Ephara, God of the Polis - Flash & Taxes

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I tried a game subbing in trinket mage/heliod/walking ballista/cavalier of dawn for palinchron/remorseful cleric/deputy of detention and nadir kraken, and Ballista/Heliod combo was pretty darned solid.

It basically turns Enlightened Tutor into a wincon pretty easily.

I probably need to do some thinking about the optimal Intuition packages with that build, but it felt like it came together.

I closed that game by intuition for Sun Titan Heliod, Sun-Crowned and Recruiter of the Guard, they gave me heliod, I emeria'd recruiter and won. Though I also recast Snapcaster Mage like 4 times and could have easily won another way had I thought it through a bit more.

I think that there's a 3-card line of spellseeker/reveillark/sun titan that can chain into spellseeker+ephemerate+e-tutor+muddle where I can transmute for Snapcaster Mage to hit the second e-tutor, and that's probably the go to move. Although recruiter for soulherder into spellseeker / trinket mage also closes it out pretty fast.

One problem with most of those lines is it requires a draw so it's kind of telegraphed.

Anyway it was pretty fun, I think I might explore that line a little more.

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Post by schai » 1 year ago

Another card to consider is Ranger-Captain of Eos. Tutors Ballista and offers protection during the combo turn. Recurrable with Sun Titan to prevent other people comboing/wrathing on a critical turn. We don't have much of a 1 mana creature package unfortunately. One thing I do dislike is that if Ballista is countered, there is currently 0 ways to get it back from the grave, unless I'm missing something.

Sevinne's Reclamation is guaranteed way to get the combo off Intuition. Pretty decent card on its own but unfortunately still a boat-load of mana to pull off.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

schai wrote:
1 year ago
Another card to consider is Ranger-Captain of Eos. Tutors Ballista and offers protection during the combo turn. Recurrable with Sun Titan to prevent other people comboing/wrathing on a critical turn. We don't have much of a 1 mana creature package unfortunately. One thing I do dislike is that if Ballista is countered, there is currently 0 ways to get it back from the grave, unless I'm missing something.

Sevinne's Reclamation is guaranteed way to get the combo off Intuition. Pretty decent card on its own but unfortunately still a boat-load of mana to pull off.
re: Sevinne's reclamation - it's pretty expensive online is why I don't have one lol :) I have one in paper but there isn't a foil which usually slows my adoption of a card, but it is very very strong. I can think of a lot of functional lines there like going for recruiter, or getting image to copy recruiter or what not. Obv. can't get ballista since it can't be reclamation'd but you could get spellseeker for e-tutor and so on.

I'm torn though as it's an exceptional card. I wish it wasn't so dang slow. I think it's potentially good enough for the deck, but it has a lot of things not going for it (sorcery, not spellseekerable, etc.). It is really good in intuition packages though.


----------------------------------------

So I've been doing some real noodling on it and so far the combo setup I have enjoyed the most was altars and reveillark/karmic guide. Something about the way it played was just like...smooth. It worked with all the pieces really well. Sac outlets just bring something to the table from a defensive perspective too.

I did add Cavalier of Dawn to the setup for that, since in a pinch I could wrath it.

I'm very interested in what you guys think the best combo finish is. Here are the various things I have tried:

* Archangel of Thune / Soul Warden / Reveillark / Lightning Greaves / Phantasmal Image (LOL).
* Timestream Navigator - really requires Lightning Greaves which is awkward
* Reveillark + Altar of Dementia / Blasting Station
* Palinchron + other nonsense
* Heliod, Sun-Crowned + Walking Ballista

I have never tried Time Warp but it might be good - since they're reasonably good effects and I could play 2 pretty easy.

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Post by schai » 1 year ago

Ah, I don't usually play online (which unfortunately means I haven't jammed many games recently :( ), so I wasn't aware. It's absolutely fantastic in Zirda

My personal philosophy with this deck is a slow control deck that lays low until my CA engine is online and solidly protected by my spell-recurring engine. I figured I could never truly race the faster combo-decks, so I can only hope to stop them with counterspells. As a result, I prefer to run slot-efficient combos. Time Warp is a single slot (you could run 2 or even 3 if you wanted, but I haven't felt the need) that isn't a dead card on its own. I encourage you to try it out to give you another option. (I'm also curious it fares in the online meta, since I'm pretty constrained to my local group.)

