Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[pzbw7z]

Keep Watch is an interesting card.

[Rframpt]

Don't know if I like Keep Watch would have a slot in any of my list. Three mana is a bit too much and don't it is as big an impact you would like for Varina

[pzbw7z]

Don't know if I like Keep Watch would have a slot in any of my list. Three mana is a bit too much and don't it is as big an impact you would like for Varina

It's an instant and it doesn't care whose creatures are attacking, so it's better than jank like Pact of the Serpent. You may still be right, but I'm going to give it a try. BTW, it's a common. I got mine for $0.10.

I ran across another interesting card today; Stronghold Assassin. Why have I never heard of this? It's three mana, doesn't do anything the turn it comes down, but it still seems playable in a casual deck - especially a battlecruiser kind of deck. My build is certainly not a battlecruiser build and I'm not sold on this guy, but it's intriguing.

[Rframpt]

Don't know if I like Keep Watch would have a slot in any of my list. Three mana is a bit too much and don't it is as big an impact you would like for Varina

It's an instant and it doesn't care whose creatures are attacking, so it's better than jank like Pact of the Serpent. You may still be right, but I'm going to give it a try. BTW, it's a common. I got mine for $0.10.

I ran across another interesting card today; Stronghold Assassin. Why have I never heard of this? It's three mana, doesn't do anything the turn it comes down, but it still seems playable in a casual deck - especially a battlecruiser kind of deck. My build is certainly not a battlecruiser build and I'm not sold on this guy, but it's intriguing.

I think Stronghold Assassin is indeed a nice card, with some amazingly creepy art. My reason for not having it in my list is that my Meta is very black mana leaning and it would likely not have much of an effect. However, I can see a build where you can make good use of it along with Faces of the Past

[toctheyounger]

I like Keep Watch for making a Varina loot on an empty hand result in you keeping something in your grip. That's a really nice plus. It's probably all I see that'd make it worthwhile, but that's certainly not nothing. Of course, Kindred Discovery is just disgusting in the deck and does that, and more, to the point you're in danger of decking yourself. The extra 2 mana is so worth it. It's getting another reprint too if you want an Eldraine style copy.

On the topic of Eldraine, Lich-Knights' Conquest isn't a terrible reanimation option. Beseech the Mirror is interesting at least, although it's a big step down from any of the tried and true tutors. Still, if you're not into hard tutors at the top tier of the format I think this is good. It free casts our altars, which is real nice.

[pzbw7z]

Beseech the Mirror seems designed for treasure decks. Any deck that focuses heavily on tokens could possibly profit as well. I might try it if one falls into my lap.

[toctheyounger]

Beseech the Mirror seems designed for treasure decks. Any deck that focuses heavily on tokens could possibly profit as well. I might try it if one falls into my lap.

Yeah I mean I get a fair few tokens going if I draw into Headless Rider or Stairwell or Infestation. That said I'm happy with my tutor package as it stands, I don't really think I need more. If anything, maaaybe Mystical Tutor but I'm not actively searching for it.

[pzbw7z]

If Beseech the Mirror allowed 5-MV spells, it would be an auto-include. So close. . .

[Rframpt]

I think if Beseech the Mirror had the same text but allowed you to cast a 5 mana value card that would be too good. The mana restrictions on the cards hardly matter nowadays as treasures and a wide range of dual lands allow you to create any type of mana.
Now I am excited for the Lich-Knights' Conquest. Though it likely feels more like a win-more card akin to Empty the Laboratory and will surely rot in my hand when I am on an empty board. Still. Cards looks nice and hopefully Eldraine can have some more Zombies thrown in now that the rifts have been somewhat opened between the planes

[devilcatz]

I find 1BBB harder to cast. It works great in Krikk though! 1 mana tutor.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah that's a beating in Krrik for sure!

[pzbw7z]

Maybe we do want Beseech the Mirror; Living End, anyone?

I think we'd need a little more, since Living End kind of blows without BtM here. I'm sure we'll see some more shenanigans.

[pzbw7z]

Add Ancestral Vision and Restore Balance to the Beseech the Mirror shenanigan pile. I think it's starting to get interesting. Sadly, the price of the thing seems to be spiking already.

Upon reflection, I'm not sure these sorts of tricks are worthwhile in Commander as these cards are pretty bad without a way to cheat them in. One card probably isn't enough to justify them.

[toctheyounger]

Add Ancestral Vision and Restore Balance to the Beseech the Mirror shenanigan pile. I think it's starting to get interesting. Sadly, the price of the thing seems to be spiking already.

Upon reflection, I'm not sure these sorts of tricks are worthwhile in Commander as these cards are pretty bad without a way to cheat them in. One card probably isn't enough to justify them.

