Grothama, All-Devouring - The Maw of Oblivion

[Kyra Warsong]

Hello all,

Just wanted to say that I read the original post a few years ago and was astounded by it (though I still haven't built the deck). It would then pop into my thoughts every few months.

I was looking through it again tonight and imagine my surprise to see it's been updated with recent cards, and reading past the first page I see these updates are still coming!

All of that is to say, thanks so much for making this post about such an interesting commander, and moreso thank you 1000 times more for keeping the list and discussion updated. It means a ton to me and was such a fun surprise. I hope to sometime soon finally build the deck myself and enjoy.

This is such a sweet compliment, thank you! I know I sound like a broken record, but this is always and forever my favorite deck; 4 years in and if I reach for a deck, it's Grothama. I really hope you get the chance to build her, any time I hear someone decided to try her because I wrote this, I feel so giddy.

[Kyra Warsong]

I'm having a though slowly bubbling up here. Recently I discovered that this deck is a little overtuned for the playgroup I just started spending time with. I'm thinking about assembling a power up/down board; I am too competitive to genuinely make the decision to cut Mana Crypt, but a sideboard where I can pull out Mana Crypt and replace it with something else sounds like more my speed.

I agree completely. My group introduced a no Sol Ring policy, and my primers are the only decks grandfathered in with fast rocks. I can't just take them out, these are write-ups illustrating how to build the commander dammit! That said, from experience, offering a "sideboard" in the primer ends up slipping out of your control with time too. I took various Rule of Law effects out of Daxos five years ago, replacing them with a swap list. Now I have zero feel for how the sideboarded deck would even play anymore. I guess it would be different in your case as you could make more active use of it, and also the stuff you'd put in would be the very top tier of mana rocks so obviously it would be good.

Also I adore Xantcha and would love to see your take on her. I tried building her twice, and the second take got pretty close to making it to paper, but I just couldn't figure out anything particularly cool to do in the final 1v1. There are only so many times you can recycle secret evasion tech to make Phage the Untouchable kill someone before it gets old.

Also also Power Fist is awesome and is going straight into my Saryth. It's great that green is getting some Necropolis Regent style effects between this and Conclave Sledge-Captain, plus there's also been the recent "double stats" exploration too. Good times to be playing Timmy fat!

I have since largely abandoned the idea of doing this; it's a ton of effort to swap a bunch of cards out every time I play, and frankly I don't think Grothama is actually overpowered. I win a lot but frequently it's after a slow start where I'm given some leeway to get my feet under me. Sure, sometimes I go Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Nature's Lore, T2 Freelance Muscle, T3 draw 14, but a lot of the time I'm doing that on T8 instead. I have resigned myself to not play Grothama every game; I picked up the Riders of Rohan precon, and I have Xantcha, Yargle and Multani, and Grenzo, Dungeon Warden (built off of @snowfox54119's primer, that's the list that inspired me to think differently about deck building and card selection; without that primer this one probably wouldn't exist). So I will often reach for another deck with a small sigh and whisper "next time."

Maybe I'll post my attempt at Xantcha sometime! I've not gotten my head around her yet, she's an odd one. Recently I was trying to leverage Auras to make her very threatening, but oddly people don't seem to like being handed a 7/7 with First Strike and Wither 😅

[Kyra Warsong]

Surrak and Goreclaw ... I acquired one of those last summer and it's still sitting next to the deck, looking for a cut. Not sure what to take out for it.

So the last list I saw from you (which was a year ago) you were still running Garruk, Primal Hunter; I would consider swapping him out for the big ol' human bear, assuming you're still running him. Otherwise, have you cut Runadi or Monster Manual yet? S&G are SO useful for enabling combat kills, they've started to become a go-to drop for me. Even if you're not Ghaltaing in 9 creatures, giving haste AND trample is extremely powerful. I had a whole table scoop when I played Psychosis Crawler with them on board. You know it takes a lot for me to run a 6 drop that can't kill Grothama by itself, so when I say "this card is nuts" you know I'm not blowing smoke.

[SquirrelToken]

Surrak and Goreclaw ... I acquired one of those last summer and it's still sitting next to the deck, looking for a cut. Not sure what to take out for it.

