Eowyn's Rohirrim and Friends

[pokken]

Is this from play experience with the deck, or theorizing? Triggering Eowyn immediately is very good, yes, but I have had a couple of games where I ran her out without a trigger, and it didn't make a huge negative impact having to wait a turn. Adding 4 hasty power to the table is only really relevant if you have other stuff going on, and Thraben isn't that. Maybe I'm wrong in my assessment, but I just look at it and feel like it's a bad card at any time except on the turn I cast Eowyn. It does have a little synergy with some of the other cards that care about humans ETBing, but I don't think it's so much as to be an auto-include. If I were choosing between the two, I think I'd opt for Worthy Knight, just for it being 2 mana instead of 3.

I have played Thraben Doomsayer in Ephara quite a lot, and it was always exceptionally good - in a slightly more casual deck I would 100% run it.

Remember, it's adding 4 hasted power and bodies that stick around forever, trigger all your other stuff, *and* draw a card.

You won't always have humans, and you won't always want to spend your mana making a human in subsequent turns. Imagine if you say, doomsayer + Mentor of the Meek or something -- you can just sit there and crank out the card advantage without having to commit, and then when it comes time to rebuild you've got a hand full of humans.

Or you can sequence him to trigger your other human/etb abilities multiple times; another +1/+0 to your entire board (or giving another dude doublestrike or whatever).

But being able to just go: Ok, I'm gonna play one enabler, Éowyn, Shieldmaiden, and nothing else, and you have to deal with that before I'm forced to play anything else...that's really good.

Imagine if you go like, Thraben Doomsayer → Éowyn, Shieldmaiden → Kindred Discovery; you're drawing like 5 cards and don't have to commit a single other thing to the board until you want to alpha strike someone with Erkenbrand, Lord of Westfold or whatever.

Or god help you, doomsayer → eowyn → cathars' crusade -- that's like 30 power just by itself

[yeti1069]

Is this from play experience with the deck, or theorizing? Triggering Eowyn immediately is very good, yes, but I have had a couple of games where I ran her out without a trigger, and it didn't make a huge negative impact having to wait a turn. Adding 4 hasty power to the table is only really relevant if you have other stuff going on, and Thraben isn't that. Maybe I'm wrong in my assessment, but I just look at it and feel like it's a bad card at any time except on the turn I cast Eowyn. It does have a little synergy with some of the other cards that care about humans ETBing, but I don't think it's so much as to be an auto-include. If I were choosing between the two, I think I'd opt for Worthy Knight, just for it being 2 mana instead of 3.

I have played Thraben Doomsayer in Ephara quite a lot, and it was always exceptionally good - in a slightly more casual deck I would 100% run it.

Remember, it's adding 4 hasted power and bodies that stick around forever, trigger all your other stuff, *and* draw a card.

You won't always have humans, and you won't always want to spend your mana making a human in subsequent turns. Imagine if you say, doomsayer + Mentor of the Meek or something -- you can just sit there and crank out the card advantage without having to commit, and then when it comes time to rebuild you've got a hand full of humans.

Or you can sequence him to trigger your other human/etb abilities multiple times; another +1/+0 to your entire board (or giving another dude doublestrike or whatever).

But being able to just go: Ok, I'm gonna play one enabler, Éowyn, Shieldmaiden, and nothing else, and you have to deal with that before I'm forced to play anything else...that's really good.

Imagine if you go like, Thraben Doomsayer → Éowyn, Shieldmaiden → Kindred Discovery; you're drawing like 5 cards and don't have to commit a single other thing to the board until you want to alpha strike someone with Erkenbrand, Lord of Westfold or whatever.

Or god help you, doomsayer → eowyn → cathars' crusade -- that's like 30 power just by itself

I'm convinced to try it out. Thank you.

[NZB2323]

I'm wondering if Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker should be in this deck. She doesn't have the greatest synergy with Eowyn, but she is a human who shuts down some infinite combos and discourages people from attacking you and dealing direct damage to you. It can also be protected by Mother of Runes, Deflecting Swat, Flawless Maneuver, Fierce Guardianship, Clever Concealment, and Coppercoat Vanguard.

[pokken]

Hard no on 4 drop derps for me . That's a load of do nothing.

