Ghired's Cloned Stampede

thatbrawlguy
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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

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Our latest and totally greatest Naya commander is here! Time to rustle up your best token generators and get them out on the range, cuz now we bout to make the greatest stampede ya ever did see!

Howdy ya'll, welcome to what I am hoping will become a primer for our boy Ghired, Mirror of the Wilds. In this guide I will be presenting you with a lot of information, from the deck's strengths and weaknesses to notable cards to terrible match ups. Basically any thing and every thing you'll need I hope to slap into this puppy. For you early birds though just keep in mind that the primer is gonna have to be built up over time so if it seems bare bones for now fret not! We will be shaping it up as we go.

So first off, what is Ghired, Mirror of the Wilds all about? Tokens. Creature tokens? Yes, but so much more than that! Using his ability we can create a copy of any token we control that etb'd this turn. Creatures are mostly small potatoes. Treasures. Bloods. Clues. Foods. Even token copies of things! His ability is only limited to your imagination! (and unfortunately our cards *womp womp*)

But to make more tokens we need to have creatures who can be tapped. Thankfully Ghired our good ol' boy already has haste, so no need to worry about him. But a couple haste enablers would go a long way to make our others guys be more useful to make more tokens or to allow our tokens to be even nastier in combat. Preferably we want to have a decent number of lower cost dorks to be ready on the turn we drop Ghired to maximize our token gains.

What kind of effects does Ghired want? Well he synergizes with any thing that goes wide or benefits from it. Craterhoof is a no brainer obviously, Jetmir is pretty strong, and other effects like Rite of Harmony are definite includes. But what else could we do here? Well, red has a few ways to generate tokens of creatures already in play so we could utilize powerful creatures like Terror of the Peaks and turn it into TWELVE Terror of the Peaks. Or you could make a copy of Outcaster Trailblazer , start pumping out an army of it, make a buncha mana and get a buncha cards! Or maybe you just wanna dump half your deck into play by creating a buttload of Trumpeting Carnosaurs? Basically, if it has a strong effect and you could copy it you might wanna consider it. How about ramp though? Most G/x decks rely on their ramp and mana fixing to come from Rampant Growth effects. Us though? Nah pardner, Ghired is more interested in making treasures to ramp with. Not only can treasure just explode in one turn, but if you don't have any thing else to play during that turn you could just bank it up instead. Of course, there's two downsides to treasure ramp to keep in mind. Once you spend it well it's just gone. And secondly, they're prone to artifact hate. In most playgroups I would say go with the treasures over the land ramp, but just make sure you adjust your own ramp packages according to your meta.

In addition to the treasures Ghired does enjoy having some low cost mana dorks laying around. In the early turns they do their job of getting you where you need to be then performing later as token makers. So a few of these are always appreciated.