So the last list I saw from you (which was a year ago) you were still running Garruk, Primal Hunter; I would consider swapping him out for the big ol' human bear, assuming you're still running him. Otherwise, have you cut Runadi or Monster Manual yet? S&G are SO useful for enabling combat kills, they've started to become a go-to drop for me. Even if you're not Ghaltaing in 9 creatures, giving haste AND trample is extremely powerful. I had a whole table scoop when I played Psychosis Crawler with them on board. You know it takes a lot for me to run a 6 drop that can't kill Grothama by itself, so when I say "this card is nuts" you know I'm not blowing smoke.

Runadi had come out, but MM was still in so out it comes and in go the Titans of Tarkir. I really ought to update that list on page ... five? Whichever page it's on.

[Mclovin]

Heya been interested in grothama for a while but never had the attention span to brew up something myself cuz I knew it would take alot of tweaking and fine tuning. After reading your guide and explanations on the cards I'm wayyyyy more excited to try her out! For now ima copy your decklist since u seem to have it pretty fined tuned and I will make some personal changes as I try out the deck and adjust to my meta. Thank you for the really well written explanation!

[Kyra Warsong]

Heya been interested in grothama for a while but never had the attention span to brew up something myself cuz I knew it would take alot of tweaking and fine tuning. After reading your guide and explanations on the cards I'm wayyyyy more excited to try her out! For now ima copy your decklist since u seem to have it pretty fined tuned and I will make some personal changes as I try out the deck and adjust to my meta. Thank you for the really well written explanation!

I find these sorts of messages really gratifying, thank you Please let me know how it goes!

[Kyra Warsong]

Weeeeell pardner, ah reckon it's time fer another foray inter a new set. Outlaws ah Thunda Junction's surely gotta have some mighty fine gems fer us, yeah? Well, no, as it turns out, we don't have much I find particularly interesting, but as usual, chime in if I'm missing anything.

Railway Brawler - At first glance, this seems like a windmill slam auto-include, but I think it might be harder to utilize than it appears at first blush. The thing that all our power doublers at this point have in common is that you can use them and immediately profit from their application. You drop God-Eternal Rhonas, then immediately swing in for value. Brawler only gives you the counters on entry - meaning unless you have a way to give the creature haste, you will have them sitting around for a turn cycle being scary to everyone else. With Grothama in particular, Brawler does what we don't want - he increases her toughness so she's much harder to put down with our other creatures. To me, Railway Brawler doesn't read like a mythic, at least for us; ironically, I would much rather see Freelance Muscle in my opening hand. I think Brawler isn't a complete miss, but I think everything we already have access to (including Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus and Unnatural Growth, which I'm not presently playing) works better in this particular deck.

Tumbleweed Rising - So this is kinda cute! I don't think it's gonna make the cut in my list, but it could definitely be in the budget deck. The biggest problem I see with it is that you want to play it after Grothama for a 10/10, which is great, but it won't be able to attack Grothama right away. It reads as too slow for me, so I'll pass on this.

Cactus Preserve - This land is for sure better in a deck with a 7-10 mana commander, but 3 mana 5/5 land is pretty decent. Opportunity cost is relatively low. If we compare it to the creature lands we're presently playing, we have Treetop Village and Lair of the Hydra, and I think in terms of card quality, Cactus Preserve sits pretty firmly in the middle of those two. I might end up cutting Treetop Village for the Preserve, since a 5/5 is fairly strong for a creature you can drop and swing with out of nowhere.

So, I don't see much in this one horse town. Prolly best to hit the ol' dusty trail and ride into the sunset. Gonna try and pick up a Force of Vigor from Breaking News. Otherwise... What's the next set? Modern Horizons 3? Well, there's probably gonna be some solid utility spells in there. See ya round, pardner.

[Terrone]

Weeeeell pardner, ah reckon it's time fer another foray inter a new set. Outlaws ah Thunda Junction's surely gotta have some mighty fine gems fer us, yeah? Well, no, as it turns out, we don't have much I find particularly interesting, but as usual, chime in if I'm missing anything.