My favorites in that list are probably Altar and Time Warp. Palinchron/Peregrine Drake are fine but can't be tutored for so are pretty unreliable. Heliod/Ballista is strong but doesn't have much synergy with the deck.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

You guys may enjoy my current build which just goes full on beats and tries to close out with recurring sweepers until it can set up a lock. So far it's been pretty good.
Decklist

Enchantment (1)


Approximate Total Cost:

The new stuff I am trying in there:

* Long Road Home as a second spellseekerable blink that lets me preserve it (and other dudes) from sweepers. Seems potentially a nice option.

* God-Eternal Oketra as a major wincon; possible that Monastery Mentor should also be in there.

* Generally higher flash quotient with mindcensor, niambi, squire and stunt double.

So far it seems to win basically how the other builds do, though it takes a turn or two longer.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to comment on one card that I keep seeing as a recurring theme, and that is Drannith Magistrate. This card wins games. I shut an entire table out of their commanders by sweeper->magistrate and it won the game in short order the last two games I've played - sweep it up, drop magistrate, draw 2-5 cards per turn while everyone else draws 1 and are empty handed post-sweeper.

It's been absolutely devastating to the point I feel like I'm a hatebears deck again sometimes :P

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
* God-Eternal Oketra as a major wincon; possible that Monastery Mentor should also be in there.
This reminds me that I had given serious thought to this card a while back and then never revisited it. I don't really like doing much with token creators but 4/4s are pretty damn good. I might have to try to find room for it.
I wanted to comment on one card that I keep seeing as a recurring theme, and that is Drannith Magistrate. This card wins games. I shut an entire table out of their commanders by sweeper->magistrate and it won the game in short order the last two games I've played - sweep it up, drop magistrate, draw 2-5 cards per turn while everyone else draws 1 and are empty handed post-sweeper.

It's been absolutely devastating to the point I feel like I'm a hatebears deck again sometimes :P
With things like Golos running around, along with a few other "commander centric" decks, I might have to look into this a little more as well. I don't do much with the hatebear aspect but Magistrate does shut down a lot of strategies that have very little other options against it.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 year ago
With things like Golos running around, along with a few other "commander centric" decks, I might have to look into this a little more as well. I don't do much with the hatebear aspect but Magistrate does shut down a lot of strategies that have very little other options against it.
It's pretty good for sure. I still prefer to steal most problem commanders since drake is a bit more engine-abusable, but it's very solid for that purpose.

Magistrate is actually really nice since it is good against a resolved golos while still letting us clone it for ramp which is fun.

In your build of Ephara I think that adding Sower of Temptation would probably a better choice most likely given the style of the deck (assuming I remember correctly that you have Drake already).

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

I do. And I forgot about Sower so that might be worth trying out. I think having another effect like that can be decent, and this one can be Tutored out by Recruiter which is nice.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

greediest keep ephara.jpg
I kept this the other day and short story I won dominantly - buncha people scooped early but there was no way I was losing that game since no one knew to kill my wayfarer. I rode him to nonstop hits.

Knight of the White Orchid was *real good* in this game, turning on Emeria, the Sky Ruin almost on its own by ramping +2 plains. Because one of my opponents ramped kinda hard I could have gotten 3 if I had wanted to sequence it that way, but I was keeping Selfless Squire up to play it safe against overrun effects instead. I *love* that card by the bye.

I miss Land Tax sometimes for enabling keeps like this, might swap it back in for Hawk at some point which has mostly been worse given how short games seem to be online.

If you want a simple maxim for this deck, as it is:

Always get Spellseeker with the first Recruiter of the Guard activation.

