Ephara, God of the Polis - Flash & Taxes

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Yeah, I think with the proliferation of hasted stuff thalia, heretic cathar might be worth considering. I think if I ran another sword or still had Jitte I would be more inclined since she can really run away with a game with Jitte for example with her big body and first strike.

It's nice to hear those kind of reports -- I certainly have those kinds of games now and then, Sneaking out wins after other people have done a lot of combat damage is something I do a lot. we can often slap those points over the top with a good collection of decent sized fliers and the sword, and winds of abandon.

Unfortunately for me those guys usually rightly assess me as the primary person likely to clean up their board states, so it's happening less these days ;)

I can't say enough about winds of abandon as that card is just unreal for me.

inferno titan effects and warstorm surge effects that allow people to repeatedly kill our creatures are a big problem for us. When I am playing against those kinds of decks It end to try to sandbag removal and counters for those things.

I've found windborn muse still to do some work against those decks since if they can't find a damage engine they usually can't afford to pay for it, but muse is really more of an anti-green card than an anti-red card.

My primary answer to the red damage effects is to go over the top of them with a combo or cloning/stealing them. But I'll say for sure I have struggled with dragon/big red decks both quite a lot.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

Ur-Dragon also had Dragon Tempest in play which I didn't mention, so the Muse was toast anyway. I would definitely have considered some shenanigans but I didn't encounter a single tutor, which was surreal.
I actually moved the SoFaF to Kykar, and to be honest I don't think it would have made too much of a difference. It really helps tapout plays, which I don't have too much of, and the protection wouldn't have mattered. I don't think I miss it that much, which is very strange since it's such a busted card. Instead I run Jitte, a fetchable busted card, and Dowsing Dagger, which combos with Cloud of Faeries.

With all the red damage going on, I thought that a lifegain build would probably slot in Rune-Tail, since it's a tutorable creature that flips into a pretty broken enchantment.

Another thought I just had is that if Displacer is so busted in this deck, it's possible that Deadeye Navigator is another card we want. It's most likely not true, since Deadeye can't blink enemies and we hate that, but it might still make the cut for some.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I did play Rune-tail for a while and it was super bad, but the game may have changed enough -- esp. in a lifegain build.

Yeah I have seriously considered deadeye. My issue with it mostly is that it's super expensive to get down and still not tutorable. To get it down with protection we're looking at 8 mana, but that is a feasible endgame card for sure.

I've got a lot of sour memories of Deadeye from when EDH was young, but again the game may have moved on to the point where it's acceptable from a power level perspective. I'm just not sure it's mana efficient enough. But it can certainly close the game with Venser or spell queller or similar.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I took the opportunity to update the basics in my deck. I somehow forgot to get the rob alexander signed dissension hallowed fountain in there, but snapped a shot of most of the real estate as I was updating the basics:


Image

I really like how those nyx basics fit with the vibe of the deck, and they're really easy to find when you're searching which is also very nice.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

I can't tell from the picture, but I assume they are foil? I admit they do look really nice. I was planning on updating all of my decks to Nyx basics except for, ironically, my Ephara deck. Not that I won't, but it is the one deck where I am not sure what I want to do since I have basics specifically picked out for her.

But, those do look pretty sweet. Not a fan of the signed cards, but the mana base overall looks really nice.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 year ago
I can't tell from the picture, but I assume they are foil? I admit they do look really nice. I was planning on updating all of my decks to Nyx basics except for, ironically, my Ephara deck. Not that I won't, but it is the one deck where I am not sure what I want to do since I have basics specifically picked out for her.

But, those do look pretty sweet. Not a fan of the signed cards, but the mana base overall looks really nice.
Yep, everything in there is foil except the Tundra (italian FBB). I really like Rob Alexander's art - kinda wish he'd done Tundra instead of Underground Sea, so when I had the opportunity to grab the two nice RA lands (flooded strand judge promo and dissension hallowed fountain) at rock bottom prices I couldn't pass it up.

I wish the foil Nyx lands photographed better, they are absolutely stunning in person. I only really foil stuff in Ephara, and I was really surprised to see new lands I wanted for her since I'd picked out a mix of onslaught foils for her quite a while ago, I didn't like the plains as much as the island though.


