The Shattered Realm: Creative

[Krishnath]

I'm game for it, but if we do opt for this, I believe (and it's not necessarily a bad thing) we will have to put some work into fleshing out the look, characteristic traits, and etc etc of these races, as we don't have a huge amount to go on at the moment.

So I think having these three species correspond to the three main levels of the world is brilliant, but in doing so we might have to spend more time on figuring out what they look like and behave, as compared to a more established creature type. Which is completely fine, just something to be aware of.

I do like the fact these three races are intertwined with each other and the plane, and I'm starting to think not having a race that flies like the Aven be one of the five major creature types makes things more exciting, with the bridges and mounts and so on. If flying is potentially dangerous (or a rite of passage for some Viashino) it could allow for more entertaining stories I feel.

As I see it, and anyone is free to disagree with me on this, is that while one species may be the primary species in their respective colors, they should not be the only sapient species. If we make a large set (and we really should), there is plenty of space for other races. While Viashino may be the focus sapient species in the set, it doesn't mean we couldn't have goblins, kobolds, or orcs for example. And it would be the same with other colors.

And some species could easily show up in multiple colors, such as Aven. Aven makes perfect sense in both blue and white, and if we have say seven Aven split between those colors, and eight or so monowhite Soltari, Aven still have a big presence, it's just split between two colors. It could be similar with any of the races, with the number of cards may be similar to the number of each of the primary races, but just split between multiple colors. Thus, if we want a race in the set, but want them in smaller number to show that they are less common, we simply reduce the total number of that creature in the set. Say we want goblins, but we don't want them as the primary race for red, we reduce the number of them to four or five (and possibly split them between two colors, such as Red and Green or Red and Black.)

This allows us to have a large number of races without forcing ourselves into doing a tribal set. (Not that tribal sets can't be fun, just look at Ikoria).

[Venedrex]

I'm game for it, but if we do opt for this, I believe (and it's not necessarily a bad thing) we will have to put some work into fleshing out the look, characteristic traits, and etc etc of these races, as we don't have a huge amount to go on at the moment.

So I think having these three species correspond to the three main levels of the world is brilliant, but in doing so we might have to spend more time on figuring out what they look like and behave, as compared to a more established creature type. Which is completely fine, just something to be aware of.

I do like the fact these three races are intertwined with each other and the plane, and I'm starting to think not having a race that flies like the Aven be one of the five major creature types makes things more exciting, with the bridges and mounts and so on. If flying is potentially dangerous (or a rite of passage for some Viashino) it could allow for more entertaining stories I feel.

As I see it, and anyone is free to disagree with me on this, is that while one species may be the primary species in their respective colors, they should not be the only sapient species. If we make a large set (and we really should), there is plenty of space for other races. While Viashino may be the focus sapient species in the set, it doesn't mean we couldn't have goblins, kobolds, or orcs for example. And it would be the same with other colors.

And some species could easily show up in multiple colors, such as Aven. Aven makes perfect sense in both blue and white, and if we have say seven Aven split between those colors, and eight or so monowhite Soltari, Aven still have a big presence, it's just split between two colors. It could be similar with any of the races, with the number of cards may be similar to the number of each of the primary races, but just split between multiple colors. Thus, if we want a race in the set, but want them in smaller number to show that they are less common, we simply reduce the total number of that creature in the set. Say we want goblins, but we don't want them as the primary race for red, we reduce the number of them to four or five (and possibly split them between two colors, such as Red and Green or Red and Black.)

This allows us to have a large number of races without forcing ourselves into doing a tribal set. (Not that tribal sets can't be fun, just look at Ikoria).

Yeah I agree. Having a couple sentient species is a good plan, and I think we should. Like you say, having some Aven, maybe Kobolds, or Orcs/Goblins and other creature types will be great for filling out the plane as a whole.

[dangerousdice]

I like it!

[Legend]

White: Soltari
Blue: Thalakos
Black: Dauthi

This strongly suggests an arc. Is this to be an arc set or will Esper Shadow be like Mardu Knights was in Thrones of Eldraine?

[void_nothing]

This strongly suggests an arc. Is this to be an arc set or will Esper Shadow be like Mardu Knights was in Thrones of Eldraine?

As noted earlier these races would not have shadow (or have twisted bodies) if they didn't live in the Rathi Shadows specifically.

[dangerousdice]

Idea: the elves worship a lolth equivelant, who taught them how to tame the spiders and survive better.

also, is this set going to be based around mono-color, color pairs, wedges, or something else?

[Venedrex]

This strongly suggests an arc. Is this to be an arc set or will Esper Shadow be like Mardu Knights was in Thrones of Eldraine?