It's almost always right to spellseeker for Ephemerate, it just does so much of what I want to do. I rarely go for soulherder anymore since seeker can get Enlightened Tutor for Thassa, Deep-Dwelling which is more resilient anyway.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Won a pretty monstrous slogfest against circu and kinnan in a 3 player game, 4th player skipped hist urn on accident and scooped t1 :P

It was a game pretty much defined by Linvala, Keeper of Silence shutting down Kinnan and the other two of us playing around Rhystic Study [/card] the entire game. boy do i hate that card. while Ephara drew cards. Circu realized I was the problem and tried to discard me out of counterspells, and almost got me - surely would have had not Glen Elendra Archmage suddenly shown up with Thassa, Deep-Dwelling to seal the game.

I had a pretty cool sequence here where Circu had *two exile spells* targeted at ephara, which I do not think was correct - but I tried to fight it anyway by:
* Stunt double targeting ephara (I could also have whitemane lion'd but my only way to turn Ephara off was to bounce Linvala which was death :P)
* He then cast the second spell and I bounced stunt double with Whitemane Lion and then Stunt Double again killing the Kinnan player's Basalt Monolith with my Reclamation.

Some things to note about Circu is that you cannot see a list of stuff exiled with her very easily so it's very difficult to keep track :P So best to make notes as it happens if you can.

My opening hand this game was pretty awkward but decent.
The hand was an island away from turn 2 Ephara off e-tutor for crypt, but I am pretty glad I slowplayed. I wound up getting duals with Tithe and then slowplaying activating landscape, and casting Ephara on turn 5 while paying for rhystic study, then turn 6 slamming Linvala with Mana Drain backup, though he tapped out of blue so I chose to pay the rhystic on Linvala.

I made a few misplays here like rushing a scalding tarn and not remembering I could get Mystic Sanctuary but I did have a SWeeeeeet revenge play --

Circu had Covetous Urge'd my Cyclonic Rift and when he went to overload it I venser'd it to my hand, then used it to stop Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy from comboing by bouncing his monolith when he couldn't pay to untap it without using up his blue mana.

Something I am noticing with the comboless version of the deck is that I have to think a lot differently about things, since I really need to close out the game - so I am chipshotting people a lot more and trying to pressure life totals.

Some random notes on cards:

* Charming Prince is siiiick. I used him to blink my control magic'd Linvala, Keeper of Silence at one point. I also blinked my linvala at my end step with Thassa by blinking charming prince, and generated two Ephara triggers.

* Myriad Landscape creates some awkward sequencing but it does a lot of work. I had nearly as many lands as both my opponents combined having hit every single land drop.

* Glen Elendra Archmage + Thassa, Deep-Dwelling is *murderous* against blue decks. Especially online where people load up on soft counters that only hit non-creatures. I can usually dictate the pace of the game *while drawing a ton of cards* with just countering everything and persisting glen elendra. I think this is one of the best single card combos with Thassa in the entire deck.

* Monastery Mentor is calling my name :) MIght wanna pop Capsize or Spell Burst in though to help make it inevitable.

* Smothering Tithe has been quite a bit worse without wanting to save up mana for a combo turn. And it gets removed constantly since it's my only real desirable target. I am thinking of cutting it for another mana guy like Kor Cartographer since spamming plains has been really good lately. It is a great card no question but people literally always seem to have removal for it because it's the only threatening thing I play of those types.

