Karador - Two sides of the coin

User avatar
Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

Hello All,

I have started playing MTGO again and so I have built a deck online. It is a little different then the paper version I have. I have debated on changing the online version to match the paper version as it will help me to "play test" so that when I finally get some time to go play in person I have refined the decklist. The main reason that I have not done this is that the meta online is likely to be very different than what I will face when I get to the lgs. I will post both lists and please let me know what you would change.

I do try to get Karador decks to have the maximum amount of creatures, so whenever a new set comes out I do try to find creatures to replace the non-creature components. If I have missed some please let me know. Also smaller etb creatures really help smooth out Karador and make it so that you can play him along with something from the graveyard on the turn he comes down, maximizing the chance to get value from his ability. As you can tell there is a lot of similarity between lists, but the MTGO list has more creatures and a tighter CMC curve. I think that the meta online is probably more cut-throat but that could be too general, and maybe just a faulty characterization.
Karador MTGO
Approximate Total Cost:

Karador Paper version
Approximate Total Cost:

So let me know what I missed? I used to play Karador a lot in paper, but since I moved I have not been able to get many reps with it. It used to have a discard theme and so there is a little bit there still. I do have a lot of pinpoint removal as I had to police the table as there were too few boardwipes played in my old meta. What creatures should I be looking for? If I can't get it right away I can work towards it. I do not have unlimited funds but if it is something I want I will work hard to get it.
Last edited by Inkeyes22 4 years ago, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 2003
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 132
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

First, please don't use card tags within deck tags as you don't need them. And add in a number at the beginning as without that is why your lists look wonky. Not sure about anyone else, but it makes it really tough to follow along with what is in your lists:
SPOILER
Show
Hide
Karador MTGO
Approximate Total Cost:

Karador Paper version
Approximate Total Cost:

As to your questions, you can look here for my Primer as well as here for Cryogen's thread. Our lists are quite a bit different but both could offer some ideas on where to take your list.

I will try to offer some thoughts on what I see within your first list (I can try to find time for your second list later, but I assume most things will apply to both anyway):

Lands
I think that even though you are running green to help your mana fixing, lands that produce colorless mana, or none at all, should be kept to a minimum. Specifically, Maze of Ith, Krosan Verge (I realize it is a fetch, but it is slow), Grim Backwoods, and Field of Ruin are the ones I see in your deck. Field isn't bad but I would get rid of Maze of Ith. Green has access to plenty of fog effects and Spike Weaver and Constant Mists are far better I think. I don't really like Backwoods due to the cost to activate it. Erebos is probably better if you really need the card draw. And there are plenty of other options as well.

Creatures
Solemn is too slow for this deck. Green has a plethora of ramp options at 2 and 3 mana and I don't think the card draw is worth it. Karametra is another, though your creature count is higher than mine. I think she can make it in based on your overall strategy. If you plan on just spamming creatures, she is probably fine, but I am not entirely convinced she is really needed.

Angel of Despair is rock solid, so I don't want to get too far away from it, but I never liked the 8 CMC. If you find yourself with enough mana to consistently cast it (which Karametra no doubt helps with) keep it in. But I might look to something to lower your curve if you find it sitting in your hand too long.

Ayli should almost definitely be Viscera Seer or Yawgmoth. Unless your intent with her is the life gain primarily. But, as a strict sac outlet, which I tend to look at, there are better options that don't cost mana.

Teysa seems out of place in this deck, but your experience with her may say otherwise. I could never find her to really do what I wanted her to do even in my Teysa Karlov deck and I think Karador is even further away from working well.

Spore Frog is good in a Meren deck (and I see you have Meren) but I would easily go with Spike Weaver over it since Weaver covers you the entire turn cycle rather than one turn.

Sepulchral Primordial is a high cost for an inconsistent reward. Chainer, Dementia Master is likely better here. Puppeteer Clique is kind of the same. Since both of these can only get opponents' stuff, and the Clique only gives it to you for a turn, I think there are better options.

Luminate Primordial is another on the higher side of things and I think cheap spot removal is just better. While I know it gets rid of your own stuff, False Prophet has been nothing short of amazing in my games.

Eldrazi Displacer seems decent..ish, but you only have 5 lands that produce colorless mana (and I also suggested cutting 2 of them so there is that) so I feel that it may come up often enough where you don't have the mana to activate it.

As a side note, you put Wrath of God in the creatures section :)

Noncreatures
I don't know why, but I don't really like Skullclamp here. You don't have a lot of things to clamp and even the tokens from Avenger will grow too large easily enough. I understand you have sac outlets to sac your creatures, but I would probably look at this as being something else. Erebos was mentioned, Momentous Fall is good.