[yeti1069]

I'm wondering if Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker should be in this deck. She doesn't have the greatest synergy with Eowyn, but she is a human who shuts down some infinite combos and discourages people from attacking you and dealing direct damage to you. It can also be protected by Mother of Runes, Deflecting Swat, Flawless Maneuver, Fierce Guardianship, Clever Concealment, and Coppercoat Vanguard.

So far I haven't felt like I've been attacked all that much, since I tend to have the largest board presence, and have felt ok holding back nontoken pieces for blocking until I can power through some big damage with them. I don't know that I'd want to run Michiko here. I feel like, in most of the situations where you'd want the effect, you're dead anyway--many infinites can respond to the sac triggers to stack up their triggers until everyone is going to die, then they don't care if they sac all their permanents, or you're getting an alpha strike coming your way, in which case your triggers disappear when you die.

[yeti1069]

Made a couple of edits, including adding Thraben and Purphoros to the deck.

Just had a game with Lossarnach Captain out, to kind of showcase the value of making a token each turn in terms of triggering Eowyn. The Captain is obviously WAY better than Thraben, but I can see how it would be valuable.

Faced very little interaction, and some slow, janky decks (The Scarab God showed 3 vanilla zombies in the deck from someone else's triggers, so...not great, and not a good measure of the deck, but my slow start snowballed hard. I got Horn of Gondor on Hideaway from Windbrisk. Played Purphoros the next turn and swung with enough tokens to activate the land. I had 13 creatures on the field, which was enough to do 26 damage to everyone off Purph. Table seemed kind of salty, but that was turn 8 vs virtually no interaction.

I do kind of feel like I want 'no max hand size' effects in the deck--I've had a couple of games now where I drew several cards and was having to pitch a bunch (Mass Appeal is a big culprit here, but not the only one), and the deck doesn't have much by way of recursion, so there isn't much value in that.

[NZB2323]

Made a couple of edits, including adding Thraben and Purphoros to the deck.

Just had a game with Lossarnach Captain out, to kind of showcase the value of making a token each turn in terms of triggering Eowyn. The Captain is obviously WAY better than Thraben, but I can see how it would be valuable.

Faced very little interaction, and some slow, janky decks (The Scarab God showed 3 vanilla zombies in the deck from someone else's triggers, so...not great, and not a good measure of the deck, but my slow start snowballed hard. I got Horn of Gondor on Hideaway from Windbrisk. Played Purphoros the next turn and swung with enough tokens to activate the land. I had 13 creatures on the field, which was enough to do 26 damage to everyone off Purph. Table seemed kind of salty, but that was turn 8 vs virtually no interaction.

I do kind of feel like I want 'no max hand size' effects in the deck--I've had a couple of games now where I drew several cards and was having to pitch a bunch (Mass Appeal is a big culprit here, but not the only one), and the deck doesn't have much by way of recursion, so there isn't much value in that.

It says your decklist runs Angel of Glory's Rise, which could be good with a bunch of creatures in the graveyard, but if you're looking to cast more creatures in your hand I'd recommend Urza's Incubator.

I'm also having issues with mana. I played 2 games last night. In the first game I stupidly kept a hand with Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep, Mystic Gate, and Ancient Tomb and never got access to blue or white mana. Game 2 lasted forever as I faced 2 machine gun decks in a Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver with Attrition and Breya, Etherium Shaper. Despite the game lasting forever, I never got more than 5 lands, and one of them I got off a Path to Exile that I cast on my Champion of the Parish in response to a board wipe. I got out a Captain Lannery Storm, but in order to create treasures with her I had to keep swinging and she traded in combat. I run 36 lands and 8 ramp pieces in Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, Herald's Horn, Urza's Incubator, Legion's Landing // Adanto, the First Fort, Knight of the White Orchid, Captain Lannery Storm, and Professional Face-Breaker.

Molten Echoes was able to do work for me though. I cast a Loran of the Third Path off it to destroy The Reality Chip and Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Captain. Creating copies of Frontline Medic and Combat Celebrant with haste the turn they come into play was nice, as was casting Eowryn to create 4 2/2 knights and drawing 2 cards.

However, after Attrition and Breya, Etherium Shaper got rid of all my creatures at the end of the game I was left with a Molten Echoes and Door of Destinies on the battlefield with a Mass Appeal and Visions of Glory in hand with no creatures on the battlefield.