I am really enjoying the deck as it is. It's very fun and engaging to play and requires you to really think hard when you wanna win without comboing with azorius beats :)
Last edited by pokken 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
It was a game pretty much defined by Linvala, Keeper of Silence shutting down Kinnan and the other two of us playing around Rhystic Cave the entire game. boy do i hate that card.
Rhystic Cave doesn't seem worth playing around :P I assume you meant Rhystic Study?
I had a pretty cool sequence here where Circu had *two exile spells* targeted at ephara, which I do not think was correct - but I tried to fight it anyway by:
* Stunt double targeting ephara (I could also have whitemane lion'd but my only way to turn Ephara off was to bounce Linvala which was death :P)
* He then cast the second spell and I bounced stunt double with Whitemane Lion and then Stunt Double again killing the Kinnan player's Basalt Monolith with my Reclamation.
Is there something missing in this sequence? The way you wrote it makes it seem like you made Stunt Double a copy of Ephara (presumably putting the original in the Command Zone) and then bounced Stunt Double after the second exile spell was cast. But that doesn't make a whole lot of sense since they should have just cast the second exile spell in response to Stunt Double and Ephara seems like she is gone either way. Unless you copied something else with Stunt Double?
Circu had Covetous Urge'd my Cyclonic Rift and when he went to overload it I venser'd it to my hand, then used it to stop Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy from comboing by bouncing his monolith when he couldn't pay to untap it without using up his blue mana.
I love plays like this. They are just so fun to see the opponent try to do something, especially with our own cards, only to have it turned around on them :)
Something I am noticing with the comboless version of the deck is that I have to think a lot differently about things, since I really need to close out the game - so I am chipshotting people a lot more and trying to pressure life totals.
I notice that too, though I don't do as much with the "chipshotting" as I should. But it does increase the stuff you need to really think about since there is no combo to end the game. Which I really like and it sounds like you are at least enjoying.
Some random notes on cards:

* Charming Prince is siiiick. I used him to blink my control magic'd Linvala, Keeper of Silence at one point. I also blinked my linvala at my end step with Thassa by blinking charming prince, and generated two Ephara triggers.
I really like that line and hope I can get to do that sometime too. Getting both triggers just by flickering Prince with Thassa (assuming the card you flicker with Prince isn't needed for a turn) can be a huge deal.
* Glen Elendra Archmage + Thassa, Deep-Dwelling is *murderous* against blue decks. Especially online where people load up on soft counters that only hit non-creatures. I can usually dictate the pace of the game *while drawing a ton of cards* with just countering everything and persisting glen elendra. I think this is one of the best single card combos with Thassa in the entire deck.
I have seen you mention this card a lot and I am starting to think there is a good reason to try to include it. I loved it in my Thassa, God of the Sea deck and shied away from it here due to the lack of Flash. But maybe I should give it a chance here too. I hope it isn't too expensive online :)
* Smothering Tithe has been quite a bit worse without wanting to save up mana for a combo turn. And it gets removed constantly since it's my only real desirable target. I am thinking of cutting it for another mana guy like Kor Cartographer since spamming plains has been really good lately. It is a great card no question but people literally always seem to have removal for it because it's the only threatening thing I play of those types.
Maybe this is where most of our differing of opinion has been on this card? I know you have mentioned it being a good card in the past and I never really liked it but perhaps it is because this build has no real "explosive turn". Or, it is not designed for one anyway. @RowanKeltizar has convinced me to try it in my Gisela deck (I am not totally sold on it, but I am willing to see what it does) but because this is a slower, controlling deck, especially now without the combos, it becomes less useful overall.

I used to like Kor Cartographer and cut it for being sort of slow but maybe it is again something worth looking into. I would be interested to hear your experiences with it.
I am really enjoying the deck as it is. It's very fun and engaging to play and requires you to really think hard when you wanna win without comboing with azorius beats :)
I am glad you finally left the dark side :P

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Their other removal was sorcery speed so couldn't interact with stunt double. And yeah rhystic study. Been having some weird behavior with the auto complete card tags lol

Yes, without he combo I rarely seem to need 18 Mana in a turn or whatever. Every now and then smtithe still allows me to go off with multiple spells in a cycle but it's a bit less impactful. Now that solemn foils are probably cheaper maybe I'll try it heh. I wish we had a wood elves for plains :P. (Sakura tribe elder for plains would be even sweeter for this deck oh man)

What I'm finding overall is that winds of abandon and rift are usually enough to win any game if I cast them twice and it's really easy to set that up. I can also set up soft locks with thassa and soulherder that I only dreamed of before those two. The increase in value let's me just win games by on our valuing control decks and outsweeping aggro decks.