The old one--

plains: https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/onslaught/plains-333-c

Island: https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/onslaught/island-336-b

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Post by First sword of Bant » 1 year ago

Nyx lands are quite pretty and the foiling really adds a lot to their aesthetics.
I'm considering switching basics for my own Ephara too, but will probably keep the Azorious guild kit ones - the cityscape just fits the god of the polis very nicely imho.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Sorry for no reports for a whil enow; two weeks in a row I've been sucked into 2 hour long CEDH games, and had an hour long slogfest through a ridiculous stax game on top that made me only get 3 games in last night. I think I am just going to skip the CEDH for a while, it's gotten a bit stale.

I'm very excited to see Nadir Kraken in action, and wondered if anyone has gotten much play with it so far as well?

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Hey hey, I bought this deck on MTGO (switching capsize for 60 dollar brazen borrower:P) and won my first game (through no fault of my own; lots of hilarious trigger/clicking stuff like accidentally capsizing my own sol ring...with buyback).

Game was vs. Breya consultation/scepter (looked CEDH to me), Vaevictis medium power, and a Jodah deck that never got going for some reason. Game really hinged on me having enough interaction to stop Breya (rift with rain backup) from scepter'ing. I had stuck an intuition and landed the lark/guide/titan/recruiter horsecrap pile.

Breya scooped after the rift resolved breaking their scepter, then Jodah scooped. Vaevictis played it out but was not able to get there, as I got Emeria online, plus a board of:

Recruiter, Soulherder, Ephara, Reveillark, sun titan

They plague wind it, which lark brings back guide and and recruiter, guide brings back sun titan which brings back soulherder, then I emeria my dead windborn muse back. Recruiter trigger off the plague wind gets archaeomancer for muddle the mixture which seals the deal with the altar combo.

Nice to see that the deck can hold its own online, probably do quite a bit more of that since I can squeak a game in in an hour or so.

My screwups include (both misclicks and plays)
* why did I get whitemane lion with muddle when i had a hushbringer out (I should not have transmuted muddle here, just held it up for interaction; or gone for something else).
* breya goes to resolve scepter after resolving consultation for it, I unexpectedly absent the scepter before he imprints (woops)
* I capsize my own sol ring trying to tap it for mana to pay and have to re-capsize :P

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I don't seem to have the attention span to play on MTGO for more than a game or two but it is nice -- a lot of the fidgety stuff is mitigated by not having to shuffle, so I think I'll be able to do it. I got in two games today and they were pretty good; I made a pretty critical error in one game and let the Jarad guy steal it with a giant sewer nemesis, was kinda in between a rock and a hard place.

On the upside I learned how to hold priority so I can execute the guide/body double combo.

Second game I played I won via end step sac recruiter of the guard to altar with Emeria online, cast Teferi, untap, search for body double and kill with my dead guide for only 5 mana.

Generally speaking, my deck seems to be a pretty good fit for the online meta, though it does kinda drag games out which people complain about a little. I may have to get a more meatheaded deck too at some point.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I need to figure out a faster way to chop out dead space / get the MTGO replays to go faster, but thought you guys might appreciate this gameplay video. Probably the only seriously egregious mistake I made was when I tried to get a stop at the beginning of my draw step and apparently in MTGO you need to do upkeep for that (so I had to hold the Hour a turn). Fortunately the opponents didn't see it or missed the mystical tutor reveal I guess and continued to play into it.

This is a very long, probably 14 turn or so game that illustrates the inevitability of Emeria pretty well. The game was probably over right about the time I resolved the Hour.



I had another decent game that I was able to clip much shorter (woot) and figured out a better way to obscure stuff. Hopefully it works. This game was interesting; I definitely got a little lucky and the opposing golos deck could have easily won if they had dropped a stax piece or something -- I should have prioritized getting Eidolon out much earlier than I did, but I wanted to see what was in their deck a little :)

Enjoy my misclick that missed a turn 2 Ephara also. Be careful where you click:P


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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

I bet you're really excited about the Theros Secret Lair thing. Haven't seen the Ephara art yet but it's sure to be spectacular, judging by the little I've seen so far.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
I bet you're really excited about the Theros Secret Lair thing. Haven't seen the Ephara art yet but it's sure to be spectacular, judging by the little I've seen so far.
I did order it; I have a pretty special alt art ephara already but it's nice to have another option and potentially a cool one for a second Ephara deck.
image.png
It is a pretty sweet looking foil. I like the constellations more than most people seem to I guess, but the UW colors look great in that scheme.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Got a paper game in tonight, it was a pretty ridiculously long one in which I overloaded winds of abandon 3 times (due to getting Emeria online). It's interesting how often Emeria is my inevitability lately.