Lastly for your ramp package you should think about adding in a few creatures that can generate mana without the need of tapping. Things like Wild Cantor or Burning-Tree Emissary are really good once you can start making a full ranch out of them.
Aight so, we got cool splashy effects, down, a win con or two and our ramp figured out. What's next? We need gas right? As a lot of other commanders enjoy their card advantage being tied to a creature body so does Ghired. Any creature that gives us any kind of advantage also has the ability to make more tokens so we prefer having an extra hand on this ranch rather than resorting to non-creatures to find more gas. Things like Outcaster Trailblazer, Imperial Recruiter, Professional Face-Breaker. Oh yeah, each of these cowboys put in the work but there's so many more you could utilize. And don't forget, we can always make more of these card advantage guys if we find a copier! Just make sure that what ever cards you're using for gas could be used in more than one way.
What about protection? We're obviously gonna get blown up and since we're mostly a token deck that hurts us even more than your average commander. So we can play things like Selfless Spirit. Bodyguard effects are going to be your best choices since like I said before any body can also be used to generate more tokens. But of course never forget about Clever Concealment. You should have plenty of creatures out to cast this thing for free and just ask your opponents "what board are you gonna wipe again?" Also, don't forget about effects like Grand Abolisher or our favorite Ranger Captain!
Next we come to removal. Sure, you can run your standard suite of Swords or Path or what have you. But the smart ones are going to make sure they have a number of creatures they could make tokens of to increase our removal numbers further. Flametongue Kavu, Wicked Wolf, Reclamation Sage. Some of our win conditions like Terror of the Peaks and Roxanne can be used as removal if we just can't muster the win that turn as well. So keep cards like this in mind when you're building your package of annihilation!
Ghired also has room for a few....well utility cards. Things such as Vitalize, Seedborn Muse, Ertha Jo, Frontier Mentor. Ya know, the kinds of grease that just makes your gears turn all the easier. Or make them wheels fly right off the wagon! There's various ways to untap your creatures, double up on triggers and activations, give our team haste, or pick things back up from the graveyard.
Now let's get into the real meat of the deck: TOKENS! We're gonna be making a bunch of them and we need some good ones. Take your pick from dorks to monsters, make a fistful of blood (please don't do this literally), or drown your opponents in card advantage with clues!
But that's not enough! We really need things that make sure we're making tokens each and every turn! You don't wanna play one token maker but run out of steam on the next turn. We gotta keep that train a rolling!
One last subsection of tokens that every deck needs is the army in a can. One card that by itself can just generate a TON of tokens. For us they generate so much resource value that you definitely need a few of these in your deck.
Oh wait...yeah no we got two more subsection of tokens to go over! How the heck could I forget about doublers! Yeah, the competitive players might think these are over kill, but hey it's commander. We're here to go big right?
And now I hear you say "but brawlguy, what about these token copiers I keep hearing about?" After looking through list upon list of these things I really gotta say I wish Ghired was Temur instead of Naya, but hey trust me, we still got some amazing offers in these colors. Jaxis, the Troublemaker and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker are the darn tootinest of the tootin', able to give you tokens of your best pardners at a moment's notice. Jaxis might even be better in some situations as she's so much cheaper than Kiki if all you need is just one turn. Molten Duplication allows us to generate some value, but again just for that one turn. It's fine as long as you have enough hands to make it worth it. Nexus of Becoming and Bramble Sovereign even give us ways to do it turn after turn!
All righty folks, we're almost at the end of the this list of nifty cards, but what kinda token deck would be complete without anthems? We're gonna be making lots of creatures so having ways to buff them is gonna go a long way. You'll get a lot of value out of cards like Jetmir, Warleader's Call, and Beastmaster's Ascencion! Lastly....the section that will fill you with utter joy or make you turn away in digsust: COMBOS! So yeah, Ghired allows for some pretty easy infinite combos with the likes of Village Bell-Ringer, Battered Golem, or Hyrax Tower Scout. As far as Ghired specific combos there's quite a lot of them, but these three seem to be the prime culprits so far in these lists.
All of that stuff up there? That was just a load of words to get ya brewin' juices flowing. I'd love for you take a look at those notes and just cook up ya own list....but I know that's not for every one. Or heck, maybe ya just wanna look at my own list so you can criticize me! Is all good, I don't mind a spit war with ya at all heh. So, without further ado, here's what I'm running at the moment:
Ghired's stampedin' clones!

Battle (1)

Approximate Total Cost:

So, a better looking decklist can be found here!
You can keep up with my current decklist better with this link. I will edit the deck on this post time to time when I feel like more changes won't happen often. Also, I will never cut any thing completely from my list, just move it over to my maybe board. So if you just wanna look and see what I've toyed around with that could also make for some good discussion, too!

As this post here is getting a bit long, I'll go ahead and save the break down and ideas behind the list in the next one, as well as continue on with the rest of the guide itself from there!
Last edited by thatbrawlguy 1 week ago, edited 4 times in total.

thatbrawlguy
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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

All right, let's giddy up lil' doggies, we gotta continue on with the guide now!

So, picking up from last post we're gonna go over my own decklist and break it down.
I would first of all like to explain what goals I have, not just what the deck wants to do but the play experience I want to have. I want to be some where in between a high powered deck and more casual stuffs. So, with that in mind I don't have deterministically infinite combos in the deck, nor do I have easy combos outside of Jaxis and Kiki-Jiki. The deck mostly consists of highly synergistic pieces all playing together to create threatening board states. As it stands now the deck is very very strong when left uninterrupted, but I have yet to include any real protection pieces which is on purpose. Playing with randos I always warn them that the deck is fast and fairly strong, but folds easily to mass removal or even a bunch of shots taken at it. The best thing about Ghired imo is that spot removal in response once he already gets on the field isn't the end all be all if you've got a lot of guys out to tap in response. So interestingly enough spot removal isn't a huge weakness here.