As noted earlier these races would not have shadow (or have twisted bodies) if they didn't live in the Rathi Shadows specifically.

Affirmative. I think developing these creature types into fully realized versions of what they would have been before being sucked into the "Shadow Realm?" is something we can do.

Idea: the elves worship a lolth equivelant, who taught them how to tame the spiders and survive better.

also, is this set going to be based around mono-color, color pairs, wedges, or something else?

That is an excellent question. I guess we'll have to see what everyone thinks about that. Maybe once we get a little more of a feel for the world, a sense of how the set should be themed that will start to take shape.

[void_nothing]

I'd caution against too much talk about a multicolor theme or whatnot in this thread/at this stage. Obviously there's no way to not have a LITTLE mechanical talk in the Creative thread but I'd like to, as much as possible, stick to flavor and storyline only.

[Venedrex]

I'd caution against too much talk about a multicolor theme or whatnot in this thread/at this stage. Obviously there's no way to not have a LITTLE mechanical talk in the Creative thread but I'd like to, as much as possible, stick to flavor and storyline only.

That is a good plan. At some point I can post a new thread for set mechanics and such, perhaps after the gist of the world starts coming together a bit more. We can start getting a bit of a broad overview of the plane itself from this thread, before starting to see how that would look in terms of themes and mechanics in another thread.

[Feyd_Ruin]

Thoughts on secondary races?

Humans, Elves, and Aven mentioned.
Goblins or Kobolds?
Dragons? (Assuming so with Viashino?)
Insect-folk? (Lika Nantuko or Kraul. Definitely room for something new here)
Harpys?
Horrors? (has only been seen in low numbers for a while)
Humonculus (servants of Thalakos)?
Leonin?
New Race X? (All this talk about spiders... spider-folk?)
Humonculus?

(I might really want Humonculus, for obvious reasons)

[void_nothing]

I always like replacing Goblins with something else as a way to distinguish a plane, tbqh. I would like Kobolds but they might be too associated with being 0/1 to use properly. Maybe a more sapient form of Devils?

Surely some of our humanoids should be flyers besides the aven. We could have a civilized version of Harpies/Sirens, or Faeries.

--

One of my preferred ways to distinguish this plane from Zendikar would be with stable civilizations/cities, another would be airships.

--

I do very much like the idea of "normal" Soltari, Thalakos, and Dauthi, which seems to be pretty popular. I'd like to flesh out what their whole deal is. The only one of the shadowtribes that we really knew about their culture was the Soltari and the details we got like the position of Soltari Emissary and the holy scripture Tales of Life is all predicated on their existence in the Shadows. Given the notion that Shadow Rider is one of the Dominarian breed of Dauthi I think it would be cool to make Dauthi civilization into a haughty, aristocratic, chivalrous culture - somewhat like Innistradi Vampires without the out-and-out predatory nature. This background would make their devolution on Rath seem tragic because an extremely proud and self-controlled people would be robbed of all dignity, turned into mindless and deformed killers, just as purely chaotic evil as the Soltari had perhaps portrayed them as.

[Venedrex]

Thoughts on secondary races?

Humans, Elves, and Aven mentioned.
Goblins or Kobolds?
Dragons? (Assuming so with Viashino?)
Insect-folk? (Lika Nantuko or Kraul. Definitely room for something new here)
Harpys?
Horrors? (has only been seen in low numbers for a while)
Humonculus (servants of Thalakos)?
Leonin?
New Race X? (All this talk about spiders... spider-folk?)
Humonculus?

(I might really want Humonculus, for obvious reasons)

I think all of these are good ideas. I'm partial to Kobolds myself, Humans I think are probably a given, but who knows maybe this is the one plane where there are enough humanoid creature types to not need them. Aven could fit well on the plane. I suspect Elves work on almost any plane. Dragons are always cool.

I always like replacing Goblins with something else as a way to distinguish a plane, tbqh. I would like Kobolds but they might be too associated with being 0/1 to use properly. Maybe a more sapient form of Devils?

Surely some of our humanoids should be flyers besides the aven. We could have a civilized version of Harpies/Sirens, or Faeries.

--

One of my preferred ways to distinguish this plane from Zendikar would be with stable civilizations/cities, another would be airships.

--

I do very much like the idea of "normal" Soltari, Thalakos, and Dauthi, which seems to be pretty popular. I'd like to flesh out what their whole deal is. The only one of the shadowtribes that we really knew about their culture was the Soltari and the details we got like the position of Soltari Emissary and the holy scripture Tales of Life is all predicated on their existence in the Shadows. Given the notion that Shadow Rider is one of the Dominarian breed of Dauthi I think it would be cool to make Dauthi civilization into a haughty, aristocratic, chivalrous culture - somewhat like Innistradi Vampires without the out-and-out predatory nature. This background would make their devolution on Rath seem tragic because an extremely proud and self-controlled people would be robbed of all dignity, turned into mindless and deformed killers, just as purely chaotic evil as the Soltari had perhaps portrayed them as.