Interesting thing in this game, opponent pathed all my creatures with deadeye+ewit, and passed turn, and I was able to emeria in archaeomancer for winds, overload winds and win a fight over it with venser + forbid, spellseeker for mana drain, and finally close the game out with combat damage (brazen borrower+ephara cranking out the old 9 damage/turn).

I didn't see much of the usual crowd because the board state with eidolon of rhetoric prevented me from doing Soulherder shenanigans, while it completely stifled everyone else's development. There were multiple overloaded cyclonic rifts :P It was that kinda game.

I'm still thrilled with this iteration of the deck, but I'm finding I think I'd like another counterspell and I'm unsure what to play; giving some thought to either force of will or memory lapse. it'd be nice if we got a mystic snake esque creature in UW, or even just a functional extra copy of Venser would be nice. Maybe I'll consider silumgar sorcerer again.

I did see nadir kraken finally but it really didn't do anything - just made a kraken then got hallowed burial'd.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

First, the Secret Lair Gods: I picked up two bundles and I am super excited to replace Ephara with the Constellation version of her. It looks fantastic :)

Second, your latest summary: Is your concern over having another counterspell to help with counter wars? Or, as the Sorcerer mention suggests, you just need more ways to deal with creatures coming down. In honesty, Sorcerer only countering Creature spells is a huge drawback. I would probably lean on Dovin's Veto over any of those options, but if you need a more general answer, Force of Will (or even Force of Negation) are solid since we tend to have enough cards in hand to pitch to them.

I do agree that a UW Mystic Snake or Frilled Mystic would be awesome for this deck. I like Venser for his versatility so another one isn't bad but I think I would want a hard counter in there before a duplicate of him.

As for the Kraken, I don't think I have seen it in a game yet (or I saw it once). Since yours was simply removed pretty quickly, I am curious if you think you were in a spot where a) it would have "gone off" or b) it would have turned anything around. If it didn't get removed that is. You likely had enough mana for it, so maybe that isn't really a concern.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I think you're right that sorc would be iffy. So my issue is mostly I find myself wanting a second hardish counter in the endgame and only having one. Needing to defend forbid, etc. Veto is a good thought since it's both good for stopping game winners and defending my own.

I have really felt the sting of not.having any free counters which has me thinking force or misdirection or something as well.

Last night the play that made me think force was when it was down to 1v1 and opponent slammed deadeye but I had tapped out thinking with his hand and board it was safe. I needed to recover from a cyclonic rift so cast ephara and recruiter and soulherder and had to choose between defending soulherder with my forbid and holding off for his play.

I chose to defend soulherder thinking the venser I got would set me up to reset if needed then deadeye came down. Instead he infinite pathed which was rough. It did turn emeria online and I won but could easily have lost had he not ran out of countermagic to stop my winds.

Anyway that's a lot of talk but I think ultimately I am gonna try to acquire a force invocation and noodle on it. I could have easily just recruited for venser (instead of soulherdering to venser) and kept mana up there vs being greedy lol so it's maybe better to think about play patterns vs. Cards a lot.

Re kraken...

I was down to 1v1 at the point it came down which is why I did not consider defending it. In 1v1 I think it would have been slower than I wanted. It was a game i was going to trigger ephara off emeria every turn so kraken would only add one trigger and at that point I was going to close the game off forbid lock no matter what I think.

I'm iffy but I guess it probably would have shortened the clock but I don't know what he could have drawn to beat emeria at that point.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
I'm iffy but I guess it probably would have shortened the clock but I don't know what he could have drawn to beat emeria at that point.
I am not sure if I have really thought of it in this vein before, but I wonder how "win-more" it ends up being? As you said, it would likely have finished that game off quicker but that is 1v1 so all 4 players being in it probably wouldn't have done much to end the game. It *would* have kept your hand full (effectively being a Mind's Eye of sorts) if you had the mana so there is still likely some good uses out of it.

I am hoping to finally see it in one of my games as I am interested to see what it can do if left alone.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 year ago
pokken wrote:
1 year ago
I'm iffy but I guess it probably would have shortened the clock but I don't know what he could have drawn to beat emeria at that point.
I am not sure if I have really thought of it in this vein before, but I wonder how "win-more" it ends up being? As you said, it would likely have finished that game off quicker but that is 1v1 so all 4 players being in it probably wouldn't have done much to end the game. It *would* have kept your hand full (effectively being a Mind's Eye of sorts) if you had the mana so there is still likely some good uses out of it.