Now onto the cards themselves:
Main win conditions:
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Trumpeting Carnosaur
Yeah yeah yeah, [card=]Etali, Primal Conqueror // Etali, Primal Sickness[/card] is every one's favorite dinosaur. But ya know what, the Carnosaur is often forgotten about and it's such a shame. He has plenty of strengths that make him a superior choice. 1 less mana, can be used as removal as a pinch, and in our deck we will actually be able to keep the tokens around if that's relevant. So yeah, go nuts, make a huge army of dinosaurs and put your deck on the table!

Roxanne, Starfall Savant
Throwing a bunch of Meteorites is actually really good. She has the chance to just end games if you're in a more aggro meta and can finish people off. And she also doubles what our already large number of treasures can do! So she definitely fits in perfectly for the deck.

Terror of the Peaks
Thing has been ending games long before Ghired was ever thought of and it's just as at home in this deck as any other. Even if you can't copy him the amount of damage you'll be throwing around from all your other token etbs should be enough.

Plargg, Dean of Chaos // Augusta, Dean of Order
Essentially Augusta doubles our ability to create tokens and serves as a mini anthem. You can easily create a game winning board with her out and even pump those tokens to make sure you take the win home. Plargg has added utility to be able to get us gas if we've run out.
Ramp
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Generous Plunderer
Gives us a nice way to generate a treasure each turn instead of as just a one-shot effect. Giving another player a treasure each turn is a risk yes, but a minimal one. He also punishes artifact based decks and you also have the possibility of just killing some one with him if you eot make a ton of him.

Gala Greeters
Treasures, life gain. What's not to love? Making a few copies of this guy can really cause you to pop off.

Magda, Brazen Outlaw
Ramp and tutors for two of our best cards.

Professional Face-Breaker
Ramp and impulse draw. With the number of treasures we can generate he's been a heavy hitter for the deck.

Cryptolith Rite
Mostly here to give us some thing to do with our tokens. Our non-tokens some times make the mana, but we're able to get haste a lot so this card is pretty big.

Prosperous Partnership
Again, mostly here to give us some thing to do with the tokens. But it's one of the reasons we make so many treasures. Being able to do it at eot is huge too.
Card Advantage
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Goblin Engineer
Most decks this isn't pure card advantage but here we're easily able to sac a treasure to get what ever we binned. Gets a few of our key pieces in the deck.

Magda, Brazen Outlaw
Can tutor our two of our big cards and makes treasures. So yeah, very very strong in the deck.

Imperial Recruiter // Recruiter of the Guard
Both get most of our deck for us, especially the key pieces to grease us along. Either grab Kiki-Jiki. So making copies of these things really puts you far ahead on card advantage.

Trumpeting Carnosaur
Win condition and card advantage at the same time. Plays all but one card from our deck. Token copies go BRRRRR!

Halo Fountain
Utility piece that can do a lot. Makes tokens, draws cards, untaps things, and forces opponents to keep track of how many creatures we have or else we can just win the game.

Nexus of Becoming
Technically it's card advantage-neutral, but it puts a copyiable body on the board and draws us cards. So while neutral in hand, it can easily go very plus in resources. And it's a really good way to get extra copies of some thing out.

Evolutionary Leap
Turns our token dorks into card advantage.

Rite of Harmony
Card goes nuts with the deck. Wouldn't build this commander without it!
Last edited by thatbrawlguy 1 week ago, edited 3 times in total.

thatbrawlguy
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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

Reserved ya dirty varmints!


Things I'll be adding to this prime wannabe:

Match up guides

Budget alternatives

Secret tech cards

Rules specific to Ghired and certain other cards
Last edited by thatbrawlguy 1 week ago, edited 1 time in total.