Small sample size, but I'm thinking about adding the talismans back in as they would have been extremely helpful both games. I already have to cut a Frontline Medic as I discovered I'm running 2 of them, and for the other cuts I'm thinking Snapcaster Mage and Odric, Master Tactician. Snap doesn't have enough instants or sorceries to target, even though in theory casting Cyclonic Rift twice sounds nice, and he doesn't have good synergy with Eowyn. Odric, Master Tactician is a nice card to have but it doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play, unlike my other 4 drops in Lossarnach Captain, Éowyn, Fearless Knight, Blade Historian, and Boromir, Gondor's Hope. I guess Hero of Bladehold doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play either, but I think it can be more impactful than Odric, Master Tactician, but could possibly be cut for Smothering Tithe, Dockside Extortionist, or a Jeweled Lotus because I picked one up last night. However I really don't want to run a goblin in a human deck. A dwarf or elf would be okay, but not a goblin.

[yeti1069]

It says your decklist runs Angel of Glory's Rise, which could be good with a bunch of creatures in the graveyard, but if you're looking to cast more creatures in your hand I'd recommend Urza's Incubator.

My only copy is in Ur-Dragon, which needs it more, but it probably would help here.

I like to run at least one or two pieces of recursion in all my decks to have some ability to recover from board wipes, discard, and mill.

Molten Echoes was able to do work for me though. I cast a Loran of the Third Path off it to destroy The Reality Chip and Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Captain. Creating copies of Frontline Medic and Combat Celebrant with haste the turn they come into play was nice, as was casting Eowryn to create 4 2/2 knights and drawing 2 cards.

How'd you get 2 sets of Eowyn triggers? Molten Echoes doesn't remove legendary.

It's a delicate balance of how many set-up pieces to include. With the number of legendary creatures in my deck, I'm not sure I'd want to be running Echoes, although there are some legendaries with valuable ETBs. Still, that's a slot that could be a creature, and I feel like there are enough cards waiting for a slot that are better in and of themselves, than the enchantment. Door of Destinies is kind of the same, and gains no benefit from the tokens you make. I'd rather play Cathar's Crusade if I were going to try for that kind of effect.

However, after Attrition and Breya, Etherium Shaper got rid of all my creatures at the end of the game I was left with a Molten Echoes and Door of Destinies on the battlefield with a Mass Appeal and Visions of Glory in hand with no creatures on the battlefield.

Mass Appeal I think is worth running for its impact, but Visions I've dropped out of consideration for these very situations.

Small sample size, but I'm thinking about adding the talismans back in as they would have been extremely helpful both games. I already have to cut a Frontline Medic as I discovered I'm running 2 of them, and for the other cuts I'm thinking Snapcaster Mage and Odric, Master Tactician. Snap doesn't have enough instants or sorceries to target, even though in theory casting Cyclonic Rift twice sounds nice, and he doesn't have good synergy with Eowyn. Odric, Master Tactician is a nice card to have but it doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play, unlike my other 4 drops in Lossarnach Captain, Éowyn, Fearless Knight, Blade Historian, and Boromir, Gondor's Hope. I guess Hero of Bladehold doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play either, but I think it can be more impactful than Odric, Master Tactician, but could possibly be cut for Smothering Tithe, Dockside Extortionist, or a Jeweled Lotus because I picked one up last night. However I really don't want to run a goblin in a human deck. A dwarf or elf would be okay, but not a goblin.

I think with a 5-mana commander and several 4- and 5-mana creatures ramp is going to be a necessity.

I'd considered Snappy as well, but agree that the deck doesn't have nearly enough targets for it to be worthwhile. It also wants to be playing humans at sorcery speed before combat, and I don't want to end up having to cast Snappy as a vanilla 2/1 just to trigger Eowyn if I haven't other options. I will say that I've liked Narset, Enlightened Exile, even if it is a little high on the curve. It can be a psuedo-Snappy in combat, but steals from any graveyard, casts without having to spend mana, and can also cast any noncreature instead of just instants and sorceries. It can also anthem your team with its mass Prowess.

[pokken]

The Brought Back / Cosmic Intervention package is almost surely great in this deck, esp. since they double as board wipe protection. I'd even think about Faith's Reward / Second Sunrise tbh since if you plop one of those down after a wipe you're almost surely going to win.

