[Deck] Amulet Titan

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
I think Tocatli Honor Guard is pretty good in the MU, but obviously Auriok Champion isn't haha. Match 3 is up now btw.

As for the side strategy, that's just such low EV for my time and the viewers. I think I'd rather concede there haha.
I think it's okay to side in. I'd have to see what they sided out. I just think it's approaching the matchup incorrectly. They are a quicker, more consistent combo deck. I feel like the strategy in the matchup is to combo as quickly as you can and hope to dodge Beast Within or Dismember (Beast can be easily telegraphed). Them stopping Amulet from doing what it does is not usually a winning recipe. But then maybe there were worse cards in the main. I would not side out any combo pieces, Giver of Runes, or mana dorks imo vs. Amulet. Our strategy is to slow them a little bit, then combo off ourselves. If we just sit with removal and don't get Titan, we can't outvalue Ranger Captain of Eos.

I respect you for not doing that strategy on MTGO. I just wanted you to be aware that it does exist, in paper and online.
That's fair. I got the read that they weren't playing Druid Combo, just Heliod, which is admittedly a little slower. Even CoCo is a bit slow vs us, and they played that in G1. Still, their best line is likely just to go all in, as you mentioned. Tocatli may be too low impact, since it doesn't stop attack triggers or Dryad, but it might gain them the extra turn they need to combo. I agree that it isn't better than any of the cards you listed, but I'd side out a Finks For it, for example. The finks combo is 3-cards and a total of 7 mana, too unreliable imo. Their wincon should be Spike Feeder, just combing in response to removal anyways.

I appreciate you letting me know on that strat vs. infinite life. I wasn't aware before. I don't think I'd employ it though, even in paper, since that's just boring gameplay. It's still good to know about.
The best combo is with Druid since it kills with Ballista, which you're right. It doesn't look like they're playing that. Ballista and Heliod can often take too much mana or be easily interacted with. Life gain in this matchup is not good, but I guess if they have Chord, it is much easier to find the 1 of Viscera Seer or 4 Vizier of Remedies. I guess it's a moot point kind of since I'm talking about my Abzan Heliod, not their deck, and I don't really know what their deck list is.

I was 4 Heliod short of running the newer version. I have played Company decks of all kinds ever since they came out; I just take breaks and play other stuff quite often. When I got my Heliods, I ended up facing Amulet, which was funny because that's what I normally was running. The Amulet player also didn't usually go to our FNM and the last time I saw him play was Goblins. I ended up in that very situation and only won because he Aether Gusted his Azusa to the top to not deck out first, but ended up 1 card short. He said that he should have sided all 4 Aether Gust, lol.

Then I go back to playing Amulet at another place on Sunday (2 days after that FNM) and a Soul Sisters player is on Heliod Combo. Odd situations for decks I've never seen either of those guys play before, lol. I got thrust into the same situation and was 1-1-1 in game 3. I told him that if he had more cards in his library, I'd scoop. But I didn't and I can't also force him to scoop. I ended up punting the final round to Zoo when I could have searched up bounceland, bounceland w/ red with my Prime Time, then Pacted for Dryad, then played Dryad, then played an extra land in hand, which was Hanweir Battlements at the time, played it for my extra Dryad land per turn, and swung for barely lethal, getting Valakut triggers. I didn't consider the double bounceland w/ Red floating after Dryad line since I was trying to see what I needed to do to survive the next turn. I felt that was Radiant Fountain and some other stuff, lol.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Crazy match. I'm kind of glad I saw that as well because I 100% would have gone for the double strike win as well and got blown out by Lightning Bolt with Soul-Scar Mage in play. The best thing is to think everything out, but I would have assumed it's lethal anyway.

Yes, you noticed the Azusa attack with +2/+0 and double strike once Lurrus blocked. The opponent was at 1, so they have to block with Lurrus or have 1 mana instant speed removal (which they possibly would have used last turn to prowess a tiny bit harder, but smartly would have held it). I think either way (even if you did that line), you lose unless you draw the Titan the turn that you did. The scoop was really odd. It made me think that they were stream sniping you, but you don't have it on Twitch, right? I'm still trying to figure out what happened.

You got it on the horizon land; they play it for the draw, but also so that their "Red" mana can also cast Lurrus. They have a certain number of black producing lands and white producing lands to ensure Lurrus on turn 3 as often as possible. Good choice on getting the Amulet out as well. FPawlusz believes that siding in Smash to Smithereens is not smart of them and I agree. He's seen too many opponents die with Smash in hand. I've played a lot less than him, but I've also wondered and wondered what some of my opponents had in hand and why I wasn't dead - only for them to show me Smash to Smithereens. You never side out damage that can always happen for that conditional damage, imo. So it's much better to play around discard than Smash. I should also say that the new lists don't play Blood Moon, so I wouldn't really play around it unless you can easily play around it and not cost you losing to other KNOWN cards.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
Crazy match. I'm kind of glad I saw that as well because I 100% would have gone for the double strike win as well and got blown out by Lightning Bolt with Soul-Scar Mage in play. The best thing is to think everything out, but I would have assumed it's lethal anyway.

