Possible new Kamigawa set in the pipeline?

[Krishnath]

Maro's response on a new visit to Kamigawa has changed, considerably.

tizokshu asked:

Hi mark! I would like to ask about the chance of a possible return to kamigawa and kitsunes (foxfolk), what are the chances?

I never say never. : )

Source

Previously, his response was pretty negative.

[The Fluff]

this reminds me of the story of some kamigawa goblins throw rock at passing moonfolk as a way to pass time. Almost none of the goblins survived. haha xD

the chance is very slim, but I would like to peek again into this plane. Maybe just one set just like what they did with Dominaria.

more samurai and ninjas. And please no more overcosted useless cards.

[CommanderMaster999]

If it does happen the thing I want to see the most is spirit tribal (cheaper stuff)

And a 5-color spirit tribal legend (however that's extremely likely to happen in commander legends)

[AvalonAurora]

I'd love to see how Kamigawa is doing in more recent times. Wasn't the original set's timeline in the distant past of the story timeline it was released during (which was already pre-mending)? That would mean there would likely be a huge time gap between a set based on the current timeline's Kamigawa and the original set, which could make for interesting aspects of how things might have changed for some groups.

Given Tamiyo's thing is stories, perhaps the set could be set up lore wise as something of a Tamiyo's storytelling hour for her regular and adopted kids, telling them about the world they live in, and bits of it's history (sometimes in the form of things like Sagas and things like the legendary spells like Urza's Ruinous Blast from Dominaria), with perhaps some of her story circle planeswalker friends involved occasionally giving their own perspectives or details on things, or info from other planeswalkers she's talked to, or other locals of the plane she is friendly with or knows quotes from.

Such a setup could quickly summarize the history we missed and catch us up on the current state of the plane in a fun way, and would be easy to do as just a single set, similar to Dominaria.

Throw in spirits, samurai with bushido and ninja with ninjutsu, and you could wind up with a pretty cool set. I'd probably avoid a return of the arcane mechanic, although perhaps throw in one or two spells that work similar to it as a nod to it, and throw in something like the adventure and/or aftermath mechanics, perhaps a more automated version where a specific effect happens on the next upkeep, related to the sagas in a form of storytelling idea of 'this happened, and then because of that, this happened' kind of thing, to play around with the storytelling theme. I'd also consider working in elements of Japanese folklore and legends and popular stories that didn't make it into the original kamigawa in the form of some of the stories of things that happened since then, if with their own MtG and Kamigawa twists and tweaks.

I'd consider establishing a full cycle of 'friends of Tamiyo', taking places for the planeswalker decks of the set, with Tamiyo herself taking blue, likely Ajani as White, perhaps Janggu as green, and maybe Huatli as red, and perhaps establishing a new black planeswalker suitable for being a member of Tamiyo's story circle that she could trust around her kids and such. These wouldn't be the only planeswalkers telling stories though in the set, we'd probably also get others who have visited the plane or met Tamiyo or are members of the story circle but have color overlap with others, for instance, we'd probably also get bits of story from the likes of Narset, even if she has color overlap with others in terms of the planeswalker deck cycle, and it might be cool to have some kind of reference to some of Jace's adventures involving Agents of Artifice, perhaps hinting that Tamiyo caught up with Jace at some point and coaxed out of him stories of his own visit(s) to Kamigawa and perspectives of it for the purpose of the stuff she is telling the kids, even if he isn't a member of her story circle normally. Perhaps if Janggu is green, he could be, due to his young age, set up not just as a member of the story circle, but also listening to the stories along with the children, and giving his own comments in response to some things in some of the quotes on stuff, and be involved in any story articles on the official site or in any book published or whatnot.

Might also be nice to get some of Tamiyo's family as legendary creatures.

[JovialJovian]

Tamiyo's addition to the character lineup has always given me that tiny spark of hope that we could revisit Kamigawa at some point. But I still worry that it will get the Ulgrotha treatment and have its theme stolen to be used in a new plane, so as to not get caught up in the baggage of the original poorly received set. Although, Kamigawa has delivered many, many more cards that are often reprinted and have found beloved homes in several formats, something Homelands did not manage to do, so memories of Kamigawa may have turned rosy over the years.

[Krishnath]

Tamiyo's addition to the character lineup has always given me that tiny spark of hope that we could revisit Kamigawa at some point. But I still worry that it will get the Ulgrotha treatment and have its theme stolen to be used in a new plane, so as to not get caught up in the baggage of the original poorly received set. Although, Kamigawa has delivered many, many more cards that are often reprinted and have found beloved homes in several formats, something Homelands did not manage to do, so memories of Kamigawa may have turned rosy over the years.

Homelands main issue was that it was over printed, not lack of power. It contained three cards that were tournament staples: Memory Lapse, Serrated Arrows, and Autumn Willow. Additionally, Eron, the Relentless found a home as a finisher in early Sligh builds. It really wasn't a bad set. Same with Fallen Empires, the first, and so far, only set to have three banned common cards. Really powerful set at the time, horribly over printed.

