Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[RedCheese]

uffff need to put Graveborn Muse back into my Varina. Forgot how good it was....and i remember she kille once aswell lol.

This my decklsit.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/varinas-undead-kingdom/

[toctheyounger]

uffff need to put Graveborn Muse back into my Varina. Forgot how good it was....and i remember she kille once aswell lol.

This my decklsit.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/varinas-undead-kingdom/

It does pay to be careful with it, yeah. It's been truly excellent for my build though.

[Supersprite]

Sweet list but i saw a few cards twice?
How is that zombie abyss at 5b? Does it do work? Is it flavour or do you really like to draw it?

Having bone miser out with zombie infestation is wonderful. Having a archive next to them makes it crazy pseudo infinite! Bone miser is really good next to necromancers stockpile to.
I love stockpile, i dump heavy cost zombies with it so i get to draw then get a 2/2 zombo as bonus. Really good and easy to be overlooked.

[toctheyounger]

Can't speak for the list in question but I've always found Call to the Grave very slow. For the same cost I'd much prefer a Grave Pact style effect, or a wipe of some kind. That being said, the flavour is undeniable.

I've had stockpile in and out of the list a couple of times. It's never done a huge amount for me - I think it's just that the conditions of discard being that it must be a creature card makes it more conditional to use than Infestation. That being said I still haven't tracked down Bone Miser - that limited run of the first print of precons vanished quick from my LGS.

[RedCheese]

ops, didn't saw the copies. Fixed it and thanks for the feedback. Call to the Grave really is a pet card that its super flavourfull. But i did have success with it in the one match i had it out. Need more testing of course. Still didn't live the dream of getting the Bone Miser + Archive + Zombie Infestation on the field.

[Artaud]

How about adding Flash with Academy Rector to search for Kindred Discovery or Rooftop Storm at instant speed? Flash also works great with Rot Hulk which returns itself and up to 5 other zombies at 4-player table.

[Supersprite]

I seen rot hulk and i find myself in the situation that im very low on 6 mana spells, i think i only play 1 (zombie apocalypse)

Then again.. its not needed with all the mass reanimation. I dropped the phyrexian delver ages ago, why would i use targetted reanimation at 5 mana? Thats like turn 4,5. Thats the time i maybe get varina in and start cycling. Well.. i have some targeted reanimation, like apprentice necromander at 2 cc and sevennes reclamation at 3 ccc (is it called that???) But apprentice is just there because hes a cheap zombie with uses. Sevennes reclemation is there to try it our. Flashback reanimate on a 2w reanimator seems good.

I have retought the 2 zombies from eldraine. I will play the b 1/1 deatouch one, cheap zombies are welcome and deattouch is too. 2b draw a card is just gravy for when you really need to dig. The heros downfall on a stick.. i dont know.. heros downfall is sub par when acces to whites exile effects. And a 2/3 zombie at 3.. rather have a lord. That art tough.. the special version is awesome.

[POL33TMAN]

I had a super grindy game with my Varina deck on the weekend and got another win! Sitting on a 60% win ratio after 5 games with my Varina deck so far.

Commanders:
Varina, Lich Queen vs Sliver Hivelord vs Tatyova, Benthic Druid

Details of game:
I got off to a blazing start with 3 mana rocks, 2 lands, Cryptbreaker and Death Baron. I was able to get an imposing board state up really early in the game and started to deal lots of early game damage. I drew into Wonder pretty early game and discarded into graveyard to give all my creatures flying. At this stage I was the clear threat on the board. The Tatyova, Benthic Druid player bounced my board multiple times with a River's Rebuke that he recurred a few times from his graveyard. With all the mana rocks from my opening hand I was able to bounce back each turn without issue. Due to the multiple times of my board being bounced my strategy ended up being play all my mana rocks and all my low cmc Zombies and keeping Varina, Lich Queen in hand to play the following turn. I drew into Archfiend of Ifnir and played this and Varina from my hand then swung with 3 or 4 of the low cmc Zombies cast from me previous turn (all had flying and menace due to Wonder in my graveyard and Graf Harvest in play). Attacking with the 4 creatures essentially wiped my opponents board with the Varina and Archfiend triggers.