Railway Brawler - At first glance, this seems like a windmill slam auto-include, but I think it might be harder to utilize than it appears at first blush. The thing that all our power doublers at this point have in common is that you can use them and immediately profit from their application. You drop God-Eternal Rhonas, then immediately swing in for value. Brawler only gives you the counters on entry - meaning unless you have a way to give the creature haste, you will have them sitting around for a turn cycle being scary to everyone else. With Grothama in particular, Brawler does what we don't want - he increases her toughness so she's much harder to put down with our other creatures. To me, Railway Brawler doesn't read like a mythic, at least for us; ironically, I would much rather see Freelance Muscle in my opening hand. I think Brawler isn't a complete miss, but I think everything we already have access to (including Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus and Unnatural Growth, which I'm not presently playing) works better in this particular deck.

I don't agree with railway brawler being a card we don't want. If you think about it, he surely buffs grothama's toughness but also doubles the attack of every creature we drop from now on. So it basically changes nothing on our side, if not how many cards we get to draw (so double the cards!) while making it more difficult for our opponents to get rid of grothama through fightning (in case we get a slow start and can't cash in grothama right away).

Luckily enough i pulled the rhino and two copies of force of vigor yesterday at the prerelease, so i instantly put them in the deck!
My list looks like this now (oh right i *sigh* had to throw away the dreadnought to make some space... I was tearing up as i removed the card from the sleeve)

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Creatures

1 Defiler of Vigor

1 Elvish Spirit Guide

1 Freelance Muscle

1 Ghalta, Primal Hunger

1 Ghalta, Stampede Tyrant

1 God-Eternal Rhonas

1 Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma

1 Green Slime

1 Hunted Troll

1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

1 Mossbridge Troll

1 Noose Constrictor

1 Phyrexian Dreadnought

1 Psychosis Crawler

1 Rhonas the Indomitable

1 Stonehoof Chieftain

1 Stuffy Doll

1 Surrak and Goreclaw

1 Temur Sabertooth

1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

1 Ulvenwald Hydra

1 Vigor

1 Wild Mongrel

1 Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus

1 Railway Brawler

1 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds

Artifacts

1 Basilisk Collar

1 Emerald Medallion

1 Lightning Greaves

1 Rhonas's Monument

1 Shadowspear

1 Sol Ring

1 Swiftfoot Boots

1 The Skullspore Nexus

1 Thought Vessel

Enchantments

1 Bear Umbra

1 Fight Rigging

1 Gaea's Touch

1 Greater Good

1 Pattern of Rebirth

1 Rancor

1 Song of the Dryads

1 Unnatural Growth

1 Wild Growth

Instants

1 Beast Within

1 Berserk

1 Constant Mists

1 Crop Rotation

1 Entish Restoration

1 Harrow

1 Legolas's Quick Reflexes

1 Nature's Claim

1 Noxious Revival

1 Ram Through

1 Return of the Wildspeaker

1 Tyvar's Stand

1 Force of Vigor

Sorceries

1 Bala Ged Recovery // Bala Ged Sanctuary

1 Nature's Lore

1 Nostalgic Dreams

1 Rishkar's Expertise

1 Skyshroud Claim

1 Traverse the Outlands

Lands

1 Castle Garenbrig

1 Emergence Zone

26 Forest

1 Ghost Quarter

1 High Market

1 Lair of the Hydra

1 Mosswort Bridge

1 Reliquary Tower

1 Rogue's Passage

1 Sanctum of Eternity

1 Scavenger Grounds

Approximate Total Cost:

[Kyra Warsong]

Weeeeell pardner, ah reckon it's time fer another foray inter a new set. Outlaws ah Thunda Junction's surely gotta have some mighty fine gems fer us, yeah? Well, no, as it turns out, we don't have much I find particularly interesting, but as usual, chime in if I'm missing anything.

Railway Brawler - At first glance, this seems like a windmill slam auto-include, but I think it might be harder to utilize than it appears at first blush. The thing that all our power doublers at this point have in common is that you can use them and immediately profit from their application. You drop God-Eternal Rhonas, then immediately swing in for value. Brawler only gives you the counters on entry - meaning unless you have a way to give the creature haste, you will have them sitting around for a turn cycle being scary to everyone else. With Grothama in particular, Brawler does what we don't want - he increases her toughness so she's much harder to put down with our other creatures. To me, Railway Brawler doesn't read like a mythic, at least for us; ironically, I would much rather see Freelance Muscle in my opening hand. I think Brawler isn't a complete miss, but I think everything we already have access to (including Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus and Unnatural Growth, which I'm not presently playing) works better in this particular deck.