It's kind of a confluence of having a second brutal one sided sweeper and the repeated blink engines that makes the non combo plan feasible. Man winds of abandon is really good. It stone cold wins games rift would not by often costing 5 Mana and denying recursion and value from recasting stuff

When I can turn an island fetch plus winds into a win I don't need to combo out.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
Eventually, you will slot Knight of the White Orchid over Hawk, and once that happens you will not be able to understand how you tried to stick with it for so long.
pokken wrote:
1 year ago
Knight of the White Orchid was *real good* in this game
I'm sorry, but you deserve this. Technically you have both slotted, but I think my point still stands.


How is Niambi in your list? I was thinking of her in a more hatebear-centered list with less shenanigans, but it looks like you have absolutely maxed out on blink and bounce. I'd have thought she'd be redundant.
If you're looking for more mana to use for such effects, I'm happy to remind you of As Foretold! Back on MTGS we had a big debate on mana effects, and the conclusion was that Tithe gets obscene in higher power level metas, but As Foretold's consistent threat is unstoppable if you let it live. There are also Victory Chimes and such cards if you want.
Oketra seems positively wicked in a list filled with Whitemanes since they just generate obscene amounts of 4/4s. However, I'm quite torn on those, running at low amounts if at all. Instead, my beats plan is fueled mostly by Norn, by Cavalier of Dawn, and by Angel of Jubilation. My crush on that card is unhealthy, but it just does so many things. And I really miss Nielsen.

So now that I've acquired Drannith Magistrate I've decided to go strong on Knowledge Pool. There are many cards that allow us to abuse it: Magistrate, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, and Eidolon of Rhetoric if we're feeling confident. However, there are several problems.
1. 6 mana is a lot to ask for in our deck, especially if we already have Magistrate on the board. I often have the combo in hand, stick one of the bears out for a while, and before I can save up the mana someone wipes the board.
2. The lock is only good if we're ahead on board, which can be a real hassle to achieve. Even with 4 or 5 wipes in my own list that favor me, this is EDH - so not a round goes by that something big isn't going on, and after that happens it's no longer beneficial to try to land the Pool because we'll be targeted.
3. Even if we do manage to get ahead on board and land the lock, I'd like a way to actually win the game - which is where the beatdown game plan comes into play.

But it can be a real hassle trying to figure out the correct amount of support for each strategy, as well as figuring out ways to actually stay alive long enough for them to be realized. I must have revamped and rethought the deck like 5 times since I decided on the Pool lock, and it's gotten me nowhere.
To be honest @pokken , I'm surprised that you manage to win with your current list via beatdown - your creatures don't feel like they could take out players. How does it work out for you?

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
I'm sorry, but you deserve this. Technically you have both slotted, but I think my point still stands.

How is Niambi in your list? I was thinking of her in a more hatebear-centered list with less shenanigans, but it looks like you have absolutely maxed out on blink and bounce. I'd have thought she'd be redundant.
If you're looking for more mana to use for such effects, I'm happy to remind you of As Foretold! Back on MTGS we had a big debate on mana effects, and the conclusion was that Tithe gets obscene in higher power level metas, but As Foretold's consistent threat is unstoppable if you let it live. There are also Victory Chimes and such cards if you want.
Oketra seems positively wicked in a list filled with Whitemanes since they just generate obscene amounts of 4/4s. However, I'm quite torn on those, running at low amounts if at all. Instead, my beats plan is fueled mostly by Norn, by Cavalier of Dawn, and by Angel of Jubilation. My crush on that card is unhealthy, but it just does so many things. And I really miss Nielsen.

So now that I've acquired Drannith Magistrate I've decided to go strong on Knowledge Pool. There are many cards that allow us to abuse it: Magistrate, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, and Eidolon of Rhetoric if we're feeling confident. However, there are several problems.
1. 6 mana is a lot to ask for in our deck, especially if we already have Magistrate on the board. I often have the combo in hand, stick one of the bears out for a while, and before I can save up the mana someone wipes the board.
2. The lock is only good if we're ahead on board, which can be a real hassle to achieve. Even with 4 or 5 wipes in my own list that favor me, this is EDH - so not a round goes by that something big isn't going on, and after that happens it's no longer beneficial to try to land the Pool because we'll be targeted.
3. Even if we do manage to get ahead on board and land the lock, I'd like a way to actually win the game - which is where the beatdown game plan comes into play.

