Nissa's Spanish Inquisition!

weltkrieg · Post by **weltkrieg** » 4 years ago

Oh yeah. I forgot I added thorn mammoth to my yeva deck..card is busted. Good creature removal! So good I am almost tempted to remove duplicant.

That said, almost any spell based combo in edh needs lots of mana, so if you hold their mana under control (titania's song, naturalize variants, etc. ), you should be able to control them long enough to swing for the win/burn them out. It is how I keep combo decks down in my yeva build (I also forgot to mention the seedborne muse, but the deck might as well read "build your own prophet of kruphix draw engine").

Wave of vitriol is a really good way to wreck combo and control, too, as is the great aurora (absolutely nasty against spell based decks because they tend not to have a lot of permanents)

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

Yeah, it's a strong add, for sure. I've been looking for an excuse to remove Duplicant myself, but not quite bold enough to make the move just yet.

This is correct too - often it's enough to break down engines, mana production or supporting infrastructure for the wheels to come off a combo. I find there's usually a solution somewhere, it just sometimes takes thinking around corners rather than a direct approach with the tools available in mono-green. It usually helps knowing what to expect for a combo too, though. Like knowing you're waiting for the other part of Exquisite Blood/Sanguine Bond, Laboratory Maniac, Oath of Teferi in Aminatou, whatever it might be recognising what is coming tells you where you need to hit and when.

Wave of Vitriol is such a sleeper hit, it totally deserves more play. It does SO much for me. I've had a few people just scoop in response, which is a little silly, but hey, 5c decks have expensive manabases and this is as fair as MLD gets. Otherwise, yeah it hits rocks, control elements and clutch lands, but it also triggers my Titania, Protector of Argoth and landfall critters, and instead of negatively affecting Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar's P/T boosts it quite significantly. Often it's a win-con for me too with Baru, Fist of Krosa; obviously I'm dropping forests into play, but my critters get a buff for any other forests that hit play outside of my control too.

OCPunisher · Post by **OCPunisher** » 4 years ago

Hmm, Baru works with other people's Forests...

One more card I didn't see anyone discussing here is Generous Patron. I've heard comps to a green Mulldrifter based on the assumption that a few +1/+1 counters between friends is nothing. What say you?

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

OCPunisher wrote: ↑
4 years ago
Hmm, Baru works with other people's Forests...

One more card I didn't see anyone discussing here is Generous Patron. I've heard comps to a green Mulldrifter based on the assumption that a few +1/+1 counters between friends is nothing. What say you?

Yep, it's snuck in there in between the phrase 'whenever a forest comes into play' and the lack of 'under your control'. Honestly, it can be pretty nasty. I've had it turn Collective Voyage into a supercharged Overrun fairly regularly. Which is nice, because that card does have it's downsides in terms of universailty and lands entering tapped.

Generous Patron isn't awful. I guess ultimately it's pretty insular, which is a pro and a con. It can, one time, trigger itself, but I have nothing else in my deck that will add counters other than using bouncing to recast Patron. That's not bad, but it's not something I can regularly trigger, so I'm hesitant myself. I don't think the counters will count against us in most cases, so I guess the risk/reward ratio is in our favour nonetheless. It could be worth trying out.

rogerandover · Post by **rogerandover** » 4 years ago

So, just a tiny game report, again to speak well of Nyxbloom. Played a 1v1, I started well by ramping, but I just drew into more lands and more ramp, so I went out of gas pretty quickly. My opponents board was beginning to get loaded with some pretty big guys, but I stalled a bit with Spike Weaver and a Maze of Ith, so I could tick Nissa up (mostly hitting lands). I had Nyxbloom and Kamahl in hand, and played Nyxbloom just because I felt like I had to do something. So the next turn the one after that I draw into Crop Rotation. Play Kamahl, fecth Nykthos, which makes 27 and rest of my lands adds the total up to 67, so I can pump with Kamahl 13 times, making my weaver and Nyxbloom both get +39/+39.