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 week ago

First glance, I feel like you have too many effects that want you to tap your creatures when you want them for Ghired's ability. I also think going in on treasure has the possibility of setting up a big turn, but you're not going to want to be tapping for treasure when you have valuable stuff to copy.

thatbrawlguy
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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

yeti1069 wrote:
1 week ago
First glance, I feel like you have too many effects that want you to tap your creatures when you want them for Ghired's ability. I also think going in on treasure has the possibility of setting up a big turn, but you're not going to want to be tapping for treasure when you have valuable stuff to copy.
Appreciate the feedback!
First off I'd like to say the list is definitely not set in stone right now. I'm still in the process of balancing the deck out, tweaking numbers, figuring out what's good and not. So what it is now is probably going to be far from where it ends up once tuned.

Um, not sure what you mean I have too many effects outside of Ghired's ability? Besides mana dorks and token makers we have what? Goblin Engineer? Faldorn, Krenko, Prosperous Partnership and Cryptolith Rite. That's 5 cards in total outside of dorks and token makers that would tap for things not using Ghired's ability, two of which are also allowing us to use any creatures tokens we've made to generate advantages. And they're all extremely invaluable. Is that too many? Cuz I certainly haven't had any problems with having guys to tap for tokens at all.

The treasures are usually piled up on turns 3 and 4, some times 5 if I got a slower start. Normally by turn 5 and onwards we're hitting the big leagues with all the treasure we been burning through. It's not uncommon to have gotten 7+ treasures laying around by turn 4.

Honestly the biggest problem I have with the deck is keeping the gas coming xD
I really need to find more card advantage that synergizes well with the deck. Things like Face-breaker and Faldorn.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 week ago

Hi, good job on starting a primer!

The way you have it formatted isn't how deck lists are normally posted and is quite hard to read. I've posted the usual way in the spoiler below and it has the advantage that you and others can use the analysis tools to check stats of the deck. You can just reply to this post and copy and paste content within the spoiler tag.
SPOILER
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Ghired's stampedin' clones!

Battle (1)

Approximate Total Cost:


I have noticed this is a fairly unlimited budget with Cradle, Taiga, Plateau, so I would definitely include Dockside Extortionist if you can afford it.

I agree with yeti1069 that you have cards that conflict with each other imo, with Cryptolith Rite, Prosperous Partnership. They might do a little for you if you get token creatures going, but otherwise they don't do anything that you normally wouldn't be doing with creating Treasures.

I'm also not a fan of making 1/1 token creatures as a plan, I just feel like there can be much better things you could do.
I'd cut Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald and Krenko, Baron of Tin Street at the very least.

I think you've got too many haste enablers. They won't be as good as you think. I personally would cut all of them.

I would definitely get some Clue token enablers because there will be games where you get all the Treasures in the world with no actual card advantage. Tireless Tracker is the best.
Also Ghired as an engine is about tapping nontoken creatures and your mana curve does creep up. So I'd be more inclined to swap more expensive creatures for enablers like Novice Inspector and Thraben Inspector.
You want to be playing a turn 1 creature, turn 2 creature and then Ghired on turn 3. So now you have 3 creatures you can tap on turn 4 to get advantages of hopefully a treasure play.
Sarah Jane Smith also will trigger most turns if you wanted.
So yeah prioritize creatures in the 1-2 mana curve will really help you get to the more expensive stuff quicker, but the ratio needs to be better balanced at this stage. Just prioritizing creatures over noncreature spells is going to help a lot as well.

There is more stuff I'd change but don't want to overwhelm you on first post :P

White Plume Adventurer is a nice include.

yeti1069
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Post by yeti1069 » 1 week ago

thatbrawlguy wrote:
1 week ago
yeti1069 wrote:
1 week ago
First glance, I feel like you have too many effects that want you to tap your creatures when you want them for Ghired's ability. I also think going in on treasure has the possibility of setting up a big turn, but you're not going to want to be tapping for treasure when you have valuable stuff to copy.
Appreciate the feedback!
First off I'd like to say the list is definitely not set in stone right now. I'm still in the process of balancing the deck out, tweaking numbers, figuring out what's good and not. So what it is now is probably going to be far from where it ends up once tuned.