I survived multiple other board wipes from the Tatyova, Benthic Druid player as he cast Slinn Voda, the Rising Deep and Whelming Wave in following turns. Each time I bounced back just as strong using the same strategy mentioned above and was able to survive one of the wipes with Teferi's Protection.

Finally I got my board back into play from hand and drew into Vizkopa Guildmage. In the following turn I triggered the second ability 3 times then attacked my opponents with 9 Zombies and Varina on the board, resulting in 27 life loss to each opponent winning me the game!

The game went for just shy of 2 hours and felt super grindy because I had to keep casting my bounced board. It did however highlight the complete resilience of the deck to survive against all odds and still close out the game in a strong showing.

Standout Performers: Varina, Lich Queen, Archfiend of Ifnir, Vizkopa Guildmage,Wonder, Graf Harvest.

[toctheyounger]

snip

This sounds like a fun game! As much as it's nice to have an emphatically decisive win, I almost find the ones that are hard to eke out are more satisfying, as you do have to think outside of the box from time to time to make it all come together.

I've always loved Vizkopa Guildmage, it's a very strong effect. There's a fair chance it could justify inclusion in my list. I totally concur with Graf Harvest too, combat evasion for has been really reliable for me.

snip

Rot Hulk I honestly just don't think I'll ever track down. It's far too hard to find as a single, so I've written it off regardless. As far as Delver goes, for me it's testing out what can help me post wipe or when the chips are down. I haven't really been able to test it overly, but time will tell.

I've given a little thought to the Eldraine Zombies too. I think Foulmire Knight is a lock for value in a variety of circumstances, Murderous Rider I think is reasonable too, although yeah, the removal suite is pretty ample at present. It remains to be seen how likely we are to see extensive value from the adventure mechanic, but I like it and I think it'll be decent. It's the shuffle clause on Rider that makes things a little more uncertain, and I totally get why that's sub par. It means you're almost certainly casting it for the first time as Hero's Downfall to get that value, then casting from exile and hoping it doesn't die before you get to swing. Yeah, it's too much work.

How about adding Flash with Academy Rector to search for Kindred Discovery or Rooftop Storm at instant speed? Flash also works great with Rot Hulk which returns itself and up to 5 other zombies at 4-player table.

For me this isn't going to happen, unfortunately. Academy Rector is emphatically outside of what I can afford. I also think I prefer Enlightened Tutor purely for being a ton easier way to grab whatever you need anyway. I can't see Flash having any other use here, and Academy Rector isn't 'of tribe', so it all kind of seems a bit clunkier than it ought to. Granted the trade off is entering play vs topdecking, but an instant speed easy tutor is still preferable to my mind. I....can't afford that either, but if I could that's where my money would go.

As an aside, we got officially primerised! Thanks again go to all of the contributors to the thread, I certainly didn't expect this level of input and wouldn't have bothered making a primer if there weren't the interest, and I've found the discussion engaging and worthwhile, so full credit goes to you all.

[POL33TMAN]

[mention]toctheyounger[/mention] It sure was a fun game and its a testament to the deck that it was able to survive and actually take home the victory. Vizkopa Guildmage was obviously the stand out performer winning me the game but the Varina, Lich Queen + Archfiend of Ifnir combo was such a board lock for my opponents you could argue that as the true winner!

[toctheyounger]

Been meaning to ask, what do you guys think of cliched Disney fairytale ending? I have to admit as lame as I think the flavour of the card is it's decent value. Trading off the double effect of Return to Dust for definite draw is tempting to me. I find often with Dust I'll settle for a second target I don't need to hit just to maximize impact, but a lot of the time I'd prefer card advantage myself.

[blinx28]

Been meaning to ask, what do you guys think of cliched Disney fairytale ending? I have to admit as lame as I think the flavour of the card is it's decent value. Trading off the double effect of Return to Dust for definite draw is tempting to me. I find often with Dust I'll settle for a second target I don't need to hit just to maximize impact, but a lot of the time I'd prefer card advantage myself.

