The Community Deck Build Project v9.0

[toctheyounger]

Is Hope of Ghirapur really worth? Let's sound it out.

I mean it's not nothing. Early game it's meh. There is an outside chance of board lock with Delina, Wild Mage, but that's more of a draw in a dedicated list for her. Honestly, it's pretty great lol. Anyway, it was just a matter of fact suggestion.

What I actually want to nominate is Skyhunter Strike Force. There is Adriana, Captain of the Guard too, but I think the drop in cost for the cats is worth it more.

Nay Extortionist. I think the effect it brings is fine, I just don't want to pay that much for it.
Nay Savior. I get what it's doing, but I think the training trigger is a diminishing returns scenario, and we dont have any baked in ways to kill it for stuff back if that's a thing we're going for. I've been looking to squeeze this one into Bruna for a little while now, and it just doesn't quite fit.

[3drinks]

If melee is good (and I think it is with Isshin), then this is Adriana, Captain of the Guard for less mana with a req. I think this is a hit. Lethal in optimum situations, reasonable on its own. Evasion makes it a good enough sword carrier if we want one (and there's a few within budget).

[gsgfdf]

On the topic of removal, I don't ever want to be in a situation that I drew an instant speed removal and I cannot answer the threat. Chef's Kiss is something I would never run as a removal, at most I could see it in a spellslinger deck occupying a "fun" slot.
On Serra Ascendant, I despise this card. I think it's completely unplayable in anything other than life gain decks. It's a trap, we can't evaluate a card on what it does when we are already winning. We are basically playing vintage-lite, why are we running a card with a similar powerlevel as Anointed Chorister? Furthermore, why are we trying to curve out like we are playing an extreme aggro list in a 1v1 situation? Just because we are playing Mardu?

Yay on Skyhunter Strike Force.

[3drinks]

Whew, I had to go back and retabulate some votes in all the discussion because something got skewed. I'll yay the strike force too, that's a clock.

For today as we reset the cycle, let's start with @Dunharrow and myself. If we're looking at more traditional removal, I'll nominate Stronghold Assassin. Fine sac outlet and easily ensures our board can get through. Can still be clamped later on when it's not relevant. I think this guy still performs in this era.

Savior of Ollenbock yay - 2 nay - 1
Fatal Push yay - 0 nay - 1
Aerial Extortionist yay - 0 nay - 2
Skyhunter Strike Force yay - 2 nay - 0
Stronghold Assassin yay - 0 nay - 0

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/5JGLDfA7OEy0ZaPb3Nw9QQ

On the topic of removal, I don't ever want to be in a situation that I drew an instant speed removal and I cannot answer the threat. Chef's Kiss is something I would never run as a removal, at most I could see it in a spellslinger deck occupying a "fun" slot.

Furthermore, why are we trying to curve out like we are playing an extreme aggro list in a 1v1 situation? Just because we are playing Mardu?

I don't think I'd count chef's kiss as removal as much as it was for comparison's sake. As for the curve out, that's a discussion that can be had instead of playing ramp to whatever threat and doing worse at it because we don't have G. I believe that was the example of what or why a serra ascendant would make sense.

[aliciaofthevast]

I think Fatal Push is pretty strong. One is really cheap to hit a range of targets and even in it's failcase you can make mana economy on it. I find I like these more than the nonblack/nonartifact cards, so yay.

What even is aerial extortionist? I think there's cheaper ways to accomplish this, even in repeatable form (Sword of Hearth and Home comes to mind), and it's a really, really hard sell to commit to a five mana 4/3 and rely on a damage trigger. So nay.

Meanwhile I think the strike force is exactly where we wanna be, and turning even a swarm of eldrazi spawn into a threat is sizable. Maybe it's boring, but it gets the job done really well. I'd need a really good reason to nay it, so until that happens yayyyy.

I guess stronghold assassin is okay. It's not exciting but it does the thing. I'd argue Attrition is better though. I guess I'd yay this but it's pretty lukewarm.

[gsgfdf]

Seems like I missed Fatal Push
Nay on Fatal Push, as I already said instants should answer (almost) everything. I never want to face a Nekusar, the Mindrazer or Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm and not be able to answer it. I would rather run Infernal Grasp.
Nay on Stronghold Assassin, we don't really have any expendable bodies and I don't like to wait for my removal. I would rather run something like Ravenous Chupacabra or Shriekmaw.

What even is Aerial Extortionist? I think there's cheaper ways to accomplish this, even in repeatable form (Sword of Hearth and Home comes to mind), and it's a really, really hard sell to commit to a five mana 4/3 and rely on a damage trigger. So nay.

I have a confession to make, when I suggested it I thought it triggered on attack, not combat damage...

[3drinks]

Morning upkeep, a couple confirms, as well I'm making an executive decision on Savior of Ollenbock as discussion seems to have stalled, to confirm it into the list as well.

Aerial Extortionist yay - 0 nay - 3
Skyhunter Strike Force yay - 3 nay - 0
Savior of Ollenbock yay - 2 nay - 1
Fatal Push yay - 1 nay - 2
Stronghold Assassin yay - 1 nay - 1

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/5JGLDfA7OEy0ZaPb3Nw9QQ

Let's put @toctheyounger and @gsgfdf on the clock for today.