Making the Dauthi refined and noble is a neat idea, it would be fun to surprise people who go: "Oh there is a species living on the lower levels of the plane in the dark?" "They must be evil monsters." Then go, surprise! they're actually noble people and have an awesome secret empire. I'm not saying no to the idea of some sick Shadow Knights (pun fully intended) even though we're not bringing back Shadow. It's fun to flip the idea of going down as being a bad thing on its head, and make it so that the Dauthi are just hiding from the annoying commoners above them.

[Krishnath]

Thoughts on secondary races?

Humans, Elves, and Aven mentioned.
Goblins or Kobolds?
Dragons? (Assuming so with Viashino?)
Insect-folk? (Lika Nantuko or Kraul. Definitely room for something new here)
Harpys?
Horrors? (has only been seen in low numbers for a while)
Humonculus (servants of Thalakos)?
Leonin?
New Race X? (All this talk about spiders... spider-folk?)
Humonculus?

(I might really want Humonculus, for obvious reasons)

I think a few Humonculus serving in blue sounds like a good idea, this again would be something that differentiates it from the obvious Zendikar parallels. This could also be used to imply that the Thalakos of the setting are refined sages, scholars, and mages. Which would make their descent into madness in the Shadowrealm of Rath all the more tragic.

I always like replacing Goblins with something else as a way to distinguish a plane, tbqh. I would like Kobolds but they might be too associated with being 0/1 to use properly. Maybe a more sapient form of Devils?

Surely some of our humanoids should be flyers besides the aven. We could have a civilized version of Harpies/Sirens, or Faeries.

--

One of my preferred ways to distinguish this plane from Zendikar would be with stable civilizations/cities, another would be airships.

--

I do very much like the idea of "normal" Soltari, Thalakos, and Dauthi, which seems to be pretty popular. I'd like to flesh out what their whole deal is. The only one of the shadowtribes that we really knew about their culture was the Soltari and the details we got like the position of Soltari Emissary and the holy scripture Tales of Life is all predicated on their existence in the Shadows. Given the notion that Shadow Rider is one of the Dominarian breed of Dauthi I think it would be cool to make Dauthi civilization into a haughty, aristocratic, chivalrous culture - somewhat like Innistradi Vampires without the out-and-out predatory nature. This background would make their devolution on Rath seem tragic because an extremely proud and self-controlled people would be robbed of all dignity, turned into mindless and deformed killers, just as purely chaotic evil as the Soltari had perhaps portrayed them as.

As for other flying races, i really like the thought of Faeries, they can easily be adapted into all colors with a little effort, even though the red and green versions would either not be flying (they could get pseudoflying in the form of reach if nothing else), or have their flying members at higher rarities. I would consider flying at most a bend for those colors, as they are both tertiary in the ability (unless it is large flyers in red's case), so a few flying green creatures shouldn't be a problem in a set which's worldbuilding implies mobility. Until WotC did it in Eldraine (and did it well), I would never have expected mono white faeries to work, but it does.

I am thinking something similar to this for green:

Faerie Webrunner 1G
Creature - Faerie Scout
2/1
Reach

(This is just an example for proof of concept and not necessarily a card for the set.)

Thoughts on secondary races?

Humans, Elves, and Aven mentioned.
Goblins or Kobolds?
Dragons? (Assuming so with Viashino?)
Insect-folk? (Lika Nantuko or Kraul. Definitely room for something new here)
Harpys?
Horrors? (has only been seen in low numbers for a while)
Humonculus (servants of Thalakos)?
Leonin?
New Race X? (All this talk about spiders... spider-folk?)
Humonculus?

(I might really want Humonculus, for obvious reasons)

I think all of these are good ideas. I'm partial to Kobolds myself, Humans I think are probably a given, but who knows maybe this is the one plane where there are enough humanoid creature types to not need them. Aven could fit well on the plane. I suspect Elves work on almost any plane. Dragons are always cool.

I always like replacing Goblins with something else as a way to distinguish a plane, tbqh. I would like Kobolds but they might be too associated with being 0/1 to use properly. Maybe a more sapient form of Devils?

Surely some of our humanoids should be flyers besides the aven. We could have a civilized version of Harpies/Sirens, or Faeries.

--

One of my preferred ways to distinguish this plane from Zendikar would be with stable civilizations/cities, another would be airships.