Um, not sure what you mean I have too many effects outside of Ghired's ability? Besides mana dorks and token makers we have what? Goblin Engineer? Faldorn, Krenko, Prosperous Partnership and Cryptolith Rite. That's 5 cards in total outside of dorks and token makers that would tap for things not using Ghired's ability, two of which are also allowing us to use any creatures tokens we've made to generate advantages. And they're all extremely invaluable. Is that too many? Cuz I certainly haven't had any problems with having guys to tap for tokens at all.

The treasures are usually piled up on turns 3 and 4, some times 5 if I got a slower start. Normally by turn 5 and onwards we're hitting the big leagues with all the treasure we been burning through. It's not uncommon to have gotten 7+ treasures laying around by turn 4.

Honestly the biggest problem I have with the deck is keeping the gas coming xD
I really need to find more card advantage that synergizes well with the deck. Things like Face-breaker and Faldorn.
What's the goal for the deck? Combo? Beats? Big mana?

As @darrenhabib points out, making a bunch of 1/1 tokens seems fairly underwhelming here--you're tapping a nontoken creature to copy a 1/1? That's not winning you games. So all the effects that rely on tapping creatures (Cryptolith, Prosperous Partnership were the ones that jumped out at me), as either fighting for resources with what Ghired wants to be doing, or rely on you committing to a mediocre strategy of copying 1/1 tokens. If you ARE going this route, I think you need some Overrun effects. Terror of the Peaks is good, but not great if all you're doing is making 1/1s.

Copying treasure tokens can set up big turns, but you don't seem to have many cards that even care about having big mana, and again, you're functionally building Cryptolith Rite with extra steps (make a treasure, tap a creature to make a treasure).

I play an OG Ghired list where the goal is to copy some highly impactful creature (Thunderfoot Baloth, Pathbreaker Ibex, Aurelia, the Warleader, Craterhoof Behemoth) or utility creature (Ohran Frostfang, Nesting Dovehawk, Wood Elves, Knight of Autumn, Outcaster Trailblazer, Firbolg Flutist) with something like Kiki-Jiki, Rionya, Fire Dancer, etc...and then make more copies of those creatures. OG Ghired is aggressive (needs to attack, makes an attacking copy, and brings a decent 4/4 trample token as a baseline), while the new Ghired can do other stuff.

You could be copying actual creatures or artifacts that have strong ETBs (card draw, ramp, removal), or copying bigger tokens. I feel like the ideal balance here is creatures that generate decently-sized/valued tokens, since you need creature cards to tap to his ability. God-Eternal Oketra is probably good here: every creature you cast makes a 4/4 vigilance token, so you can cast dorks or utility creatures to make an army of beefy tokens, then tap those weenies to make more beefy tokens.

Having some populate effects that go off each turn will help to keep making tokens. Determined Iteration is probably good here. I will also disagree with darrenhabib's suggestion of cutting the haste enablers. You want the weenies you drop to be able to make tokens, and the tokens Ghired makes don't come with haste. I think keeping haste is a good idea, but I don't think Rhythm of the Wild is where you want to be, since that won't give haste to the tokens.

thatbrawlguy
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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
Hi, good job on starting a primer!

The way you have it formatted isn't how deck lists are normally posted and is quite hard to read. I've posted the usual way in the spoiler below and it has the advantage that you and others can use the analysis tools to check stats of the deck. You can just reply to this post and copy and paste content within the spoiler tag.
Thank you very much! I was an avid user on the website before it was switched over to salvation which was a long ass time ago heh. I saw Ghired and just knew I had to get back to it! I gotta learn how to use the new stuff :p
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
I have noticed this is a fairly unlimited budget with Cradle, Taiga, Plateau, so I would definitely include Dockside Extortionist if you can afford it.
Dockside is uh...a notable exclusion for reasons. I've decided to leave it out because I pretty much have never seen one cast and not just immediately win haha. I'm okay with doing combos and being a bit of higher power, but I also wanna walk the line of being beatable lol
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
I agree with yeti1069 that you have cards that conflict with each other imo, with Cryptolith Rite, Prosperous Partnership. They might do a little for you if you get token creatures going, but otherwise they don't do anything that you normally wouldn't be doing with creating Treasures.
Yet those two both give me things to do with the number of creature tokens I'll be making which to me is wildly important. In the early testing I was having problems with having just a buncha dorks but nothing for them to do. Partnership especially synergizes with Face-Breaker and any other artifact shenanigans you could get up to which surprising is more than you'd initially think.
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
I'm also not a fan of making 1/1 token creatures as a plan, I just feel like there can be much better things you could do.
I'd cut Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald and Krenko, Baron of Tin Street at the very least.
Good thing that's not exactly the plan! Most of the 1/1s in the deck are incidental, such as Emmara, and not the main focus. The actual focus of the deck is to end up copying bigger monsters such as Trumpeting Carnosaur or Terror. Krenko actually synergizes very well with the treasures in the deck, allowing us to build an instant board. And then if we have Seedborn or Drumbellower it's going to be an easy gg from there.