[Dunharrow]

I was potty training my toddler this weekend, so I missed a bunch
I am medium on STronghold Assassing taking a turn to activate (though we do have a lot of haste). I am also medium on non-black. I do like sacrificing myrad tokens though. Can we get more myriad before I say Yay?

My nomination would be Baleful Mastery. Exile is really important, and 2 mana is worth the drawback.

[3drinks]

I've been hearing good things on baleful mastery, maybe it is better than it reads. A random card off the top is probably better they have than what you're hitting I'd imagine (no one is firing this off on an Elvish Mystic). That's probably a yay.

[toctheyounger]

I like Mastery, and I like Push. Yea for both. Stronghold I am not into, I think it's seen it's time in the sun despite 3drinks' hipster predilections.

I'm going to nominate Mangara, the Diplomat. This has an attack trigger, and yes Isshin will proc it. It's a little bit of pseudo-protection, and I think it's a good add purely because decks like this, that win in the red zone, tend to fall flat on keeping a grip. I think this will do good things for us.

[aliciaofthevast]

Ohhhh, I didn't realize Isshin would double Mangara's trigger like that, I think I like it! That's really super neat. I think Baleful Mastery is pretty decent too, I'll yay them both.

I wanna change my yay vote on Stronghold Assassin. I really don't think it's where we want to be upon further reflection.

I have a confession to make, when I suggested it I thought it triggered on attack, not combat damage...

I think we've all done that! Don't beat yourself up too bad. 🙃

[gsgfdf]

Yay on Baleful Mastery, I've been using it for a while now and I have been really impressed.
Yay on Mangara, the Diplomat.

For my turn I would like to suggest the double combo of Mishra, Claimed by Gix and Phyrexian Dragon Engine. We have plenty of haste and both cards are good on their own. If we add some gy shenanigans later it will become pretty consistent.

[Moxnix]

Yay fatal push
yay baleful mastery
yay mangara
nay stronghold assassin
Yay mishra, cliamed by gix
Nay Dragon Engine

Mishra is good enough on his own dragon engine is not and combining is a pipe dream.

[3drinks]

That's a lot of clean up. As well, I removed the rock suite as that was contentious and sounded like there was a discussion to be had there? So let's have a conversation about that. I suspect the better use of resources in these slots is all the Seize the Spoils/Big Score effects so we can get a mana boost and filter, which feels less time walkey than playing a mana stone + pass. I guess Arcane Signet/Fellwar Stone are still playable though, at least.

I will yay Mishra and similarly, I will nay Dragon Engine. Mishra is quite strong on it's own and the phyrexian dragon engine is just as unplayable as the OG. Trying to meld them to make a strong Mishra stronger is win more, much as I do like all the text on the back side.

Next on the docket will be @Moxnix and @aliciaofthevast.

Stronghold Assassin yay - 0 nay - 4
Fatal Push yay - 3 nay - 2
Baleful Mastery yay - 5 nay - 0
Mangara, the Diplomat yay - 3 nay - 0
Mishra, Claimed by Gix yay - 2 nay - 0
Phyrexian Dragon Engine yay - 0 nay - 2

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/5JGLDfA7OEy0ZaPb3Nw9QQ

[Moxnix]

Ill Man a few cards I want to give a go. Ill nominate Reconnaissance 1 drop that gives vigilance and better excellent with the token gens.

[toctheyounger]

So let's have a conversation about that. I suspect the better use of resources in these slots is all the Seize the Spoils/Big Score effects so we can get a mana boost and filter, which feels less time walkey than playing a mana stone + pass. I guess Arcane Signet/Fellwar Stone are still playable though, at least.

This seems reasonable, if we can pull enough of them together to justify replacing rocks with. Generally they sit a little higher on the curve, but I guess there's always Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame etc. I agree regarding Signet and Stone, I think they're both just fine.

I'm going to nay both Mishra and his engine. I think Mishra's attack trigger is fine but we're probably dreaming if we think it's gonna end games. Unfortunately it doesn't work with the creatures that Myrel and Adeline create, nor Delina, so I think it probably ends up being a bit win more, in that if we've got a horde we're winning anyway, and if we don't it just won't do what we'd like it to.

[aliciaofthevast]

I think Mishra is great, and I don't follow toctheyounger's point about not working with Adeline. Don't you stack the triggers the same way you do with Hero of Bladehold's battle cry? What am I missing? This answer will determine my vote I guess!

I don't think the dragon engine is good though, and trying to set up a two card combo without tutors and it doesn't even win the game 😳

But for today I'm going to submit Smuggler's Copter!

Oh right, Reconnaissance was nominated. It feels kinda cheaty face in how it works but I think we have to play it right?

So let's have a conversation about that. I suspect the better use of resources in these slots is all the Seize the Spoils/Big Score effects so we can get a mana boost and filter, which feels less time walkey than playing a mana stone + pass. I guess Arcane Signet/Fellwar Stone are still playable though, at least.