--

I do very much like the idea of "normal" Soltari, Thalakos, and Dauthi, which seems to be pretty popular. I'd like to flesh out what their whole deal is. The only one of the shadowtribes that we really knew about their culture was the Soltari and the details we got like the position of Soltari Emissary and the holy scripture Tales of Life is all predicated on their existence in the Shadows. Given the notion that Shadow Rider is one of the Dominarian breed of Dauthi I think it would be cool to make Dauthi civilization into a haughty, aristocratic, chivalrous culture - somewhat like Innistradi Vampires without the out-and-out predatory nature. This background would make their devolution on Rath seem tragic because an extremely proud and self-controlled people would be robbed of all dignity, turned into mindless and deformed killers, just as purely chaotic evil as the Soltari had perhaps portrayed them as.

Making the Dauthi refined and noble is a neat idea, it would be fun to surprise people who go: "Oh there is a species living on the lower levels of the plane in the dark?" "They must be evil monsters." Then go, surprise! they're actually noble people and have an awesome secret empire. I'm not saying no to the idea of some sick Shadow Knights (pun fully intended) even though we're not bringing back Shadow. It's fun to flip the idea of going down as being a bad thing on its head, and make it so that the Dauthi are just hiding from the annoying commoners above them.

Humans are a necessity I think, WotC learned that lesson the hard way when they made the humanless block. Players want something they can identify with after all. However, that does not mean that the set needs to focus on humans. Humans also has another advantage, and that is that they are one of the few creature types that can easily fit into any color. Humans, as a species, is also extremely adaptive, having effectively colonized all biomes on earth except the deep sea, and we are working on that. So if there is a species that would adapt to The Shattered Realm with ease, it would be humans.


I like the thought of making the Dauthi aristocratic and chivalrous would be a nice twist, but they are still (primarily, we might make one or two off color members of each primary species, time will tell) black aligned, and as such should have black aligned traits, fortunately there are two black aligned personality traits that work well for an aristocratic society: arrogance and ambition. I propose the following:

The Dauthi are a caste based society, with Nobles ruling over the lower classes (priesthood, merchants, soldiers, commoners, in that order). The Dauthi on all levels of their society tend toward being arrogant, lording whatever advantage they may have over their peers. There is some upward mobility in their society, any ablebodied youngling can apply to join the army for example, and clever members of their empire often become merchants or priests. A few exceptional Dauthi learn actual wizardry, and leave their realm to study with the Thalakos or even further abroad, but never really leaving their arrogance or ambition behind. These Dauthi wizards eventually return to the Empire where they use their abilities to secure a high position in Dauthi society. While all Dauthi are arrogant and ambitious, they still have a sense of honor, and as such backstabbing and murder is a lot rarer than one would expect. A common saying among many other races is "If you earn the respect of a Dauthi, you always have a person you can rely on when things get bad."
The Dauthi is ultimately ruled by an Emperor (or perhaps Empress), a hereditary title, where the primary heir is chosen from the most capable of the current ruler's younger relatives, with the older relatives having an advisory role. The throne is directly served by a cadre of assassins that stand outside of the normal Dauthi social hierachy and are raised to be unquestionably loyal. However, the assassin's true purpose is to protect the throne, not the person upon it, and more than one Dauthi Emperor/Empress have met an unfortunate end when their ambition has endangered the empire.

Note that this is just a suggestion for their society, and as such is not set in stone. If we decide to go this route with them, we can easily expand it to cover more of their society. But the thought of a caste based society that allows for upward (and by extension downward) social mobility is fascinating, and works well with their color alignment.


I still think that Elves would be the best green aligned species, and as I mentioned earlier, the thought of spider riding elves appeal to me. I also like the suggestion of them worshiping a spider goddess, however I do not like the Lolth comparisons that someone made. Looking to the real world for some inspiration, many ancient cultures considered their spider god(dess) a protective entity, and I think that is a better route for us to take with their society. We could even give their spider god multiple aspects: "The patient hunter" for the predatory aspect, "The protective guardian" for the protector aspect, "The weaver" for the crafting aspect, and such. Thoughts on this?


As for other species, we should probably go with things that would work well in multiple colors, the aforementioned Aven for example work well in blue and white (and could potentially even dip into red and/or black). Devils *could* work for red and black, but then again so could goblins, orcs, kobolds, ogres, etc. I don't really feel Devils as a society building species though, I can't help with thinking of them as to malicious and chaotic for that. That is not to say we can't have devils, I just don't think we should use them as something that has a society of any sort.
As we appears to have settled on Viashino as the primary for red, I don't think we should go with the kobolds, most, if not all, people who has ever played D&D see kobolds as small reptilian humanoids, and closely associate them with Dragons, which means there is a lot of overlap between them and the Viashino. And while that is not necessarily true with MTG (Prossh, Skyraider of Kher notwithstanding), they are simply not established enough in MTG to make that distinction (until a one off in Commander Legends, there hadn't been any new Kobolds since Legends.) As such we should probably go in another direction. That said, we should go with what the majority wants.