But it can be a real hassle trying to figure out the correct amount of support for each strategy, as well as figuring out ways to actually stay alive long enough for them to be realized. I must have revamped and rethought the deck like 5 times since I decided on the Pool lock, and it's gotten me nowhere.
To be honest @pokken , I'm surprised that you manage to win with your current list via beatdown - your creatures don't feel like they could take out players. How does it work out for you?
Yeah I do have both but hawk is definitely the worse one :P Knight putting it into play untapped is huge and gets better with the blink package.

Niambi, Esteemed Speaker was good the one time I saw it, saved my Faerie Artisans from removal and gained 4. I did not ever have any legends to discard to it ofc. It's basically just bad whitemane lion, but I like having access to it. Definitely enables a lot of shenanigans.

I might give As Foretold a try again in this longer game list. But so far I am really thrilled with the added plains finding of hawk and knight. They do a lot to support the end game.

re: The lock setup
I think that you will be surprised how easy it is to win when your opponents can't cast spells. I just tutor for winds or rift and beat them down.

You should probably play Transmute Artifact and maybe Whir of Invention. Transmute in particular is great cos you can seeker it. I think I would play just eidolon, teferi and magistrate as the payoffs since they are all independently solid.

re: Beatdown
Usually thassa and ephara come online and that plus my doofs represents 20-30 damage a turn. If I've already chipshotted someone for 12 with Linvala over the course of the game (or whatever) I just kill them first. Usually that's the most threatening player.

I do have a few fatties and 3-4 power guys. But often I have help. Like an aristocrats player draining everyone or whatever, then I kill that person with commander damage and kill the other person from 15 from being drained.

Sun Titan happens a lot too weirdly, I've had multiples.

Oh and lastly, stealing/cloning. I had a game where I cloned a craterhoof 3x which was hilarious. I might consider Bribery if I keep playing the beats angle.

I will say that lifegain players are a challenge, Ephara is the only real out to them other than decking. :P And I always deck first haha.

I think I might want to try Mirror Entity since it gives a beats angle *and* a combo angle (entity + venser + reveillark + karmic guide → combo with all good critters).

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

bit of MTGO news I forgot:

MTGO now asks you when your commander changes zones, correctly, so that is *awesome*. Really huge deal for blinking commanders.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

ephara-tight-game-small.jpg
WOW! I just had the tightest game I think I can recall online where I managed to hold it together. Having a combo this game would have been pretty glorious. The game was against:
Derevi Stax
Breya midrange combo
Wrexial (looked to be semi-budget but control heavy)

We fought through:
TrinisphereArchon of Valor's ReachTangle WireHushbringer and I got my Agent of Treachery vendilion clique'd and still triggered it about 8 times.

This game was so close. I almost won it out of hand early with a Hour of Revelation that people waaaay overcommitted into. It was ultimately decided with a setup where everyone was fairly low, and I had stuck a Smothering Tithe.

The Wrexial player cast Torment of Hailfirefor x=7, which I was able to allow to resolve (despite having muddle and mana drain in hand), and then discard 3 lands and sac 4 treasure tokens to take nothing while everyone else was mind twisted and down to ~10 life (Except Wrexial).

I untapped with Emeria having somehow gotten online finally on turn 14 - and slammed the Agent of Treachery that I had previously discarded to Intuition, then topdecked like a champion and snagged Phantasmal Image for a second agent.

I then activated my stolen Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin, found Forbid to seal the game, and then killed the Search's owner with Ephara who was now online.

All kinds of crazy stuff happened this game. It was awesome.


You know who was not awesome?

