Feather, the Redeemed - Weaponised Jankmas Incarnate

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 6 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
6 months ago
Archaeomancer's Map could be a source of winmore ramp, hitting some Burgeoning triggers off a cantrip-inflated hand. Three mana, only really works when already doing fine.
I don't know that 'only works when you're doing fine' is accurate, it can catch you back up from missing 2 land drops, and then keep you caught up as long as you can get a draw engine going.

The most important thing about it is that it guarantees you Feather + Cantrip on turn 4 which is really hard to argue with. think of it like Cultivate with a 5 cmc commander and it's not far off. Someone will definitely play their 4th land and get you a freebie, then you play the other land and good to go.

IMHO, white cultivate would be a windmill slam in feather who is virtually 5 mana, and this has a much higher ceiling than cultivate.

I'd definitely try it.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 6 months ago

That's a fair point, thanks for calling me out on this.

If I'm being honest, I'm still not fully sold - early ramp should cost 2 tops, so that it can help accelerate out a protected turn three Feather. That way, turn four has more mana for cantrips and other activities available. Plus I can't help but think back to my early Feather games where I'd draw into a Diamond mid game and groan as spending two mana for future ramp was not where I wanted to be. How will this fare? On the other hand, isn't this kind of like playing a Burgeoning and ripping two uneventful cantrips?

At least I should playtest it and see how it does rather than just theorycrafting :P
 
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Post by pokken » 6 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
6 months ago
That's a fair point, thanks for calling me out on this.

If I'm being honest, I'm still not fully sold - early ramp should cost 2 tops, so that it can help accelerate out a protected turn three Feather. That way, turn four has more mana for cantrips and other activities available. Plus I can't help but think back to my early Feather games where I'd draw into a Diamond mid game and groan as spending two mana for future ramp was not where I wanted to be. How will this fare? On the other hand, isn't this kind of like playing a Burgeoning and ripping two uneventful cantrips?

At least I should playtest it and see how it does rather than just theorycrafting :P
I'm not 100% sure either, but I think it's interesting how this card is probably at its best in Feather early on, and by the time you're in the late game you don't care about it that much because you're so efficient.

In Ephara, it's really the late game power that attracts me - sure, being able to play Ephara on 4 and multiple spells on 5 with probably 6 or more mana is solid, but really using it to take me to Emeria, the Sky Ruin territory or ramp me up to endgame mana (12-15) is more what I'm after.

Looking forward to hearing what you think. It is rough that it's basically a 3 mana brick later on, but I think it's something you would much rather see than Boros Signet in your opening grip most of the time, unless you also have one of the 4 busted rocks (mox mox ring crypt).

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 6 months ago

pokken wrote:
6 months ago
I think it's something you would much rather see than Boros Signet in your opening grip most of the time
Interesting - I would far prefer the Signet as then I can chase Feather out turn three and carry on with other things turn four onward. My musings were about it potentially having some relevance later. Confusing card.
 
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Post by pokken » 6 months ago

Man I am so paranoid about running feather out without protection I'll basically never do it unless forced by missing my land drop after a signet. But it's definitely meta dependent.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 6 months ago

Do you always keep up two mana for protection purposes? As a turn two Signet implies four mana turn three, so Feather plus one deterrent mana up. While not signalling a slow-blink, that's still a bunch of possible interaction.
 
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Post by pokken » 6 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
6 months ago
Do you always keep up two mana for protection purposes? As a turn two Signet implies four mana turn three, so Feather plus one deterrent mana up. While not signalling a slow-blink, that's still a bunch of possible interaction.
That's a good point, I did tend to go for it if I had Gods Willing since as long as I can stop theft effects it's recoverable. I was thinking maybe half the protection spells are two mana?

But yeah signet is nice on that front for sure.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 6 months ago

So I got a few games in, and the Map played like expected. In the early game, it would slow down proceedings as I'd play the Cultivate prior to Feather. And then later on once the cantrips got going, I'd perpetually burgeon in lands off ramped-up opposition. There's just one thing I didn't account for - just how good that would feel. This further amplifies my indecision. Ultimately, I think I'm still going to pass. It boils down to pacing. This is a great card for a slower, more controlling deck, but my build doesn't fit that bill. Gotta try to go fast'ish!

Something that did happen in testing was me drawing Sarkhan's Triumph a couple of times and reacting with happiness each time. That's a good sign for an include.
 
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Post by Natesroom » 5 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
2 years ago
Boros Spells!

Head Honcho


One Drop Cantrip Club


1 Heal
Approximate Total Cost:




Card Options


So this is not the most recent list, the one on page two is your most recent?