I am hoping to finally see it in one of my games as I am interested to see what it can do if left alone.
My read on it is that if you stick it early game it would run away with the game for sure. Kinda like whitemane lion does but with bodies. The slight issue is it is a bit more threatening so I think people are prone to remove it but we'll see.

Folks have started to try killing Soulherder on sight these days. But if you have enough engines like that that can run away with the game, they'll run out of removal maybe? :P I guess that's the theory.

I'm really looking forward to hitting it and seeing if maybe it's something I can defend and ride to victory in the early/mid game. In that game if all four players had been there it's possible I run away with it? Maybe I'm a couple cards ahead of where I was, not sure.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Man I just squeaked out one of the coolest games I have ever had with Ephara.

The critical turn, I had a phantasmal image copying muldrotha, the gravetide survive a turn cycle, and then I evoked reveillark to get karmic guide + phyrexian metamorph copying gravebreaker lamia, tutored for altar of dementia and then cast it from the yard with Muldrotha's ability.

Positive I will need to Vid that one :) Wow. I was at 10 life from Klothys group slug and some beatdowns from Muldrotha when that turn finally lined up.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
The critical turn, I had a phantasmal image copying muldrotha, the gravetide survive a turn cycle, and then I evoked reveillark to get karmic guide + phyrexian metamorph copying gravebreaker lamia, tutored for altar of dementia and then cast it from the yard with Muldrotha's ability.
There's nothing quite like beating them with their own deck, is there? Well done mate!
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Very long game online today referred to by the poor gruul player as "top 5 worst games I've played" with me vs. Michiko Konda small guys, Kynaios Field, and Ruric Thar. The irony of Ruric Thar being upset was not lost on me but I still felt bad about the game dragging so long. Part of it was that three of us had tons of answers.

I didn't play perfectly in this game but I did some pretty good stuff, and was able to win the game at 10 life despite being archenemy for half of it - the Kynaios player was in pole position for most of the game but after several rounds of sweepers I was able to lock him out with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite backed up by glen elendra archmage.

Highlight 1
Early on in the game after the first sweeper (hour) took out a huge army from gruul and Kynaios, I topdecked Kraken after missing a land drop, deployed it, and was able to draw 5 cards and make a pretty sizable kraken army that forced Michiko to wrath again (also hour). This got me back in the game and would have absolutely won on its own as I was a turn away from protecting it with countermagic.

Kraken was really good; basically Rhystic Study level draw (5 cards in 2 turn cycles) and forced a removal spell. It was probably the only card that was getting me back in there, as it also saved me probably 15 life from possible attackers that could not get through the huge kraken.

Highlight 2
The game pivoted when I I cast elesh norn and smothering tithe into a mostly clear board. Kynaios had an impersonator'd ephara, kynaios and field and 2 zombies, no one else had much else going on.

Michiko overwhelming splendors me, shutting off my norn, Kynaios beats me to (with the 2 3/3 zombies that had survived) 14 life, and Smothering Tithe makes me 8 treasure tokens off of the turn cycle. Ruric Thar kills the doubling season Kynaios plays (iirc).

I untap with 8 treasures and 10ish lands (one was nykthos, which made 6?), cast linvala, metamorph copying kynaios, capsize with buyback the splendor, play glen elendra archmage, and pass with 7 treasures up. Whitemane Lion, Teferi, reveillark and capsize in hand (approx). I draw Plains off my Kynaios, make a ton of treasures. I draw Altar of Dementia off ephara in there somewhere.

I glen elendra the dusk, Kynaios can't beat glen elendra but makes some zombiesI play my 7th plains for Emeria off his Kynaios. Gruul player windmill slams Possibility Storm -- to which I tank for a moment, looking at my hand. Then I in turn windmill slam my Teferi off treasures, everyone scoops but Michiko, I cast whitemane lion at end step, flipping karmic guide which I cast.

I untap and Michiko scoops, but woulda been dead to Altar / lark / guide combo even though the storm was gone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Few takeaways from this game, which was a really good showcase of the deck's staying power and potential inevitability:

1) Nadir Kraken looked good. It was definitely a huge baneslayer. I absolutely would have popped the table with Elesh Norn if they'd left it alone for another turn. Ceiling is very high.

2) Smothering Tithe continues to impress me. I have heard a lot of folks talk smack about it. I was one of them and I was super wrong. The overwhelming mana advantage is really, really good for closing games.