And on the topic of other races, while I like the idea of Cat people (in green and white perhaps? or green and red?), I'd rather not do Leonin again. WotC's over reliance on Leonin (seriously, since Alara, every new world with cat people have been Leonin) has left a little of a sour taste in my mouth. There have been more cultural variety among Dwarves since their reintroduction than there have been for Cat People in official products, and they've only shown up twice. If we decide to go with cat people, we should probably base them on another of the great jungle cats, like Jaguars or Tigers for example. But that is just my personal opinion. Lol. I miss Cat Warriors.

[folding_music]

I think wotcee have been pushing for reach on Red creatures recently? like this?

I feel like the Viashino here, on their quest to fully bloom into dragons, might have an intermediate stage where they learn (or mutate) to glide, and thus there'd be a hero class of Viashino with natural reach.

giggle I'm mainly excited about that and about the idea of Saprolings with dandelion clocks or open thistledown for heads - this kinda pairs the idea of seeds travelling between floating islands with a creature we already know how to make

edit: Zendikar didn't have faeries, and they're a reliable secondary flying creature type!

[Krishnath]

I think wotcee have been pushing for reach on Red creatures recently? like this?

I feel like the Viashino here, on their quest to fully bloom into dragons, might have an intermediate stage where they learn (or mutate) to glide, and thus there'd be a hero class of Viashino with natural reach.

giggle I'm mainly excited about that and about the idea of Saprolings with dandelion clocks or open thistledown for heads - this kinda pairs the idea of seeds travelling between floating islands with a creature we already know how to make

edit: Zendikar didn't have faeries, and they're a reliable secondary flying creature type!

Reach is now secondary in red (and tertiary in white, although they rarely use it.) And I like that Viashino note, as it allows us to have all three stages of the transformation, possibly at different rarities, but we can come to that when it is time to start developing the cards and design skeleton.

I also really like the Saproling idea, that in turn allows us to have a "race" spanning green and black in the form of Thallids, fungus after all lends itself well to the murkier parts of the plane as well as the floating forests we'll end up having. And it in turn allows us to have a one off flying Thallid in black. Heck, we could even have a Thallid in black that grants flying to Saprolings, which is a fun thought.

Faeries is a great secondary flying race, as I mentioned earlier, it can easily be spread among all the colors if needed.

[caulkwrangler]

Sorry everyone, I only skimmed the thread but I want to offer some thoughts for creative.

Spiders - Make them the primary green species. They are integral to this worlds lore in multiple ways, they offer the most interesting design space and creative direction. Elves would just be other humans in this setting since humans are a rainbow race. We have also never seen a strain of intelligent/cultured spiders to my knowledge which would be pretty cool. Not all of them need be so, it just offers another avenue to explore.

Soltari, Thalakos, Dauthi - Brilliance, Aurora, and Darkness. They are partially elemental creatures corresponding to these concepts that can live anywhere, but are most prominent in the regions where these situations flourish. Thalakos in particular are the "tide" or shift between light and dark (the movement of shadows) who would be most prominent in the Twilight Reefs between Highbright and Tenebrous Deep.

Viashino are social climbers - I love the idea of Viashino being essentially dragon larva, and trying to accrue the status and wealth dragons are renowned for as they mature. It is a good take on red's mercurial nature, rebellious young, staid when mature, or vice versa. Perhaps some Viashino are from respectable families who go rogue. Perhaps some dragons are craven beasts who have forgot the morals of their youth, etc.

Humans will surely build cities - They will also fight for the territories between them, and they can spread horizontally or vertically.

[Feyd_Ruin]

Sometimes a bit of poetic license inspires me. The Indari once ruled this land, but they grew too proud and destroyed themselves in the Great Upheaval. All perished save for three brothers who sought to reclaim the world. The first brother desired wisdom, and he ascended the land for wider vision. The second brother desired knowledge, and stayed to study the realm around him. The third brother desired privilege, and he descended below to build an empire. Thus were the three races of Brisari born: the Soltari of the broken summit, the Thalakos of the twilight crags, and the Dauthi of the gloom trenches. (Not a factual retelling, but the myth of the people. Names just placeholders)

_____

Thought: With the land shattered as a cascade of floating mass, how do we feel about the sun setting/not setting? What if whatever happened screwed the plane/planet up enough that it doesn't actually rotate and have day/night? Instead it has a slight wobble, but the light parts are always light, the twilight area is always semi-lit, etc?

