Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[ChocoDude]

I had a feeling folks would be lukewarm on it.

[Eburon]

I had a feeling folks would be lukewarm on it.

That doesn't mean you should feel discouraged from testing it. It is not a bad card, so, who knows, it might be the perfect fit for your deck.

[toctheyounger]

Streets of New Capenna Unified Set Review

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Here we are again, sooner than it ought to be because I....manage my time poorly. Anyway, at least I'm on time with this one. In all honesty, I'm personally not looking at a ton of cards in general from the set, partially because I have a full stable of decks and nothing of the new stuff really does anythign stellar for them, and partially because the set doesn't really call to me. I've never really been into much mafia/organised crime content, so the set hits off centre for me. Anyway, there's not nothing for us, so let's look it over.

Artifacts/Colorless/Lands

• Obscura Storefront - A mildly adjusted Panorama. It's fine in a budget, I don't see any particular need for it though.
• Raffine's Tower - Esper Triome. Very searchable, which is very nice. I don't think it's an auto-include myself, purely because there's something to be said for velocity in this deck. Varina needs creatures in play quickly and entering tapped doesn't help with an already lean manabase. That said, outside of the early game it's either fine for a land drop, or an average to poor rate free draw. Far from unusable, but maybe not an absolute certainty either in the most optimal of lists; mine is not that, so I should probably grab one anyway.

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White

• Depopulate - Replacing itself is nice, and we can be fairly certain we can do that. I think in general though the removal I have is some of the best in the format, so I'm not overly keen on this.
• Halo Fountain - I generally think this is splashy for the sake of splashy. That said, we're swinging every turn if we can at all help it. It's not a great rate for draw, and it's unlikely to ever be used as a win con. Regardless, it could be a cute add if one were so inclined.
• Smuggler's Share - I think this is going to be quite variable game to game in value. I think we can (and do) do better for card draw. Treasure production though is nice. I like it more than Archaeomancer's Map as it'll never turn our Weathered Wayfarer off. So that's nice. I think I'll see where the price lands and go from there, there's every change this is fairly middling.

Blue

• An Offer You Can't Refuse - I've seen a few creators talking about this one as a well costed counter. I think it's not what you want. Giving away treasure seems like a bad trade on most deals unles you're literally stopping the same from ending.
• Wiretapping - I don't think this card is great, but I would like to point out that we can almost definitely get the hideaway trigger straight away. Of course, the lower your curve goes, the less likely you are to get value out of that.
• Swindler's Scheme - It's SO close to Counterbalance, but that last sentence ruins everything.

Black

• Body Count - This is really, really efficient draw for us. It could be a stellar add.
• Cemetery Tampering - Yep, we could trigger this easy too.

Multicolored

• Obscura Ascendancy - Depressingly not for us.
• Void Rend - Yeah, I think this makes it in. Not exiling is a step down from Anguished Unmaking but being uncounterable is really good. I don't think I'll personally have too many issues with color fixing for it, but time will tell. In a similar vein, I'm tossing up Dovin's Veto for the counter suite, purely because every time I've gone to say no recently a stack war starts and I just don't have the depth of control to force through it.

Also, another wee update here:

• Buried Alive
• Champion of the Perished
• Skullclamp
• Putrid Imp
• Lazotep Chancellor

• Noxious Ghoul
• Preordain
• Twilight's Call
• Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
• Sidisi, Undead Vizier

Mostly here just dropping the curve. Champion seems fine, Imp helps me maximize mass reanimation spells, Chancellor gives me bodies to swing, sac or Clamp just for doing what Varina does. Clamp is relatively obvious, very good card draw. Most of our stuff wont die immediately to it, but we've got enough ways to pop the bodies anyway. And finally Buried Alive I think is as much a lubricator as it is anything else. Gets me a Gravecrawler, Repository Skaab or Gary as needed and just a little bit of surety that things run smoothly. Ideally, if I had the money it would be an Intuition for sure, but what are you gonna do? It's still solid.