Faldorn may seem odd at first glance but she's been pretty good so far. I know it's not exactly amazing at first blush, nor is it amazing every game, but I like how she's both token synergy and gas at the same time. And if you ever live the dream of her and Face-Breaker going off you'll really love her. But yeah, I could see cutting her if I find another card advantage engine that synergizes with the deck just as well.
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
I think you've got too many haste enablers. They won't be as good as you think. I personally would cut all of them.
Too many? There's 1 actual haste enabler and a semi in Thousand-Year Elixir. That's too many? o.o
Tuktuk has actually been very strong in the games so far allowing me to pop off immediately and since it's tutorable with Recruiter of the Guard I've been loving it.
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
I would definitely get some Clue token enablers because there will be games where you get all the Treasures in the world with no actual card advantage. Tireless Tracker is the best.
Mhms, was definitely gonna be looking into getting some clues or two.

[
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
Also Ghired as an engine is about tapping nontoken creatures and your mana curve does creep up. So I'd be more inclined to swap more expensive creatures for enablers like Novice Inspector and Thraben Inspector.
You want to be playing a turn 1 creature, turn 2 creature and then Ghired on turn 3. So now you have 3 creatures you can tap on turn 4 to get advantages of hopefully a treasure play.
Yep, my mv 3 area is pretty glutted up with stuffs. Could definitely cut some there and swap them down to 1 and 2.
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
Sarah Jane Smith also will trigger most turns if you wanted.
Maybe. I tried toying with Peri Brown thinking I had more than enough legendaries to make her useful, but in actual play it didn't come up that much. Of course, the card is 4 mana as opposed to 2, so maybe I'll get use out it. I'll have to test!

darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
White Plume Adventurer is a nice include.
Is it better than Drumbellower though? I know bellower doesn't' do the whole initiative thing, but being tutorable is a pretty big deal.

thatbrawlguy
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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

yeti1069 wrote:
1 week ago

What's the goal for the deck? Combo? Beats? Big mana?