____

I do wonder how much flying/reach we can put into a set? I guess that's something that we can handle mechanically in development though?

____

If we decide to go with cat people, we should probably base them on another of the great jungle cats, like Jaguars or Tigers for example. But that is just my personal opinion. Lol. I miss Cat Warriors.

I do have love of cat warriors, but they feel kind of bland. What about Nishoba? Ogre-sized leopard warriors who live in the colder regions?

____

Faeries, they can easily be adapted into all colors with a little effort

Overly-emotional tricksters who believe in freedom, merriment, and loving life? I've always felt like there was a color better suited for them than blue anyways...

[Venedrex]

Sometimes a bit of poetic license inspires me. The Indari once ruled this land, but they grew too proud and destroyed themselves in the Great Upheaval. All perished save for three brothers who sought to reclaim the world. The first brother desired wisdom, and he ascended the land for wider vision. The second brother desired knowledge, and stayed to study the realm around him. The third brother desired privilege, and he descended below to build an empire. Thus were the three races of Brisari born: the Soltari of the broken summit, the Thalakos of the twilight crags, and the Dauthi of the gloom trenches. (Not a factual retelling, but the myth of the people. Names just placeholders)

_____

Thought: With the land shattered as a cascade of floating mass, how do we feel about the sun setting/not setting? What if whatever happened screwed the plane/planet up enough that it doesn't actually rotate and have day/night? Instead it has a slight wobble, but the light parts are always light, the twilight area is always semi-lit, etc?

____

I do wonder how much flying/reach we can put into a set? I guess that's something that we can handle mechanically in development though?

____

If we decide to go with cat people, we should probably base them on another of the great jungle cats, like Jaguars or Tigers for example. But that is just my personal opinion. Lol. I miss Cat Warriors.

I do have love of cat warriors, but they feel kind of bland. What about Nishoba? Ogre-sized leopard warriors who live in the colder regions?

____

Faeries, they can easily be adapted into all colors with a little effort

Overly-emotional tricksters who believe in freedom, merriment, and loving life? I've always felt like there was a color better suited for them than blue anyways...

Good ideas. On the subject of faeries, there may be a compromise we can reach. All joking aside, I love what everyone has come up with so far. I think having faeries is a smart choice, and as previously mentioned, they can go in every color. I also agree about keeping humans around, I have seen lots of blogatog posts where Maro restates the importance of every set having them since for some weird reason they're super relatable.

[Krishnath]

Sometimes a bit of poetic license inspires me. The Indari once ruled this land, but they grew too proud and destroyed themselves in the Great Upheaval. All perished save for three brothers who sought to reclaim the world. The first brother desired wisdom, and he ascended the land for wider vision. The second brother desired knowledge, and stayed to study the realm around him. The third brother desired privilege, and he descended below to build an empire. Thus were the three races of Brisari born: the Soltari of the broken summit, the Thalakos of the twilight crags, and the Dauthi of the gloom trenches. (Not a factual retelling, but the myth of the people. Names just placeholders)

_____

Thought: With the land shattered as a cascade of floating mass, how do we feel about the sun setting/not setting? What if whatever happened screwed the plane/planet up enough that it doesn't actually rotate and have day/night? Instead it has a slight wobble, but the light parts are always light, the twilight area is always semi-lit, etc?

____

I do wonder how much flying/reach we can put into a set? I guess that's something that we can handle mechanically in development though?

____

If we decide to go with cat people, we should probably base them on another of the great jungle cats, like Jaguars or Tigers for example. But that is just my personal opinion. Lol. I miss Cat Warriors.

I do have love of cat warriors, but they feel kind of bland. What about Nishoba? Ogre-sized leopard warriors who live in the colder regions?

____

Faeries, they can easily be adapted into all colors with a little effort

Overly-emotional tricksters who believe in freedom, merriment, and loving life? I've always felt like there was a color better suited for them than blue anyways...

That is an interesting creation myth for the Soltari, Thalakos, and Dauthi. Of course, it may not be the literal truth, as we have yet to determine if the realm got shattered in some great upheaval, or it just always has been like that.

As for the day/night cycle, I am up for either/or when it comes to it. Not having one does have massive implications for the life on the plane though, such as how to tell the time. (It's kinda hard when there is only one long day). And the name Soltari does seem to implicate sun worship in some form (possibly the Soltari are very religious sun worshipers who are at odds with the Dauthi individualism, which leads to their conflict?)