Mike and Sidisi I'm not overly sad to lose for anything other than flavor reasons. Mike is very good, but he's way too high on the curve here to be worth it now. Sidisi is much the same, and with no real spot reanimation in the deck I don't see a space for them anymore. Preordain was filling in for a low cost zombie, so I feel fine with that being a direct exchange, and Twilight's Call was, I think, the weakest of the mass reanimation spells in the deck. It is getting tight now, but 3 should suffice. Noxious Ghoul I am a bit sad to pull from the deck, but it was getting harder and harder to justify in terms of inclusion for just not doing enough.

So with all of these and the move to lower on the curve, there's still a couple of bits I'm looking for:
Low cost critters like Universal Automaton, Stitcher's Supplier and Tainted Adversary
Maybe Dovin's Veto

And moving to a lower creature count does make things like Empty the Laboratory and possibly Necroduality harder to justify. It feels like they do their best when you're using them to put fat on the board, and with next to no lords and almost no beaters it does bring up the question of whether they fit or not.

[ChocoDude]

Yeah I still have Empty the Lab in there, but I've had it under my "REMOVE???" category for quite some time as yes, there's less heft to benefit from it. I FINALLY have an Overcharged Amalgam coming from Cardsphere that will take EtL's place in the next few days.

[toctheyounger]

Well it's been a few weeks since I got to shuffle up but I got some gameplay in today. Lost 2, won 1, but I totally should've won 2 instead.

Without going into direct gameplay, dropping the curve has been an absolute boon. Even just having 3 to swing with once Varina drops is massive, and I've been able to come up with a variety of lines to close out the game really easily. I've definitely got more to add, some on the way from my LGS already, but I'm still tracking down Universal Automaton and Tainted Adversary.

Skullclamp has been a stone cold killer here, really stoked to have added it. Conversely, Necroduality, having finally got to play it, has been a bit middling. Buried Alive has been good too, but it immediately made me realise how insanely good Intuition would be instead. The last game I played I went off with Gravecrawler and Phyrexian Altar with Corpse Knight, and I could've managed it a solid 2 turns earlier with the latter over the former. Ah well, it's something to aspire to.

I've got some more land upgrades coming too, emptying out the trade binder for enemy fetches - I have Mesa and Tarn to collect, and Catacombs and Rainforest to add once I collect them.

The deck definitely feels more tuned at the minute, and while its definitely feeling more geared towards combo lines, I'm not quite so bothered at that at the moment. It also still feels like it has legs into the mid-late game, which is kind of my jam as a midrange player anyway. I'm happy to have a list that can pivot.

[Eburon]

Without going into direct gameplay, dropping the curve has been an absolute boon. Even just having 3 to swing with once Varina drops is massive, and I've been able to come up with a variety of lines to close out the game really easily. I've definitely got more to add, some on the way from my LGS already, but I'm still tracking down Universal Automaton and Tainted Adversary.

I am on the same boat. Slowly dropping my curve to get more early plays. Tainted Adversary is pretty strong. The changelings seem to make sense to add, but I feel kinda "wrong" about adding them.

Skullclamp has been a stone cold killer here, really stoked to have added it. Conversely, Necroduality, having finally got to play it, has been a bit middling. Buried Alive has been good too, but it immediately made me realise how insanely good Intuition would be instead. The last game I played I went off with Gravecrawler and Phyrexian Altar with Corpse Knight, and I could've managed it a solid 2 turns earlier with the latter over the former. Ah well, it's something to aspire to.

Skullclamp is a house, especially with a lower curve. I never played with Necroduality, but I always felt like it doesn't do enough when you play it. It likely needs a turn to do it's thing and you are not likely to get there. Other cards such as Rooftop Storm and Kindred Discovery at least have an effect you can use immediately.

Intuition is indeed a card to aspire to. Some day!

[yeti1069]

I'm not leaning so heavily into the combo lines. I had actually dialed back from them a while ago, and think I'll keep it where it is for myself.

Had a few good games at the LGS the other night.

First game, I board wiped a scary board and then played Stairwell. I was making 17(!!!) tokens to everyone else's 5, 2, and 2. Holding Empty the Laboratory in hand, my plan was to swing on my turn, then Empty any remaining bodies...until the angels player cast Farewell. What a blowout! No creatures, no enchantments, and lost my whole stocked graveyard. Then everyone proceeded to beat on me since I had been the threat, though I no longer was.