(if you're running plains heavy anyway)
Keeper of the Accord is another decent ramp piece. and if your white commit is high, Archaeomancer's Map will put in work.

[NZB2323]

It says your decklist runs Angel of Glory's Rise, which could be good with a bunch of creatures in the graveyard, but if you're looking to cast more creatures in your hand I'd recommend Urza's Incubator.

My only copy is in Ur-Dragon, which needs it more, but it probably would help here.

I like to run at least one or two pieces of recursion in all my decks to have some ability to recover from board wipes, discard, and mill.

Molten Echoes was able to do work for me though. I cast a Loran of the Third Path off it to destroy The Reality Chip and Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Captain. Creating copies of Frontline Medic and Combat Celebrant with haste the turn they come into play was nice, as was casting Eowryn to create 4 2/2 knights and drawing 2 cards.

How'd you get 2 sets of Eowyn triggers? Molten Echoes doesn't remove legendary.

It's a delicate balance of how many set-up pieces to include. With the number of legendary creatures in my deck, I'm not sure I'd want to be running Echoes, although there are some legendaries with valuable ETBs. Still, that's a slot that could be a creature, and I feel like there are enough cards waiting for a slot that are better in and of themselves, than the enchantment. Door of Destinies is kind of the same, and gains no benefit from the tokens you make. I'd rather play Cathar's Crusade if I were going to try for that kind of effect.

However, after Attrition and Breya, Etherium Shaper got rid of all my creatures at the end of the game I was left with a Molten Echoes and Door of Destinies on the battlefield with a Mass Appeal and Visions of Glory in hand with no creatures on the battlefield.

Mass Appeal I think is worth running for its impact, but Visions I've dropped out of consideration for these very situations.

Small sample size, but I'm thinking about adding the talismans back in as they would have been extremely helpful both games. I already have to cut a Frontline Medic as I discovered I'm running 2 of them, and for the other cuts I'm thinking Snapcaster Mage and Odric, Master Tactician. Snap doesn't have enough instants or sorceries to target, even though in theory casting Cyclonic Rift twice sounds nice, and he doesn't have good synergy with Eowyn. Odric, Master Tactician is a nice card to have but it doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play, unlike my other 4 drops in Lossarnach Captain, Éowyn, Fearless Knight, Blade Historian, and Boromir, Gondor's Hope. I guess Hero of Bladehold doesn't do anything the turn it comes into play either, but I think it can be more impactful than Odric, Master Tactician, but could possibly be cut for Smothering Tithe, Dockside Extortionist, or a Jeweled Lotus because I picked one up last night. However I really don't want to run a goblin in a human deck. A dwarf or elf would be okay, but not a goblin.

I think with a 5-mana commander and several 4- and 5-mana creatures ramp is going to be a necessity.

I'd considered Snappy as well, but agree that the deck doesn't have nearly enough targets for it to be worthwhile. It also wants to be playing humans at sorcery speed before combat, and I don't want to end up having to cast Snappy as a vanilla 2/1 just to trigger Eowyn if I haven't other options. I will say that I've liked Narset, Enlightened Exile, even if it is a little high on the curve. It can be a psuedo-Snappy in combat, but steals from any graveyard, casts without having to spend mana, and can also cast any noncreature instead of just instants and sorceries. It can also anthem your team with its mass Prowess.

You if you have out Molten Echoes and cast Éowyn, Shieldmaiden a token enters and both triggers go on the stack. Then you chose one(the token) to leave the battlefield as a game based effect because of the legend rule. Then both triggers resolve.

[pokken]

You if you have out Molten Echoes and cast Éowyn, Shieldmaiden a token enters and both triggers go on the stack. Then you chose one(the token) to leave the battlefield as a game based effect because of the legend rule. Then both triggers resolve.

erm, eowyn's trigger is at the beginning of combat right, so they both aren't there

[yeti1069]

The Brought Back / Cosmic Intervention package is almost surely great in this deck, esp. since they double as board wipe protection. I'd even think about Faith's Reward / Second Sunrise tbh since if you plop one of those down after a wipe you're almost surely going to win.

(if you're running plains heavy anyway)
Keeper of the Accord is another decent ramp piece. and if your white commit is high, Archaeomancer's Map will put in work.