As many of the drifting land areas are connected by bridges, either built, or connected by webs (and perhaps even plants), the set doesn't really need much more flying or reach than normal to get the point across, giving all the creatures either would kind of make the point of the plane moot. Somewhere between 10 to 25% more should be sufficient to make people say, hey, I see more creatures with these abilities than normal. Of course we can adjust the actual numbers up or down as need be to serve the needs of the set, but that is more of a mechanical discussion than a worldbuilding one.

I friggin' love the Nishoba, but I don't feel they'd be a good fit for the world, after all, they aren't just Ogre sized, they are literally Giant sized. Even the smallest Nishoba (Armor Guardian), is still larger than a Hill Giant, it is literally four times as tall as the Samite Cleric it shares its art with. And that is the smallest Nishoba, they just get larger from there. I do love them though, but they do best in small doses.

As for the Faeries, I kinda like them in all colors, but a focus in blue and red seems reasonable, and it doesn't really prevent one offs in other colors if we'd like.

[Venedrex]

Hmm, we've came up with a lot of ideas for sentient or semi-sentient life on the plane so far, but what about flora and fauna? I guess birds are a shoe-in, and we already mentioned spiders. Flying creatures for mounts has been discussed, however what are we thinking for the animals in the background? Apes? Wolves? Boars? Rats? Bats? Cats?
Send help I can't stop rhyming.

[Feyd_Ruin]

Even the smallest Nishoba (Armored Guardian), is still larger than a Hill Giant

Oof. Yeah, they're bigger than I remember. I was thinking (and thus shooting for) at most twice the size of a normal human. Like, the size that could enter a person's house, but not have a great place to sit. I like the anthropomorphic cat idea, climbing around, but agree with not being Leonin. With our current humans and humanoids, I was thinking we needed something slightly bigger that fills the 3/3 - 5/5 rolls.

Sentient Apes?

flora and fauna? Apes? Wolves? Boars? Rats? Bats? Cats?

It would suggest that much of the world would be devoid of flatlands, and thus horses would be mostly gone. They might be relegated to a larger driftrock nation, or perhaps be a vestigial form of elegance to the Dauthi that serves no real purpose beyond prestige. Unicorns, bisons, and others that need flatland would be between rare and extinct.

Bears, elephants, wurms, and other large animals wouldn't be as adaptable to the environment. Whereas Baloths could become adept at climbing, just like monkeys and apes, etc. Drakes, Saprolings, and Thallids have already been mentioned. Treefolk that have somehow adapted could be very interesting, and help showcase how the plantlife has come to adapt to the world. Leaping Mammals, Elementals, etc. Rain would naturally still occur, so we could have rivers of epic cascading waterfalls, ponds, etc. The larger sea creatures would probably still want to live at the bottom. Flora could be very different if the no-real-nighttime idea is liked.

Just brainstorming outloud.

[Krishnath]

Well, if we think about it logically, most non-agile predators would not fare well in a plane such as this unless they underwent some serious alterations, as such big cats such as Jaguars, Leopards, and Panthers make a good fit, while things like Bears and wolves do not. The creatures need to be good climbers after all. And even then I could see some environmental adaptions, similar to those found in gliding squirrels, with a membrane of skin between the front and back legs, allowing for gliding between various floating areas.
Alternately, we can imagine that they have developed an evolutionary adaption of their front legs that is halfway to bat wings. I.e. They are still powerful climbing and rending limbs like those found on fully terrestrial cats, but that the dewclaw and perhaps one or two of its front toes on the forelimb have extended into a long and foldable extremity with skin stretched between them and the leg of the creature not unlike the wings of a bat. Thus allowing the feline full use of its limbs while climbing and stalking, with the ability to glide should the need arise. Personally I like the latter option as it allows for better movement for a predator. Such cats could be found in all colors but blue if need arises when building the set. But they should be the primary "nonmagical" predator of the plane. We can of course have both gliding and nongliding cat variants.

Apes and monkeys also lend themselves well to a setting like this as they are quite capable climbers. Something the size of a Gorilla should be rare, but things about the size of an Orangutan or Gibbon should be common when it comes to Apes in particular, pretty much any type of monkey should do well in the setting. I could see either in both red and green, I could totally see some form of sapient Ape, not unlike the great apes of Yavimaya existing on the plane.

Rats, mice, and squirrels should be common place as they are all quite adept climbers. If we need a rodent for red/white, I'd go with either the chinchilla or degu. This is just to give us card creation options, if we feel the need to add rodent cards.

Bats should also be quite common, particularly at the lower levels, as they are a good fit for darker areas in general. We could even throw in a few giant versions if we feel the need.