Next game, had the same angels player and one other for a 3-person pod. Slower start, but kept building well and had a big turn off Nykthos with ETB drain triggers to close it out. Both games felt solid. I had had a counterspell earlier in the first game that I could have held onto for something scary, but I think I'd used it on something appropriate. In the rematch I held up mana for a counter every turn once I got one in hand, just to avoid the blowout again, but it never came.

I like Crucible of Worlds, it just can be difficult to actually find a time to spend the 3 mana to cast it.
Necroduality is kind of in the same boat--had a couple games where I actually played it, and one where it was very relevant/good, but most of the time I've seen it, I've ended up discarding it to Varina. If I were running some multi-target recursion for enchantments, I think I'd like it better, but I'm not on that right now, so this may end up getting cut.

[toctheyounger]

I am on the same boat. Slowly dropping my curve to get more early plays. Tainted Adversary is pretty strong. The changelings seem to make sense to add, but I feel kinda "wrong" about adding them.

Yeah I get that for sure. I still feel weird about Snap and Wayfarer, but they're useful enough to look past. And the changelings, if anything are more useful again just for being bargain basement cheap to cast.

Skullclamp is a house, especially with a lower curve. I never played with Necroduality, but I always felt like it doesn't do enough when you play it. It likely needs a turn to do it's thing and you are not likely to get there. Other cards such as Rooftop Storm and Kindred Discovery at least have an effect you can use immediately.

Intuition is indeed a card to aspire to. Some day!

Yeah, I'd hoped for better with Necroduality but the closer I look at it the less it adds up to a great card. Esper being light on ramp makes it tough to cast ahead of curve, and for us, the ideal is always to be playing creatures first and foremost, with very few exceptions. With that said it makes very little sense to be dropping this after you've got a boardstate, and the lower my curve goes the less reason I have to include it, as there are less high value creatures to copy. There's not none, but, well, a second Putrid Imp will only get you so far.

As far as Intuition goes, yeah it might be one to save up for. It feels like the sort of card that warps the deck around it, as it'll almost certainly give me pretty hard and fast lines to follow for combo outs, but even as a fair card it seems very good. I'd settle for an unbanned Gifts Ungiven too, but I feel it's more likely I stumble across the former before the latter sees play.

I'm not leaning so heavily into the combo lines. I had actually dialed back from them a while ago, and think I'll keep it where it is for myself.

Had a few good games at the LGS the other night.

First game, I board wiped a scary board and then played Stairwell. I was making 17(!!!) tokens to everyone else's 5, 2, and 2. Holding Empty the Laboratory in hand, my plan was to swing on my turn, then Empty any remaining bodies...until the angels player cast Farewell. What a blowout! No creatures, no enchantments, and lost my whole stocked graveyard. Then everyone proceeded to beat on me since I had been the threat, though I no longer was.

Next game, had the same angels player and one other for a 3-person pod. Slower start, but kept building well and had a big turn off Nykthos with ETB drain triggers to close it out. Both games felt solid. I had had a counterspell earlier in the first game that I could have held onto for something scary, but I think I'd used it on something appropriate. In the rematch I held up mana for a counter every turn once I got one in hand, just to avoid the blowout again, but it never came.

I like Crucible of Worlds, it just can be difficult to actually find a time to spend the 3 mana to cast it.
Necroduality is kind of in the same boat--had a couple games where I actually played it, and one where it was very relevant/good, but most of the time I've seen it, I've ended up discarding it to Varina. If I were running some multi-target recursion for enchantments, I think I'd like it better, but I'm not on that right now, so this may end up getting cut.

This is fair. I find myself leaning towards 'optimised' games for lack of a better term, where I'm really challenged to sequence correctly and threat assess as well as I can. Even at that level, I'm often the underdog and I like the challenge of seeing if I can steal a win in those scenarios.

I get it with Crucible of Worlds, in a way it's in a similar boat to Necroduality in that it's often hard to justify casting it over more zombies. That said, with Crucible you have a)Sevinne's Reclamation to help, and b) scope to follow up with a land recursion to make a 2+ spell turn even while dropping it on curve. As well as that being colorless really helps; Ashnod's Altar has been a true boon for me in beating the curve on colorless costs in the past, I don't regret it's inclusion whatsoever. Considering how much it shaves from mass reanimates, board wipes and curve toppers it's been really good to have for me. I've got a crucible sitting in folder waiting for a reason to play it here, and I think once I've got somewhere about 4-5 fetches of various kinds I'll feel a bit more like it's justifiable.