The most vulnerable point for this deck is the turn Eowyn comes down--it's very unlikely we have even 1 mana open, let alone 2-4 to hold up. None of these are going to be helpful in those situations.

Keeper is a decent idea, however, as is the Map.

[yeti1069]

You if you have out Molten Echoes and cast Éowyn, Shieldmaiden a token enters and both triggers go on the stack. Then you chose one(the token) to leave the battlefield as a game based effect because of the legend rule. Then both triggers resolve.

Eowyn is a beginning of combat trigger--it doesn't matter if you make a copy of her earlier in the turn; you won't have both at the point that her ability triggers.

[pokken]

The most vulnerable point for this deck is the turn Eowyn comes down--it's very unlikely we have even 1 mana open, let alone 2-4 to hold up. None of these are going to be helpful in those situations.

While that's true I think it's fairly likely you could foresee that situation and play around a sweeper post-eowyn by holding up 2 mana even if it meant going slower.

But the value add of being able to fetch ramp before Eowyn is fairly high! Even a single ramp off of one fetch and Brought Back accelerates you one, but you can fetch 2 and similarly Cosmic Intervention for up to 4 lands fairly easily.

The most common sequence of CI for me is;
Foretell on 2
cast on 3, play a fetch and crack it, end step it returns and you crack it again,
turn 4 you're up +2 lands

It does require a fetch manabase commitment, but it's worth it in non-green decks imho, especially because CI has huge upside.

[NZB2323]

You if you have out Molten Echoes and cast Éowyn, Shieldmaiden a token enters and both triggers go on the stack. Then you chose one(the token) to leave the battlefield as a game based effect because of the legend rule. Then both triggers resolve.

Eowyn is a beginning of combat trigger--it doesn't matter if you make a copy of her earlier in the turn; you won't have both at the point that her ability triggers.

Damn, you guys are right. I'll probably replace Molten Echoes with Odric, Master Tactician, Smothering Tithe, or Dragonmaster Outcast.

[yeti1069]

You if you have out Molten Echoes and cast Éowyn, Shieldmaiden a token enters and both triggers go on the stack. Then you chose one(the token) to leave the battlefield as a game based effect because of the legend rule. Then both triggers resolve.

Eowyn is a beginning of combat trigger--it doesn't matter if you make a copy of her earlier in the turn; you won't have both at the point that her ability triggers.

Damn, you guys are right. I'll probably replace Molten Echoes with Odric, Master Tactician, Smothering Tithe, or Dragonmaster Outcast.

I think Dragonmaster is only approaching being good in a deck that ramps lands out quickly. Otherwise it's a vanilla 1/1 for 1.

[NZB2323]

Eowyn is a beginning of combat trigger--it doesn't matter if you make a copy of her earlier in the turn; you won't have both at the point that her ability triggers.

Damn, you guys are right. I'll probably replace Molten Echoes with Odric, Master Tactician, Smothering Tithe, or Dragonmaster Outcast.

I think Dragonmaster is only approaching being good in a deck that ramps lands out quickly. Otherwise it's a vanilla 1/1 for 1.

Yeah, I ended up choosing Smothering Tithe because the deck has a lot of card draw, cards that cost 4 or 5 mana, and seems like it always needs mana. This is my updated list:

Decklist

DecklistCMCManaPricesChartsDraw 7

Commander 1

1 Eowyn, Shieldmaiden

Ramp 12

1 Jeweled Lotus

1 Legion's Landing

1 Sol Ring

1 Arcane Signet

1 Talisman of Creativity

1 Talisman of Progress

1 Talisman of Conviction

1 Knight of the White Orchid

1 Urza's Incubator

1 Captain Lannery Storm

1 Professional Face-Breaker

1 Smothering Tithe

Draw 7

1 Weathered Wayfarer

1 Esper Sentinel

1 Herald's Horn

1 Mass Appeal

1 Boromir, Gondor's Hope

1 Vanquisher's Banner

1 Kindred Discovery

Removal 7

1 Path to Exile

1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Westfold Rider

1 Loran of the Third Path

1 Generous Gift

1 Eowyn, Fearless Knight

1 Cyclonic Rift

Protection 7

1 Mother of Runes

1 Frontline Medic

1 Bastion Protector

1 Deflecting Swat

1 Fierce Guardianship

1 Flawless Maneuver

1 Clever Concealment

Eowyn Triggers 5

1 Hero of Precinct One

1 Worthy Knight

1 Thraben Doomsayer

1 Lossarnach Captain

1 Outlaws' Merriment

More Tokens 8

1 Horn of Gondor

1 Hanweir Garrison

1 Adeline, Resplendent Cathar

1 Call the Coppercoats

1 Riders of Rohan

1 Visions of Glory

1 Increasing Devotion

1 Forth Eorlingas!

Buffs 12

1 Impact Tremors

1 Thalia's Lieutenant

1 Coppercoat Vanguard

1 Inspiring Veteran

1 Marshal of Zhalfir

1 Knight Exemplar

1 Combat Celebrant

1 Shared Animosity

1 Blade Historian

1 Door of Destinies

1 Purphoros, God of the Forge

1 Cathars' Crusade

Tutors 2

1 Enlightened Tutor

1 Mystical Tutor

Other 3

1 Champion of the Parish

1 Serra Ascendant

1 Drannith Magistrate

Lands 36

1 Command Tower

1 Cavern of Souls

1 Secluded Courtyard

1 Path of Ancestry

1 Exotic Orchard

1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep

1 Ancient Tomb

1 Eiganjo Castle

1 Flagstones of Trokair

1 Castle Ardenvale

1 Windbrisk Heights

1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity

1 Sea of Clouds

1 Spectator Seating

1 Training Center

1 Flooded Strand

1 Arid Mesa

1 Scalding Tarn

1 Steam Vents

1 Hallowed Fountain

1 Sacred Foundry

1 Raugrin Triome

1 Prairie Stream

1 Irrigated Farmland

1 Sulfur Falls

1 Glacial Fortress

1 Clifftop Retreat

1 Shivan Reef

1 Battlefield Forge

1 Adarkar Wastes

1 Mystic Gate

1 Rugged Prairie

1 Casade Bluffs

1 Island

1 Mountain

1 Plains

Approximate Total Cost:

[pokken]

I flat out do not understand skipping Knight of the White Orchid for Talisman of creativity. that seems just so backward.

[NZB2323]

I flat out do not understand skipping Knight of the White Orchid for Talisman of creativity. that seems just so backward.

I run Knight also! I just forgot to include him, but he's the 12th ramp piece.

[pokken]

I don't think this is a signet deck personally. Like I wouldn't play any. You want to ramp but you want to ramp hard. I think more dowsing dagger and sword of forge and frontier. You want to go from 4-6 not 2-4.

And I can't say enough about the fetch ramp package. If you're budget conscious for sure do something else but it's perfect for this deck.

[yeti1069]

I don't think this is a signet deck personally. Like I wouldn't play any. You want to ramp but you want to ramp hard. I think more dowsing dagger and sword of forge and frontier. You want to go from 4-6 not 2-4.

I don't know about that. Few of the early creatures come with evasion, so getting through with Dowsing Dagger is far from guaranteed, and I don't love relying on a 5-mana ramp piece (over 2 turns) that can blank on a land. If anything, I'd run Sword of the Animist in place of a rock. If the curve were lower, or Eowyn were a mana or two cheaper, I'd strongly consider dropping rocks, but there are enough 4- and 5-drops that I haven't felt like rocks were counter to the game plan.

[pokken]

if you're on rocks I'd try the 3 cmc rocks that tap for two. Worn power stone and coalition relic. Skyclave relic likely also very decent (surviving wipes and having topdeck utility).

That said I think you'd be happier long term without signets in this deck.

the three swords of x and y that ramp are likely to be much better than signets as well (forge frontier, feast famine, hearth and home). I feel like the odds you get through with dowsing dagger are super high though.

Ymmv etc. not my deck. But I've found 5 cmc commanders to be really medium with signet effects.

[NZB2323]

if you're on rocks I'd try the 3 cmc rocks that tap for two. Worn power stone and coalition relic. Skyclave relic likely also very decent (surviving wipes and having topdeck utility).

That said I think you'd be happier long term without signets in this deck.

the three swords of x and y that ramp are likely to be much better than signets as well (forge frontier, feast famine, hearth and home). I feel like the odds you get through with dowsing dagger are super high though.