As @darrenhabib points out, making a bunch of 1/1 tokens seems fairly underwhelming here--you're tapping a nontoken creature to copy a 1/1? That's not winning you games. So all the effects that rely on tapping creatures (Cryptolith, Prosperous Partnership were the ones that jumped out at me), as either fighting for resources with what Ghired wants to be doing, or rely on you committing to a mediocre strategy of copying 1/1 tokens. If you ARE going this route, I think you need some Overrun effects. Terror of the Peaks is good, but not great if all you're doing is making 1/1s.
Combo for the most part, with a few back up plans. As I pointed out in the post above the 1/1s are mostly incidental. We're really planning on making copies of some big thing like Terror or Carnosaur to pop off. And I think you have the wrong idea about Terror. We want to make copies of IT, not a buncha 1/1s.
yeti1069 wrote:
1 week ago
I play an OG Ghired list where the goal is to copy some highly impactful creature (Thunderfoot Baloth, Pathbreaker Ibex, Aurelia, the Warleader, Craterhoof Behemoth) or utility creature (Ohran Frostfang, Nesting Dovehawk, Wood Elves, Knight of Autumn, Outcaster Trailblazer, Firbolg Flutist) with something like Kiki-Jiki, Rionya, Fire Dancer, etc...and then make more copies of those creatures. OG Ghired is aggressive (needs to attack, makes an attacking copy, and brings a decent 4/4 trample token as a baseline), while the new Ghired can do other stuff.
[/card]
Best card I see in this list is the Aurelia, totally forgot about her. However, I don't want to do deterministically infinite combos.
Nesting is also nice, I'm thinking about adding it lately.
Thunderfoot seems like a nice addition, but erm I'm not entirely sure about a dumb beat that's useless without my commander. Pathbreaker would probably be better than Thunderfoot.
Firbolg yet again leads to deterministic infinites.
Rionya actually looks interesting. For some reason when I first saw it I thought you HAD to use some spells to trigger it. Now on second pass it's getting some consideration.
yeti1069 wrote:
1 week ago
You could be copying actual creatures or artifacts that have strong ETBs (card draw, ramp, removal), or copying bigger tokens. I feel like the ideal balance here is creatures that generate decently-sized/valued tokens, since you need creature cards to tap to his ability. God-Eternal Oketra is probably good here: every creature you cast makes a 4/4 vigilance token, so you can cast dorks or utility creatures to make an army of beefy tokens, then tap those weenies to make more beefy tokens.
Yes, I do want to add some thing like this actually. Oketra is in my brawl build on arena and she's pretty good there. Was also thinking of including that new green guy from the big score that I can't remember the name of now. He was in the initial test builds but got cut.
yeti1069 wrote:
1 week ago
Having some populate effects that go off each turn will help to keep making tokens. Determined Iteration is probably good here. I will also disagree with darrenhabib's suggestion of cutting the haste enablers. You want the weenies you drop to be able to make tokens, and the tokens Ghired makes don't come with haste. I think keeping haste is a good idea, but I don't think Rhythm of the Wild is where you want to be, since that won't give haste to the tokens.
I thought about Iteration but concluded that not giving haste to every thing is a no go, and when I do copy things big enough to attack I'm doing things that are good enough that the haste doesn't matter as much. Carnosaurs, Terrors, Roxannes.
With that said though! I probably will have some similar effects in the final build.

So yeah, thank you for the feedback and you've definitely given me some things to think about!

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 week ago

thatbrawlguy wrote:
1 week ago
Too many? There's 1 actual haste enabler and a semi in Thousand-Year Elixir. That's too many? o.o
Hammer of Purphoros
Is it better than Drumbellower though? I know bellower doesn't' do the whole initiative thing, but being tutorable is a pretty big deal.
Is Drumbellower better than Seedborn Muse? I'm not sure why I'm asking this question :P

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 week ago

I'm only seeing 6 ways to copy your creatures, and 2 of those are 1-shots, so you're pretty limited on how regularly you'll be copying stuff.

The reason I suggested Dovehawk, Rionya, and Iteration was that Ghired can only copy tokens you've made that turn, which can make copying for value difficult if you don't have a repeatable copier, or if you are digging for answers. Having a way to generate a copy of a token without employing Ghired means you can start the whole token copying engine again on a following turn without needing a card that makes the copies.

The untappers are only relevant if you're making more tokens on other turns. I don't think White Plume is better than Drum without other venturing--you're looking at 5 turns to get to untap everything.

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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
thatbrawlguy wrote:
1 week ago
Too many? There's 1 actual haste enabler and a semi in Thousand-Year Elixir. That's too many? o.o
Hammer of Purphoros
Yeah I did forget about that hah. It's nice that it can be tutored by a few different things since it's enchantment and artifact. And making more tokens in addition to giving haste is definitely good.
darrenhabib wrote:
1 week ago
thatbrawlguy wrote:
1 week ago

Is it better than Drumbellower though? I know bellower doesn't' do the whole initiative thing, but being tutorable is a pretty big deal.
Is Drumbellower better than Seedborn Muse? I'm not sure why I'm asking this question :P
Actually, and I know this sounds crazy, but yes. Drumbellower is better in THIS VERSION of the deck since we don't have all that much to do with instants right now. Bellower is a lil' bit less powerful but being only 3 mana and still getting to untap our creatures actually does push it out over Muse. It's also tutorable by both Recruiters where as Muse can only be hit by one of them.

thatbrawlguy
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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

yeti1069 wrote:
1 week ago
I'm only seeing 6 ways to copy your creatures, and 2 of those are 1-shots, so you're pretty limited on how regularly you'll be copying stuff.