[pzbw7z]

@toctheyounger
Universal Automaton seems useful only in combination with Ashnod's Altar and either Liliana, Untouched by Death or Rooftop Storm - or am I missing something?

Tainted Adversary doesn't seem like a card that actually lowers the curve. He seems okay for two mana, and five produces three bodies for triggers, which seems good with the proper support, but he's a card that is higher in actual casting cost than printed MV.

Skullclamp is a card I've been hesitant to add. But I suppose we have tools to kill our Zombies. I still am hesitant to sac creatures with useful abilities which seems to describe most of my Zombies. I think I'm wrong here, and I usually get over my self mid-game and start pitching all of the Creature cards to Varina in preparation for a mass-reanimation spell. I suppose I should just give Clamp a go, what's the worst thing that can happen?[/quote]

[toctheyounger]

@toctheyounger
Universal Automaton seems useful only in combination with Ashnod's Altar and either Liliana, Untouched by Death or Rooftop Storm - or am I missing something?

Tainted Adversary doesn't seem like a card that actually lowers the curve. He seems okay for two mana, and five produces three bodies for triggers, which seems good with the proper support, but he's a card that is higher in actual casting cost than printed MV.

Skullclamp is a card I've been hesitant to add. But I suppose we have tools to kill our Zombies. I still am hesitant to sac creatures with useful abilities which seems to describe most of my Zombies. I think I'm wrong here, and I usually get over my self mid-game and start pitching all of the Creature cards to Varina in preparation for a mass-reanimation spell. I suppose I should just give Clamp a go, what's the worst thing that can happen?

Automaton is also an easy pop with Skullclamp, but otherwise its also a zombie that we can't ever miss on colors for. Its not a must in my opinion, but I don't see why I shouldn't try it out and see how far expanding the lower side of the curve gets me. Ultimately it would just be there to fill out the ranks, but its a good card to do so with.

You're right on Adversary, if you're only casting it for 2 you're doing it wrong I'd say. I do still want to try it, as having those burst mana lands make it viable to really flood the board in some cases. It might be poop, and its more likely to be than Automaton but it could be worth it too.

Id strongly advocate for Skullclamp. Even without going infinite its hard to get a better rate on refilling your hand, which is pretty critical since Varina won't ever refill you herself. The last game I played earlier this week I had nothing going on except a Gravecrawler, some zombie chaff and a clamp in play and I was hellbent. I went from there to a full grip, casting Phyrexian Altar and dropping some bleeders to win the game on the spot with interaction in hand. Granted, that's an extreme case, you're not always going to fit the pieces all together at once, but there's no doubt its excellent draw regardless.

The worst thing that can happen with clamp is losing on the crackback, but were not hugely equipped for defending against an alpha strike anyway, and we mostly want our creatures to end in the yard sooner or later. I say give it a go.

[pzbw7z]

Automaton is also an easy pop with Skullclamp, but otherwise its also a zombie that we can't ever miss on colors for. Its not a must in my opinion, but I don't see why I shouldn't try it out and see how far expanding the lower side of the curve gets me. Ultimately it would just be there to fill out the ranks, but its a good card to do so with.

There is no shortage of one-MV Zombies to choose from, many with relevant abilities. For instance, Stitcher's Supplier has "clamp me!" written on the card! (You have to read between the lines ) I'm not sold on a faux Zombie, but I've got a few non-Zombies in my list so I've no claim to being a purist. I am re-evaluating them with a very jaundiced eye.

[Eburon]

You're right on Adversary, if you're only casting it for 2 you're doing it wrong I'd say. I do still want to try it, as having those burst mana lands make it viable to really flood the board in some cases. It might be poop, and its more likely to be than Automaton but it could be worth it too.

Even if you only cost for 2, it is a 2/3 with deathtouch, which it still a solid body to have. Nobody likes to deal with deathtouch.

[pokken]

Clamp is life. When you clamp a creature you draw two cards then have it in the graveyard to mass reanimate later. This is good magic. The graveyard is our hand. Just keep remembering that

[toctheyounger]

The graveyard is our hand.

This.