I don't agree with railway brawler being a card we don't want. If you think about it, he surely buffs grothama's toughness but also doubles the attack of every creature we drop from now on. So it basically changes nothing on our side, if not how many cards we get to draw (so double the cards!) while making it more difficult for our opponents to get rid of grothama through fightning (in case we get a slow start and can't cash in grothama right away).

Luckily enough i pulled the rhino and two copies of force of vigor yesterday at the prerelease, so i instantly put them in the deck!
My list looks like this now (oh right i *sigh* had to throw away the dreadnought to make some space... I was tearing up as i removed the card from the sleeve)

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Creatures

1 Defiler of Vigor

1 Elvish Spirit Guide

1 Freelance Muscle

1 Ghalta, Primal Hunger

1 Ghalta, Stampede Tyrant

1 God-Eternal Rhonas

1 Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma

1 Green Slime

1 Hunted Troll

1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

1 Mossbridge Troll

1 Noose Constrictor

1 Phyrexian Dreadnought

1 Psychosis Crawler

1 Rhonas the Indomitable

1 Stonehoof Chieftain

1 Stuffy Doll

1 Surrak and Goreclaw

1 Temur Sabertooth

1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

1 Ulvenwald Hydra

1 Vigor

1 Wild Mongrel

1 Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus

1 Railway Brawler

1 Selvala, Heart of the Wilds

Artifacts

1 Basilisk Collar

1 Emerald Medallion

1 Lightning Greaves

1 Rhonas's Monument

1 Shadowspear

1 Sol Ring

1 Swiftfoot Boots

1 The Skullspore Nexus

1 Thought Vessel

Enchantments

1 Bear Umbra

1 Fight Rigging

1 Gaea's Touch

1 Greater Good

1 Pattern of Rebirth

1 Rancor

1 Song of the Dryads

1 Unnatural Growth

1 Wild Growth

Instants

1 Beast Within

1 Berserk

1 Constant Mists

1 Crop Rotation

1 Entish Restoration

1 Harrow

1 Legolas's Quick Reflexes

1 Nature's Claim

1 Noxious Revival

1 Ram Through

1 Return of the Wildspeaker

1 Tyvar's Stand

1 Force of Vigor

Sorceries

1 Bala Ged Recovery // Bala Ged Sanctuary

1 Nature's Lore

1 Nostalgic Dreams

1 Rishkar's Expertise

1 Skyshroud Claim

1 Traverse the Outlands

Lands

1 Castle Garenbrig

1 Emergence Zone

26 Forest

1 Ghost Quarter

1 High Market

1 Lair of the Hydra

1 Mosswort Bridge

1 Reliquary Tower

1 Rogue's Passage

1 Sanctum of Eternity

1 Scavenger Grounds

Approximate Total Cost:

I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong, but I still think other doublers do the job better. He just seems ponderous to me. To be clear, I don't think that he's bad, I just think he isn't the windmill slam auto-include that The Skullspore Nexus was. I'm sure you'll have a marvelous time, he's very cool and I'm not denying he's powerful. I just think I'd rather see Skullspore or Rhonas. I don't think I'll be rushing out to pick him up, but let me know how it goes!

[Kyra Warsong]

Agh... I have probably come down a little too hard on Railway Brawler. Sigh. I don't know if I'm just getting cynical in my not even close to old age; just some of these designs don't interest me so much. Railway Brawler is probably good enough to make the cut.

Skullspore's still better tho

[SquirrelToken]

Agh... I have probably come down a little too hard on Railway Brawler. Sigh. I don't know if I'm just getting cynical in my not even close to old age; just some of these designs don't interest me so much. Railway Brawler is probably good enough to make the cut.

Skullspore's still better tho

No argument. Skullspore is nutty in most quadrants. Railway Brawler is not great when you're in topdeck mode. But I think it's definitely worth running, especially as I lucked into opening one yesterday morning