Ymmv etc. not my deck. But I've found 5 cmc commanders to be really medium with signet effects.

I mean, the deck has lots of 4 drops, so playing a 4 drop like Purphoros, God of the Forge, Door of Destinies, Smothering Tithe, Boromir, Gondor's Hope, Lossarnach Captain, or Outlaws' Merriment turn 3 is pretty nice.

For this reason, I'm wondering if Charming Scoundrel would work well in the deck. You could also save the treasure for later, to play Éowyn, Shieldmaiden turn 4. And then late game you can cycle a land card. The treasure also has some synergy with Captain Lannery Storm and Professional Face-Breaker.

[pokken]

I mean, the deck has lots of 4 drops, so playing a 4 drop like Purphoros, God of the Forge, Door of Destinies, Smothering Tithe, Boromir, Gondor's Hope, Lossarnach Captain, or Outlaws' Merriment turn 3 is pretty nice.

Sure. Better not miss your land drop for 5 though. Playing Worn Powerstone or Coalition Relic and only needing 3 lands and powerstone for your deck to function makes a *lot* more hands keepable and fixes a lot of bad draws.

For this reason, I'm wondering if Charming Scoundrel would work well in the deck

I think it would be very good. The deck basically stops at 5 mana or so and isn't really that mana hungry. I don't think it really needs mana rocks except Sol Ring. Play humans that make mana, and some goodstuff maybe (Smothering Tithe is reasonable for sure).

Every time you draw a frigging talisman instead of a 2 drop to trigger Eowyn or whatever is *thumbsdown*. I went through this with my Varina deck as well. I want *zombies* not mana rocks. Especially not ones that make you take a turn off of making humans.

Oh, that reminds me...Springleaf Drum is going to be a house in this deck, and Honor-Worn Shaku would be likely great as well (in the OP!), if you feel you need to ramp.

Shaku is bananas. Legendary count is like half the deck

[NZB2323]

I mean, the deck has lots of 4 drops, so playing a 4 drop like Purphoros, God of the Forge, Door of Destinies, Smothering Tithe, Boromir, Gondor's Hope, Lossarnach Captain, or Outlaws' Merriment turn 3 is pretty nice.

Sure. Better not miss your land drop for 5 though. Playing Worn Powerstone or Coalition Relic and only needing 3 lands and powerstone for your deck to function makes a *lot* more hands keepable and fixes a lot of bad draws.

For this reason, I'm wondering if Charming Scoundrel would work well in the deck

I think it would be very good. The deck basically stops at 5 mana or so and isn't really that mana hungry. I don't think it really needs mana rocks except Sol Ring. Play humans that make mana, and some goodstuff maybe (Smothering Tithe is reasonable for sure).

Every time you draw a frigging talisman instead of a 2 drop to trigger Eowyn or whatever is *thumbsdown*. I went through this with my Varina deck as well. I want *zombies* not mana rocks. Especially not ones that make you take a turn off of making humans.

Oh, that reminds me...Springleaf Drum is going to be a house in this deck, and Honor-Worn Shaku would be likely great as well (in the OP!), if you feel you need to ramp.

Shaku is bananas. Legendary count is like half the deck

Yeah, I've been looking at other humans to add. I don't know how much people want to make this a tutor, extra turns, cyclonic rift deck but there are some powerful humans that can make it that way. Timestream Navigator can give you extra turns and be searchable with Imperial Recruiter and Recruiter of the Guard, either for the first time or after she goes under your library. Imperial Recruiter's best target is probably Blade Historian, but it can also grab Professional Face-Breaker, and I believe Adeline, Resplendent Cathar? Recruiter of the Guard's best target is probably Lossarnach Captain, and both recruiters can grab Loran of the Third Path.

Sakashima of a Thousand Faces also seems very good to have 2 of Éowyn, Shieldmaiden. And then Spellseeker can search for Cyclonic Rift, Winds of Abandon, Forth Eorlingas!, or even Enlightened Tutor to grab Urza's Incubator, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Shared Animosity, or Kindred Discovery.

The issue I'm having is with adding all these humans I'd probably want to cut Riders of Rohan, but I really don't want to cut that card from a Riders of Rohan deck.