The reason I suggested Dovehawk, Rionya, and Iteration was that Ghired can only copy tokens you've made that turn, which can make copying for value difficult if you don't have a repeatable copier, or if you are digging for answers. Having a way to generate a copy of a token without employing Ghired means you can start the whole token copying engine again on a following turn without needing a card that makes the copies.

The untappers are only relevant if you're making more tokens on other turns. I don't think White Plume is better than Drum without other venturing--you're looking at 5 turns to get to untap everything.
No I totally I agree with you that I need a few more. Just trying to figure out what the best ones are and at what numbers. Rionya is getting looked at right now. I think I'd have to change up the deck a bit more to make Iteration a viable slot in, but I'm not opposed to the idea. Have seen Dovehawk put in work else where so I know what it can do I'll just have to see if I can slot it in some where.

My friend mentioned Felhide Spiritbinder to me and I could see it being good if I'm able to get it going since it can copy opposing creatures as well. However I dunno if I can justify a card that is pretty much worthless if I don't have access to my commander.

Agreed that Plume is pretty lackluster in the deck since we have Drum these days.
We have a couple ways to generate creature tokens on other people's turns but just that: a couple. The biggest synergy we have in the deck with them is mostly treasure generation which isn't terrible.
I already know the plan of untapping like this is gonna be worth it, just have to edit the deck to function with it better so bear with me :p

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Post by darrenhabib » 1 week ago

thatbrawlguy wrote:
1 week ago
Actually, and I know this sounds crazy, but yes. Drumbellower is better in THIS VERSION of the deck since we don't have all that much to do with instants right now. Bellower is a lil' bit less powerful but being only 3 mana and still getting to untap our creatures actually does push it out over Muse. It's also tutorable by both Recruiters where as Muse can only be hit by one of them.
Then you better cut Seedborn Muse

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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

Edits:

Wild Cantor > Rhys the Redeemed
Cantor is cute, but not better than any thing that actually makes a treasure and Outcaster Trailblazer is actually leagues better for this type of thing.

Faldorn, Dread Wolf Herald > Tireless Tracker
Both cards have their advantages and disadvantages, but Tracker can pile the advantages up over turns and get value immediately in a lot of cases.

Samwise Gamgee > Red Sun's Twilight
Sam hasn't been impressive. Wanna see if Twilight's dream is just a meme or serious. Blowing up my own Nexus of Becoming then making a bunch of tokens of it sounds like fun! With Mondrak out you can basically use Red Sun's as a ritual destroying a bunch of treasure/mana rocks. There's also the possibility of having made artifact tokens of creatures from Molten Duplication and Nexus of Becoming and getting additional copies of them.

Ertha Jo, Frontier Mentor > Mondrak, Glory Dominus
Jo has the advantage of being tutorable, but that's the only strict advantage over Mondrak. Mondrak basically does every thing in this version of the deck that Jo does, but even more. Plus Mondrak can become indestructible and serves as a sac outlet if that's ever required.

Seedborn Muse > Rionya, Fire Dancer
Drumbellower just better than Muse in this version of the deck and we need more token makers of things in play. Rionya also has the utility of some times making tokens of more than one thing so in she goes for testing!

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Post by thatbrawlguy » 1 week ago

More edits:

Bramble Sovereign > Flameshadow Conjuring
Conjuring is easier to use multiple times in a turn and less likely to be removed. Bramble can be used to make more tokens but is less efficient.

Drumbellower > Plargg, Dean of Chaos // Augusta, Dean of Order
Controversial since I've been going on how good Bellower is, but let's be real. Without Kiki the card isn't that great. Augusta on the other hand does what Bellower does but on our turn which is were majority of the deck functions. In addition she serves as an anthem so that's not to be looked over. Also Plarg has added utility in that he could be played if we're down bad for gas.

Urza's Saga > Exotic Orchard
Not enough low mv artifacts.

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