Yes, you noticed the Azusa attack with +2/+0 and double strike once Lurrus blocked. The opponent was at 1, so they have to block with Lurrus or have 1 mana instant speed removal (which they possibly would have used last turn to prowess a tiny bit harder, but smartly would have held it). I think either way (even if you did that line), you lose unless you draw the Titan the turn that you did. The scoop was really odd. It made me think that they were stream sniping you, but you don't have it on Twitch, right? I'm still trying to figure out what happened.

You got it on the horizon land; they play it for the draw, but also so that their "Red" mana can also cast Lurrus. They have a certain number of black producing lands and white producing lands to ensure Lurrus on turn 3 as often as possible. Good choice on getting the Amulet out as well. FPawlusz believes that siding in Smash to Smithereens is not smart of them and I agree. He's seen too many opponents die with Smash in hand. I've played a lot less than him, but I've also wondered and wondered what some of my opponents had in hand and why I wasn't dead - only for them to show me Smash to Smithereens. You never side out damage that can always happen for that conditional damage, imo. So it's much better to play around discard than Smash. I should also say that the new lists don't play Blood Moon, so I wouldn't really play around it unless you can easily play around it and not cost you losing to other KNOWN cards.
Nope, I don't stream, just record. It's also part of the reason I do individual matches -- I can't commit the time for more than that. I suppose it could have been a misclick: "right click->yield until end of turn" becomes "right click->concede"? That's my best possible guess.

Yeah, the double strike line was the only one that actually gave the opp an out there, so glad to learn the lesson without actually losing the game for it.

I didn't realize the Canyon tapped for Lurrus as well. That makes total sense.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
Crazy match. I'm kind of glad I saw that as well because I 100% would have gone for the double strike win as well and got blown out by Lightning Bolt with Soul-Scar Mage in play. The best thing is to think everything out, but I would have assumed it's lethal anyway.

Yes, you noticed the Azusa attack with +2/+0 and double strike once Lurrus blocked. The opponent was at 1, so they have to block with Lurrus or have 1 mana instant speed removal (which they possibly would have used last turn to prowess a tiny bit harder, but smartly would have held it). I think either way (even if you did that line), you lose unless you draw the Titan the turn that you did. The scoop was really odd. It made me think that they were stream sniping you, but you don't have it on Twitch, right? I'm still trying to figure out what happened.

You got it on the horizon land; they play it for the draw, but also so that their "Red" mana can also cast Lurrus. They have a certain number of black producing lands and white producing lands to ensure Lurrus on turn 3 as often as possible. Good choice on getting the Amulet out as well. FPawlusz believes that siding in Smash to Smithereens is not smart of them and I agree. He's seen too many opponents die with Smash in hand. I've played a lot less than him, but I've also wondered and wondered what some of my opponents had in hand and why I wasn't dead - only for them to show me Smash to Smithereens. You never side out damage that can always happen for that conditional damage, imo. So it's much better to play around discard than Smash. I should also say that the new lists don't play Blood Moon, so I wouldn't really play around it unless you can easily play around it and not cost you losing to other KNOWN cards.
Nope, I don't stream, just record. It's also part of the reason I do individual matches -- I can't commit the time for more than that. I suppose it could have been a misclick: "right click->yield until end of turn" becomes "right click->concede"? That's my best possible guess.

Yeah, the double strike line was the only one that actually gave the opp an out there, so glad to learn the lesson without actually losing the game for it.

I didn't realize the Canyon tapped for Lurrus as well. That makes total sense.
BTW, I appreciate the vids. It's cool to be able to talk about plays and choices that one of us has done. It's good to reflect on that. It makes me miss paper so much too. :anxious: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
Crazy match. I'm kind of glad I saw that as well because I 100% would have gone for the double strike win as well and got blown out by Lightning Bolt with Soul-Scar Mage in play. The best thing is to think everything out, but I would have assumed it's lethal anyway.

Yes, you noticed the Azusa attack with +2/+0 and double strike once Lurrus blocked. The opponent was at 1, so they have to block with Lurrus or have 1 mana instant speed removal (which they possibly would have used last turn to prowess a tiny bit harder, but smartly would have held it). I think either way (even if you did that line), you lose unless you draw the Titan the turn that you did. The scoop was really odd. It made me think that they were stream sniping you, but you don't have it on Twitch, right? I'm still trying to figure out what happened.