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 5 months ago

@Natesroom, the list you quoted is my most recent one, yes. I always keep it clearly displayed in the OP for transparency. The list from page two is another poster sharing his take on Feather, and then we talked shop about it for a bit.
 
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Post by Natesroom » 5 months ago

Gotcha, i thought the one on the FP was up to date so i 'm glad to confirm.

I'm building Feather and i'm gonna start with yours mostly and go from there.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 months ago

MH2 Changes


MH2 may not be quite as benevolent as MH1, but I don't mind. There are still a few nice cards to stick into the deck, and the set feels more organically nostalgic than its predecessor. My computer is thankful I wasn't drinking anything as I came across Dermotaxi.

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Blacksmith's Skill is the new best one-drop protection spell in terms of pure protection prowess. Hexproof stops all spot removal dead in its tracks, indestructible is indestructible, and it can also target any permanent. Funny how in STX I was musing about how to handle a one-drop hexproof, and here it is all of one set later. Dragon's Rage Channeler is another dig synergy piece, costing all of one mana to set down and do its thing. The stat line is not as nice as Burning Prophet, but that's not what I run that card for :P The spell went in over Ajani's Presence, the least good of the indestructible options. The cut for Channeler was me just looking back on the putative cut notes in the KHM update. Most of the weaker cards still do something the deck wants - gum the board, make mana in some fashion. Four finisher win cons feels like a good density. Psychotic Fury is the least good of the cantrips, costing two and being immune to Zada radiating or even Goldspan targeting. Feather voltron kills are a rarity in multiplayer, and Fury lost a lot of its appeal with Sunforger gone.

In terms of other observations:
  • I'm starting to think Dorf is the best mana engine in the deck. Goldspan may be bombier, but Dorf responds to Recruiting and doesn't hog targeting. As it turns out, being able to build up a board of chumps off Akroan Crusader to have some blockers and/or future Zada numbers is still pretty nice to do. Also, the interaction with Zada may seem winmore at first, but magecraft barfing a mountain of Treasure off a cast can often be the difference between having to load up as the table passes around and just being able to explode the very instant Zada touches down.
  • I'm realising why old me took a while to add Fishbowl in. In a perfect world, it needs a "response stack" 11-12 deep to gain enough life to blow up the board. If delivered in chunks, as it's likely to be, the requisite number is even higher. Yeah yeah, this counts anything that gets cast, but suddenly Aria of Flame and its "17 whenever" doesn't seem inferior anymore. True, Fishbowl is very fun with its response lines, but it's nice to contextualise the other win conditions and realise they're not actually bad.
  • I also entertained the thought of Alpine Meadow in here, as corresponding cycle members have done great in other decks and spread to all other 2c builds I own. However, Feather's a bit different - once the commander lands, there's no such thing as an opportunity to have a land come in tapped anymore. Any amount of mana can be spent on instants, with a smidgen set aside for emergency protection. Any tap land is a liability. As such, the Meadow would need to make its way in reliably prior to Feather landing, and do so without disrupting early game sequencing. I pulled up some number of hands, and was seeing a ~60-65% success rate of opening hands being able to accomplish that. That was too low for me to feel comfortable with adding it.
  • The above is related to the realisation that the deck is now nominally almost 50% red, while the basics are skewed 9/4 towards Plains. However, the pip distribution doesn't fully capture how the deck operates. A lot of the time, the list spends its time casting W-costed spells over and over again, the instant market is largely white dominated while the payoff permanents are starting to go more red. So those spells will eat more than their pip distribution share of mana, and are very fussy about requiring white in particular. In practice, I haven't found myself to be red-starved in game, so I guess the current skew still works out fine in practice.
Other interesting MH2 stuff:
  • Harmonic Prodigy has a reasonable toolbox of options to amplify - Burning Prophet/Dragon's Rage Channeler. Duergar Hedge-Mage, Guttersnipe, Storm-Kiln Artist, Young Pyromancer. The deck's no stranger to narrow pieces, running Phyrexian Altar despite only having four swarmers to go along with it. Thing is, the payoff for linking up Altar and board gum is a hand unlock and free spamming of all the 1mv instants in there. The returns here are nowhere near as bombastic.
  • The Imperial Recruiter reprint is great news. Should hopefully make the card more accessible. I highly recommend it if you can swing it, especially now in Dorf days.
  • Tap land bad. Rustvale Bridge tap land. So bad. Unfortunate, as Unwinding Clock likes artifact lands.
  • Solitude feels super winmore in here. Casting this for five is not where the deck wants to be, or Cavalier of Dawn would be in here already. Casting this for free involves pitching another white card, to effectively get a Swords to Plowshares, so to save one mana. The dream comes online if there's a flicker to pair this with, but all these bits being around implies a rather stacked hand.
 