[pzbw7z]

Skullclamp, Foulmire Knight and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge is enough to make one salivate.

I've overlooked Clamp just because so many Zombies are two-toughness, especially tokens. In other decks where I've used or have used Clamp, 1/1
tokens were usually the fodder. Requiring a sac-outlet is an issue, but we have a good few of those available.

I'm sold on it.

[pokken]

Skullclamp, Foulmire Knight and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge is enough to make one salivate.

I've overlooked Clamp just because so many Zombies are two-toughness, especially tokens. In other decks where I've used or have used Clamp, 1/1
tokens were usually the fodder. Requiring a sac-outlet is an issue, but we have a good few of those available.

I'm sold on it.

Yeah with all the sac outlets I run plus swinging out I have never been sad to see clamp.

I really like the 3 drop sac pump guys too.

[plaganegra]

Glad to see Buried alive finally making the list! @toctheyounger what is the primary targets you like to search for?

I dropped by to comment on a specific card: Jailbreak

This seems like a great potential add to me. It has so many applications throughout the game. If you fun fetches it can also be an effective ramp spell on T1-2. Mid-late game you can grab a lot of things easily, notably altars and the like or even the higher cmc enchantments like necroduality etc. I don't see this as replacing Syvenns Rec, but as an option to run alongside it.

[toctheyounger]

Glad to see Buried alive finally making the list! @toctheyounger what is the primary targets you like to search for?

I dropped by to comment on a specific card: Jailbreak

This seems like a great potential add to me. It has so many applications throughout the game. If you fun fetches it can also be an effective ramp spell on T1-2. Mid-late game you can grab a lot of things easily, notably altars and the like or even the higher cmc enchantments like necroduality etc. I don't see this as replacing Syvenns Rec, but as an option to run alongside it.

At this point, it's mostly Gravecrawler plus flex spots. Thus far it's been aristocrat options or draw, like Undead Augur; or if I have mass reanimation in my grip ready to flip, something like Gray Merchant of Asphodel to really hit it home. I will admit it has been very good thus far, although I do wish it had more versatility than it does. But in all fairness, the next best option is Intuition and I just don't have access to it right now. It's definitely not a card I regret adding, it's sped things up nicely. But it does feel like there are a limited number of lines it gives me based on my current list.

[Arebennian]

Glad to see Buried alive finally making the list! @toctheyounger what is the primary targets you like to search for?

I dropped by to comment on a specific card: Jailbreak

This seems like a great potential add to me. It has so many applications throughout the game. If you fun fetches it can also be an effective ramp spell on T1-2. Mid-late game you can grab a lot of things easily, notably altars and the like or even the higher cmc enchantments like necroduality etc. I don't see this as replacing Syvenns Rec, but as an option to run alongside it.

At this point, it's mostly Gravecrawler plus flex spots. Thus far it's been aristocrat options or draw, like Undead Augur; or if I have mass reanimation in my grip ready to flip, something like Gray Merchant of Asphodel to really hit it home. I will admit it has been very good thus far, although I do wish it had more versatility than it does. But in all fairness, the next best option is Intuition and I just don't have access to it right now. It's definitely not a card I regret adding, it's sped things up nicely. But it does feel like there are a limited number of lines it gives me based on my current list.

This is going to sound aggressive, but how do you get your other options you search for, the 'plus flex slots', like card draw (Undead Augur)? With a mass reanimation spell?

[toctheyounger]

Glad to see Buried alive finally making the list! @toctheyounger what is the primary targets you like to search for?

I dropped by to comment on a specific card: Jailbreak

This seems like a great potential add to me. It has so many applications throughout the game. If you fun fetches it can also be an effective ramp spell on T1-2. Mid-late game you can grab a lot of things easily, notably altars and the like or even the higher cmc enchantments like necroduality etc. I don't see this as replacing Syvenns Rec, but as an option to run alongside it.

At this point, it's mostly Gravecrawler plus flex spots. Thus far it's been aristocrat options or draw, like Undead Augur; or if I have mass reanimation in my grip ready to flip, something like Gray Merchant of Asphodel to really hit it home. I will admit it has been very good thus far, although I do wish it had more versatility than it does. But in all fairness, the next best option is Intuition and I just don't have access to it right now. It's definitely not a card I regret adding, it's sped things up nicely. But it does feel like there are a limited number of lines it gives me based on my current list.