This seems reasonable, if we can pull enough of them together to justify replacing rocks with. Generally they sit a little higher on the curve, but I guess there's always Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame etc. I agree regarding Signet and Stone, I think they're both just fine.

I'm going to nay both Mishra and his engine. I think Mishra's attack trigger is fine but we're probably dreaming if we think it's gonna end games. Unfortunately it doesn't work with the creatures that Myrel and Adeline create, nor Delina, so I think it probably ends up being a bit win more, in that if we've got a horde we're winning anyway, and if we don't it just won't do what we'd like it to.

Ohh, this, I like not having to choose between taking a turn off to play a rock or play a draw spell so if we're doing more deadly disputes and big scores, then I support these changes.

[toctheyounger]

I think Mishra is great, and I don't follow toctheyounger's point about not working with Adeline. Don't you stack the triggers the same way you do with Hero of Bladehold's battle cry? What am I missing? This answer will determine my vote I guess!

I would've thought it wouldn't recognise creatures that enter but aren't declared as attacking. Am I wrong? I could be. I'm happy to recant my nay if I'm wrong.

Also, yea Copter, great add. I can't see a reason not to include Reconnaissance either. Card is broken tbh.

[3drinks]

I would've thought it wouldn't recognize creatures that enter but aren't declared as attacking. Am I wrong? I could be. I'm happy to recant my nay if I'm wrong.

I have some experience with this from my "Life's {Magic} work" . So, what Mishra, Claimed by Gix is looking for is number of creatures attacking, it doesn't matter how they got there. Contrast this to, say, Kaalia that doesn't like those "Flameblast Syndrome™" creatures templated in the form of when ~ is declared as an attacker since they won't proc on the turn she deploys them. so, basically, you just want to always put Mishra on the stack first, Isshin's duplicity trigger right next to it on the bottom of the stack, and everything else on top to maximize Mishra's trigger.

Comparing this to another recent-ish card Fireflux Squad we see that it has a different timing restriction as well, which really pained me when I was trying to force it inside of Gut, True Soul Zealot and Kari Zev, Skyship Raider (well, in that it requires a target which won't be present at the time you want to attack with these).

[3drinks]

I'd yay Recon and Looter Scooter. I think with my explanation above, that swings Lish' vote to a confirm on Mishra as well, as well as Toc's. I don't think dragon engine is going to be confirmed, but it's technically hanging out here in the wild waiting...

New cycle of picks incoming, so let's start with myself and @Dunharrow. Since I mentioned it before, and that's the direction we're going towards, I may as well start with Deadly Dispute.

Mishra, Claimed by Gix yay - 4 nay - 0
Reconnaissance yay - 3 nay - 0
Phyrexian Dragon Engine yay - 0 nay - 2
Smuggler's Copter yay -2 nay - 0
Deadly Dispute yay - 0 nay - 0

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/5JGLDfA7OEy0ZaPb3Nw9QQ

[aliciaofthevast]

For sure I'll yay deadly dispute! I like Nasty End a bunch too, but dispute is effectively one mana. That's pretty strong!

[toctheyounger]

Yea for Dispute, it's a great card. Also, I recant my critique of Mishra. I still don't think the meld is that much better that the engine is worthwhile, but if it triggers from Isshin Mishra is worth it.

[gsgfdf]

Come on guys, Phyrexian Dragon Engine is not that bad. It's a decent effect for 3.

Yay copter
Nay on dispute, we don't have much synergy except a few token makers. I don't really like one shot effects like this, I would rather play something like Skullclamp [/card] or Plumb the Forbidden [/card].
It's already confirmed but I don't really like reconnaissance. For me, the way to make sure something survives an attack is to play bigger stuff than everyone else.

[Dunharrow]

Nay dragon engine
Yay copter
pass on deadly dispute. I know why you all want it, I just don't particularly like my card draw attached to sacrificing creatures if there is no synergy. I would play night's whisper over this 100 times out of 10.

For my nomination, since we seem to be looking for mana acceleration, I will suggest Breeches, Eager Pillager
You can't double the treasure tokens but I think we will always be happy with a double trigger here.

[3drinks]

Come on guys, Phyrexian Dragon Engine is not that bad. It's a decent effect for 3.

3 for a 2/2 double strike is fair. It's not exciting (consider Fireshrieker for a similar rate) and we're not super jazzed about the all in ETB either. The meld probably doesn't happen, and if it does is usually going to be win more. I think that's why most people have rejected it.

pass on deadly dispute. I know why you all want it, I just don't particularly like my card draw attached to sacrificing creatures if there is no synergy. I would play night's whisper over this 100 times out of 10.

For my nomination, since we seem to be looking for mana acceleration, I will suggest Breeches, Eager Pillager
You can't double the treasure tokens but I think we will always be happy with a double trigger here.

I should have suggested Big Score I guess, first, though I imagine the appeal is effectively 1mv to blank a removal and draw. Does this mean you don't like Nasty End as well? This isn't an aristocrats deck to my recollection but these effects are so good.

I normally wouldn't comment on cards unreleased, but I'm fairly certain this Breeches version would end up in this deck forever, so it's not like it's some big spoiler alert. I'll yay that.