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Post by Sheriff » 4 months ago

I basically haven't played--or been keeping up with spoilers/new cards--since the pandemic started, so I'm trying to see what new cards I should add to my deck(s).. but one quick question I have right now is, why no Esper Sentinel? It's only 1 Mana and will likely draw you a few cards; do you feel it doesn't compare to what we have in cantrips (combined w/ Prophets and such)?

Also, I'm tempted to swap Akroan Crusader (actually, Vanguard of Brimaz probably) with Clarion Spirit, since most times I have Akroan out I'm stuck having to decide which Heroic to focus on, and it ends up being inefficient or disappointing in those cases.. whereas Clarion would always function, and let me focus on other cantrip targets instead.

Maybe I should add Titan's Strength back in? (Still not 100% sold on Scry 1 being enough of a "Cantrip", but with all these new sources of Mana in the form of Treasures.. I might have to rethink it.)

I noticed one difference between our Mana-Bases, in that I have a Scavenger Grounds in place of 1 Plains.. is that a meta choice? I like to always make sure I got a Bojuka Bog or similar in my decks, to stop Graveyard decks from poppin' off.

With the inclusion of Dorf (which I'm guessing you're calling "Dorf" because it's a Dwarf Mana-Dork?) and Goldspan Dragon, Unwinding Clock is no longer as important a cornerstone of the deck's engine, and as such no longer does a reason remain to keep Gilded Lotus in the deck (good thing I have a Mox Diamond lying around.. :P)

PS. Sword of Hearth and Home honorable mention? It flickers and ramps which Feather likes, but it's probably too slow for our kind of list (probably better in those slower flicker-based lists though.)
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 months ago

Hey man, been a while, nice to see you again :) You got the TL;DR of the past year of the deck's life - Storm-Kiln Artist and Goldspan Dragon got printed, and the build is the strongest it's ever been. The only time I've spent a Recruiter on something that wasn't Dorf was when I already had one of the two new guys available already.

Esper Sentinel is incredibly overrated. It's good if it comes out early and people are unwilling to sacrifice their T2-3'ish setup tempo, but by ~T5 this should net you no cards against tables with any amount of responsibility. Feather in particular draws well enough to not need this.

Yeah, the heroic swarmers are some of the worse cards in the deck at this point, but they still gum and board presence tends to help with not dying. But they're near the chopping block for when more good stuff comes out.

I've personally found Titan's Strength perfectly fine, and have Samut's Sprint earmarked as a putative filler card if at any point I make any transformative changes to the deck. Scrying is seriously a perfectly good form of dig while looking for stuff, most of the time I bottom stuff anyway as I'm looking for very particular pieces.

I dislike colourless mana in the deck, and the only colourless sources I run yield infinite hand size or are Sol Rings. I don't pack much grave hate as a personal choice - graveyard decks tend to be very all-eggs-one-basket from my experience, and a well placed graveyard exile really hurts them. Which makes the game unfun for them. So I'll just do my own thing instead :P

Nice to see you on the Mox plan too now ;) given the draw happiness, Feather quickly recoups the early game investment, and if drawn late they're outright effortless to sequence.

Sword of the Animist is already too slow, so Sword of Hearth and Home all the more so. Yeah, the blink is not too shabby, but I guess this is more for the ETB builds.
 
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Post by BeneTleilax » 4 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
4 months ago
Sword of Hearth and Home all the more so. Yeah, the blink is not too shabby, but I guess this is more for the ETB builds.
As an ETB build, I have little to no interest in Hearth and Home. Protection from white turning off our blinks is just too much of a risk. I am jamming Solitude though, that card is amazing here.
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Post by Eburon » 4 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
4 months ago
Esper Sentinel is incredibly overrated. It's good if it comes out early and people are unwilling to sacrifice their T2-3'ish setup tempo, but by ~T5 this should net you no cards against tables with any amount of responsibility. Feather in particular draws well enough to not need this.
The same could be said about Mystic Remora which still finds it's way in plenty of decks. I think Esper Sentinel is worth it. Also, since we do have incidental pump spells, it could very well draw cards late game too. Titan's Strength becomes a Scry + cantrip in that case. At the very least it is worth testing

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 4 months ago

This is no Mystic Remora. Remora's tax is so brutal that even my Tithe-paying group doesn't cough up for it, and it doesn't stop at one trigger. I might be wrong about Sentinel - I initially dismissed Anointed Procession in Daxos, which was a deeply questionable take :P Feel free to try it out and come back with info on how it rolled. However, this sort of thing seems very meta-dependent. Some people just never pay for that sort of thing, even if this is the easiest tax to cover of the whole cohort.
 