3) Group hug decks really don't seem to work well against this deck.

4) I think this deck might be a bit too grindy for most online people's attention spans. Makes me want to get a second deck but I'm gonna wait and maybe sell some cards to pay for it or something :P

5) Elesh norn, Grand Cenobite specifically was key to winning this game, and it's been a while since it's factored so highly. the inevitability of field of the dead is a bit of a weak point for this deck and it forces me to have to try to combo over the top mostly.

edit;
6) Kynaios player using field of the dead with his cloned ephara, god of the polis really made me wish we had the tools to make that work. Unfortunately I don't see how we can make it a real gameplan unfortunately, too many bad cards needed to support it (stuff like ruin ghost and retreat to coralhelm could be a strategy I guess but really hinges on it not dying.

Only having access to 2 crucible-esque effects (crucible and sun titan) really restrict how good it can be.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bonus Discussion!

I had another game today where I wound up facing down a control shell and had spellseeker+thassa to take it home for me - but I ran out of counterspells after mana drain and muddle, and had to get mystical tutor for forbid. And I was stuck then with if they draw another counterspell to back their sweepers up there's nothing I can do - basically all in stuck on Forbid, which is not that amazing against opposing control decks.

I did win, but only on the back of luck that they had exhausted their other counters.

I am fairly sure I want to work some other spellseekerable counterspell into this deck. Gonna have to keep thinking about that as right now I can't figure a cut.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

Field of the Dead isn't that good for us with multiple lands per turn... We'd much rather have a land come into play once each turn, which seems like an extremely niche strategy. Walking Atlas comes again to mind as probably one of the best options, but it's probably not very competitive.
Overwhelming Splendor is just such an unfun card. It pretty much says "screw this player in particular" for a ton of EDH decks, up to even Iona levels sometimes. With that being said congratulations on managing to deal with that card - it speaks strongly of the deck's ability to deal with pretty much anything if need be.

The two best counterspells in general are Mana drain, then counterspell. After that it depends on what you're looking for. Familliar's Ruse seems awesome until you remember it's not playable on an empty board, Swan Song is cheap but efficient, Tale's End is a Stifle that counters commanders... The list goes on.
It could also be better to just go back to basics and slot things like Negate, Disdainful Stroke, etc.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
Field of the Dead isn't that good for us with multiple lands per turn... We'd much rather have a land come into play once each turn, which seems like an extremely niche strategy. Walking Atlas comes again to mind as probably one of the best options, but it's probably not very competitive.
Overwhelming Splendor is just such an unfun card. It pretty much says "screw this player in particular" for a ton of EDH decks, up to even Iona levels sometimes. With that being said congratulations on managing to deal with that card - it speaks strongly of the deck's ability to deal with pretty much anything if need be.

The two best counterspells in general are Mana drain, then counterspell. After that it depends on what you're looking for. Familliar's Ruse seems awesome until you remember it's not playable on an empty board, Swan Song is cheap but efficient, Tale's End is a Stifle that counters commanders... The list goes on.
It could also be better to just go back to basics and slot things like Negate, Disdainful Stroke, etc.
Yeah It is a bummer that field won't really work. we could probably get it set up where it worked with crucible, but it's pretty challenging to do and pretty dependent on finding crucible.

Splendor is definitely savage. humility effects are particularly devastating for Ephara when she's online so thankfully she wasn't at least. It really does show off the flexibility in the slight increase in spells I've had over the years -- I was previously dependent on just two outs for that since venser, relic warder, etc. could not deal with it. now we got borrower (capsize online), rift, cleansing nova, etc., and we can find them via a lot of ways.

I feel like counterspells in this deck really need to be able to stop our nemesis Craterhoof. So I'm leaning toward arcane denial which has always been super good for me, or memory lapse - pretty turn on that but I like lapse a lot and the foil is very attractive. counterspell is always an option, as is cryptic command, but I really like the light blue pips where I can.

dovin's veto is one I am really thinking on because of the uncounterable clause. I get people with spell queller a lot being able to deal with the cheap counterspells.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

This game bugged out, but I think I had it won.
Turns out kraken is pretty good with nyxbloom ancient.

I also stuck a pretty funny combo of brainstorm/snap/brainstorm + kraken, which worked out pretty good.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

All the Ephara decks in this forum do is steal Nyxbloom Ancients it seems :cool:

Love the tentacle-storm pic!
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