I like the Living End trick. And while I don't think Vision and Balance are worth it, Resurgent Belief might be. That said, even without the cheating suspend trick I like being able to get Altars, the specific zombie you need, Liliana, Untouched by Death, Clamp, Repository Skaab to play it again, Tombstone Stairwell, Sevinne's Reclamation, honestly like most of the deck. I think I'm gonna give it a go. And honestly I probably want it in a couple other decks too, Dihada, Binder of Wills at least.

As far as price goes, see how it plays out. Yes, it's going to be busted in Legacy with Gaea's Will and such, tutors in standard are strong, but I'd bet a lot of it is FOMO hype. This isn't like Commander Masters where the packs are so expensive no one wants to crack them, nor is it a premium product that will only get a limited print run. Give it a week post release and the prices should even out a bit. It might still be a bit up there but I doubt it's another The Meathook Massacre scenario.

[pzbw7z]

Assuming a treasure is bargained, you have to go for a four-MV card for Beseech the Mirror to come out ahead of Demonic Tutor. With a Zombie token, it's a little harder to do the math; I'd say the bargain is worse, no pun intended,

Without shenanigans, it is probably - at best - the fourth best B[card] tutor and I think I'm being generous here.

Legacy and Vintage probably won't spike the price, but [card]Gaea's Will is Commander legal too. Standard will drive the price some, but perhaps not like it did in the old days.

Bargain is a cool mechanic, and it's probably for the best that they limited the MV of the card.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, well I guess we're not bargaining treasures here most likely. Chances are it's gonna be a 'crawler, or a Stitcher's Supplier or a clamped creature. Or a Kindred Discovery that's about to deck you. In a vaccuum, I'd say you're probably about right. I'd say Demonic>Vampiric>Diabolic>Imperial>Grim>Beseech, based on current knowledge. Imperial sort of isn't in the running though because it needs more reprints before I even consider it

I just checked my LGS, currently pre-release prices at 52.70 NZD. I honestly don't expect it'll stay there. There's a pretty good chance it'll crack standard a little, it seems like the sort of shenanigan that would. We'll see I guess. My gut feeling is it'll be stronger in practice than it looks on paper. I'd be interested to goldfish it a little, I bet it's similar to Hoarding Broodlord; looks meh, plays bonkers.

[pzbw7z]

Prosper has his eye on Broodlord; I'd have to see what Saw in Half is going for these days. Burnt Offering is probably not a budget buster.

Apparently Saw is fairly reasonable as well. I might have to give it a go, just for the LoLs.

[toctheyounger]

Prosper has his eye on Broodlord; I'd have to see what Saw in Half is going for these days. Burnt Offering is probably not a budget buster.

Apparently Saw is fairly reasonable as well. I might have to give it a go, just for the LoLs.

Broodlord is crazy good, very worth it. The Saw and Offering thing is cool too, and a handy way to just instantly draw half your deck with Peer into the Abyss, but even outside of that if you're running Breach lines it's a really good way to just make your lines work. I've been running it in Dihada, which does Breach/Abdel/Doomsday/Dualcaster combos and it's been amazing. It seems like a stupid combo for the lols but it can really get you there.

[yeti1069]

Yeah, well I guess we're not bargaining treasures here most likely. Chances are it's gonna be a 'crawler, or a Stitcher's Supplier or a clamped creature. Or a Kindred Discovery that's about to deck you.

Bargain is artifact, enchantment, or token. Can't sac a creature to it.

[pzbw7z]

Yeah, well I guess we're not bargaining treasures here most likely. Chances are it's gonna be a 'crawler, or a Stitcher's Supplier or a clamped creature. Or a Kindred Discovery that's about to deck you.

Bargain is artifact, enchantment, or token. Can't sac a creature to it.

Only token creatures.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, well I guess we're not bargaining treasures here most likely. Chances are it's gonna be a 'crawler, or a Stitcher's Supplier or a clamped creature. Or a Kindred Discovery that's about to deck you.

Bargain is artifact, enchantment, or token. Can't sac a creature to it.

I did not notice that. Noted, and I still think it can be made to work. We've got enough fresh and decayed zombie tokens, I'd say most times we're gonna be ok.

[devilcatz]

Legion Loyalty is costly but is awesome. Myriad = Massive ETBs zombies. Massive Varina triggers!

Unlikely to be cast much. Lol.

[pzbw7z]

Legion Loyalty is costly but is awesome. Myriad = Massive ETBs zombies. Massive Varina triggers!

Unlikely to be cast much. Lol.

I don't think the myriad tokens will trigger Varina, Lich Queen . They don't actually attack, they are created attacking.

EtB triggers for sure, though.

[Rframpt]

Yeah, Legion Loyalty is a great card if you want to create a multitude of ETB triggers. Given that these tokens are generated tapped and attacking the moment attack trigger could happen has already passed

[devilcatz]

Oh.. no triggers. Sighs.