Also, apperently Lord Windgrace and Muldrotha, the Gravetide folds when you have a Scavenging Ooze

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

[mention]rogerandover[/mention] that's 13 activations of Kamahl, Fist of Krosa's ability without even trying too hard to make it work. Good lord.

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

So, picked up our box from the new release over the weekend. First pack my wife opens:
Wife :'Oh, that looks cool'
Me: 'What's that babe?"
Wife:

Well, crap, chances of 2 in a box are infinitesimal. I did get a few cool pieces though, including Dryad of the Ilysian Grove and new Purphoros, which I'm gonna build something cool around. Also accrued enough credit to just grab a Nyxbloom single, which ought to make it in fairly shortly. For what it's worth hers is being used in a Gishath, Sun's Avatar and frankly it's doing great things for her.

So with that in mind, couple of updates:

In

Out

Ultimately, I'm happy enough to not have Slime in here. Reclamation Sage is here and this is more costly to cast. Mirage Mirror I'm more on the fence with. Does nothing on it's own, but it can make things really, really silly - like silly enough to be in a Monty Python sketch. It does take a bit of fiddling about with though, and being absolutely honest, I don't really know where else to cut. I'd be happy to take suggestions there if anyone wants to weigh in.

WolfWhoWanders · Post by **WolfWhoWanders** » 4 years ago

I love the versatility of mirage mirror and it's potential for really interesting plays. I used to run a mono g Nissa control deck (much different than yours) and I had a game that let me copy someone's coffers with it and an urborg out... Won me the game by allowing me to cast a huge hurricane. If you keep a deck for a while mirage mirror is a "more fun" card that can make your deck more interesting to play on a game by game basis.

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

WolfWhoWanders wrote: ↑
4 years ago
I love the versatility of mirage mirror and it's potential for really interesting plays. I used to run a mono g Nissa control deck (much different than yours) and I had a game that let me copy someone's coffers with it and an urborg out... Won me the game by allowing me to cast a huge hurricane. If you keep a deck for a while mirage mirror is a "more fun" card that can make your deck more interesting to play on a game by game basis.

I don't disagree, to be honest. I'm kind of reluctant to lose it, because it's pretty cool. There's plenty of nifty interactions here, too. I just....don't know what else deserves a cut really. Perhaps Life from the Loam? It's a great card but lots less fun and it doesn't NEED to be here.

rogerandover · Post by **rogerandover** » 4 years ago

While I love Loam, I don't really miss it in the games I've played after cutting it. So it might be a fine cut. I also think you could cut some of your beaters, Multani seems like the weaker one. I switched him for Kamahl, and he's way better imo. You also have the goat, so I think you'll do fine without it. Maybe also Tornado Element or do you see many fliers? Brutalisher is versatile, but also expensive for what it does. Seems like you already have plenty of removal.
Just some suggestions, and you still need room for Nyxbloom

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

You're not wrong, I have been going back and forth about what gets cut for Nyxbloom too.

Thing is, there's a case for keeping all of the aforementioned cards. Loam seems an easy drop to get Mirror back in, so let's call that done.

Multani I really like as a beater obviously, but it's also suuuuuper fun to drop the goat with it on the field. Pumping your field for like +20/+20 and then some is hilarious, even if it's uncommon and hyper Timmy.

Tornado Elemental is a reasonable pick too I guess. Fliers are not ubiquitous in my meta but not unheard of either. The pseudo-evasion is handy in some cases, and in terms of actual removal I'm maybe a little slim. I can hold things off with fog effects but actual removal is hard in green.

Brutalizer is pretty cool in terms of modality, but the tuck effect is really handy for removing control pieces and such. Obviously not as good for commanders as it once would've been it's still handy to help clear the board in a variety of ways.

Ultimately from the three probably Multani could be spared most easily as he is just a beater, even if he is very good at it. So that's probably the pick.