This is going to sound aggressive, but how do you get your other options you search for, the 'plus flex slots', like card draw (Undead Augur)? With a mass reanimation spell?

Not at all!

At this point, there is nothing else that finds these things, I rely a lot on redundancy in these pieces. That's purely because the list is currently not fully geared for combo or super efficient lines. I am open to suggestions if you have them though!

[Arebennian]

If your playing it for value, but don't have anything that recurs the creatures that you want, either to hand or to the battlefield in the command zone (or can't set up with a Sevinne's Reclamation because Buried Alive is not Intuition) then I'm not sure if the value is there. Including one big target in your deck so you can drop it in, like a Rothulk, on the chance you have a mass reanimation spell might be fair, but then you've got Grey Merchant for that...

I can't remember who but someone, might have been yourself, had a lot of self-recurring zombies to search for: Master of Death / Prized Amalgam + silversmote ghoul + Vengeful Pharaoh.That seems like a better proposition to me, but the issue here is that they are all 3 drops and compete for slots against likely better cards.

There is always Entomb, or it's much cheaper and slightly less flexible cousin Unmarked Grave? Shave off a mana to just have a tutor for Gravecrawler?

[pzbw7z]

Haakon, Stromgald Scourge is stoked to be Buried Alive with some of his friends; I can't wait to try it out!

They need Phyrexian Altar to win - plus a not inconsiderable amount of mana, but we have a few tutors, so we are hoping for a good result with Buried Alive!

[Arebennian]

Haakon, Stromgald Scourge is stoked to be Buried Alive with some of his friends; I can't wait to try it out!

They need Phyrexian Altar to win - plus a not inconsiderable amount of mana, but we have a few tutors, so we are hoping for a good result with Buried Alive!

I didn't think toctheyounger was playing the Haakon package?

[toctheyounger]

Haakon, Stromgald Scourge is stoked to be Buried Alive with some of his friends; I can't wait to try it out!

They need Phyrexian Altar to win - plus a not inconsiderable amount of mana, but we have a few tutors, so we are hoping for a good result with Buried Alive!

I didn't think toctheyounger was playing the Haakon package?

Not just yet, no. I have it in the binder ready to pop in, but I wanted to take baby steps and test a lower curve first anyway. If it makes it in, which is possible shortly, probably Liliana's Standard Bearer returns too. And I agree, I think without specific targets other than Gravecrawler Buried Alive probably isn't quite good enough. Unmarked Grave seems fine, but honestly Entomb is overdue for a reprint anyway, so I'd be pretty surprised not to see it again soon, it'd be preferable to have that flexibility.

[plaganegra]

If your playing it for value, but don't have anything that recurs the creatures that you want, either to hand or to the battlefield in the command zone (or can't set up with a Sevinne's Reclamation because Buried Alive is not Intuition) then I'm not sure if the value is there. Including one big target in your deck so you can drop it in, like a Rothulk, on the chance you have a mass reanimation spell might be fair, but then you've got Grey Merchant for that...

I can't remember who but someone, might have been yourself, had a lot of self-recurring zombies to search for: Master of Death / Prized Amalgam + silversmote ghoul + Vengeful Pharaoh.That seems like a better proposition to me, but the issue here is that they are all 3 drops and compete for slots against likely better cards.

There is always Entomb, or it's much cheaper and slightly less flexible cousin Unmarked Grave? Shave off a mana to just have a tutor for Gravecrawler?

Haha that would be me!

most frequently:
gravecrawler
wonder
Master of Death or prized amalgam or silversmote ghoul or utility zombie or win condition for later uses. I prefer to win the game on the spot when I cast a mass reanimate spell so having that bomb in the GY ready to go takes the luck of sifting through the deck out of the equation.

Haakon package is very good with buried alive - tons of redundancy. @pokken really hammered that point home over time.

Master of Death is an unsung hero

Back several pages I made a thorough list of the lines I use and a strong case for more people using buried alive in their Varina decks. That's why I commented on Tocs addition of the card to his list - love seeing it!

It is such a shame Intuition is so expensive - its just so amazing in this deck. Also works well with Jailbreak as a way to make piles one sided