This leaves us with one very glaring hole however: What about cattle? Goats in general are adept climbers (seriously, look up mountain goats), but most other ungulates and other larger herbivores aren't really a good fit as they are terrible climbers. That said, I could see smaller species of antelope and deer/elk fill this role, with larger domesticated ones being used as beasts of burden. I could even see some type of Camelid (possibly Alpaca or Llama based) take up the spot as the primary pack animal and mount for those without access to flying mounts (such as merchant caravans). Camelids also produce wool, milk, and if needed, meat. Wild Camelids, Deer/Elk, Antelopes, and Goats would also work as the primary food source for the above mentioned "gliding cats".

I don't really see canids having much of a presence on the plane, but smaller wild canids such as foxes and jackals could work and fill the scavenger role. I could even see Hyenas on the plane, all are opportunistic predators and would make use of the natural and unnatural connections between the floating areas.

Since there is a lack of oceans on the plane, I won't really expect much in the way of purely aquatic life, but as other worlds have shown us, the sky is an ocean, so things like flying squid (Fylamarid) and skywhales are a definite possibility.

Lizards and snakes should be pretty common however, as both have multiple examples of great climbers (and a few leapers). I could even see a few smaller dinosaur species, particularly Pterosaurs (and yes, I am well aware that Pterosaurs aren't dinos, but WotC classifies them as such in context of the game).

As for fantasy creatures, anything with wings should be a shoe-in. Give us Pegasi, Griffins, Manticores, Drakes, Lammasu, Dragons, and what have you. And pretty much any beast that can be adapted to climb, fly, or jump should work well.

Speaking of which: Salamanders and Frogs. Yes, and yes. Both have multiple examples in nature of good climbers, and they can be easily adapted for the setting to have leaping or "floating" capabilities.

I also really like @Feyd_Ruin's suggestion of a treefolk adapted to the plane. Particularly if there is a large forested area somewhere it can call home. Imagine a vast forest spanning multiple floating platforms of various size, held together by a vast network of vines and branches. It would be pretty awesome.

[SecretInfiltrator]

Thought: With the land shattered as a cascade of floating mass, how do we feel about the sun setting/not setting? What if whatever happened screwed the plane/planet up enough that it doesn't actually rotate and have day/night? Instead it has a slight wobble, but the light parts are always light, the twilight area is always semi-lit, etc?

May I as a personal preference request not to do that? The most recent community set I worked on this was Pyrulea, a plane without day-night-cycle and vertically stacked zones with different inhabitants based on Forest Stratification. It fit really well there since Pyrulea as a plane is canonically a Dyson sphere and has heavily forested regions, but I'd just like to not go all the way back to that well just yet. :D

I think with airships we can lean heavily into the "sky is an ocean angle".

I'm not feeling Thallids since they are Fungi and the ideas put forth for dandelion-Saprolings clashes with that (and feels to me like the more inspired idea). Saprolings have proven to be versatile and stand on their own. Maybe we can have a name for the associated plants that's something new.

Ambivalent on Fairies. No need to push them into all colors, but no reason not to have them.

I like Soltari, Thalakos, Dauthi, Viashino and Elves as setting-specific characteristic races for the colors with Human's being their usual hole-fillers and some spots for Goblins, Avens, maybe Jaguar-people (though I actually prefer the non-sapient (gliding?) cat idea so far) and Faeries etc. I think we'll have plenty of non-sapient races as well especially with Spiders, flora, flying mounts, sky-fish, sky-squid, sky-jellyfish (and other fruit of the sky-sea) making that already plenty.

[Krishnath]

I'm not feeling Thallids since they are Fungi and the ideas put forth for dandelion-Saprolings clashes with that (and feels to me like the more inspired idea). Saprolings have proven to be versatile and stand on their own. Maybe we can have a name for the associated plants that's something new.

Fungi in general are actually great for a setting such as this, because they are plant like but don't actually need light to thrive, allowing us to have more flora variation on the lower levels of the plane where light levels are lower. This could be thallids, but it need not be such. But at the same time we don't really need to reinvent the wheel so to speak if we decide to use ambulatory fungi.

[folding_music]

hmm, I went for Saprolings cos they're established, and I love Fallen Empires, and to distinguish between this and Zendikar's Plant tokens, but maybe we could think of a named token that'd still be a Plant creature like Boris Devilboon templated it:

Whirling Windstalks 4g
Creature - Plant
When Whirling Windstalks enters the battlefield, create two 1/1 green Plant creature tokens named Gliderspore.
Defender
0/4

or maybe they could literally be Seed creatures???

can "can't be blocked by creatures with flying" arguably appear on green stuff? It hasn't yet but I'm trying to think of a way to template a tiny seedlike creature which'd get buffeted about by wings too much to be intercepted in the air. red had it for a while but it's an ability that's going unused altogether now. I reckon that if there's a preponderance of flying stuff in this set then you need stubborn inverse flyers too!