In general, if a continuous effect of a resolving spell or ability---
In that case, no. This is because the effects of these spells and abilities modify the rules of the game, rather than change the characteristics or control of any objects. (Notably, effects that say certain creatures "can't block" don't add any abilities to those creatures.) Thus, their effects apply to the stated creatures even after their effects begin (C.R. 611.2c).
EDIT (Dec. 17): Correctness edit.
- changes the characteristics or control of objects, the effect applies only to the objects that meet that effect's criteria when the spell or ability resolves, and doesn't apply to other objects even if they later meet the effect's criteria (C.R. 611.2c).
- does not change the characteristics or control of objects, the effect can apply to the appropriate objects even if they didn't exist (or didn't meet the effect's criteria) at the time the effect began (C.R. 611.2c).
- certain creatures "can't attack",
- certain creatures "can't be blocked", or
- certain permanents "can't be the target of" certain spells or abilities,
I assume you cast Falter or Goblin War Cry or activated Immobilizer Eldrazi's activated ability before blockers are declared.Settemio wrote: ↑3 years agoIf I cast Falter and it resolves, then a player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
If I activate Immobilizer Eldrazi and it resolves, then a player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
If I cast Goblin War Cry targeting an opponent and it resolves, then that player flashes in Riptide Turtle, can the Turtle block this turn?
In that case, no. This is because the effects of these spells and abilities modify the rules of the game, rather than change the characteristics or control of any objects. (Notably, effects that say certain creatures "can't block" don't add any abilities to those creatures.) Thus, their effects apply to the stated creatures even after their effects begin (C.R. 611.2c).
Assuming you chose Display of Dominance's second mode: No, for the same reason as before -- that mode doesn't change the characteristics or control of any objects. Notably, that mode's effect is not the same as granting shroud or hexproof to any permanent.If I cast Display of Dominance and it resolves, then I play a land, can an opponent cast Dream's Grip this turn targeting that land?
No, for the same reason as before.If I control Veilstone Amulet and cast Raging Goblin, can that Goblin be targeted by an opponent this turn?
The token created with Basri Ket won't gain hexproof, but they won't be able to be blocked this turn. Under C.R. 611.2c, the set of creatures that gain hexproof, the "(c)reatures you control[led]" when Glaring Spotlight's last ability resolved, is separate from the set of creatures that "can't be blocked" due to that ability, which in general is the "(c)reatures you control" at the time blockers are declared.If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then activate Glaring Spotlight's sacrifice ability, then attack with a nontoken creature, (A) does the token generated by Basri's trigger have hexproof and (B) can that token be blocked?
No, for the same reason as for Glaring Spotlight's last ability.If my Keeper of Keys' upkeep trigger resolves while I am the monarch, then I activate Basri Ket's -2, then attack with a nontoken creature, can the token generated by Basri's trigger be blocked?
No and no, for the same reason as for Glaring Spotlight's last ability. Even here, the first part of the effect changes the characteristics of certain objects (so it won't apply to the token), and the second part modifies the rules of the game as applied to certain objects (so it can apply to that token).If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then overload Teleportal, then attack with a nontoken creature, (A) does the token generated by Basri's trigger have +1/+0 and (B) can that token be blocked?
No. The effect of Biomass Mutation changes the characteristics of certain objects (so it won't apply to the token here since it didn't exist at the time that spell resolved).If I activate Basri Ket's -2, then cast Biomass Mutation, then attack with a nontoken creature, does the token generated by Basri's trigger have base p/t X/X?
Yes. Wakestone Gargoyle's activated ability imposes an effect that modifies the rules as applied to "(c)reatures you control". In fact, the answer will be yes even if Grizzly Bears enters the battlefield under your control after the Wakestone Gargoyle ability resolves.
If I activate Wakestone Gargoyle's ability and it resolves, then in that same turn a player attaches Deep Freeze to my Grizzly Bears, can the Bears attack this turn?
Yes. Even here, Insult doesn't change the characteristics or control of any objects, so it applies to any "source you control" even if you didn't control it when Insult resolved.If I cast the Insult of Insult // Injury and it resolves, then another player activates Heartless Hidetsugu's ability, and in response I gain control of Hidetsugu by activating the ability granted by Chamber of Manipulation, is the damage of the Hidetsugu ability doubled?
EDIT (Dec. 17): Correctness edit.
Last edited by peteroupc 3 years ago, edited 6 times in total.