You got it on the horizon land; they play it for the draw, but also so that their "Red" mana can also cast Lurrus. They have a certain number of black producing lands and white producing lands to ensure Lurrus on turn 3 as often as possible. Good choice on getting the Amulet out as well. FPawlusz believes that siding in Smash to Smithereens is not smart of them and I agree. He's seen too many opponents die with Smash in hand. I've played a lot less than him, but I've also wondered and wondered what some of my opponents had in hand and why I wasn't dead - only for them to show me Smash to Smithereens. You never side out damage that can always happen for that conditional damage, imo. So it's much better to play around discard than Smash. I should also say that the new lists don't play Blood Moon, so I wouldn't really play around it unless you can easily play around it and not cost you losing to other KNOWN cards.
Nope, I don't stream, just record. It's also part of the reason I do individual matches -- I can't commit the time for more than that. I suppose it could have been a misclick: "right click->yield until end of turn" becomes "right click->concede"? That's my best possible guess.

Yeah, the double strike line was the only one that actually gave the opp an out there, so glad to learn the lesson without actually losing the game for it.

I didn't realize the Canyon tapped for Lurrus as well. That makes total sense.
BTW, I appreciate the vids. It's cool to be able to talk about plays and choices that one of us has done. It's good to reflect on that. It makes me miss paper so much too. :anxious: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:
Maybe I can skype you in sometime. :)


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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match 5 is up.
I always felt like Ad Nauseam was pretty tough, but I haven't played against it for ages.

That first game was crazy. You took a calculated guess and Ghost Quartered him off Black mana. I've seen usually 1 Plains or 1 Island. Your opponent had 2 Plains. :thinking: I think on the mulligan decision, I would have kept Bojuka Bog over the 2nd Arboreal Grazer. You had 2 ramp cards in Arboreal Grazer and Explore, so I feel those are sufficient. I'd rather keep the guaranteed mana source, although admittedly in a 30 land deck, you should draw some lands anyway. ;)
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match 5 is up.
I always felt like Ad Nauseam was pretty tough, but I haven't played against it for ages.

That first game was crazy. You took a calculated guess and Ghost Quartered him off Black mana. I've seen usually 1 Plains or 1 Island. Your opponent had 2 Plains. :thinking: I think on the mulligan decision, I would have kept Bojuka Bog over the 2nd Arboreal Grazer. You had 2 ramp cards in Arboreal Grazer and Explore, so I feel those are sufficient. I'd rather keep the guaranteed mana source, although admittedly in a 30 land deck, you should draw some lands anyway. ;)
I always feel like it's a coin flip. Do they have it? Can we slow them down with Beast Within? Do they have a Pact of Negation and Angels Grace for our Titan? Is all just random chance. *shrug*

I didn't voice it out loud in the video, but part of the reason for bottoming the Bog there was because AdNaus sometimes boards in Thoughtseize, and taking one of our 2 ramp spells would've made the hand too slow.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match 5 is up.
I always felt like Ad Nauseam was pretty tough, but I haven't played against it for ages.

That first game was crazy. You took a calculated guess and Ghost Quartered him off Black mana. I've seen usually 1 Plains or 1 Island. Your opponent had 2 Plains. :thinking: I think on the mulligan decision, I would have kept Bojuka Bog over the 2nd Arboreal Grazer. You had 2 ramp cards in Arboreal Grazer and Explore, so I feel those are sufficient. I'd rather keep the guaranteed mana source, although admittedly in a 30 land deck, you should draw some lands anyway. ;)
I always feel like it's a coin flip. Do they have it? Can we slow them down with Beast Within? Do they have a Pact of Negation and Angels Grace for our Titan? Is all just random chance. *shrug*

I didn't voice it out loud in the video, but part of the reason for bottoming the Bog there was because AdNaus sometimes boards in Thoughtseize, and taking one of our 2 ramp spells would've made the hand too slow.
That's true. The few times I've played against it with Amulet, they've had it. With Serum Visions, Sleight of Hand (before the new Thassa's Oracle, haven't played against it with Amulet since), they always seem to have it. But I did play the same Ad Nauseam I still own now in 2012 and I often did find it hard to find that last card, usually Ad Nauseam. Spoils of the Vault can often exile the win-con or too many SSGs, which is GG as well. I guess I just always expect them to have it whenever they have mana - that feels like the bottleneck for them imo.

That's a good point on the Thoughtseize. Considering this, you definitely did the safer (and better) line. Sometimes I get so caught up thinking their hand is Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam, Pentad Prism, and lands, that I forget what they're siding in.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago

I always felt like Ad Nauseam was pretty tough, but I haven't played against it for ages.