Kamigawa suffered from other, and more serious issues: Over saturation of legendary creatures (if all your rare creatures are legendary, then the effect is that none of them are.), over costed cards (Didn't help it was stuck between the broken Mirrodin and powerful Ravnica), and terrible mechanics (I mean, Sweep? Come on!) many of which were horribly parasitic., and over saturation of the tribes (had they exchanged about 10-15% of the creatures with ones that weren't of the different tribes, the sets would have been better overall). Not to mention that one of the most important characters to the story, O-Kagachi, didn't get a card, at all. It'd be like doing the entirety of the Weatherlight saga without Gerrard. It was basically one bad decision after another with those three sets. But it did do some things right: Ninja's, Samurai, and their related mechanics were all great. Splice had potential, but they really dropped the ball on that one at the time, but Modern Horizons did a lot to redeem it.

[motleyslayer]

I have a lot of nostalgia for Kamigawa as a block because I was still incredibly new to the game. So I'd probably like to see a return, despite negative feelings towards the world the majority seems to have

[The Fluff]

Isamaru 2.0 would be a help to dog tribal in pioneer.

[Krishnath]

Isamaru 2.0 would be a help to dog tribal in pioneer.

I do believe that Isamaru is very, very dead. It's been millennia since O.G. Kamigawa's story.

[The N82O Molecule]

Isamaru 2.0 would be a help to dog tribal in pioneer.

I do believe that Isamaru is very, very dead. It's been millennia since O.G. Kamigawa's story.

come on now, your gonna sit there and tell me you don't think he had puppies?

Kamigawa was one of my favorites. the orochi tribe set was super fun, man dropping Seshiro the Anointed was so fun. Konda, that card is major. Brothers Yamazaki in this day and age, imagine the cool art combos they could have

you could finally have a umezawa planeswalker

hopefully That Which Was Taken gets taken again.

I could go on

[Krishnath]

Isamaru 2.0 would be a help to dog tribal in pioneer.

I do believe that Isamaru is very, very dead. It's been millennia since O.G. Kamigawa's story.

come on now, your gonna sit there and tell me you don't think he had puppies?

Although possible, as I said, it's been literal millennia since our last visit, any bloodline would be long since diluted to oblivion.

[The Fluff]

I think it depends on what kind of visit the wotc design team want do... they could visit like in Dominaria - where the present Dominaria is shown - if they do something like that, we would see the "present Kamigawa", where most of the original cast are gone. Or they could do a set of Kamigawa... showing the place immediately after O-Kagachi was defeated - if they do it like this, we could see some of the original cast still alive.

[Krishnath]

I think it depends on what kind of visit the wotc design team want do... they could visit like in Dominaria - where the present Dominaria is shown - if they do something like that, we would see the "present Kamigawa", where most of the original cast are gone. Or they could do a set of Kamigawa... showing the place immediately after O-Kagachi was defeated - if they do it like this, we could see some of the original cast still alive.

Logically they'd do the former, because the latter would mean no planeswalkers and people love planeswalkers.

If they do the former, there could be a series of Sagas to "retell" some of the things that happened in the old Kamigawa block, and some of the things that may have happened in between and/or prior. Much like both Dominaria and Theros:BD did. The logical face for the set would of course be Tamiyo.

[Zazdor]

I think Sagas are great go-to options for all sets (from a story perspective). For new sets, it lets us get a glimpse into the history and cultures of the world; for returns, we can connect back to previous visits.

[void_nothing]

I think Sagas are great go-to options for all sets (from a story perspective). For new sets, it lets us get a glimpse into the history and cultures of the world; for returns, we can connect back to previous visits.

Agreed. And since Kamigawa has a reputation for having a great storyline despite its other faults, well...

(Also... Hello!)

[JovialJovian]

I think Sagas are great go-to options for all sets (from a story perspective). For new sets, it lets us get a glimpse into the history and cultures of the world; for returns, we can connect back to previous visits.

Not just Sagas, but the Historic mechanic as a whole would be a great fit for Kamigawa for the same reasons it works in Dominaria, and would give them a good excuse to pack in all those uncommon Legendaries again.

[The N82O Molecule]

I do believe that Isamaru is very, very dead. It's been millennia since O.G. Kamigawa's story.

come on now, your gonna sit there and tell me you don't think he had puppies?

Although possible, as I said, it's been literal millennia since our last visit, any bloodline would be long since diluted to oblivion.

boooo lol

honestly looking back isamaru sorta sticks out as a one of. but Kamigawa is the place that introduced powerful war dogs. if I so wine about it id think that Kamigawa would be a real good place to enhance dog tribal but I sound like a cat person. no cats on Kamigawa. haha

anyway ill always support going back, I think wizards is a lot smarter now and would knock it out of the park.

[Guardman]

come on now, your gonna sit there and tell me you don't think he had puppies?

Although possible, as I said, it's been literal millennia since our last visit, any bloodline would be long since diluted to oblivion.

boooo lol

honestly looking back isamaru sorta sticks out as a one of. but Kamigawa is the place that introduced powerful war dogs. if I so wine about it id think that Kamigawa would be a real good place to enhance dog tribal but I sound like a cat person. no cats on Kamigawa. haha

anyway ill always support going back, I think wizards is a lot smarter now and would knock it out of the park.