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Post by Sheriff » 4 months ago

In my experience people just wait out the Remora until you can't pay the Upkeep anymore AND THEN they start setting up.. So I figure this at least gets you some card draw. 'xD But y'all are probably right about it not being needed in Feather.
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Post by gunar » 4 months ago

Gonna have to agree with Rumpy here. I ordered an Esper Sentinal and think its gonna be great in a bunch of decks...just not feather. We have so many 1-2 mana repeatable draw spells that I won't risk putting draw on the easiest creature in the world to kill. Tying draw to a creature that annoys everyone and dies to everything from spikefield hazard to bane of progress seems bad.

Man now I really want to kill one with a Hornet Sting. New achievement to unlock.

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Post by Eburon » 4 months ago

Here is how I look at Esper Sentinel: It taxes ramp and/or can draw some cards (if tax is not paid). So, it either generates card advantage or it slows other people down. Even if a piece of removal is thrown at it without us getting a card, it still had value because that piece of removal is not out of their hands and not available to them later when we want to win. Sure, late game it doesn't do much, but neither does a mana rock and we still play those.

I am definitely going to test it as soon as I pick one up.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 months ago

AFR breaks the streak of sets with obvious Feather includes. Good, as some of the recent ones have been quite silly. A few cards can still be talked about:
  • Dawnbringer Cleric offers a toolbox of semi-useful ETB abilities. I'll stick with Duergar Hedge-Mage, but maybe this is of some relevance to ETB builds.
  • Fighter Class works very well with Sunforger spam, so probably worth running alongside it if that's something you're interested in.
  • Guardian of Faith is technically a pretty nice flavour of board-wide protection on a body, but the circumstances in which you'll run him out mean he's quite likely to not live to tell the tale. So the (flickerable) body aspect becomes less relevant. Still one of the better white cards in the set in general - mass phasing is potent.
  • Kick in the Door would be an interesting consideration if it were an instant. Stacking seven ventures would clear the long dungeon, yielding an effective five cards drawn (one of those free-cast, two of those "impulse drawn") along with scry 1+2+3 and some other minor perks. However, as a sorcery, it will just take too long to get this going.
  • Loyal Warhound is another Knight of the White Orchid. This means there's now the possibility of doing a straight swap of two Depression Automatons for two of these, which would be nice for the curve. Thing is, once the flicker engine gets going, the land count clause is likely to limit the returns from these guys. However, this is the least relevant/explosive of the current mana engines, so it's possible the curve benefits outweigh this limitation. Merits testing.
  • Robe of Stars would be a nice thing to put onto Feather. Spending two mana to properly protect her is a common occurrence, and paying a three mana overhead (some of it possibly in early setup) for the benefit of having a dispenser of those seems reasonable. Need to keep in mind that phasing is for the rest of the turn cycle, which could translate to insufficient power to convert spells in response, but that feels like a nitpick.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 months ago

I managed to get a solitary Knight of the White Orchid/Loyal Warhound substitution game in. Parked the Warhound in hand, drew a flicker pretty quickly. Had a bunch of early ramp so the Warhound only came out after Feather, and got blinked immediately on account of me tactically not drawing a land. At this point I started musing whether this would have been better as Depression Automaton, calculating how many extra lands I'd have gotten (nobody else was being particularly ramp'y, so I ran out of Warhound flicker potential quickly). And then I drew Dockside Extortionist, I made five treasures, and the blink had a new target. Suddenly the prior musings felt like splitting hairs for a super inefficient setup.

I'm ultimately not going to carry out the swaps at this time. These guys continue being secretly turn three ramp, so they don't accelerate Feather, and their minor curve benefits come with the baggage of relying on opposition to be allowed to ramp if joined with flicker.
 
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Post by gunar » 3 weeks ago

New set!

I'm going to try smoldering egg in my deck. Seems like:
-cheap to cast
-crazy removal. Add a shock to every spell?
-another target for Sarkhan's Triumph

downsides:
-slow
-generates lots of hate
-worse than others at hitting face

Everything else seems mediocre. Pump spells, ok red spells matter, blah blah. Bloodthirsty Adversary is probably the most interesting other card I see. I agree with you that recursion isn't needed, and Mavinda would be my go-to if I wanted this.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 weeks ago

Thanks for reminding me that I need to get off my butt and write up MID updates for the threads. None of my primers got anything, which coupled with a particularly unpleasant real life stretch made me get distracted.
 
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