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

So I finally got an LGS visit in, and picked up my Nyx boi:

In

Nyxbloom Ancient

Out

Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar

I'm not gonna lie, I am sad to see the back of Multani. He has never been under double figures for P/T, and his BFF Pathbreaker Ibex is genuinely going to miss their romps. The pump with both out is just so stomping and green, it's a beautiful thing. Still, he's the least useful outside of combat from all of the other potential beaters that were on the block. You never know, Nyxbloom might not do enough to keep his place. I doubt it, though.

In Memory of the stompiest, leafiest lad that ever there was.
Farewell, sweet leafy forest prince, and may flights of angels wing you to your rest.

Card Slinger J · Post by **Card Slinger J** » 4 years ago

Thought I'd share my own build for this EDH / Commander deck primer. Mine's a bit more group hug with Helix Pinnacle as an alternate win condition. Other than that I try to close the game with Avenger of Zendikar with either Craterhoof Behemoth pumping my Plant tokens to swing for game or with Nissa, Sage Animist's -7.

Decklist

Approximate Total Cost:

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

@Card Slinger J Seems like a cool build, almost mono green superfriends/control shell. There's a few interesting additions here I'd be interested to hear about.

How has Gravity Well worked out for you? I've considered adding it here as a pseudo-fog, but I do have a few fliers so decided against it myself.
Do you find you get enough value from your creature based pieces? I see 13 creatures, so I wonder how much value you get from Lifecrafter's Bestiary and Eldrazi Monument (also, the latter is a nonbo with Gravity Well to some degree).
How have you found Nylea, Keen-Eyed? I'm hesitant myself - I have ways to recur pieces from the yard, but not in large numbers, and the ability seems expensive just to dig one deep.
How have the Planar rocks worked out for you, and what are they digging for? They seem expensive to cast and use - but then you clearly have no issues with mana.
Also wondering - if Craterhoof is a win con for you, have you considered switching out one of your creature tutors for Tooth and Nail? In for a penny, in for a pound and all that.
Have you considered going further down the walkers route? There's probably enough to make a pretty solid mono green friends deck, especially if you can afford Doubling Season,

Thanks for sharing dude, always nice to see some love for Commander Nissa

Card Slinger J · Post by **Card Slinger J** » 4 years ago

It's like whenever I manage to draw and cast Gravity Well I'm usually up against decks that don't run many flyers though I can see how it's a bit situational at times. So far the only creature I don't get as much value from would probably be Temur Sabertooth either because the opportunity hasn't presented itself yet or I may need to run some more spot removal with Reclamation Sage. Eldrazi Monument's in here for late game when I've already got my Plant tokens out from Avenger of Zendikar for that extra evasion when I try to close out the game with Craterhoof Behemoth.

If anything Lifecrafter's Bestiary is in here for Scry as I don't see myself using the second ability as much. Nylea, Keen-Eyed I thought would be good with Seedborn Muse and Wilderness Reclamation to help dig for creatures during my opponents' turns. The Planar rocks have been working great for me whenever I'm able to untap and double my mana to help dig for combo pieces and my win cons. Tooth and Nail I feel needs to be banned due to how the tempo advantage it creates is almost on par with an Overloaded Cyclonic Rift.

I guess I could run more of a Green Planeswalker package, the only problem is that I'm unable to afford Doubling Season. So I would need to run more Proliferate support such as Planewide Celebration, Pollenbright Druid, and Plaguemaw Beast which is a tad slow but more effective than Bloom Hulk. Colorless wise there's Contagion Engine, Contagion Clasp, and Sword of Truth and Justice which could be alright I guess. The Chain Veil is another option though I don't see myself getting as much value out of it unless I have enough Planeswalkers on the battlefield.

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

Yeah I had similar thoughts about Gravity Well. It's significantly easier for me to Zenith or Calling a Hornet Queen or Tornado Elemental anyway, or if it's an alpha strike Rotation for Glacial Chasm so it's always seemed a bit superfluous.