It doesn't seem that powerful to me esp for 4CMC, but may be worth a swap and see if it shows up in your hand at all and makes you happy. Worse case you know what card goes back in it's place...crush contraband lol.

[toctheyounger]

Been meaning to ask, what do you guys think of cliched Disney fairytale ending? I have to admit as lame as I think the flavour of the card is it's decent value. Trading off the double effect of Return to Dust for definite draw is tempting to me. I find often with Dust I'll settle for a second target I don't need to hit just to maximize impact, but a lot of the time I'd prefer card advantage myself.

It doesn't seem that powerful to me esp for 4CMC, but may be worth a swap and see if it shows up in your hand at all and makes you happy. Worse case you know what card goes back in it's place...crush contraband lol.

Well, it's instant speed like Return to Dust. Literally the only difference is instead of a second conditional exile it cantrips. I don't definitely think it deserves a place, but it's reasonably priced for what it does and merits consideration at the least. Maybe it's a meta call - if you find yourself needing the second exile of dust or contraband run them, if the cantrip is more valuable run this instead. I just think considering there's not a lot of white cantrip at instant speed it's worth looking at.

[toctheyounger]

Throne of Eldraine Review

Throne of Eldraine is something my wife has been looking forward to for a while now. She's a Vorthos/Timmy fiend, and has a thing for fairies in this game, so she's been starved since Lorwyn/Shadowmoor block. I like a flavour dense set myself, although with most of my lists pretty well established I wasn't holding out a ton of hope for dozens of adds. Let's have a look at what I've got my eye on:

Artifacts/Colorless/Lands

• Castle Ardenvale - Sadly, this doesn't do anything I'd like it to.
• Castle Lochtwain - Draw on a land is nice. It'll almost certainly enter untapped. What concerns me is the life loss. I've had some sizable hands with this deck, so it could be a suicide play.
• Castle Vantress - This is a strong ability. While our deck is very well skewed to black, it is tempting to run this. I've been looking at filling out the shocks and battle lands with Godless Shrine and Sunken Hollow anyway, so adding Hallowed Fountain and this wouldn't be the worst thing to do with a utility land.
• Idyllic Grange - Yeah, this doesn't do anything I'd want it to.
• Mystic Sanctuary - This one, though. I want like a dozen of these. This is a good reason to fill out the deck with Island Plains and Swamp Islands. Or get yourself an Amulet of Vigor.
• Witch's Cottage - We're back to probably not doing enough here. I can't see anything in the list directly that I want top of library as a preference, so I'm happy to keep Volrath's Stronghold instead of this.

---

White

• Deafening Silence - It's a possibility. I think there's times it would hinder us as much as anyone else, so I don't consider it a lock.
• True Love's Kiss - We've talked this one over briefly. I really like it. It's worth considering, purely because it's never going to offer less than full value. Return to Dust and Crush Contraband remove two things, possibly. If there's nothing else you want to hit you either look like a jerk and get some board attention, or you overpay. This is the best of a compromise, in that the chances are you're never going to turn down an extra draw.

Blue

• Folio of Fancies - It's....kinda cool. It definitely doesn't fit in a midrange build, but if you're looking for a mill/combo win con, this could totally do it.
• Mirrormade - A second copy of Kindred Discovery seems like a way to deck yourself, but Tombstone Stairwell, Smothering Tithe and Mystic Remora could make cool targets. I don't personally think there's quite enough enchantment support to justify adding this, but your mileage may vary.

Black

• The Cauldron of Eternity - This could actually do some work. It looks janky, but consider: we mill to our graveyard constantly, so this will almost always be cost reduced. The middle ability is slightly troublesome, but we mill nonetheless, and with enough draw power we can churn through to hit the same pieces again. The third ability is the juice obviously. We can abuse it well enough. I don't think this is a lock, but there's reason enough to think that it could do some work, just...in a weird way.
• Festive Funeral - Almost certainly an immediate removal for us. I'd be locking it in if it affected every creature, but for the cost it's probably a bit much.
• Foulmire Knight - We've already talked this one over. I think it's going to be a really versatile add. A rattlesnake and a cantrip, it's a decent add.
• Murderous Rider - It's decent. Hero's Downfall is decent. What really makes it hard for us to get value out of it is the shuffle clause, and for that reason I probably pass on this. We have plenty of removal anyway, so that shuffle clause is a deal breaker.
• Witchclaw Talisman - Cool effect, but I honestly don't think I'm game enough to run this.
• Witch's Vengeance - This is kind of reasonable. Well costed, but probably a meta call depending on how tribal your group is. As it is it's kind of Kindred Dominance or this - you're either going for lower cost or certain removal.