That first game was crazy. You took a calculated guess and Ghost Quartered him off Black mana. I've seen usually 1 Plains or 1 Island. Your opponent had 2 Plains. :thinking: I think on the mulligan decision, I would have kept Bojuka Bog over the 2nd Arboreal Grazer. You had 2 ramp cards in Arboreal Grazer and Explore, so I feel those are sufficient. I'd rather keep the guaranteed mana source, although admittedly in a 30 land deck, you should draw some lands anyway. ;)
I always feel like it's a coin flip. Do they have it? Can we slow them down with Beast Within? Do they have a Pact of Negation and Angels Grace for our Titan? Is all just random chance. *shrug*

I didn't voice it out loud in the video, but part of the reason for bottoming the Bog there was because AdNaus sometimes boards in Thoughtseize, and taking one of our 2 ramp spells would've made the hand too slow.
That's true. The few times I've played against it with Amulet, they've had it. With Serum Visions, Sleight of Hand (before the new Thassa's Oracle, haven't played against it with Amulet since), they always seem to have it. But I did play the same Ad Nauseam I still own now in 2012 and I often did find it hard to find that last card, usually Ad Nauseam. Spoils of the Vault can often exile the win-con or too many SSGs, which is GG as well. I guess I just always expect them to have it whenever they have mana - that feels like the bottleneck for them imo.

That's a good point on the Thoughtseize. Considering this, you definitely did the safer (and better) line. Sometimes I get so caught up thinking their hand is Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam, Pentad Prism, and lands, that I forget what they're siding in.
In my recent and limited experience, AdNaus is like 10% to exile relevant cards nowadays, because It's easy to pitch a single Guide and use a land in play to play Pentad for 2, make UU and play Oracle. You don't really even need the Lightning Storm.

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

Match one of the next league is up, though it may get cut short by rules update on the 3rd. If that happens, I'll play the rest in 2pq's to make up for it.

Also, I think I'm just dedicating my channel to Amulet for the foreseeable future. Esper just isn't as good. I tried recording with Esper and saw 2 Veil of Summer in a single game, thereby remembering why I stopped playing it lol.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match one of the next league is up, though it may get cut short by rules update on the 3rd. If that happens, I'll play the rest in 2pq's to make up for it.

Also, I think I'm just dedicating my channel to Amulet for the foreseeable future. Esper just isn't as good. I tried recording with Esper and saw 2 Veil of Summer in a single game, thereby remembering why I stopped playing it lol.
Sweet. Good idea, I also think Amulet is much better placed than Esper.

I used to love UB Control a lot in Standard, but that was when all I played was Control. I literally couldn't do combat damage. I think it was around Zendikar that I learned combat damage, lol. I was horribly bad at it. I am a bit biased against Esper in Modern. I used to play Bogles at my LGS around 2013. There was a really good player who I beat 17 times straight (they had kavu.ru to track stats and still have mtgstats.net) who only played Esper Control and GR Tron. I used to think that those decks were trash because I was playing a trash deck and stomped those decks. I realized that they were poor matchups for those decks at the time, but all I could think about is that they can't even beat Bogles. And most games were not close and matches were usually 2-0. I should say that he almost always ended up X-1 or X-2 in 6 round FNMs, but I couldn't get beyond the Bogles vs. Esper matchup in my head.

Since that time with me on other decks and that player on other decks, he is 14-9 vs. me. He has helped his percentage considerably, lol.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match one of the next league is up, though it may get cut short by rules update on the 3rd. If that happens, I'll play the rest in 2pq's to make up for it.

Also, I think I'm just dedicating my channel to Amulet for the foreseeable future. Esper just isn't as good. I tried recording with Esper and saw 2 Veil of Summer in a single game, thereby remembering why I stopped playing it lol.
Sweet. Good idea, I also think Amulet is much better placed than Esper.

I used to love UB Control a lot in Standard, but that was when all I played was Control. I literally couldn't do combat damage. I think it was around Zendikar that I learned combat damage, lol. I was horribly bad at it. I am a bit biased against Esper in Modern. I used to play Bogles at my LGS around 2013. There was a really good player who I beat 17 times straight (they had kavu.ru to track stats and still have mtgstats.net) who only played Esper Control and GR Tron. I used to think that those decks were trash because I was playing a trash deck and stomped those decks. I realized that they were poor matchups for those decks at the time, but all I could think about is that they can't even beat Bogles. And most games were not close and matches were usually 2-0. I should say that he almost always ended up X-1 or X-2 in 6 round FNMs, but I couldn't get beyond the Bogles vs. Esper matchup in my head.

Since that time with me on other decks and that player on other decks, he is 14-9 vs. me. He has helped his percentage considerably, lol.
I'd done pretty well in local events with Esper up until Veil was printed. A lot of people play versions of Esper that are innately flawed, such as jamming a bunch of discard spells into a counterspell-control strategy, or playing Lingering Souls in Esper decks that weren't geared for a midrange battle. Esper Draw-Go, IMO, has historically been the polished and most competitive Esper control deck, but it has also been the minority. For the record, I've generally found the Boggles matchup to be fine for Esper, since ECharm kills totem armor enchants and the deck could win easily after even a single wrath. Not to mention Blessed Alliance, Kayas Guile, and EE in the board.