Cartographer's Hawk! The only green player was a mana dork deck and Hawk did jack squat except being a vigilant 2/1 with Thassa :P

Blinking Agent of Treachery and recurring sweepers appears to be a pretty valid strategy against even very good decks; I was able to resolve Hour of Revelation *twice* through a judicious Mystic Sanctuary, and that largely decided the game. And I also resolved Winds of Abandonwhich was less good but did tag Edric and all the thopters and two Sharuums :P when I was at 15 life it felt necessary. Rift was much less good against Sharuum there.

Blinking Spellseeker is also great, although seeker was less savage this game because I lost my Ephemerate to an early Teferi, Time Raveler *GRRR* I do not like that card in multiplayer at all. The Derevi player cast it into Breya's turn when Breya had a Nim Deathmantle online and I was packing removal to stop the combo.

Cards like Trinisphere and Teferi, Time Raveler are so bad in high powered games; shutting off your allies' removal and countermagic is so absolutely terrifyingly dangerous.

Overall a really cool game where I played tightly against some tough opponents, and felt very good about taking home the W. I might try to video tape this. It only has a few grievous boners (like when I swung my Hawk into a Dread because I forgot about its text:P).

I do notice that against stronger decks it is harder to pull off the grindy victories, but if you can keep their card advantage engines offline it really helps.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

Someday you will realize that Hawk does not deserve to see play.
A card that I've strangely missed is Mother of Runes. I played online versus a mono U player that stockpiled Fog Bank effects, mostly giving me control over the stack but not giving me a way to finish the game with combat. I managed to animate Ephara, then play Mom and swing with my commander while giving her pro blue. My opponent resolved a large Eldrazi at some point, but I already had a million cards and the game in the bag. Mom is a powerhouse. This kind of makes me look at Archetype of Imagination or Thassa, God of the Sea.

Blinking Deputy of Detention and repeatedly getting rid of commanders is so powerful. Even without that function, it's a card that I never regret having. It gets rid of any threat on the board, including token swarms (surprisingly relevant), is great with Riptide Laboratory in case someone tries to get rid of it, and if you have Containment Priest it can be guaranteed removal.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Hawk I am pretty sure is confirmed a dud. I really wanted it to work but every time I play it there is some reason it doesn't work, pretty much. It's one of those cards that are super dependent on what other people are doing. Problem for sure.

I'm hoping for a preordain foil reprint soon. I have won two games recently off brainstorming into an answer and ponder has likewise been exceptional. Feels like something worth trying.

Mom is great for sure. I missed her too. The ranger package in general was real good. I could see tryin that again at some point but I do appreciate now how high my card quality is.

Killing commanders is definitely the best thing deputy has done for me. I do like that it procs off both familiars too as I've cast it for uw a lot. It's a solid card that'd be a 9/10 if it were recruiterable.

But ok the flip side that 1/3 body prevents a ton of chips. I held off an eternal witness and rec sage for several turns the other day with magistrate lol

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Making some paper changes since I'm going to get to play saturday it sounds like:

2020-07-15 - Paper changes!

cut Add

I have a feeling there's going to be a bit of a reckoning soon as there're a ton of cards I want to try and I've been enjoying in the MTGO list with the slow blink stuff a bit, but just want to get the deck moderately ready for playing with people again. It still has the palinchron combo but no idea how long that'll last :)

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

I know we talked about Hawk being bad, but I still don't like Cartographer. 4 mana is too much for something that's only good if blinked. I feel like Knight is 100% better - even though it's conditional it's cheaper, which means a lot, and the body is better in combat which can be very relevant.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

So given how hard you have been ragging on poor Rampant Hawk, would this ragging conceptually transfer over to Daxos? It's a turn two play, and then Daxos can come out on three after this does its ramping and goes back to hand. Or this can come back out again, whatever the situation calls for. My deck's a lot less blinky than your thing over here, and games go quite long (double digit turns are not uncommon at all). Rampant Hawk has been working okay for me, with its not faked two-drop nature being a nice upside for early sequencing, but the fact this thread's been ripping into it quite hard has me concerned :P
 
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
I know we talked about Hawk being bad, but I still don't like Cartographer. 4 mana is too much for something that's only good if blinked. I feel like Knight is 100% better - even though it's conditional it's cheaper, which means a lot, and the body is better in combat which can be very relevant.
With all the blink additions I think it's possible that cartographer is a way to end the game by generating an overwhelming mana advantage when there's not a clear alternative path to victory; scenarios where you blink cartographer 4 or 5 times in a turn cycle are not out of the realm of possibility. So that's my thinking. It might be wrong.