Multicolored

• Dance of the Manse - This isn't immediately a no. A lot of our control is artifact/enchantment based. I don't think I'd ever be looking at engaging animation mode, but that's a good thing. Cheap, reasonable recursion is worth considering.
• Doom Foretold - Way too slow to consider, to be honest. You'd be looking at a staxy grind list to fit this into, and we don't really have the time for that.
• Drown in the Loch - If the clauses were 'in your graveyard' this would be a really nice addition. Could still be cool in a mill list, just...not my list.

All in all, not a ton for us here. Some definite locks, some maybe's, some 'on the fence's, some 'for alternate build's. What I'm looking to add I think are worth adding, but granted, it's a small list. I didn't expect a ton, purely because zombies don't feature overly in fairy tale or arthurian legend, but there's still some cool bits.

Let me know if you have thoughts about any of these, or if you think there's something I've missed!

[RedCheese]

Syr Konrad, the Grim is a cool card and would be perfect if he was a zombie. Ill consider him and try it out

[toctheyounger]

Syr Konrad, the Grim is a cool card and would be perfect if he was a zombie. Ill consider him and try it out

Oh yeah, I did forget about this guy. Whenever a creature twitches a finger your opponents lose life. It's not bad. I still feel like it's more than I want to pay for the effect, but I could totally see where he fits in the deck.

[Kvothe]

Mystic Sanctuary looks great, recurring mass reanimation spells is very important in my opinions and this offers something we didn't have without having to waste a slot.

I value mana efficiency over value in my removal spells, so I don't like the removal options you pointed out. I can see why you would run the ones that provide CA but Festive Funeral seems really bad when you have access to Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares. At least Cruel Revival for that mana cost gets you a Zombie back.

Turning off the sacrificing to get my guys into the graveyard kills the Cauldron to me.

Ayara and Konrad have cool effects, too bad they aren't Zombies.

[toctheyounger]

Yeah, I agree. Sanctuary is too good to not at least try to run here. There's generally a good chance it enters untapped, but I do want to include a few insurance lands moving forward. Filling out relevant shocks and such should do it.

I also agree regarding the removal here. There's nothing REALLY special for us, and considering how lean and efficient our spot removal is the additions really would need to be quite special. I still stand by True Love's Kiss as a viable addition, but Festive Funeral is overcosted, and Witch's Vengeance while well costed us definitely a meta call. Great if you have elfball or krenko in your meta, but I'm personally going to stick with Kindred Dominance. It's expensive but it's a sure thing.

I also agree regarding Cauldron. It's a cool flavorful card, but including it definitely means you're using a slot for a toy card. It would mean dispensing with sacrifice as a viable mechanic and perhaps going for polymorph mechanics instead. It's not outside the realm of possibilities, but it would be a drastic rebuild.

I though the same about Ayara and Konrad - I also feel like my aristocrat suite is full enough to not need to bother adding them, especially considering their respective costs to cast - all of my aristocrats are cheaper, and the most costly (Vengeful Dead) I know there's folk out there who are on the fence regarding it's place in the list. Adding to that 5 CMC slot seems a bridge too far.

[blinx28]

Made a bunch of swaps to try and shake my build up a bit, leaning heavier into control.

Added counterspell, mystic confluence, mystical tutor, and rhystic study, lost binding mummy, lich lord of unx, midnight reaper, and gray merchant of asphodel.

Know Gray is a wincon, but it seams like a bit of a boring KO every time i dump and reanimate it. Plus it keeps a healthy curve. Hoping being more reactionary aids in my meta. Midrange it is

[toctheyounger]

Made a bunch of swaps to try and shake my build up a bit, leaning heavier into control.