They could always do something like "Ako, Descendant of Isamaru" with the flavor text something like "A bloodline unbroken." It actually sounds like a really sweet card just from the idea alone.

[Krishnath]

They could always do something like "Ako, Descendant of Isamaru" with the flavor text something like "A bloodline unbroken." It actually sounds like a really sweet card just from the idea alone.

Indeed, or they could do "Isamaru, Spirit of Loyalty" or some such and make it a Spirit Dog (or Dog Spirit). That could work as well.

[NZB2323]

I think it's more likely that we'll get Kamigawa characters in the next Commander Legends set.

[Krishnath]

I think it's more likely that we'll get Kamigawa characters in the next Commander Legends set.

I would say that it is pretty much inevitable that Commander Legends will have characters from Kamigawa, but that is not really what is the issue here. After years of Maro answering the question if we will ever return to Kamigawa (as in a set) was an emphatic no, he has now essentially changed it to "maybe", which is Maro speak for "this is likely to happen, but it might not."
That is a major shift in the opinion of the head designer of MTG, which means something has happened behind the scenes to change WotC's opinion of the Kamigawa sets and world. Now, I am in no way associated with WotC, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with the success that the return of Ninja's in Modern Horizons, and the increasing popularity of Tamiyo (She gets more and more fans each time she appears and we learn more about her.)

[folding_music]

I wonder if they'd continue the Spirits vs non-Spirits mechanics? Stuff like Field of Reality is now really funny and underpowered to read, divorced from the point of the set.
and if they tried Splice again, I'd like to see them retcon the game entirely and just have reminder text that says "Instants and sorcery spells are Arcane" and I don't care what it'd do to the balance of the existing cards. The old Kamigawa cards are stranded casually because we all know Splice is fiddly and most of the effects cost too much, so I'd frankly rather see Hana Kami become too good than have a pile of useless cards. Maybe you could have permanents which create the rule "Instants and sorcery spells are Arcane" instead of a complete retcon and for balance's sake? but have those cards be actually playable and available to every colour. I know some of these cards were relevant in limited at the time, and I remember some sort of 4c green Hana Kami control deck? But really, the Splice and Soulshift cards in general are some of the most underpowered unwanted bulk cardboard in the whole game and itd be fun to give them new meaning

[CommanderMaster999]

I wonder if they'd continue the Spirits vs non-Spirits mechanics? Stuff like Field of Reality is now really funny and underpowered to read, divorced from the point of the set.
and if they tried Splice again, I'd like to see them retcon the game entirely and just have reminder text that says "Instants and sorcery spells are Arcane" and I don't care what it'd do to the balance of the existing cards. The old Kamigawa cards are stranded casually because we all know Splice is fiddly and most of the effects cost too much, so I'd frankly rather see Hana Kami become too good than have a pile of useless cards. Maybe you could have permanents which create the rule "Instants and sorcery spells are Arcane" instead of a complete retcon and for balance's sake? but have those cards be actually playable and available to every colour. I know some of these cards were relevant in limited at the time, and I remember some sort of 4c green Hana Kami control deck? But really, the Splice and Soulshift cards in general are some of the most underpowered unwanted bulk cardboard in the whole game and itd be fun to give them new meaning

The spirit tribal will probably stay just not so poopy cards this time my guess something like "choose spirit or non-Spirit"

And in retrospect from the cards from kamigawa and Innistrad you could make a overpowered spirit tribal deck in commander they just didn't get a proper 5-color legend (not even O-kagachi from C17) also some spirits could be lower costed

And soulshift could have been better

[Krishnath]

And soulshift could have been better

Indeed it could be, it was a little to parasitic to be useful. But that was the problem with a lot of the mechanics in the set, if they weren't outright bad. I mean, come on, whoever thought that Sweep was a good idea? "Yeah, I am going to manascrew myself into oblivion for a minor benefit.", If a mechanic relies on you to return a large number of your lands to your hand, it had better be nigh game ending right then and there, or else you are going to get screwed. The block only had two good mechanics, Bushido and Ninjitsu, the only reason Splice wasn't considered a good mechanic at the time was because it got screwed by an arbitrary choice to restrict it to a minority of the spells via the "Arcane" subtype (but to be fair, Maro wanted it to be able to splice to any instant or sorcery but got overruled at the time, the mechanic got redeemed in Modern Horizons).

The set was also hurt by the lack of tribal support for its various tribes, over costed cards (which is even more glaring when compared to today's power level of cards, but was a massive issue even then), arbitrary rarities (Come on, there is no way in hell Tendo Ice Bridge should be rare, if they ever reprint it, it better be common. They printed a cycle of better versions of it in Lorwyn, and they were uncommon, and they still weren't good), and the few good cards were horribly over powered (Umezawa's Jitte being the standout).

Kamigawa block is literally worse than Masques block, and that is saying a lot.

[palaguin]

Before I read this thread, I was thinking last night that WotC might bring back Kamigawa or Tarkir because D&D will want a more modern take on an Oriental setting, as for some reason Kara-Tur is not "woke" enough, and using these two planes will mean less world building and a preexisting fan base.