I don't really have an opinion on the rest though your spot removal seems low (it seems like you could get blown out by a Torpor Orb or Humility pretty easily). You have a fair number of wraths so I might suggest cutting Decree of pain to add in more utility spot removal like Unexpectedly Absent, Beast Within, Generous Gift, etc.

I know this is more about what to cut but I figured I would start there.

Oh, and my favorite card in my deck is Diamond Valley. I realize it goes against the "don't run lands that don't produce mana" but it has been a life saver so many times in my games. With Crop Rotation and Ulvenwald Hydra to get it out, I can get it with some consistency.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6629
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I love me some karador but yeah I can't follow this cos the card tags/deck tags are so mucked up. :)

User avatar
Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

pokken wrote:
4 years ago
I love me some karador but yeah I can't follow this cos the card tags/deck tags are so mucked up. :)
fixed sorry, I knew it looked wierd but was unsure how to fix it. I have thought about taking out Decree of Pain but I find I need a board wipe pretty much every game and the extra card draw is nice. Maybe I will try out Shatter the Sky? Maybe I should try Fumigate? I think the extra 1 is probably worth it here.

User avatar
WizardMN
Posts: 2003
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 132
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Twin Cities
Contact:

Post by WizardMN » 4 years ago

I have thought about Shatter the Sky in my build over Damnation. I haven't pulled the trigger yet but I think Shatter the Sky is pretty good.

As for the "right" wrath, Toxic Deluge is probably the choice. It is arguably one of the best wraths in the format due to being 3 mana and dealing with Indestructible, Regenerate, Totem Armor, etc. that Shatter the Sky would have a problem with.

User avatar
pokken
Posts: 6629
Joined: 5 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: he / him

Post by pokken » 4 years ago

I found the decklist a lot easier to look at in standardized sorting:
Decklist

Artifacts (3)

Enchantment (4)

Approximate Total Cost:


Somewhat disorganized thoughts--


Generally speaking I think the best Karador wraths/wrath equivalents are going to be:
You're not going to reliably get decree of pain mana at the time in the game you are likely to need wraths, but it is fairly flexible. My experience with it has been that I need it too early for it to work mana wise or any wrath would win me the game late.

Generally your CMC chart looks a little bloated in the MTGO version (2.5 and at on of 6+ drops)

hour of revelation is strictly better than planar cleansing. Definitely swap this.

----------------------------------------

I think that Karador ramp should really be playing this package, but just my opinion:
The ability to play lands from your graveyard is really, really good in this deck and goes really well with the theme.

I would also probably add diligent farmhand as a backup Steve. Swordtooth can be Azusa instead but I like the body a lot myself.

------------------------------------------

From a removal perspective I think adding some of the standard Karador stuff probably is a good idea. And I really like Cavalier of Dawn.

From what I've seen caustic caterpillar is really important online. There's some artifact spammer in every pod and tons of enchantments.


-----------------------------------------

One liners

I really prefer Dictate of Erebos over grave pact. It's easier to cast and the surprise can be meaningful.

I like entomb effects in this deck; I would play both entomb and gravebreaker lamia I think.

Could use a couple more targeted removal spells that deal with stuff that hates on creatures --

User avatar
Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
4 years ago
I have thought about Shatter the Sky in my build over Damnation. I haven't pulled the trigger yet but I think Shatter the Sky is pretty good.

As for the "right" wrath, Toxic Deluge is probably the choice. It is arguably one of the best wraths in the format due to being 3 mana and dealing with Indestructible, Regenerate, Totem Armor, etc. that Shatter the Sky would have a problem with.
I thought about that, but the payment of life can sometimes be rough.

I did pick up the following to mess around with on MTGO:

Acidic Slime
Archon of Justice
Bane of Progress
Chainer, Dementia Master
Diamond Valley
False Prophet
Farhaven Elf
Fumigate
Knight of Autumn
Momentous Fall
Murmuring Bosk
Panharmonicon
Phyrexian Reclamation
Protean Hulk
Spike Weaver
Survival of the Fittest
Unexpectedly Absent
Victimize
Viridian Emissary
Viscera Seer
Volrath's Stronghold
Yavimaya Dryad
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
Zulaport Cutthroat

User avatar
Inkeyes22
Posts: 118
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Inkeyes22 » 4 years ago

Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Approximate Total Cost:

Is the updated MTGO list, I haven't messed with paper version as I have not had time to go to a shop in a while.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Decklists”