Added counterspell, mystic confluence, mystical tutor, and rhystic study, lost binding mummy, lich lord of unx, midnight reaper, and gray merchant of asphodel.

Know Gray is a wincon, but it seams like a bit of a boring KO every time i dump and reanimate it. Plus it keeps a healthy curve. Hoping being more reactionary aids in my meta. Midrange it is

Totally get it. After a few Gary activations it does get to be somewhat of a lackluster win condition. I definitely prefer the incremental midrange grind that comes from the other bleeders, even if it is from Tombstone Stairwell.

Let us know how it plays out; I know from experience that midrange can be a really tough way to win, but there's enough control in the colours that it should be feasible.

[blinx28]

I'm liking the shift of Varina towards almost a shell for esper goodstuff vs strict tribal—it doesn't kick off right away, but def keeps me from overextending and having no board presence should a wipe drop early and keeps attention off me till I've dumped the goodies and it's too late

[toctheyounger]

I'm liking the shift of Varina towards almost a shell for esper goodstuff vs strict tribal—it doesn't kick off right away, but def keeps me from overextending and having no board presence should a wipe drop early and keeps attention off me till I've dumped the goodies and it's too late

That's good to hear. I know midrange strategies are really good for honing your skills in timing and generally just gauging the tempo and swing of the game, but it can be tough to close out. I think there's enough tools in the colours that this deck lends itself well to midrange.

It's funny though - most of my creatures are zombies, but for whatever reason I don't think of this as zombie tribal. I guess I'm just lucky enough that our tribe does most of what I want it to with the buffs, draw and life loss. Still waiting for a zombie Archaeomancer, some day.

[RedCheese]

I'm liking the shift of Varina towards almost a shell for esper goodstuff vs strict tribal—it doesn't kick off right away, but def keeps me from overextending and having no board presence should a wipe drop early and keeps attention off me till I've dumped the goodies and it's too late

That's good to hear. I know midrange strategies are really good for honing your skills in timing and generally just gauging the tempo and swing of the game, but it can be tough to close out. I think there's enough tools in the colours that this deck lends itself well to midrange.

It's funny though - most of my creatures are zombies, but for whatever reason I don't think of this as zombie tribal. I guess I'm just lucky enough that our tribe does most of what I want it to with the buffs, draw and life loss. Still waiting for a zombie Archaeomancer, some day.

doesn't Possessed Skaab count?

[toctheyounger]

I'm liking the shift of Varina towards almost a shell for esper goodstuff vs strict tribal—it doesn't kick off right away, but def keeps me from overextending and having no board presence should a wipe drop early and keeps attention off me till I've dumped the goodies and it's too late

That's good to hear. I know midrange strategies are really good for honing your skills in timing and generally just gauging the tempo and swing of the game, but it can be tough to close out. I think there's enough tools in the colours that this deck lends itself well to midrange.

It's funny though - most of my creatures are zombies, but for whatever reason I don't think of this as zombie tribal. I guess I'm just lucky enough that our tribe does most of what I want it to with the buffs, draw and life loss. Still waiting for a zombie Archaeomancer, some day.

doesn't Possessed Skaab count?

It does, but that exile clause is a bastard, and it's maybe more than I'd like to pay. We don't have any bounce, so sac and reanimate is the strategy, and that won't work with this guy. Otherwise there's Dralnu, Lich Lord, but a)I have one copy, and b)In this deck I don't have the architecture to protect him from his own first ability.

I've been on the brink of adding either/both before, just....neither one is quite right, y'know? It'll be good to grab a Mystic Sanctuary for that reason, even if it's not quite as repeatable.

[yeti1069]

I got really excited about Mystic Sanctuary, until I reread it and realized you need 3 other Islands in play to get its ability. I'm running the three relevant shock lands along with Fetid Pools, Irrigated Farmland, andSunken Hollow for basic land types, as well as the three relevant fetch lands, but I still don't feel like I'm consistently getting 3 Islands in play most games, let alone 3+a specific other "Island".

I'd be curious to see what experience everyone has with this once it goes live, but I think most of the time it's just going to be a non-basic Island that enters tapped.