I am running Knight too, and several games it ran rampant catching me up to the land leader and putting the game out of reach for anyone else.

It's just for testing; it might be wrong. It was pretty good in Feather though.
Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
So given how hard you have been ragging on poor Rampant Hawk, would this ragging conceptually transfer over to Daxos? It's a turn two play, and then Daxos can come out on three after this does its ramping and goes back to hand. Or this can come back out again, whatever the situation calls for. My deck's a lot less blinky than your thing over here, and games go quite long (double digit turns are not uncommon at all). Rampant Hawk has been working okay for me, with its not faked two-drop nature being a nice upside for early sequencing, but the fact this thread's been ripping into it quite hard has me concerned :P
I have just had really bad luck with hawk. The one time it was going to be really good someone straight up killed it with a removal spell :P I was quite mad. Every other time there's just some situation that makes it not great. I play really long games too so I thought it would be amazing. Just never works out.

Honestly I'm kinda holding out for the Zendikar spell-lands as a real ramp option for us. The rumors are pretty spicy, spells that resolve as lands.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

There's a thing going around that's fake as hell. You talking about this one?
yeah right
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A 1U Force Spike that resolves into a tapped blue land. Excuse me? You're telling me that blue gets to essentially have a freaking instant speed Rampant Growth now, with the occasional spike value tacked on? Yep. Totally buying that.
That said, ZEN3 is pretty much confirmed to have some form of land/spell duality going on. That could be interesting. I feel the various XLN/RIX flips were very much targeted at EDH, but don't seem to have caught on to extent I expected them to.
 
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
There's a thing going around that's fake as hell. You talking about this one?
yeah right
Show
A 1U Force Spike that resolves into a tapped blue land. Excuse me? You're telling me that blue gets to essentially have a freaking instant speed Rampant Growth now, with the occasional spike value tacked on? Yep. Totally buying that.
That said, ZEN3 is pretty much confirmed to have some form of land/spell duality going on. That could be interesting. I feel the various XLN/RIX flips were very much targeted at EDH, but don't seem to have caught on to extent I expected them to.
Yeah that is the spicy one. My thinking it is it would not take very much for a spell to be playable for us; ramp is at such a premium. I also would not be *That* surprised if they printed that. They are terrible with the balance lately. I think it's unlikely but I would not be blown away if they did.

The threshold for us is just so very low though. I'm pretty jazzed just by the concept.

Imagine if we got like Unsummon or Cloudshift with ramp attached, lol :)

The XLN/RIX flips are low key pretty popular in EDH. look at the foil price of Primal Amulet // Primal Wellspring if you want a shock, I got mine for a dollar. Dowsing Dagger // Lost Vale and Thaumatic Compass // Spires of Orazca both see a ton of play. I've played Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin too and it's really good.

I've considered Legion's Landing // Adanto, the First Fort in this deck too.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

So while that is really cool, I'm somewhat skeptical. Theros Beyond Death had all its innovation in the Escape mechanic. Granted it was really pushed, but they didn't break open an aspect of the game.
The real innovation is saved for the sets in new planes, I feel, while the return to familiar planes is meant to cash in on Memberberry points. Look at Eldraine and Ikoria versus Theros and Ravnica.
With that in mind Zendikar is the first standard set after a core set, and those are usually rather pushed as well.
I'll try and hazard a guess that Zendikar will function much the same as Ravnica: the first block being loved and cherished, the second block being pretty bad, and the third one being decent. Except Zendikar 3 has only one set versus Ravnica 3 that had 3, with the last one being pretty awesome.

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