Then, of course Veil comes around and now the only truly viable control decks have been Yorion decks and Bant Snow, since they have enough value, Astrolabe for perfect mana, and access to Veil themselves. Veil is one of 2 reasons I play Amulet, the only other being fpawlusz.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
I'd done pretty well in local events with Esper up until Veil was printed. A lot of people play versions of Esper that are innately flawed, such as jamming a bunch of discard spells into a counterspell-control strategy, or playing Lingering Souls in Esper decks that weren't geared for a midrange battle. Esper Draw-Go, IMO, has historically been the polished and most competitive Esper control deck, but it has also been the minority. For the record, I've generally found the Boggles matchup to be fine for Esper, since ECharm kills totem armor enchants and the deck could win easily after even a single wrath. Not to mention Blessed Alliance, Kayas Guile, and EE in the board.

Then, of course Veil comes around and now the only truly viable control decks have been Yorion decks and Bant Snow, since they have enough value, Astrolabe for perfect mana, and access to Veil themselves. Veil is one of 2 reasons I play Amulet, the only other being fpawlusz.
I could see that. He experimented with a few versions, but none of them had all that much discard. Lingering Souls used to be much better at that time - power creep has diminished a lot of cards like this and made them look embarrassing nowadays. Esper Draw Go was the main archetype he played. This was before Blessed Alliance and Kaya's Guile, think 2013. Esper Charm was around and literally the only reason I was somewhat attracted to the deck (because I played that card in Standard), but a 3 mana enchantment removal card wasn't going to do much after I have 2-3 Auras already on. This was also before Engineered Explosives really got noticed. I was always super wary of that card, but people just refused to play more than 2 copies.

Another reason I have such a different view than other people is because most Bogles players are terrible. I'm not gonna sugar coat it. If I'm playing against a deck that has Abrupt Decay and it seems unlikely a discard spell is going to hit me, I'm putting at least 2 enchantments on before I put Daybreak Coronet. I have to weigh a discard spell vs. an Abrupt Decay, while also considering if I'm winning the race doing it safer. If I play against a Liliana of the Veil deck, I always leave a fetchland unfetched. I played 2 Dryad Arbor and 8 fetchlands in my main when most people played 1. The cards that used to be super good vs. Bogles were very rarely played. I always wondered why people didn't overplay certain cards that were good against Bogles. I understand that we had 32-55 players at times, but you have to side against what is winning. :hmm:

Some people think brainless deck (like with Titanshift too) and don't try to maximize it. At the end of my time playing Bogles, I ended up something like 85-50 vs. BGx and I take pride in that. It also was closer to 66.6% until I didn't do so well near the end. I remember writing tournament reports and most of the other Bogles players were just in awe - they were not used to a Bogles players knowing rules and playing close to the best possible way.

I have been a combo player for at least 5 years now. I love playing decks like Bogles that are so fragile, yet if I dodge very rarely played cards, I have a great chance. I enjoy that fragility in the deck, things like knowing if my opponent's hand is 3 land and 2 Engineered Explosives, I absolutely cannot win. But if they don't, I stomp. That is the feeling I enjoy in Magic.

*At my LGS, Amulet with Summer Bloom was my worst matchup for Bogles. This was my first intrigue with the deck.

**There was one situation that left me with a quite odd feeling at my LGS. I was up against Esper Gifts, a deck that I also almost never lost to. (Leyline of Sanctity is good against a deck with discard and Gifts.) The player was also a very good player. He asked me if any of my enchantments gave "regeneration." I looked at them and answered the question truthfully. I said, "no." I don't believe in giving extra information, which is dangerous in the game of mtg because you could end up saying something wrong. So he Gifts EoT for 2 Wrath cards, a Snappy, and a Noxious Revival. I give him Snap and Revival. He Revivals the Supreme Verdict, then casts it the next turn. I put the Spider Umbra in the graveyard to his dismay. Then on my turn I swing for lethal. I felt a bit badly, but I feel I answered truthfully. I would have let him take it back if he wanted, but he wouldn't do that. He's too competitive, like myself, to give himself a takeback. He showed me that he had in his hand an out to the Umbra, but he just didn't know. You would be surprised how many people don't know rulings with Bogle cards. Some people even attack fliers into a creature with Reach (Spider Umbra).
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope


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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
I could see that. He experimented with a few versions, but none of them had all that much discard. Lingering Souls used to be much better at that time - power creep has diminished a lot of cards like this and made them look embarrassing nowadays. Esper Draw Go was the main archetype he played. This was before Blessed Alliance and Kaya's Guile, think 2013. Esper Charm was around and literally the only reason I was somewhat attracted to the deck (because I played that card in Standard), but a 3 mana enchantment removal card wasn't going to do much after I have 2-3 Auras already on. This was also before Engineered Explosives really got noticed. I was always super wary of that card, but people just refused to play more than 2 copies.
Even nowadays, people still play 2 EE max. Amulet included. I don't think more than 2 is really necessary in general now, maybe it was better back then. I got into Esper Draw-Go around 2014-15ish, and I'm honestly amazed to hear about a person who's played it longer. You should ask them if they were on MTGS and what their user was if they were! That person is a treasure.
Another reason I have such a different view than other people is because most Bogles players are terrible. I'm not gonna sugar coat it. If I'm playing against a deck that has Abrupt Decay and it seems unlikely a discard spell is going to hit me, I'm putting at least 2 enchantments on before I put Daybreak Coronet. I have to weigh a discard spell vs. an Abrupt Decay, while also considering if I'm winning the race doing it safer. If I play against a Liliana of the Veil deck, I always leave a fetchland unfetched. I played 2 Dryad Arbor and 8 fetchlands in my main when most people played 1. The cards that used to be super good vs. Bogles were very rarely played. I always wondered why people didn't overplay certain cards that were good against Bogles. I understand that we had 32-55 players at times, but you have to side against what is winning. :hmm:

Some people think brainless deck (like with Titanshift too) and don't try to maximize it. At the end of my time playing Bogles, I ended up something like 85-50 vs. BGx and I take pride in that. It also was closer to 66.6% until I didn't do so well near the end. I remember writing tournament reports and most of the other Bogles players were just in awe - they were not used to a Bogles players knowing rules and playing close to the best possible way.
This doesn't suprise me at all. Even I view you as being more spike-y than myself. If you regularly attend GP's, you're going to outclass most FNM warriors. I mean, you even keep detailed records of your win percentages. I don't do that. xD
I have been a combo player for at least 5 years now. I love playing decks like Bogles that are so fragile, yet if I dodge very rarely played cards, I have a great chance. I enjoy that fragility in the deck, things like knowing if my opponent's hand is 3 land and 2 Engineered Explosives, I absolutely cannot win. But if they don't, I stomp. That is the feeling I enjoy in Magic.
Interestingly enough, fragility is my least favorite feeling in magic. I like to play decks that maximize options, so you are as unfragile as possible at any given time. I love Amulet for the toolbox and flexibility as much as I love the maximizability of playing a deck like Esper as optimally as possible.
*At my LGS, Amulet with Summer Bloom was my worst matchup for Bogles. This was my first intrigue with the deck.
Again, this is ironic in relation to my first experiences with Amulet. I had hated Summer Bloom since the first game I played, mainly because T2 Bloom otp was impossible to beat as a control deck unless you had a Spell Snare. Force of Negation obviously wasn't legal. After I stumbled across fpawlusz's gameplay, I realized the deck had evolved into a more synergistic combo-toolbox deck than a glass cannon combo, and found that the complex gameplay attracted me. I bought/traded into it over time and have never looked back. :D
**There was one situation that left me with a quite odd feeling at my LGS. I was up against Esper Gifts, a deck that I also almost never lost to. (Leyline of Sanctity is good against a deck with discard and Gifts.) The player was also a very good player. He asked me if any of my enchantments gave "regeneration." I looked at them and answered the question truthfully. I said, "no." I don't believe in giving extra information, which is dangerous in the game of mtg because you could end up saying something wrong. So he Gifts EoT for 2 Wrath cards, a Snappy, and a Noxious Revival. I give him Snap and Revival. He Revivals the Supreme Verdict, then casts it the next turn. I put the Spider Umbra in the graveyard to his dismay. Then on my turn I swing for lethal. I felt a bit badly, but I feel I answered truthfully. I would have let him take it back if he wanted, but he wouldn't do that. He's too competitive, like myself, to give himself a takeback. He showed me that he had in his hand an out to the Umbra, but he just didn't know. You would be surprised how many people don't know rulings with Bogle cards. Some people even attack fliers into a creature with Reach (Spider Umbra).

Did you mean that he Revival'd the Wrath of God because he thought its "no regen" clause stopped totem armor? Or did he think that you didn't have a totem armor enchant based on what you had said?

If he didn't realize totem armor and regeneration are separate things, that's absolutely a rules issue on his side and you're not responsible for that. I wouldn't have even let him take it back, personally. Rules are rules. Sometimes it sucks, but you at least learn the lesson. I wouldn't take it back myself either if I were him, because what good does that do me in the long term? I've been on both sides of that coin many times.

If he thought you didn't have any totem-armor enchants on the creature and that his wrath was "good to go" purely because of the technicality of the question, I feel like that was a little advantageous. In this case, I would've asked him to clarify what he meant by his question, and held him to his actions if he doubled down on "regeneration" specifically. If he instead demonstrated that his question was related in some way to totem armor in general, such as asking if any enchants would protect the creature from a sweeper, then I would've told him I had totem armor enchants and suggest that he read them if he needed further clarification. I would not, however, explain the ability unless explicitly asked, and obviously I wouldn't explain that Wrath doesn't prevent totem armor (again, unless directly asked). That's a separate issue.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

No, Amulet players have been around for along time. At my LGS even before that, before Mathias Hunt, there was another guy who played what he named, "Karoo." He played 2 Modern decks - Foil Mono White Death and Taxes to be serious and Summer Bloom to have fun. I know it sounds funny, knowing what we know about the competitiveness of the 2 decks, lol. He didn't have Hive Mind, but he had many of the same parts. He didn't have the lands all right; for example, he used Kessig Wolf Run over Sunhome. I think he played 3 Khalni Garden, but I can't remember other differences since it's been so long.