Lifecrafter's Bestiary - I cant help but think there's better suited stuff out there. The scry is cute, but digging one deep isn't amazing. If the draw isn't critical I feel like Abundance would suit better. I was going to suggest Mirri's Guile but you mentioned money so that's out as is Sylvan Library. I just feel like Abundance will dig you further towards what you need right now, plus the replacement effect for draw comes in handy from time to time, in that it makes it significantly harder to Stroke of Genius you out of the game. Just a suggestion, if the pokedex works fine stick with it.

Temur Sabertooth is a bit of a build around card. If you're not abusing ETB triggers it becomes a lot less valuable. Not worthless as indestructible is still decent, but less of an all around utility piece. The Planar rocks I totally get btw, with your mana doubling effects you are golden for getting use from these. And with scant ways to get artifacts/enchantments/non permanent spells etc in mono green, you use what you have. And yeah I definitely get the Tooth and Nail sentiment. I don't necessarily agree at all levels of the format, I think there's far more oppressive stuff out there (craterhoof itself is top of the pile in green to my mind) but it's a fair point nonetheless. Everyone has their line in the sand and I get that.

With regards to walkers, green is pretty lucky. There's some really good value in things like Garruk, Caller of Beasts, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Nissa, Vital Force, and Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury. There's probably more but these seem the best value off the top of my head. I don't necessarily think you'd need to go for proliferate/ Doubling Season either. Firstly there's Pir, Imaginative Rascal, but secondly, most of the good walkers in mono green are blessed in that they have value in more than just their ultimates. Freyalise gives you mana dorks and a free Disenchant, Primal Hunter gives you half of Shamanic Revelation which is awesome, and most of the Nissa iterations give you some degree of recursion, ramp or land untap. There's nothing wrong with using these to advantage and not going all in on hitting ultimates immediately. In fact, I prefer this in my superfriends builds - my Vial Smasher and Kraum is built this way and does quite well. I also think this is about the least obnoxious way to play superfriends, too. Seeing someone hit ultimates immediately is a bit demoralizing.

All that being said, because they are kind of set and forget and don't require a large mana investment, there's a fair chance going down this route would be a big change in direction, in that there'd be less point in producing the obscene amounts of mana your deck probably currently does. What's the point in floating it if you don't need it right? I'm definitely not saying you should change tack, the deck looks strong. Just saying superfriends is totally possible and could even be fun.

Card Slinger J · Post by **Card Slinger J** » 4 years ago

Yeah I don't know why I forgot about Pir, Imaginative Rascal. I guess I was a bit turned off by the "your team controls" line of text when I don't even have a team in normal multiplayer EDH / Commander. Wizards of the Coast clarified this when discussing Battlebond Mechanics saying, "Any card that refers to "your team" refers to you or a teammate. If you're not playing a team game, "your team" just means "you." Teammates are players who started the game actually on your team, not just "opponent I happen to be working with right now even though they will receive a knife in their back soon." For example, in a traditional Commander game, you have no teammates."

When it comes to creature tokens in EDH / Commander I usually tend to focus only on one creature type which is why I'm trying to restrict myself with Plant tokens from Avenger of Zendikar. So If I were to run Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury I would need to cut Avenger of Zendikar with Nyxbloom Ancient replacing it as my main 7 drop while adding in Llanowar Mentor whose ability is basically Freyalise's +2 with a discard cost. I was strongly considering running Garruk, Caller of Beasts since his +1 fits well with the lack of creatures in this deck. That's why I run Oath of Druids, Nylea, Keen-Eyed, and Heartwood Storyteller to help draw/tutor into those creatures.

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

Card Slinger J wrote: ↑
4 years ago
Yeah I don't know why I forgot about Pir, Imaginative Rascal. I guess I was a bit turned off by the "your team controls" line of text when I don't even have a team in normal multiplayer EDH / Commander. Wizards of the Coast clarified this when discussing Battlebond Mechanics saying, "Any card that refers to "your team" refers to you or a teammate. If you're not playing a team game, "your team" just means "you." Teammates are players who started the game actually on your team, not just "opponent I happen to be working with right now even though they will receive a knife in their back soon." For example, in a traditional Commander game, you have no teammates."

Yeah it was a strange set. Chock full of value though. I like Pir, myself, though obviously more useful in a different setting than mine.

Card Slinger J wrote: ↑
4 years ago
When it comes to creature tokens in EDH / Commander I usually tend to focus only on one creature type which is why I'm trying to restrict myself with Plant tokens from Avenger of Zendikar. So If I were to run Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury I would need to cut Avenger of Zendikar with Nyxbloom Ancient replacing it as my main 7 drop while adding in Llanowar Mentor whose ability is basically Freyalise's +2 with a discard cost. I was strongly considering running Garruk, Caller of Beasts since his +1 fits well with the lack of creatures in this deck. That's why I run Oath of Druids, Nylea, Keen-Eyed, and Heartwood Storyteller to help draw/tutor into those creatures.

Fair enough, it does get hard to keep track of different types of tokens/counters. It's part of why I took Ghave, Guru of Spores apart. Just visually a confusing board state.
I like Caller of Beasts, but I definitely think for overall value Garruk, Primal Hunter is his best mono iteration. Just the draw available on him is nuts. The ultimate is obviously great, but that draw is sick.

Dragonlover · Post by **Dragonlover** » 4 years ago

It's not quite as controlly as yours (and doesn't have Nissa as the commander) but I wanted to throw my Molimo deck in here as my take on the general 'hold folks off then slap them for a few hundred damage in one go' mono-g concept. I tend to go for resilience in my beaters if possible, hence things like Vorapede and Pelakka Wurm.

To loop back to a conversation from earlier in the thread, I can't recommend Bind enough. At worst, it stops an ult, at best it stops a game winning combo.

A note on some card choices: I'm foiling the deck, so anything I can't get in foil isn't considered, and Molimo is the general due to nostalgia, I know the new Multani would technically be better, no need to tell me.

Decklist

Commander:

1 Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer

Creatures:

1 Acidic Slime|F12

1 Bellowing Tanglewurm

1 Brawn

1 Jugan, the Rising Star

1 Moldgraf Monstrosity

1 Nantuko Vigilante

1 Pelakka Wurm

1 Questing Beast

1 Serpentine Basilisk

1 Spore Frog

1 Steel Hellkite|PSOM

1 Terastodon|PD3

1 Ulvenwald Tracker

1 Unyaro Bees

1 Vorapede

1 Wood Elves

1 Woodfall Primus

1 Yavimaya Elder

1 Yeva, Nature's Herald

Sorceries:

1 Harmonize

1 Journey of Discovery

1 Kodama's Reach

1 Nissa's Pilgrimage|F16

1 Overrun

1 Overwhelming Stampede

1 Praetor's Counsel

1 Rampant Growth

1 Rishkar's Expertise|PAER

1 Skyshroud Claim

1 Tooth and Nail

Instants:

1 Back to Nature

1 Beast Within

1 Bind

1 Crop Rotation

1 Heroic Intervention|PAER

1 Krosan Grip|F10

1 Moment's Peace

1 Return of the Wildspeaker

1 Strength of Cedars

1 Strength of the Tajuru

1 Tangle

Enchantments:

1 Asceticism

1 Bear Umbra

1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc

1 Kenrith's Transformation

1 Lignify

1 Triumph of Ferocity

Arifacts:

1 Brittle Effigy

1 Caged Sun

1 Elixir of Immortality

1 Strata Scythe

1 Tormod's Crypt

Planeswalkers:

1 Garruk Wildspeaker|PDTP

1 Nissa, Who Shakes the World

1 Vivien, Champion of the Wilds

Lands:

1 Blighted Woodland

1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All|V12

1 Dryad Arbor

1 Gaea's Cradle|JGP

1 Hall of the Bandit Lord

1 Mosswort Bridge

1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

1 Petrified Field

1 Reliquary Tower

25 Forest

Approximate Total Cost:

Dragonlover

Card Slinger J · Post by **Card Slinger J** » 4 years ago

Now that I think about it, I have been thinking of cutting Lifecrafter's Bestiary for Emerald Medallion in my Nissa, Vastwood Seer deck. The thought of only having to cast Constant Mists for 1 green and then Buyback it to hand seems pretty good. I used to run Drownyard Temple to help get it back from sacrificing it though the mana to activate it's ability was a bit steep.

Bind is another card I may need to look into since I feel that some of my board control spells are a bit lackluster for getting rid of permanents that are indestructible. Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer feels like he would be a solid Voltron general. Maybe instead of Strata Scythe you could be running Sword of the Animist or Blackblade Reforged instead.

rogerandover · Post by **rogerandover** » 4 years ago

@Card Slinger J - If you loads of mana and want to trample people over, Ursapine might be a good card for you. It's also very political, since it can target your opponents stuff too.

How has Road of Return been working out? Versatility on cards is always a good thing, but don't think I have ever considered/needed to return Nissa to my hand.

Also, Amulet of Vigor doesn't seem worth it, or am I missing something?

Wanted to share another game-report, this time not about Nyxbloom Ancient but Collector Ouphe. Played against some eldrazi-deck, that ramped pretty hard the first couple of rounds. Had two rocks, a Burnished Hart ready to activate and some boots. So the eldrazi-commander was impending. My turn I draw Green Sun's Zenith and mulling over to grab Tireless Tracker for CA, but desided to stomp the eldrazi nonsense. I think it was the next turn I play Primal Order, which put a heavy clock on the 5c-superfriends-deck. The last player was an aikido Queen Marchesa, which relayed on Sunforger to do anything. They all stombled hard by the Ouphe and the whole game was pretty much 3vMe. On the last tutn of the 5c deck, he plays a Niv Disk, only to realize it won't help him. Queen points out that eldraze can kill the Ouphe at an opponents upkeep with his Endbringer, but I have answers in hand, and they most all fold to the power of mono green control

Dragonlover · Post by **Dragonlover** » 4 years ago

I prefer Strata Scythe because it counts my opponents forests as well, which can often get way more power than a Blackblade Reforged would.

Dragonlover

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

Dragonlover wrote: ↑
4 years ago
I prefer Strata Scythe because it counts my opponents forests as well, which can often get way more power than a Blackblade Reforged would.

Dragonlover

Have you considered Blanchwood Armor? Might be a bit vanilla but it's a huge boost.

For some reason I remembered your deck having more enchantments in it, I was going to suggest Nylea's Colossus, but I'm not sure it'd pull enough weight (also not available in foil to the best of my knowledge).

I keep bringing this card up in this thread and I feel like people are sleeping on it, but Baru, Fist of Krosa has done stupendous things for me. Granted, it's going to take some serious cars gymnastics to activate the Grandeur mechanic, but his first ability is legitimately nuts. It triggers from any forest, not just yours so depending on your meta there's a good chance he's boosting your critters literally every turn, not just once a turn cycle. And then with something like Genesis Wave he's a complete alpha strike finisher.

rogerandover · Post by **rogerandover** » 4 years ago

Well toc, not all of us plays a density of creatures that justify Baru

@Dragonlover A shame Tornado isn't foilable - would be better then your Desert Twister.

toctheyounger · Post by **toctheyounger** » 4 years ago

rogerandover wrote: ↑
4 years ago
Well toc, not all of us plays a density of creatures that justify Baru

A fair point roger, but still...

I kid

potentially could do good things for dragon though, and I assume is available in foil.

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