Then there was the guy I was talking about. It was a bit odd because he wasn't known to be a super good player. He was merely average, but he KILLED with Summer Bloom, more refined now that Mathias Hunt had run it at a Pro Tour. That should have been a clue to me how good the deck was, but I always just thought of him as getting lucky. (not a good way to think, I know)

I've probably been to over 100 GPs in my life, sadly of which fewer than 10 have been Modern unfortunately. You're definitely right about the fact that a GP goer is going to have advantages over most FNM warriors. Good way to say it. I can be spikey at times, but if I am doing very well with a "not so good deck," I'll keep jamming it. If there is a Tier 0 deck like Hogaak or Eldrazi, I'll switch to that immediately. I'm not turning down essentially playing a Legacy deck vs. a Modern deck when prizes are on the line.

*Just realized you were talking about the Esper Control player. He moved on to Splinter Twin and then Delver variants.

Yeah, I just am enamored with the Glass Cannon feel. But I also do love Toolbox decks. I remember playing against Pod players that normally would get destroyed by me, making games and matches so close due to extreme technical play and deck choices. I respected that and even though I only played Pod a bit, when CoCo came out, I jumped on that for quite a long time. I enjoyed Kiki Chord a bunch too! I just didn't win enough with it to justify playing it longer.

The player in question believed that if it couldn't regenerate, then it couldn't come back. I don't think he knew the difference between regeneration and totem armor, even as good a player he is, most people don't even want to read Bogles cards. I doubt there's any player who knows all of the rulings and intricacies of Bogles unless they've played the deck for at least a bit. I felt badly because FNM is about take backs and I was willing to do it. But I didn't offer it; I'm not going to offer it. If we have some unspoken agreement to play Comp REL, I'm fine with that. I don't do take backs myself, ever. I didn't lie. I just felt badly because he technically could have beaten me if he had read the card or I had given extra information, "no, it does not have regeneration, but if it dies, the totem armor goes to the yard instead." That's just the way I am, naturally. I don't give extra information ever and I don't help opponents with their own triggers.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope


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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match 3 is up. :)
That match 2 vs. Tron was insane! I feel like that first game is easier to play online in some ways (not the clicking of course) for a few reasons. When I've done turns like that, trying to think of all of the opponent's outs, the best plays for me, and how to give myself the best shot at winning, it often takes me around 5-7 minutes. Most opponents give fits at this time, lol. Meanwhile, I'm trying to do the best plays and probably get it all right in that similar situation maybe 1 out of every 3 times. That is a big problem I have; being ahead and giving the opponents more outs to win. Most of the times it doesn't matter, but I'd rather play as if it did since it could HAVE mattered. You did a great job here. I know I would have tried to get Ghost Quarter, but it's pretty funny that the opponent played the land that I would have Ghost Quartered the next turn, lol. :grin:

Match 2 was rough. Those prowess dudes get big fast! I told people that Dragon Sprite is actually pretty insane, but they don't believe me. That last game would have been interesting if they didn't have that Remand. The Sprite Dragon got to 11/11, so they probably would have had lethal anyway. Obviously they still play the card; I'm just saying that was an insane showing by their deck.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match 3 is up. :)
That match 2 vs. Tron was insane! I feel like that first game is easier to play online in some ways (not the clicking of course) for a few reasons. When I've done turns like that, trying to think of all of the opponent's outs, the best plays for me, and how to give myself the best shot at winning, it often takes me around 5-7 minutes. Most opponents give fits at this time, lol. Meanwhile, I'm trying to do the best plays and probably get it all right in that similar situation maybe 1 out of every 3 times. That is a big problem I have; being ahead and giving the opponents more outs to win. Most of the times it doesn't matter, but I'd rather play as if it did since it could HAVE mattered. You did a great job here. I know I would have tried to get Ghost Quarter, but it's pretty funny that the opponent played the land that I would have Ghost Quartered the next turn, lol. :grin:
Interestingly enough, I never considered a GQ line before the Sundering Titan hit play. I also would've GQ'd mine probably, since that's generally my preference for literally no reason at all, so they may not have had Tron. I also think I could've safely ignored the Wurmcoil until next turn, since I'd have doul. Here's the line I think is best in hindsight:

Cast First Titan exactly the same way (untapped Forest and Garenbrig, tapped Garenbrig, SimicG in hand, 2 Amulets, 1 land drop+Scout activation remaining). Etb gets TWest and GQ, floating 1UU and leaving the GQ in play untapped. Play SimicG (1GGUUUU floating), pick up and transmute TWest for SPact (GGUU floating, 5 lands in play -- tapped SimicG, tapped Garenbrig, untapped Forest, untapped GQ, untapped Garenbrig). Pact for and cast Titan using the mana and the untapped Garenbrig, search for Valakut and Vesuva (copying GQ). Point all Valakut Triggers at Karn and kill it, GQ the Mine and Plant. This leaves them with only a Wurmcoil, no possible Tron, and no outs. :)

Edit: In fact, I think there's a possibility to play a THIRD Titan that turn, due to the unused Tribe-Scout activation.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Match 3 is up. :)
That match 2 vs. Tron was insane! I feel like that first game is easier to play online in some ways (not the clicking of course) for a few reasons. When I've done turns like that, trying to think of all of the opponent's outs, the best plays for me, and how to give myself the best shot at winning, it often takes me around 5-7 minutes. Most opponents give fits at this time, lol. Meanwhile, I'm trying to do the best plays and probably get it all right in that similar situation maybe 1 out of every 3 times. That is a big problem I have; being ahead and giving the opponents more outs to win. Most of the times it doesn't matter, but I'd rather play as if it did since it could HAVE mattered. You did a great job here. I know I would have tried to get Ghost Quarter, but it's pretty funny that the opponent played the land that I would have Ghost Quartered the next turn, lol. :grin:
Interestingly enough, I never considered a GQ line before the Sundering Titan hit play. I also would've GQ'd mine probably, since that's generally my preference for literally no reason at all, so they may not have had Tron. I also think I could've safely ignored the Wurmcoil until next turn, since I'd have doul. Here's the line I think is best in hindsight:

Cast First Titan exactly the same way (untapped Forest and Garenbrig, tapped Garenbrig, SimicG in hand, 2 Amulets, 1 land drop+Scout activation remaining). Etb gets TWest and GQ, floating 1UU and leaving the GQ in play untapped. Play SimicG (1GGUUUU floating), pick up and transmute TWest for SPact (GGUU floating, 5 lands in play -- tapped SimicG, tapped Garenbrig, untapped Forest, untapped GQ, untapped Garenbrig). Pact for and cast Titan using the mana and the untapped Garenbrig, search for Valakut and Vesuva (copying GQ). Point all Valakut Triggers at Karn and kill it, GQ the Mine and Plant. This leaves them with only a Wurmcoil, no possible Tron, and no outs. :)

Edit: In fact, I think there's a possibility to play a THIRD Titan that turn, due to the unused Tribe-Scout activation.
I didn't want to say it, but I would have done the 3rd Titan and ended on Ghost Quartering the Urza land that was on the far left. I would have lost the game that you won. I can't remember which one it was, but they played another one the next turn, so I wouldn't have been able to pay double Pact. I often get too greedy and go for stuff like that (triple Titan) when there is no need to. My reasoning would be that I still have 1 more Titan and Field of the Dead to win with if this doesn't work.

Your line was definitely better than mine and if you were able to double Ghost Quarter, which I may not have realized, that locks down the door on shenanigans. Damn, that was a crazy turn! Whenever I come back to this deck, it always takes more of a relearning curve than other decks I play, lol.

It was actually such a crazy turn that I think your opponent misplayed as well. They thought you were dead to not paying 2GG. And they destroyed 4 lands, which I'm pretty sure they could have destroyed the final Valakut since all your lands are all types. Maybe I'm missing something? Sundering Titan is not the winning line for them. Maybe Ensnaring Bridge and the lack of Witchbane Orb made the Sundering Titan the best line? I don't know.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

Next match is up, and it's a fun one! I also made a discussion video with my good friend BaileeCakes about the companion errata over on his channel, which you can find via an announcement vid on my channel, so you should check those out too. There's a not-so-secret easter egg in my announcement video too. :)

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Next match is up, and it's a fun one! I also made a discussion video with my good friend BaileeCakes about the companion errata over on his channel, which you can find via an announcement vid on my channel, so you should check those out too. There's a not-so-secret easter egg in my announcement video too. :)
I watched your video and I'm watching the BaileeCakes/Red_Faced_Menace vid right now.

But I can't figure out what the secret easter egg is. Is it the UR Twin deck above? Are you play testing it for some reason?
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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TheAnnihilator
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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
Next match is up, and it's a fun one! I also made a discussion video with my good friend BaileeCakes about the companion errata over on his channel, which you can find via an announcement vid on my channel, so you should check those out too. There's a not-so-secret easter egg in my announcement video too. :)
I watched your video and I'm watching the BaileeCakes/Red_Faced_Menace vid right now.

But I can't figure out what the secret easter egg is. Is it the UR Twin deck above? Are you play testing it for some reason?
Yeah. I play Kiki sometimes in paper, so I'm just throwing out another "unban twin" meme sort of, since I didn't just want a vid with nothing but me talking haha. Though I do personally think Twin should be unbanned. Maybe I can play some UR Kiki on the channel sometime. :)

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